Freddie Gray possibly had back surgery a week before his death.

[MDM4AU 332]

Let's talk about this. I have called people of probably every race and nationality "thug" before. I know a white guy who shot his dad in the head this past Sunday because he wouldn't let him use the car. I called him a thug. But if I call a black person a thug for the same thing or cutting fire hoses while the FD tries to put out a fire, etc., it's racist?

(I'm honestly wanting to have an open discussion about this.)

Not necessarily. The context in which it's used is important. Any individual can be described as a thug with no racist overtones.

Understood. We're on the same page.

[alexava 6,973]

I have said repeatedly i don't know how he was injured. Certainly don't know what happened in the van. I have a serious problem with charging the arresting officers. Their job is to regulate crime. He is a criminal. He gave cause for suspicion, he attempted to elude. .

When someone in your custody ends up in the shape he was, you better believe you're going to get charged with something. And he was arrested for possession of a "switchblade" which turned out to be untrue. Sorry, but that doesn't wash.

he ran for some reason. He had to be detained. He could have been released without charges later but you run you going downtown.

Why does he have to be chased or detained at all? If he hadn't done anything; and there was no probably cause, what were they doing chasing him? I don't get that running is reason to "ruff and cuff" someone.

I'm certainly not a lawyer but i can understand them detaining him after he ran. I mean what if he would have shot/killed someone..then the officers would get blamed...why didn't you they check him out when he ran from them. That's very suspicious...why run if you have not done anything wrong. HOWEVER, where the officers messed up is when they detained and searched him and saw that he didn't have any weapons or anything else illegal on him...they should've let him go on his way after finding nothing. According to the states attorney's report the knife was legal so they had no reason to take him in.

agree. Hypothetically you have a guy bolt. Catch him, see his arrest record and figure he ran to dump evidence so you charge for the knife just to inconveniece him for a few hours question him about why he ran then you find out the knife is legal and release him with no charges. Happens all the time. Just don't kill him.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

I have said repeatedly i don't know how he was injured. Certainly don't know what happened in the van. I have a serious problem with charging the arresting officers. Their job is to regulate crime. He is a criminal. He gave cause for suspicion, he attempted to elude. .

When someone in your custody ends up in the shape he was, you better believe you're going to get charged with something. And he was arrested for possession of a "switchblade" which turned out to be untrue. Sorry, but that doesn't wash.

he ran for some reason. He had to be detained. He could have been released without charges later but you run you going downtown.

Why does he have to be chased or detained at all? If he hadn't done anything; and there was no probably cause, what were they doing chasing him? I don't get that running is reason to "ruff and cuff" someone.

I'm certainly not a lawyer but i can understand them detaining him after he ran. I mean what if he would have shot/killed someone..then the officers would get blamed...why didn't you they check him out when he ran from them. That's very suspicious...why run if you have not done anything wrong. HOWEVER, where the officers messed up is when they detained and searched him and saw that he didn't have any weapons or anything else illegal on him...they should've let him go on his way after finding nothing. According to the states attorney's report the knife was legal so they had no reason to take him in.

agree. Hypothetically you have a guy bolt. Catch him, see his arrest record and figure he ran to dump evidence so you charge for the knife just to inconveniece him for a few hours question him about why he ran then you find out the knife is legal and release him with no charges. Happens all the time. Just don't kill him.

And when you make a false charge, you get in trouble for it - when you ended up severely injuring him on the way to the station.

Had they not roughed him up and killed him, they might have gotten away with that, even though it's illegal, because who's going to listen to Freddie Gray over a police officer?

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

I have said repeatedly i don't know how he was injured. Certainly don't know what happened in the van. I have a serious problem with charging the arresting officers. Their job is to regulate crime. He is a criminal. He gave cause for suspicion, he attempted to elude. .

When someone in your custody ends up in the shape he was, you better believe you're going to get charged with something. And he was arrested for possession of a "switchblade" which turned out to be untrue. Sorry, but that doesn't wash.

he ran for some reason. He had to be detained. He could have been released without charges later but you run you going downtown.

Why does he have to be chased or detained at all? If he hadn't done anything; and there was no probably cause, what were they doing chasing him? I don't get that running is reason to "ruff and cuff" someone.

I'm certainly not a lawyer but i can understand them detaining him after he ran. I mean what if he would have shot/killed someone..then the officers would get blamed...why didn't you they check him out when he ran from them. That's very suspicious...why run if you have not done anything wrong. HOWEVER, where the officers messed up is when they detained and searched him and saw that he didn't have any weapons or anything else illegal on him...they should've let him go on his way after finding nothing. According to the states attorney's report the knife was legal so they had no reason to take him in.

agree. Hypothetically you have a guy bolt. Catch him, see his arrest record and figure he ran to dump evidence so you charge for the knife just to inconveniece him for a few hours question him about why he ran then you find out the knife is legal and release him with no charges. Happens all the time. Just don't kill him.

And when you make a false charge, you get in trouble for it - when you ended up severely injuring him on the way to the station.

Had they not roughed him up and killed him, they might have gotten away with that, even though it's illegal, because who's going to listen to Freddie Gray over a police officer?

+1

[homersapien 11,393]

The charges:

Officer Garrett E. Miller

1) Assault/second degree (10 yrs.)

2) Assault/second degree (10 yrs,)

3) Misconduct in office (8th Amendment*)

4) Misconduct in office (8th Amendment* )

5) False imprisonment (8th Amendment* )

Sgt. Alicia D. White

1) Manslaughter (involuntary) (10 yrs.)

2) Assault/second degree (10 yrs.)

3) Misconduct in office (8th Amendment*)

Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr.

1) Second degree depraved heart murder (30 yrs.)

2) Manslaughter (involuntary) (10 yrs.)

3) Assault/second degree (10 yrs.)

4) Manslaughter by vehicle (gross negligence) (10 yrs.)

5) Manslaughter by vehicle (criminal negligence) (3 yrs.)

6) Misconduct in office (8th Amendment* )

Officer William G. Porter

1) Manslaughter (involuntary) (10 yrs.)

2) Assault/second degree (10 yrs.)

3) Misconduct in office (8th Amendment*)

Lt. Brian W. Rice

1) Manslaughter (involuntary) (10 yrs.)

2) Assault/second degree (10 yrs.)

3) Assault/second degree (10 yrs.)

4) Misconduct in office (8th Amendment*)

5) Misconduct in office (8th Amendment*)

6) False imprisonment (8th Amendment*)

Officer Edward M. Nero

1) Assault/second degree (10 yrs.)

2) Assault/second degree (10 yrs.)

3) Misconduct in office (8th Amendment*)

4) Misconduct in office (8th Amendment* )

5) False imprisonment (8th Amendment*)

Don't know what "Second degree depraved heart murder "means exactly, but those charges certainly don't indicate "overreach" by the state.

[AUDub 11,158]

Don't know what "Second degree depraved heart murder "means exactly, but those charges certainly don't indicate "overreach" by the state.

Depraved indifference.

[homersapien 11,393]

We could be talking about peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and eventually, someone would make a snide reference to Obama. Uncanny.

To repeat an old joke from earlier:

CNN: Obama appeals to Jif fans.

FOX: Obama declares war on Peter Pan and Skippy.

MSNBC: Obama enjoys the finest peanut butter the market can offer. All who disagree are racist.

Al Jazeera: 18 killed in drone strike in rural Pakistan

Really.

It's telling that a news outsource named "Al Jazeera" can claim more respect than the U.S. press (ex PBS of course).

[homersapien 11,393]

I have said repeatedly i don't know how he was injured. Certainly don't know what happened in the van. I have a serious problem with charging the arresting officers. Their job is to regulate crime. He is a criminal. He gave cause for suspicion, he attempted to elude. .

When someone in your custody ends up in the shape he was, you better believe you're going to get charged with something. And he was arrested for possession of a "switchblade" which turned out to be untrue. Sorry, but that doesn't wash.

he ran for some reason. He had to be detained. He could have been released without charges later but you run you going downtown.

Well considering the history of people ending up injured after an encounter with the BPD, it's not at all clear you are safer in their custody than you are trying to get away. Their history isn't the greatest in the world.

he should know.

If they run then maybe there is room for doubt up to the point when you have them in custody. Once a suspect is in custody then anything that happens to him is on the police department and the officer or officers involved to be specific. You place them in the back of the car or van in this case and proceed to take them to the station. You've got them subdued and in handcuffs. He can't do anything else that would justify any kind of mistreatment.

We agree Tigger!

[homersapien 11,393]

If I told my child that I would be teaching my child to use racist words. PERIOD!!!

I wasn't suggesting you do or would. I would certainly hope not. Merely a hypothetical.

I do not care where the pants hanging low started nor do I care. My son will not show his underwear. My son will not wear racially sensitive wording or pictures on his clothes. My son will not wear anything that has offensive wording or pictures of any nature. My son will not walk around with his shirt off unless swimming. My son will speak with respect to all adults and not use foul language. Once he is of age I will not dictate what language he uses with his peers and he will have freedom to decide. Just don't curse around me or other adults. I never had to discuss racial language with my oldest son because it is non existent in my environment and I don't perceive it being discussed with my younger son. He is free to express himself in any other way his generation does for the most part after that. He can wear his hat how he feels. He can wear skinny jeans (which make me cringe). He can wear oversized jeans as long as they fit at the waist.

Skinny pants? On boys? Why is that a thing!?

My oldest son raps so trying to bring up my use of "music industry" is a grasp in the dark to me. That is the language I picked up from him. My son was signed and made money in the "music industry" as a rapper that just happened to be white. He has since stopped rapping but still writes for other artists. I will not post his music here because of his use of foul language.

I'm used to foul language. I'm white as the new fallen snow, but I have a copy of Straight Outta Compton and many other Gangsta rap albums on my MP3 player.

Interesting on the music thing. My older bro got big locally here a decade or so ago and sniffed a hit that got a lot of airplay on the 107.7 X alt-rock station here in the 'ham. Band was called Adelayda.

Guilty as charged. NWA and 2 Live Crew seemed like the most liberating and awesome thing as a pre teen. Then I met a species called "girl". Not my proudest moments but definitely not ashamed of the experience of being given my own room to grow and experiment with making choices for myself. The horror of thinking that there is possibly still video evidence of my best friend and I doing a concert using songs by Newcleus.

Looked up Adelayda. Brought back memories of blaring "LIVE" in my moms Dodge Intrepid with my rigged up house speaker in the trunk.

I quickly found three songs and "Hung Up" is the one that fits into my range of sound that I like the best.

That was a great post Aubfig! My mouth only now closed. :o/>

I don't really get the rap thing, in fact, I pretty much have Duane Allman's take - Rap is Crap. (Although I admit, I have heard some that I liked. I am totally unfamiliar with the genre.'

You guys are really interesting though.

The three of us sharing a few drinks... that would be interesting.

An agnostic, Catholic, and a Messianic believer. Just don't team up on me concerning creation and evolution.

I try to avoid the subject of religion in face to face discussions. Especially if everyone's been drinking.

[homersapien 11,393]

Don't know what "Second degree depraved heart murder "means exactly, but those charges certainly don't indicate "overreach" by the state.

Depraved indifference.

Check. You'd think they'd call it that.

[AUDub 11,158]

Looked up Adelayda. Brought back memories of blaring "LIVE" in my moms Dodge Intrepid with my rigged up house speaker in the trunk.

I quickly found three songs and "Hung Up" is the one that fits into my range of sound that I like the best.

Yeah, that's my bro on lead guitar. The local hit was called Not Tonight.

LIVE. That brings back memories.

[AUDub 11,158]

Check. You'd think they'd call it that.

Yeah. Doesn't seem to be rare to be called Depraved-Heart, though.

[homersapien 11,393]

Check. You'd think they'd call it that.

Yeah. Doesn't seem to be rare to be called Depraved-Heart, though.

Wow. Wikipedia referenced this case.

[AUDub 11,158]

Check. You'd think they'd call it that.

Yeah. Doesn't seem to be rare to be called Depraved-Heart, though.

Wow. Wikipedia referenced this case.

Not properly sourced yet, though. Expect it will be flagged shortly.

[japantiger 4,051]

I have said repeatedly i don't know how he was injured. Certainly don't know what happened in the van. I have a serious problem with charging the arresting officers. Their job is to regulate crime. He is a criminal. He gave cause for suspicion, he attempted to elude. .

When someone in your custody ends up in the shape he was, you better believe you're going to get charged with something. And he was arrested for possession of a "switchblade" which turned out to be untrue. Sorry, but that doesn't wash.

he ran for some reason. He had to be detained. He could have been released without charges later but you run you going downtown.

Why does he have to be chased or detained at all? If he hadn't done anything; and there was no probably cause, what were they doing chasing him? I don't get that running is reason to "ruff and cuff" someone.

I'm certainly not a lawyer but i can understand them detaining him after he ran. I mean what if he would have shot/killed someone..then the officers would get blamed...why didn't you they check him out when he ran from them. That's very suspicious...why run if you have not done anything wrong. HOWEVER, where the officers messed up is when they detained and searched him and saw that he didn't have any weapons or anything else illegal on him...they should've let him go on his way after finding nothing. According to the states attorney's report the knife was legal so they had no reason to take him in.

agree. Hypothetically you have a guy bolt. Catch him, see his arrest record and figure he ran to dump evidence so you charge for the knife just to inconveniece him for a few hours question him about why he ran then you find out the knife is legal and release him with no charges. Happens all the time. Just don't kill him.

And when you make a false charge, you get in trouble for it - when you ended up severely injuring him on the way to the station.

Had they not roughed him up and killed him, they might have gotten away with that, even though it's illegal, because who's going to listen to Freddie Gray over a police officer?

+1

No probable cause, no outstanding warrants, no witnesses calling him out for something. Running is not a crime. These guys went too far. the circumstances of his death are almost inconsequential at this point. He should never have been ruffed and cuffed.

[GTNupe11 2,034]

Ok so we can't call them thugs because that's racist. What can we call them? choirboys perhaps. poor misguided unfortunate youths perhaps. The left will always take anything and call it racist to keep you from criticizing criminals, unless they're republicans.

Some options:

Rioters

Protesters

Looters

Criminals

Demonstrators

Just depends on what the individual is doing.

I'll stick with thug. Screw the left and their PC BS

Did someone black hurt your feelings growing up? Just curious..

[AUUSN 823]

Like I've said, when you think of the people you're supposed to be protecting as animals, you'll treat them as such. That includes tossing them cuffed in the back of an open bay van unrestrained. Would you do that to your child? You don't need a freaking departmental policy or law to tell you how to treat humans.

[AURaptor 1,125]

Like I've said, when you think of the people you're supposed to be protecting as animals, you'll treat them as such. That includes tossing them cuffed in the back of an open bay van unrestrained. Would you do that to your child? You don't need a freaking departmental policy or law to tell you how to treat humans.

And what if many do act like animals ? What then? Of course you'd not do that to your child, because your child would not do the things some of these criminals do, plus they'd be far easier to handle.

And here's the flip side... if these cops routinely handle thuggish, violent individuals, but then happen across a average citizen, the claims of rough treatment by a person who ISN'T struggling will likely still fall on deaf ears. Yeah yeah, they've heard it all before. Cops become callous to the legitimate claims of those in custody, because of all the actual dirt bags they've dealt with in the past.

So, how does a cop tell the difference ? Treat EVERYONE as a delicate flower ?

It's not that simple.

[AURaptor 1,125]

Did someone black hurt your feelings growing up? Just curious..

Can't imagine that would have anything to do w/ it.

Thuggee

[AUUSN 823]

Like I've said, when you think of the people you're supposed to be protecting as animals, you'll treat them as such. That includes tossing them cuffed in the back of an open bay van unrestrained. Would you do that to your child? You don't need a freaking departmental policy or law to tell you how to treat humans.

And what if many do act like animals ? What then? Of course you'd not do that to your child, because your child would not do the things some of these criminals do, plus they'd be far easier to handle.

And here's the flip side... if these cops routinely handle thuggish, violent individuals, but then happen across a average citizen, the claims of rough treatment by a person who ISN'T struggling will likely still fall on deaf ears. Yeah yeah, they've heard it all before. Cops become callous to the legitimate claims of those in custody, because of all the actual dirt bags they've dealt with in the past.

So, how does a cop tell the difference ? Treat EVERYONE as a delicate flower ?

It's not that simple.

You ever tried to put a two year old in a car seat? You missed my point by a mile.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

I have said repeatedly i don't know how he was injured. Certainly don't know what happened in the van. I have a serious problem with charging the arresting officers. Their job is to regulate crime. He is a criminal. He gave cause for suspicion, he attempted to elude. .

When someone in your custody ends up in the shape he was, you better believe you're going to get charged with something. And he was arrested for possession of a "switchblade" which turned out to be untrue. Sorry, but that doesn't wash.

he ran for some reason. He had to be detained. He could have been released without charges later but you run you going downtown.

Why does he have to be chased or detained at all? If he hadn't done anything; and there was no probably cause, what were they doing chasing him? I don't get that running is reason to "ruff and cuff" someone.

I'm certainly not a lawyer but i can understand them detaining him after he ran. I mean what if he would have shot/killed someone..then the officers would get blamed...why didn't you they check him out when he ran from them. That's very suspicious...why run if you have not done anything wrong. HOWEVER, where the officers messed up is when they detained and searched him and saw that he didn't have any weapons or anything else illegal on him...they should've let him go on his way after finding nothing. According to the states attorney's report the knife was legal so they had no reason to take him in.

agree. Hypothetically you have a guy bolt. Catch him, see his arrest record and figure he ran to dump evidence so you charge for the knife just to inconveniece him for a few hours question him about why he ran then you find out the knife is legal and release him with no charges. Happens all the time. Just don't kill him.

And when you make a false charge, you get in trouble for it - when you ended up severely injuring him on the way to the station.

Had they not roughed him up and killed him, they might have gotten away with that, even though it's illegal, because who's going to listen to Freddie Gray over a police officer?

+1

No probable cause, no outstanding warrants, no witnesses calling him out for something. Running is not a crime. These guys went too far. the circumstances of his death are almost inconsequential at this point. He should never have been ruffed and cuffed.

Good point...certainly agree japan. No cause for what they did.

[AUUSN 823]

Oh and Papture, as a member of society, thank you for not becoming a cop.

[AUUSN 823]

Oh yeah, what if someone calls my mama a whore?

[AURaptor 1,125]

You ever tried to put a two year old in a car seat? You missed my point by a mile.

" You people are so petty... and tiny. "

[homersapien 11,393]

Like I've said, when you think of the people you're supposed to be protecting as animals, you'll treat them as such. That includes tossing them cuffed in the back of an open bay van unrestrained. Would you do that to your child? You don't need a freaking departmental policy or law to tell you how to treat humans.

Succinctly stated.