Freddie Gray possibly had back surgery a week before his death.

[AUUSN 823]

More from that article.

"Demanding that people put the violence and carnage being created by rioters in Baltimore in perspective is not tantamount to being an apologist for such criminality. Explaining and understanding why a situation is occurring is not the same thing as being a champion of that situation. One can empathize with the anger of the rioters over the abusive policing that has become all too common in inner cities while completely disavowing the immoral tactic of burning down stores and destroying property that has absolutely nothing to do with police violence."

[AUDub 11,149]

I'm just dropping a little reminder that riots are not just a black person phenom.

Some of us know this because we think of rioters as law breakers and thus "thugs".

The words law breaker, rioter, nor thug makes me think black. The N-word is directed as derogatory toward blacks in most all cases which is exactly why I do not use it.

exactly. my 10 year old has never heard the n- word. "thug" is said by some to be the new n-word. I strongly disagree. when it becomes racist to call out low life criminals we have a problem.

Must be nice living in y'all's little bubble, isolated from the world at large.

Richard Sherman made a fine point last year. Perhaps y'all should listen to what he had to say.

[AUDub 11,149]

http://thinkprogress.org/sports/2014/01/22/3194121/richard-sherman-thug-acceptable-version-word/

Richard Sherman on Wednesday said that the only thing that he regretted about his fiery post-game interview after the NFC Championship on Sunday was that it distracted the media and fans from the play of his teammates and the victory he’d earned.

But that wasn’t all that bothered him. So, too, did the fact that so many fans and media figures were quick to brand him a “thug.”

The only reason it bothers me is because it seems like it’s the accepted way of calling somebody the N-word nowadays.

It’s like everybody else said the N-word and then they say thug. And that’s fine. That’s where it’s kind of, you know, it kind of takes me aback. And it’s kind of disappointing because they know. What’s the definition of a thug, really?

I’ve fought that my whole life just coming from where I come from.

Just because you hear Compton, you hear Watts, you hear cities like that, you just think ‘thug,’ ‘he’s a gangster,’ ‘he’s this, that, and the other.’ Then you hear Stanford, and they’re like, ‘Aw, man, that doesn’t even make sense. That’s an oxymoron.’ You fight it for so long and to have it come back up and people start to use it again, it’s frustrating.

The day after the interview, the word “thug” was used some 625 times on television, more than it had been used on any single day in the past three years, according to a Deadspin analysis. And most of it was used with the same connotation that racist terms like the n-word would have been used once. Sherman is too loud. Too boisterous. Too…black.

Some of the people who hear this won’t be convinced. Some of them, especially the people who skipped right past “thug” and went all the way, won’t care to be convinced. To those people, nothing Sherman says or does will be enough. But good for Sherman for laying it plain, because there are plenty who should listen to his words and learn from them. And if that isn’t enough, Ta-Nehisi Coates and Greg Howard both wrote fantastic pieces on the racial elements of the backlash Sherman faced. Both are worth a read.

[alexava 6,973]

I'm just dropping a little reminder that riots are not just a black person phenom.

Some of us know this because we think of rioters as law breakers and thus "thugs".

The words law breaker, rioter, nor thug makes me think black. The N-word is directed as derogatory toward blacks in most all cases which is exactly why I do not use it.

exactly. my 10 year old has never heard the n- word. "thug" is said by some to be the new n-word. I strongly disagree. when it becomes racist to call out low life criminals we have a problem.

Must be nice living in y'all's little bubble, isolated from the world at large.

Richard Sherman made a fine point last year. Perhaps y'all should listen to what he had to say.

enlighten us.

[AUUSN 823]

I'm just dropping a little reminder that riots are not just a black person phenom.

Some of us know this because we think of rioters as law breakers and thus "thugs".

The words law breaker, rioter, nor thug makes me think black. The N-word is directed as derogatory toward blacks in most all cases which is exactly why I do not use it.

exactly. my 10 year old has never heard the n- word. "thug" is said by some to be the new n-word. I strongly disagree. when it becomes racist to call out low life criminals we have a problem.

Must be nice living in y'all's little bubble, isolated from the world at large.

Richard Sherman made a fine point last year. Perhaps y'all should listen to what he had to say.

enlighten us.

"And in Baltimore over the past few days, the term has been flung about by commenters both professional and non-, mostly as a way of delegitimizing the people who are doing the protesting and rioting. To dismiss someone as a "thug" is also to dismiss his or her claims to outrage."

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/04/thug/391682/

[alexava 6,973]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/thug

[AUDub 11,149]

I'm just dropping a little reminder that riots are not just a black person phenom.

Some of us know this because we think of rioters as law breakers and thus "thugs".

The words law breaker, rioter, nor thug makes me think black. The N-word is directed as derogatory toward blacks in most all cases which is exactly why I do not use it.

exactly. my 10 year old has never heard the n- word. "thug" is said by some to be the new n-word. I strongly disagree. when it becomes racist to call out low life criminals we have a problem.

Must be nice living in y'all's little bubble, isolated from the world at large.

Richard Sherman made a fine point last year. Perhaps y'all should listen to what he had to say.

enlighten us.

Post 153

[autigeremt 6,635]

Looting and destruction of property is a crime. Enough said.

[aubfaninga 16]

Step two, marginalize a person's life and exaggerate people's statements to make light of it. Check.

Completely unbiased of course.

Too funny. Like clockwork, the usual suspects do their best to minimize the (probable) wrongdoing of the officers.

"the usual suspects" is in full force from both sides.

This is what I have gathered from this thread alone. Feel free to add everything that I miss as I am just trying to put pieces together.

Rumors:

#1 Mr Gray had recent back surgery

#2 The second person apprehended makes a statement that Mr. Gray was "thrashing" and yelling

Assumptions:

#1 Mr. Grays rap sheet proves he was a violent person with blatant disregard for law enforcement

#2 Mr. Gray was injured while in custody of white law enforcement so something shady had to of went on

#3 Very rare cases of erratic driving by paddy wagon drivers proves foul play in this case

#4 All cops are good

#5 All cops are evil

#6 This is a racial issue

#7 This is not a racial issue

Facts:

#1 Mr. Gray ran from Law Enforcement

#2 Police apprehended Mr. Gray

#3 There were witnesses to the arrest

#4 Mr. Grays windpipe was NOT crushed when put into the paddy wagon

#5 Mr. Gray has a long record of non violent criminal activity (I know nothing about the burglary)

#6 Mr. Gray was shackled but never put into seatbelts

#7 The paddy wagon made 4 stops

#8 There was a second person placed into the paddy wagon for less than half the trip

#9 Mr. Gray asks for medical attention at some point during the ride (I believe this accurate.

#10 Mr. Gray was injured and died while in police custody

#11 Raptor is abrasive in racial matters

#12 Cole is very sensitive in racial matters

#13 BigBen will never let Raptor have a last word :f

#14 Mims44 is a very sly and funny "dude"

#15 Tigger might have another personality trying to come out of the fallout bunker

[AUDub 11,149]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/thug

We're aware of the definition.

Why don't you google it and do a little research? Might open your eyes a bit.

So you don't like Sherman. How about Sir Charles?

[aubfaninga 16]

I'm just dropping a little reminder that riots are not just a black person phenom.

Some of us know this because we think of rioters as law breakers and thus "thugs".

The words law breaker, rioter, nor thug makes me think black. The N-word is directed as derogatory toward blacks in most all cases which is exactly why I do not use it.

exactly. my 10 year old has never heard the n- word. "thug" is said by some to be the new n-word. I strongly disagree. when it becomes racist to call out low life criminals we have a problem.

Must be nice living in y'all's little bubble, isolated from the world at large.

Richard Sherman made a fine point last year. Perhaps y'all should listen to what he had to say.

I don't know what "bubble" you perceive that I live in. I was born and raised in Americus GA (Sumter County). I played football from 6 years old until my senior year of high school in the public city schools system or REC. I currently live in Columbus GA. I have worked in manufacturing plants all my adult life. Basically, I have been in the "minority" my entire life.

Does any of this make me an expert into black people or racial matters? No, because I am a white man and I have no earthly idea what black people have to live with in matters of oppression. I do know that most of the hard working men in my plant (that just happen to be black) have had 0 issues with law enforcement in at least the past 10 years. Could it possible be that they work 50 to 60 hours per week and stay above the LAW?

Back to the word "thug". Pro athletes and sports commentators are not going to sway my thoughts on any matter whatsoever. Especially not Charles Barkley. I cannot help that the music industry has embraced the word "thug". If I see my nephew or son wearing his pants around his ankles I will most likely tell him to stop acting like a "thug". The only way someone can take that as being a racial slur is if they, in their own mind, relate low riding pants to black people. OR... They think of low riding pants as a positive thing and a good picture to show society.

[AUFAN78 3,910]

http://www.merriam-w...dictionary/thug

Guido says hello.

[AUDub 11,149]

Rumors:

#1 Mr Gray had recent back surgery

Confirmed false.

#2 The second person apprehended makes a statement that Mr. Gray was "thrashing" and yelling

Unconfirmed, but I am very skeptical. Especially in light of some contradictions like this:

I'll get to the assumptions portion tomorrow.

[AUFAN78 3,910]

Step two, marginalize a person's life and exaggerate people's statements to make light of it. Check.

Completely unbiased of course.

Too funny. Like clockwork, the usual suspects do their best to minimize the (probable) wrongdoing of the officers.

"the usual suspects" is in full force from both sides.

This is what I have gathered from this thread alone. Feel free to add everything that I miss as I am just trying to put pieces together.

Rumors:

#1 Mr Gray had recent back surgery

#2 The second person apprehended makes a statement that Mr. Gray was "thrashing" and yelling

Assumptions:

#1 Mr. Grays rap sheet proves he was a violent person with blatant disregard for law enforcement

#2 Mr. Gray was injured while in custody of white law enforcement so something shady had to of went on

#3 Very rare cases of erratic driving by paddy wagon drivers proves foul play in this case

#4 All cops are good

#5 All cops are evil

#6 This is a racial issue

#7 This is not a racial issue

Facts:

#1 Mr. Gray ran from Law Enforcement

#2 Police apprehended Mr. Gray

#3 There were witnesses to the arrest

#4 Mr. Grays windpipe was NOT crushed when put into the paddy wagon

#5 Mr. Gray has a long record of non violent criminal activity (I know nothing about the burglary)

#6 Mr. Gray was shackled but never put into seatbelts

#7 The paddy wagon made 4 stops

#8 There was a second person placed into the paddy wagon for less than half the trip

#9 Mr. Gray asks for medical attention at some point during the ride (I believe this accurate.

#10 Mr. Gray was injured and died while in police custody

#11 Raptor is abrasive in racial matters

#12 Cole is very sensitive in racial matters

#13 BigBen will never let Raptor have a last word :f

#14 Mims44 is a very sly and funny "dude"

#15 Tigger might have another personality trying to come out of the fallout bunker

[AUDub 11,149]

I don't know what "bubble" you perceive that I live in. I was born and raised in Americus GA (Sumter County). I played football from 6 years old until my senior year of high school in the public city schools system or REC. I currently live in Columbus GA. I have worked in manufacturing plants all my adult life. Basically, I have been in the "minority" my entire life.

Does any of this make me an expert into black people or racial matters? No, because I am a white man and I have no earthly idea what black people have to live with in matters of oppression. I do know that most of the hard working men in my plant (that just happen to be black) have had 0 issues with law enforcement in at least the past 10 years. Could it possible be that they work 50 to 60 hours per week and stay above the LAW?

Good for you. alexava will tell a similar story. I spent the first few years of my life in the East Lake community in Birmingham. Doesn't mean a dang thing regarding our perception of the world at large. Y'all are insulated.

Like it or not, the word has taken on a racist connotation when referring to young black men.

Back to the word "thug". Pro athletes and sports commentators are not going to sway my thoughts on any matter whatsoever. Especially not Charles Barkley.

There are many other examples and sources I'm sure you will find more palatable. USN's article from the Atlantic is a good start.

Google is your friend.

I cannot help that the music industry has embraced the word "thug". If I see my nephew or son wearing his pants around his ankles I will most likely tell him to stop acting like a "thug". The only way someone can take that as being a racial slur is if they, in their own mind, relate low riding pants to black people. OR... They think of low riding pants as a positive thing and a good picture to show society.

Did you bother to read the Think Progress article I posted? Did you not follow the link the the Deadspin study indicating its use had spiked after Sherman's tirade?

Of course low riding pants is often associated with black people. Aren't you aware of where sagging originated? How it was popularized? While it's not exclusively a black phenomenon, it is intrinsically tied to black culture.

I assume the music in your example is rap? If that's the case, then the way you're using it almost certainly could be construed as racist. Substitute the word "thug" with the n-word. Rappers often use the n-word, too. Does that make you using it acceptable? What if you had told your kid or nephew to pull up his pants and stop acting like a ni***r?

[AUDub 11,149]

This is the thing about language, guys. If people start using a word as a racial slur, it becomes a racial slur irrespective of its previous meanings or connotations.

Thug has been migrating in the direction of the black brute stereotype for several years now. Having a perfectly good word ruined by bigots sucks, but there are enough people who use thug in a racially-loaded manner that the newfound connotations can't be ignored.

[aubfaninga 16]

What if you had told your kid or nephew to pull up his pants and stop acting like a ni***r?

If I told my child that I would be teaching my child to use racist words. PERIOD!!!

I do not care where the pants hanging low started nor do I care. My son will not show his underwear. My son will not wear racially sensitive wording or pictures on his clothes. My son will not wear anything that has offensive wording or pictures of any nature. My son will not walk around with his shirt off unless swimming. My son will speak with respect to all adults and not use foul language. Once he is of age I will not dictate what language he uses with his peers and he will have freedom to decide. Just don't curse around me or other adults. I never had to discuss racial language with my oldest son because it is non existent in my environment and I don't perceive it being discussed with my younger son. He is free to express himself in any other way his generation does for the most part after that. He can wear his hat how he feels. He can wear skinny jeans (which make me cringe). He can wear oversized jeans as long as they fit at the waist.

My oldest son raps so trying to bring up my use of "music industry" is a grasp in the dark to me. That is the language I picked up from him. My son was signed and made money in the "music industry" as a rapper that just happened to be white. He has since stopped rapping but still writes for other artists. I will not post his music here because of his use of foul language.

[aubfaninga 16]

This is the thing about language, guys. If people start using a word as a racial slur, it becomes a racial slur irrespective of its previous meanings or connotations.

Thug has been migrating in the direction of the black brute stereotype for several years now. Having a perfectly good word ruined by bigots sucks, but there are enough people who use thug in a racially-loaded manner that the newfound connotations can't be ignored.

I understand but my use of the word "thug" is meant to be negative for a reason. Now I have to go find another word to show my displeasure and I am lazy.

I guess I could just bring "ruffian" out from retirement. I may have to explain what it is meant to imply but what the hey. Don't see many people embracing that word anytime soon.

"Pull your pants up because you look like a RUFFIAN"

[aubfaninga 16]

A little more fog just adding to this...

The passenger in the paddy wagon. If his testimony is true then we have a window from the time he was first put into the van up until Donate Allen was picked up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TE17x1EsAI

Someone mentions GPS earlier. If the driver were to slam on the breaks and come to an abrupt stop, surely GPS would not register that would it???

[AUDub 11,149]

This is the thing about language, guys. If people start using a word as a racial slur, it becomes a racial slur irrespective of its previous meanings or connotations.

Thug has been migrating in the direction of the black brute stereotype for several years now. Having a perfectly good word ruined by bigots sucks, but there are enough people who use thug in a racially-loaded manner that the newfound connotations can't be ignored.

I understand but my use of the word "thug" is meant to be negative for a reason. Now I have to go find another word to show my displeasure and I am lazy.

I guess I could just bring "ruffian" out from retirement. I may have to explain what it is meant to imply but what the hey. Don't see many people embracing that word anytime soon.

"Pull your pants up because you look like a RUFFIAN"

yeah, but if the word is taking on a new meaning, it will become negative for the wrong reason. That's my point.

[AUDub 11,149]

A little more fog just adding to this...

The passenger in the paddy wagon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TE17x1EsAI

DailyKos has been all over it since earlier today. They castigated WaPo for lending it credence.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/04/30/1381400/-A-complete-takedown-of-the-lies-spread-by-the-Baltimore-Police-Washington-Post-on-Freddie-Gray

[AUDub 11,149]

If I told my child that I would be teaching my child to use racist words. PERIOD!!!

I wasn't suggesting you do or would. I would certainly hope not. Merely a hypothetical.

I do not care where the pants hanging low started nor do I care. My son will not show his underwear. My son will not wear racially sensitive wording or pictures on his clothes. My son will not wear anything that has offensive wording or pictures of any nature. My son will not walk around with his shirt off unless swimming. My son will speak with respect to all adults and not use foul language. Once he is of age I will not dictate what language he uses with his peers and he will have freedom to decide. Just don't curse around me or other adults. I never had to discuss racial language with my oldest son because it is non existent in my environment and I don't perceive it being discussed with my younger son. He is free to express himself in any other way his generation does for the most part after that. He can wear his hat how he feels. He can wear skinny jeans (which make me cringe). He can wear oversized jeans as long as they fit at the waist.

Skinny pants? On boys? Why is that a thing!?

My oldest son raps so trying to bring up my use of "music industry" is a grasp in the dark to me. That is the language I picked up from him. My son was signed and made money in the "music industry" as a rapper that just happened to be white. He has since stopped rapping but still writes for other artists. I will not post his music here because of his use of foul language.

I'm used to foul language. I'm white as the new fallen snow, but I have a copy of Straight Outta Compton and many other Gangsta rap albums on my MP3 player.

Interesting on the music thing. My older bro got big locally here a decade or so ago and sniffed a hit that got a lot of airplay on the 107.7 X alt-rock station here in the 'ham. Band was called Adelayda.

[AUDub 11,149]

And I prefer "hooligan" over ruffian.

Bedtime.

[aubfaninga 16]

If I told my child that I would be teaching my child to use racist words. PERIOD!!!

I wasn't suggesting you do or would. I would certainly hope not. Merely a hypothetical.

I do not care where the pants hanging low started nor do I care. My son will not show his underwear. My son will not wear racially sensitive wording or pictures on his clothes. My son will not wear anything that has offensive wording or pictures of any nature. My son will not walk around with his shirt off unless swimming. My son will speak with respect to all adults and not use foul language. Once he is of age I will not dictate what language he uses with his peers and he will have freedom to decide. Just don't curse around me or other adults. I never had to discuss racial language with my oldest son because it is non existent in my environment and I don't perceive it being discussed with my younger son. He is free to express himself in any other way his generation does for the most part after that. He can wear his hat how he feels. He can wear skinny jeans (which make me cringe). He can wear oversized jeans as long as they fit at the waist.

Skinny pants? On boys? Why is that a thing!?

My oldest son raps so trying to bring up my use of "music industry" is a grasp in the dark to me. That is the language I picked up from him. My son was signed and made money in the "music industry" as a rapper that just happened to be white. He has since stopped rapping but still writes for other artists. I will not post his music here because of his use of foul language.

I'm used to foul language. I'm white as the new fallen snow, but I have a copy of Straight Outta Compton and many other Gangsta rap albums on my MP3 player.

Interesting on the music thing. My older bro got big locally here a decade or so ago and sniffed a hit that got a lot of airplay on the 107.7 X alt-rock station here in the 'ham. Band was called Adelayda.

Guilty as charged. NWA and 2 Live Crew seemed like the most liberating and awesome thing as a pre teen. Then I met a species called "girl". Not my proudest moments but definitely not ashamed of the experience of being given my own room to grow and experiment with making choices for myself. The horror of thinking that there is possibly still video evidence of my best friend and I doing a concert using songs by Newcleus.

Looked up Adelayda. Brought back memories of blaring "LIVE" in my moms Dodge Intrepid with my rigged up house speaker in the trunk.

I quickly found three songs and "Hung Up" is the one that fits into my range of sound that I like the best.

[AURaptor 1,125]

Burned couches are exactly like torched cvs stores..