Referendum in Greece tomorrow.

[cooltigger21 0]

Watching this from a distance is fascinating. On one hand you've got Greece which is hopelessly in debt, far more than their economy could ever hope to repay. On the other you've got the central planners in Europe who lent them all that money largely to protect financial interests of their cronies. It should be interesting.

[quietfan 233]

It's a mess, for sure.

I hope we can continue to "watch from a distance". I.e., I hope it doesn't lead to a domino effect that brings down Europe's economy and then the rest of the world's, including ours.

[cooltigger21 0]

It's a mess, for sure.

I hope we can continue to "watch from a distance". I.e., I hope it doesn't lead to a domino effect that brings down Europe's economy and then the rest of the world's, including ours.

By itself it won't. What it could do is lead to a fundamental reform in both Greece and Europe, which is badly needed. A correction is coming one way or another eventually. The market always has the final say regardless of central bankers ideas to the contrary.

[AURaptor 1,113]

Unlike Lannisters, Greeks never pay their debts.

Never.

I expect them to reject austerity, and fall blindly into the abyss.

[cooltigger21 0]

Unlike Lannisters, Greeks never pay their debts.

Never.

I expect them to reject austerity, and fall blindly into the abyss.

There is more to it that that. I don't know all if it but even the most strict austerity measures won't accomplish a whole lot It is definitely going to have to happen but some kind of debt reduction is probably going to have to take place as well. Greece is not the only Eurozone country in trouble. It seems most of them are headed in the same direction but are not quite that far along. I look for the eventual dissolution of the EU as a formal entity and each country returning to their own national currency. I look for GB to vote to leave the EU whenever they have their referendum on it.

[AURaptor 1,113]

But it was fun to say.

[Guest NC1406]

Greece has committed to obligations they can never meet. The press sugar coats this as a need for "austerity". They have committed to more spending than any income they could ever hope to create. The Greek economy is nothing in world economics. The sell off in a HIGHLY leveraged Chinese stock market is going to be devastating to life as we know it. Next week should be interesting.

[Weagle1787 574]

"Deficits don't matter."

[cptau 138]

Watching this from a distance is fascinating. On one hand you've got Greece which is hopelessly in debt, far more than their economy could ever hope to repay. On the other you've got the central planners in Europe who lent them all that money largely to protect financial interests of their cronies. It should be interesting.

Greece is poorly governed. Corruption to include bribery is widespread in government. Tax evasion is a big problem with everyone from day labors to self employed professionals. 49% of the people are not paying all of the taxes they owe. The rich put their untaxed money in Swiss bank accounts. Not paying taxes in Greece is a carry over from the days Greece was under the Ottoman Empire when not paying Turkish taxes was considered patriotic. When they got their independence in 1827, they forgot to start paying taxes again.

[cooltigger21 0]

Well it was a no vote. Now we'll see how it plays out from here.

[AURaptor 1,113]

Saw that comin'

[quietfan 233]

Not paying taxes in Greece is a carry over from the days Greece was under the Ottoman Empire when not paying Turkish taxes was considered patriotic.

I love learning interesting historical tidbits like this. History is one of my favorite categories in Trivial Pursuit. Thanks! (Seriously, not mocking or joking!)

[icanthearyou 3,821]

Greece has committed to obligations they can never meet. The press sugar coats this as a need for "austerity". They have committed to more spending than any income they could ever hope to create. The Greek economy is nothing in world economics. The sell off in a HIGHLY leveraged Chinese stock market is going to be devastating to life as we know it. Next week should be interesting.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinas-stock-market-crashing-chinese-095900183.html

[Guest NC1406]

Greece has committed to obligations they can never meet. The press sugar coats this as a need for "austerity". They have committed to more spending than any income they could ever hope to create. The Greek economy is nothing in world economics. The sell off in a HIGHLY leveraged Chinese stock market is going to be devastating to life as we know it. Next week should be interesting.

http://finance.yahoo...-095900183.html

They are fighting the fall of highly leveraged stocks by relaxing margin requirements and added the "bookies" funds into the bubble. Hard to conceive a graceful way out of this creation.

[cooltigger21 0]

If been reading about China too. I really had no idea that was the situation. It is like that all over the world. All these central banks have been propping up stock markets. It is going to get ugly when that finally comes to an end.

[homersapien 10,149]

Not paying taxes in Greece is a carry over from the days Greece was under the Ottoman Empire when not paying Turkish taxes was considered patriotic.

I love learning interesting historical tidbits like this. History is one of my favorite categories in Trivial Pursuit. Thanks! (Seriously, not mocking or joking!)

I thought that was interesting also. It makes sense.

[Guest NC1406]

My wife has done some work with a Greek dog trainer that is extremely talented in his field. He had some interesting views on the situation. He claims his parents have paid into the system for many years and now they are having their benefits cut. He is working outside of Greece to make ends meet.

He also discussed the mass corruption in the Greek system and how the government created this nightmare. These discussions are from just over a year ago but I do not believe much has changed. Hopefully the EU (now called Germany by the press) will not bail Greece out.

The scenario sounds very similar to what is happening in our country just on a small scale. Without big changes in the US we will be escalating our charge to raid large companies and the "rich" to pay their fair share to meet our unfunded obligations. Every action has unintended consequences. This is going to be interesting.

[homersapien 10,149]

I disagree. Greece has done everything they should be expected to do. They have fired like 30% of their civil servants. No one wins if they are allowed to completely default. You can't get blood from a turnip and you can't re-start an economy with austerity.

And it's not like Germany paid all of their reparations after WWII.

[cooltigger21 0]

You've got two things at work here. Greece never should have been allowed in to greater Europe to begin with. They were a basket case then and still kept on with their socialist policies as if nothing had changed. They never were held to account for anything before being loaned money by the IMF and the ECB. They only just started finally introducing some small measure of refori but even now they still think they can pretty much keep on with what they've been doing. These idiots in Europe never should have kept bailing them out. The whole EU is just as corrupt. Several other countries are not far behind Greece in being way overburdened with debt in relation to GDP. A number of American cities are on the verge of just being the next Detroit. Illinois and California as states are headed that way too. They cannot just print money like the Fed or ECB can.

[Guest NC1406]

I disagree. Greece has done everything they should be expected to do.

Except pay their debt obligations.

[homersapien 10,149]

I disagree. Greece has done everything they should be expected to do.

Except pay their debt obligations.

Like I said, blood from a turnip...

[AUTUmike 79]

The best thing Greece can do now is to exit the Eurozone and revert to the drachma. Staying in the Eurozone will mean more austerity to some degree, even with the leverage gained from the resounding "no" vote. Greece was insolvent before the austerity measures were undertaken, and austerity has--predictably--increased their debt. By dumping the euro, Greeks could at least enjoy gains from their traditionally weak drachma in terms of tourism and Greek export attractiveness while making necessary reforms.

[AUtiger98 24]

You've got two things at work here. Greece never should have been allowed in to greater Europe to begin with. They were a basket case then and still kept on with their socialist policies as if nothing had changed. They never were held to account for anything before being loaned money by the IMF and the ECB. They only just started finally introducing some small measure of refori but even now they still think they can pretty much keep on with what they've been doing. These idiots in Europe never should have kept bailing them out. The whole EU is just as corrupt. Several other countries are not far behind Greece in being way overburdened with debt in relation to GDP. A number of American cities are on the verge of just being the next Detroit. Illinois and California as states are headed that way too. They cannot just print money like the Fed or ECB can.

I'm going to disagree with this just a little. These people are not idiots. They knew exactly what they were doing and to a certain extent they caused this to happen. Ideally they would like the Greeks to once again give in to their demand so they will have further control over them. "The debtor is slave to the lender". They will make it extremly difficult on Greece to show other European countries what the ramifications are.

But in the bigger picture, the socialist policies of Greece got them in this situation and they will have to deal with its failures; bail out or no bail out.

I'm afraid the TPP deal may be structured similar to the European Union, but I guess we have to wait for them to bring it out of hiding before we know for sure.

[homersapien 10,149]

The best thing Greece can do now is to exit the Eurozone and revert to the drachma. Staying in the Eurozone will mean more austerity to some degree, even with the leverage gained from the resounding "no" vote. Greece was insolvent before the austerity measures were undertaken, and austerity has--predictably--increased their debt. By dumping the euro, Greeks could at least enjoy gains from their traditionally weak drachma in terms of tourism and Greek export attractiveness while making necessary reforms.

In principle I agree. But I wonder how dependent Greece is on imports, which have to be paid in Euros.

But like you said, it would certainly boost their tourism and exports.