Freddie Gray possibly had back surgery a week before his death.

[autigeremt 6,635]

Number 1. The police failed to use proper technique to apprehend Mr. Grey. Multiple options exist that do not require brute force.

Number 2. Lazy police tactics and a lack of self control led to the mans death.

Number 3. No matter what the findings, the results will not set well with many....depending on which side it falls.

[cole256 17,084]

It's not about the broken neck, severed spine, or crushed wind pipe. It's about how it happened.

No it's about both. Of course they are going to say he was violent. Or maybe they will say they tackled him while he was running....You still will have to think about how did ALL the injuries happen?

[AUDub 11,149]

It's not about the broken neck, severed spine, or crushed wind pipe.

I suppose, if necks could break on their own and windpipes could crush themselves. Lordy Lou.

[AUDub 11,149]

I don't understand your question, and it's really not related as far as what transpired up to getting shot can be questioned. But getting shot can't. I'm asking what scenario, any would be ok for sustaining both injuries. [/b]But yeah you're right even waiting for the facts I guess they could say they thought they were pulling their pepper spray out and this board will say no harm no foul.[/b]

They had to go off reading in the police van in an effort to get to the station more efficiently. That they didn't buckle him up and shackled all of his limbs together was an unfortunate, but forgivable oversight.

/sarc

[Browning4AU 405]

It's not about the broken neck, severed spine, or crushed wind pipe.

I suppose, if necks could break on their own and windpipes could crush themselves. Lordy Lou.

That would imply that Gray was just standing there while cops tore him apart.

[autigeremt 6,635]

It's not about the broken neck, severed spine, or crushed wind pipe. It's about how it happened.

No it's about both. Of course they are going to say he was violent. Or maybe they will say they tackled him while he was running....You still will have to think about how did ALL the injuries happen?

In other words, it doesn't matter "if" the facts were to show it wasn't the polices fault or not. I've stated my opinion on this but what if the investigation proved that Mr. Grey put himself in harms way with his actions? Would that matter to those who agree with us? Playing devils advocate here.......cause and effect.

[AUDub 11,149]

It's not about the broken neck, severed spine, or crushed wind pipe.

I suppose, if necks could break on their own and windpipes could crush themselves. Lordy Lou. :headscratch:/>

That would imply that Gray was just standing there while cops tore him apart.

No, it doesn't. How on earth did you divine that from my post?

My money is on nickel ride. All four limbs shackled with no seatbelt and injuries consistent with just such a ride? Occam's razor.

[Browning4AU 405]

So what is it that you want out of the whole thing BB? Do you just want someone held accountable or is there a greater plan in mind?

[Browning4AU 405]

It's not about the broken neck, severed spine, or crushed wind pipe.

I suppose, if necks could break on their own and windpipes could crush themselves. Lordy Lou. :headscratch:/>

That would imply that Gray was just standing there while cops tore him apart.

No, it doesn't. How on earth did you divine that from my post?

My money is on nickel ride. All four limbs shackled with no seatbelt and injuries consistent with just such a ride? Occam's razor.

If that's the case then go after the cops. I've not disagreed with you there. But you insinuated the cops injured Gray without any sort of provocation. How do you know that's any more or less true than maybe Gray himself attacked the cops?

Either way, I'm out of here. For good. As I've said before, people have their minds made up based on their own opinions and that's ok. Criticize if you will, but if you have no viable solutions to help rectify these problems, there is no use bitching about it. Also, complaining about police training ( or really any other profession's level of training) without being in that profession, is pretty useless.

[AUDub 11,149]

So what is it that you want out of the whole thing BB? Do you just want someone held accountable or is there a greater plan in mind?

Fair question. I'll go into more detail in the morning.

I do believe there is a major issue with policing in this country. Lack of accountability is a big part of that. That's not to say all police are bad, because they're not. My best friend is a member of the Birmingham PD, and like the vast majority of them, he's a hardworking, friendly and fair guy both on and off the job. But there are major systemic issues that must be addressed.

Back tomorrow.

[autigeremt 6,635]

So what is it that you want out of the whole thing BB? Do you just want someone held accountable or is there a greater plan in mind?

Fair question. I'll go into more detail in the morning.

I do believe there is a major issue with policing in this country. Lack of accountability is a big part of that. That's not to say all police are bad, because they're not. My best friend is a member of the Birmingham PD, and like the vast majority of them, he's a hardworking, friendly and fair guy both on and off the job. But there are major systemic issues that must be addressed.

Back tomorrow.

Agreed. Been there, done that.

[AUDub 11,149]

If that's the case then go after the cops. I've not disagreed with you there. But you insinuated the cops injured Gray without any sort of provocation.

Fleeing or otherwise resisting is often provocation enough.

How do you know that's any more or less true than maybe Gray himself attacked the cops?

They have video of the officers placing him in the wagon and standing under his own power. Whatever happened likely happened between him getting in the van and the station.

[cole256 17,084]

It's not about the broken neck, severed spine, or crushed wind pipe. It's about how it happened.

No it's about both. Of course they are going to say he was violent. Or maybe they will say they tackled him while he was running....You still will have to think about how did ALL the injuries happen?

In other words, it doesn't matter "if" the facts were to show it wasn't the polices fault or not. I've stated my opinion on this but what if the investigation proved that Mr. Grey put himself in harms way with his actions? Would that matter to those who agree with us? Playing devils advocate here.......cause and effect.

If there is evidence I'll believe evidence. Emphasis on evidence. I'll tell you this though a policeman saying Gray attacked them won't get it though

[JoeBags7277 734]

So what is it that you want out of the whole thing BB? Do you just want someone held accountable or is there a greater plan in mind?

Here are some solutions I posted on another threwad I believe would be helpful.

Demilitarizing the police- both in mindset and gear- is a must. AUUSN's thoughts on applying adapted counterinsurgency techniques has a role to play as well. I would either drastically limit or do away with entirely the concept of qualified immunity- which provides blanket protection from criminal prosecution for actions taken under color of law. True civilian oversight, a smartphone in the hand of every individual forced to interact with law enforcement, along with the confidence and knowledge that they have every right to use it, truly independent investigations of all shootings, and a culling of the sociopathic personalities that are too common in law enforcement. These are just some solutions. Ultimately, I don't think an entity that enjoys a monopoly on the use of legitimate force can or will put the necessary steps in action, which means the police need to be privatized. That could be done more quickly in rural and suburban areas, but I'm not yet convinced it couldn't be done nationwide. Some (conservatives, ironically) say the police are too important to be left to the private sector. If you ask me, its far too important to be left to anything else.

[cooltigger21 0]

I also can see how things might look. Six and a half years ago we elected the first black man as president. I imagine they thought finally they were going to move up out of the situation they had been in for all these many years. Now 6 years later they are not better off and maybe even worse off than before. Whatever they believe is the cause of that they are still mad and angry and frustrated about things. They must feel like they're going to be stuck like this forever in these inner cities.

I'm impressed by this show of empathy from you, CT.

Well yeah to a degree I do. They've been fed lies from liberals for 50 years yet they still keep voting for them so my understanding goes only so far.

[AURaptor 1,125]

Report saying another guy in the van saying Gray was tossing himself around, trying to injur himself.

[AUUSN 823]

Because any moron knows you can sever your spine and crush your wind pipe by 'tossing' yourself around in a van...

[AURaptor 1,125]

Because any moron knows you can sever your spine and crush your wind pipe by 'tossing' yourself around in a van...

Have those injuries been confirmed? Any moron can make "stuff" up, handsupdontshoot.

Just what I heard on the radio. I'm not taking sides here.

[AUDub 11,149]

Because any moron knows you can sever your spine and crush your wind pipe by 'tossing' yourself around in a van...

Have those injuries been confirmed? Any moron can make "stuff" up, handsupdontshoot.

Just what I heard on the radio. I'm not taking sides here.

Medical examiner confirmed the broken neck.

[AURaptor 1,125]

Why don't we hear that instead of crushed .& severed ?

[AUUSN 823]

So what is it that you want out of the whole thing BB? Do you just want someone held accountable or is there a greater plan in mind?

Here are some solutions I posted on another threwad I believe would be helpful.

Demilitarizing the police- both in mindset and gear- is a must. AUUSN's thoughts on applying adapted counterinsurgency techniques has a role to play as well. I would either drastically limit or do away with entirely the concept of qualified immunity- which provides blanket protection from criminal prosecution for actions taken under color of law. True civilian oversight, a smartphone in the hand of every individual forced to interact with law enforcement, along with the confidence and knowledge that they have every right to use it, truly independent investigations of all shootings, and a culling of the sociopathic personalities that are too common in law enforcement. These are just some solutions. Ultimately, I don't think an entity that enjoys a monopoly on the use of legitimate force can or will put the necessary steps in action, which means the police need to be privatized. That could be done more quickly in rural and suburban areas, but I'm not yet convinced it couldn't be done nationwide. Some (conservatives, ironically) say the police are too important to be left to the private sector. If you ask me, its far too important to be left to anything else.

I approve of this message!

[cooltigger21 0]

There is so much that we don't know. When did the broken neck happen? How did it happen? Was it done by the police or did he do it to himself? What exactly happened in that van on the way to the police station? So many questions that still have to be answered.

[AUUSN 823]

Why don't we hear that instead of crushed .& severed ?

We wont hear that because Baltimore has decided not to make the report public. So, instead, we'll be treated to, back surgery, self injuring stories. It's just the same progression we've seen before...mixing skittles with arizona tea, drugs in the system, too fat, strategically releasing store video. Wash, rinse, repeat.

[cooltigger21 0]

Why don't we hear that instead of crushed .& severed ?

We wont hear that because Baltimore has decided not to make the report public. So, instead, we'll be treated to, back surgery, self injuring stories. It's just the same progression we've seen before...mixing skittles with arizona tea, drugs in the system, too fat, strategically releasing store video. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Don't forget hands up don't shoot. Oh wait that was true. The video dispelled the gentle giant narrative that had been put out and the media had run with.

[AUUSN 823]

Why don't we hear that instead of crushed .& severed ?

We wont hear that because Baltimore has decided not to make the report public. So, instead, we'll be treated to, back surgery, self injuring stories. It's just the same progression we've seen before...mixing skittles with arizona tea, drugs in the system, too fat, strategically releasing store video. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Don't forget hands up don't shoot. Oh wait that was true. The video dispelled the gentle giant narrative that had been put out and the media had run with.

Yes, yes any narrative that proves these 'thugs' deserved to die. Releasing the grocery store video helped the situation soooo much. No ulterior motive at all. Golly gee.