Muschamp so far

[sevenlee36 1,654]

Must of went over your head smh

There was nothing to go over my head with. You say random, emotional, half-assed stuff that doesn't correlate to facts and reality half the time.

And it's "must have", not "must of." If you're going to imply some higher level of intelligence and understanding, don't talk like a dummy.

I'll just spoke at ur level.

Your an admin? Maybe you should act like it?

Acting like an admin doesn't mean giving people a pass when they pull stuff out of their butt and try to pass it off as being a realist. Sorry if you were under that impression.

BS

You act like you've said something to win a debate, you are arguing with someone with similar views. Smh

You can continue arguing with yourself, proceed.

You made statements about Muschamp. When people called you on them, you doubled down and made erroneous claims about his tenure as a DC and completely left out his defenses at Florida. I and others called you out on that and I gave stats to back up the Texas claims in particular. It wasn't really a debate because you brought nothing that could be called an actual argument or any facts to the table.

I'm done arguing. All I'm saying is, if you're going to make proclamations about something here, don't get butthurt when people shoot holes in it if it's not well thought out.

That's all your opinion not fact.

If your the last one to post does that make you right? Advantage is your corner cause you can delete and ban.

Fact is your not right, don't act like you are. The truth is both sides have good arguments. Just cause your butt hurt and think I'm wrong don't make it that way, or fact. (This is an opinion board and people post crap 24/7 that has nothing backing it up and they don't have to.)

[TitanTiger 20,472]

That's all your opinion not fact.

I gave you facts. That you can't correlate them into coherent thought isn't my problem.

If your the last one to post does that make you right? Advantage is your corner cause you can delete and ban.

I've never deleted or banned anyone for disagreeing, so ditch the persecution complex. But I also expect people that make big claims to be able to back them up with more than, "well that's my opinion." Even opinions need to have a factual basis. Yours thus far have none.

Fact is your not right, don't act like you are. The truth is both sides have good arguments. Just cause your butt hurt and think I'm wrong don't make it that way, or fact. (This is an opinion board and people post crap 24/7 that has nothing backing it up and they don't have to.)

You've given no good arguments and the facts back up my points. The next fact you post to back your position will be the first. I don't police the board looking for every instance of idiotic reasoning. But if I do run across it and address the points (or just blowing of hot air) thrown out there, you don't get off easy by saying everyone's got an opinion.

[thaitopher 807]

Must of went over your head smh

There was nothing to go over my head with. You say random, emotional, half-assed stuff that doesn't correlate to facts and reality half the time.

And it's "must have", not "must of." If you're going to imply some higher level of intelligence and understanding, don't talk like a dummy.

I'll just spoke at ur level.

Your an admin? Maybe you should act like it?

Acting like an admin doesn't mean giving people a pass when they pull stuff out of their butt and try to pass it off as being a realist. Sorry if you were under that impression.

BS

You act like you've said something to win a debate, you are arguing with someone with similar views. Smh

You can continue arguing with yourself, proceed.

You made statements about Muschamp. When people called you on them, you doubled down and made erroneous claims about his tenure as a DC and completely left out his defenses at Florida. I and others called you out on that and I gave stats to back up the Texas claims in particular. It wasn't really a debate because you brought nothing that could be called an actual argument or any facts to the table.

I'm done arguing. All I'm saying is, if you're going to make proclamations about something here, don't get butthurt when people shoot holes in it if it's not well thought out.

That's all your opinion not fact.

If your the last one to post does that make you right? Advantage is your corner cause you can delete and ban.

Fact is your not right, don't act like you are. The truth is both sides have good arguments. Just cause your butt hurt and think I'm wrong don't make it that way, or fact. (This is an opinion board and people post crap 24/7 that has nothing backing it up and they don't have to.)

Sorry Sevenlee but I have yet to see you make any good arguments, or even back up your poor arguments.

[ShocksMyBrain 9,364]

Served.

[sevenlee36 1,654]

Must of went over your head smh

There was nothing to go over my head with. You say random, emotional, half-assed stuff that doesn't correlate to facts and reality half the time.

And it's "must have", not "must of." If you're going to imply some higher level of intelligence and understanding, don't talk like a dummy.

I'll just spoke at ur level.

Your an admin? Maybe you should act like it?

Acting like an admin doesn't mean giving people a pass when they pull stuff out of their butt and try to pass it off as being a realist. Sorry if you were under that impression.

BS

You act like you've said something to win a debate, you are arguing with someone with similar views. Smh

You can continue arguing with yourself, proceed.

You made statements about Muschamp. When people called you on them, you doubled down and made erroneous claims about his tenure as a DC and completely left out his defenses at Florida. I and others called you out on that and I gave stats to back up the Texas claims in particular. It wasn't really a debate because you brought nothing that could be called an actual argument or any facts to the table.

I'm done arguing. All I'm saying is, if you're going to make proclamations about something here, don't get butthurt when people shoot holes in it if it's not well thought out.

That's all your opinion not fact.

If your the last one to post does that make you right? Advantage is your corner cause you can delete and ban.

Fact is your not right, don't act like you are. The truth is both sides have good arguments. Just cause your butt hurt and think I'm wrong don't make it that way, or fact. (This is an opinion board and people post crap 24/7 that has nothing backing it up and they don't have to.)

Sorry Sevenlee but I have yet to see you make any good arguments, or even back up your poor arguments.

It's possible that WM is not as great as he has been hyped to be ( like or qb and whole team which was overhyped this year, but that's besides the point)

How many bad DC's did Tubbs or Saban have?

At Florida he was the HC not the DC, why does he get all the credit for the defense? Florida had Dan Quinn and DJ Durkin who are producing now. One has coached one of the best defenses in NFL history and coached in two Super Bowls. The other is coaching one of the more dominate defenses in the country, DJ Durkin at Michigan. Why does get all the credit for Florida's defense and none for the offense? He was the head coach.

I haven't said WM is a bad DC I said he was good but IMO he's overhyped and overpaid. I do think we improve. Now how is my opinion "BS"? How am I completely wrong? I'm not. Time will tell how good he is.

You Admin. Sniffer, jk

[FHeal 4]

^ ^ ^

SMH (serve mis-handed)

. . . looks like double fault to me.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

It's possible that WM is not as great as he has been hyped to be ( like or qb and whole team which was overhyped this year, but that's besides the point)

It's possible. But your certainly haven't demonstrated that to be the case with anything resembling a fact or research.

How many bad DC's did Tubbs or Saban have?

I haven't kept up with Saban that much. Hasn't Kirby Smart been his only DC at Bama?

Tuberville had ok coordinators at Ole Miss and early at Auburn. He did well with Chizik, decent with Gibbs, well with Muschamp.

I'll admit that this is the only point or question you've raised that has any weight to it, but it's hardly conclusive. Especially since Muschamp has been good without either of them.

At Florida he was the HC not the DC, why does he get all the credit for the defense?

Florida had Dan Quinn and DJ Durkin who are producing now. One has coached one of the best defenses in NFL history and coached in two Super Bowls. The other is coaching one of the more dominate defenses in the country, DJ Durkin at Michigan. Why does get all the credit for Florida's defense and none for the offense? He was the head coach.

So how does this logic work: Tubs and Saban as head coaches overshadow anything their respective defensive coordinators did because they are good defensive coaches. But Muschamp gets little to no credit for good defenses at Florida as a HC? Are you dizzy from spinning that hard? You can't have it both ways and discount his time as a DC because he was under good defensive HCs then discount his defenses as a HC because he had good DCs.

No one said he gets all the credit. But it's a continuing pattern of Muschamp fielding good to mostly outstanding defenses everywhere he's been.

I haven't said WM is a bad DC I said he was good but IMO he's overhyped and overpaid.

Again, something you have not proven with fact. Nor have you acknowledged that your assessment of his tenure at Texas was completely off base. You also failed to mention that it was an example of him succeeding at a high level not being under a highly regarded defensive minded HC.

I do think we improve. Now how is my opinion "BS"? How am I completely wrong? I'm not. Time will tell how good he is.

The issue isn't that you are completely wrong, it's that you are making assertions that either aren't based in facts (unproven) or in some cases are contradicted by facts.

[sevenlee36 1,654]

It's possible that WM is not as great as he has been hyped to be ( like or qb and whole team which was overhyped this year, but that's besides the point)

It's possible. But your certainly haven't demonstrated that to be the case with anything resembling a fact or research.

How many bad DC's did Tubbs or Saban have?

I haven't kept up with Saban that much. Hasn't Kirby Smart been his only DC at Bama?

Tuberville had ok coordinators at Ole Miss and early at Auburn. He did well with Chizik, decent with Gibbs, well with Muschamp.

I'll admit that this is the only point or question you've raised that has any weight to it, but it's hardly conclusive. Especially since Muschamp has been good without either of them.

At Florida he was the HC not the DC, why does he get all the credit for the defense?

Florida had Dan Quinn and DJ Durkin who are producing now. One has coached one of the best defenses in NFL history and coached in two Super Bowls. The other is coaching one of the more dominate defenses in the country, DJ Durkin at Michigan. Why does get all the credit for Florida's defense and none for the offense? He was the head coach.

So how does this logic work: Tubs and Saban as head coaches overshadow anything their respective defensive coordinators did because they are good defensive coaches. But Muschamp gets little to no credit for good defenses at Florida as a HC? Are you dizzy from spinning that hard? You can't have it both ways and discount his time as a DC because he was under good defensive HCs then discount his defenses as a HC because he had good DCs.

No one said he gets all the credit. But it's a continuing pattern of Muschamp fielding good to mostly outstanding defenses everywhere he's been.

I haven't said WM is a bad DC I said he was good but IMO he's overhyped and overpaid.

Again, something you have not proven with fact. Nor have you acknowledged that your assessment of his tenure at Texas was completely off base. You also failed to mention that it was an example of him succeeding at a high level not being under a highly regarded defensive minded HC.

I do think we improve. Now how is my opinion "BS"? How am I completely wrong? I'm not. Time will tell how good he is.

The issue isn't that you are completely wrong, it's that you are making assertions that either aren't based in facts (unproven) or in some cases are contradicted by facts.

This is entertaining.

I can't do much statisticsal research because I'm at work. So I can't come out to say DJ Durkin coaches the top total defense in the country. I can't put the actual numbers to it. If I were an Admin Of this site I could though. The site is mostly opinion anyway, you should know this because you are an Admin of the site.

So once again.. is it possible, yes or no, that WM is overhyped as a DC? You can't say for a fact. My opinion is yes. It's an opinion and your opinion is no more right then mine. Capeesh.

[aucanucktiger 1,791]

Re CEJ having the same free hand as CWM (by all appearances, he did), two different coaching approaches to winning using AU players on hand. I HOPE Will has carte blanche. I was horrified (to the horror of many still here) that Ellis had a free hand for so long and that it took so long for CGM to can Ellis' crazy obsession trying to cover top shelf SEC (and other) WR's man on man most of the time with non-top-shelf AU defenders, plus his using above average players like Garrett for a position ("star") that by its nature arguably requires a show stopping talent against SEC offenses. Both were proven SEC defensive coaches before AU but Will isn't doing similar, clear craziness, at least in his.... first 2 months. Glad he has carte blanche.

[triangletiger 1,599]

With regard to Will having carte blanche with the defense, does this include the right to hire or fire whomever he wishes to be the defensive assistant coaches? Was it his choice to retain Rodney Garner? I honestly don't know the answers to these questions, but I suspect that no decent head coach is going to give carte blanche permission to any of his assistants to do whatever they choose. I'm sure Gus wants to be informed and at least give his okay on the big decisions. After all, he's the one that's ultimately accountable.

[ShocksMyBrain 9,364]

With regard to Will having carte blanche with the defense, does this include the right to hire or fire whomever he wishes to be the defensive assistant coaches? Was it his choice to retain Rodney Garner? I honestly don't know the answers to these questions, but I suspect that no decent head coach is going to give carte blanche permission to any of his assistants to do whatever they choose. I'm sure Gus wants to be informed and at least give his okay on the big decisions. After all, he's the one that's ultimately accountable.

I think Muschamp was probably influenced to keep Garner to see if he can do something to improve the DL under a different coordinator. After this year, I simply cannot fathom a situation in which Garner is allowed to keep his job.

[AuburnNTexas 7,140]

One key area that has not been addressed about Auburn D is the constant changing of DC's and type of defense. Some players are recruited because they fit a system better than another player. Some players would be great no matter what system you put them in. Their is a complete new terminology, and a new set of reads every time a new DC comes in. Most players are better in the 2nd year of a new system then the first year are much better in the third and 4th year. We have not had that type of continuity in a long time at Auburn. We seem to have a new DC come in and first year he has to use players who may not fit his system, he teaches a new system and then in 2nd year and after only one year of recruiting players that fit his system he is gone. Basically we are into instant gratification and if we don't get it the DC is gone and we start over again. In my earlier post I said if D did a good job against ARKY I would give Muschamp a C+ if not lower and that if we kept improving his grade would go up.

I realized after thinking about it I was being one of those instant gratification guys I am complaining about. If we want a real D again we shouldn't even grade them in 1st year whether they do good or bad as they are using other coaches recruits. The earliest we should start grading them is the third year but the 4th year is when they have turned it around or not.

[sevenlee36 1,654]

Ever since we went to the Malzhan offense our defense has been down. (That's one way of looking at it). My question would be is there something to be said of how "spread" type teams practice, that effects the defense's physicality? (I know we aren't the traditional spread) it seems most all spread teams have a poor defense, there has to be something similar that's the issue, and perhaps its in how the defense practices and prepares?

I'm not sure if true but I heard we didn't hit much in practice?

[milehighfan 1,240]

As the old saying goes, "you don't win races without horses and there don't appear to be many in defensive corral. Not yet, anyway.

[FHeal 4]

One key area that has not been addressed about Auburn D is the constant changing of DC's and type of defense. Some players are recruited because they fit a system better than another player. Some players would be great no matter what system you put them in. Their is a complete new terminology, and a new set of reads every time a new DC comes in. Most players are better in the 2nd year of a new system then the first year are much better in the third and 4th year. We have not had that type of continuity in a long time at Auburn. We seem to have a new DC come in and first year he has to use players who may not fit his system, he teaches a new system and then in 2nd year and after only one year of recruiting players that fit his system he is gone. Basically we are into instant gratification and if we don't get it the DC is gone and we start over again. In my earlier post I said if D did a good job against ARKY I would give Muschamp a C+ if not lower and that if we kept improving his grade would go up.

I realized after thinking about it I was being one of those instant gratification guys I am complaining about. If we want a real D again we shouldn't even grade them in 1st year whether they do good or bad as they are using other coaches recruits. The earliest we should start grading them is the third year but the 4th year is when they have turned it around or not.

hmm:::

And that despite having good ingredients... they're all mixed up and still disjointed to a certain degree... and largely due to the synergy's (and philosophies) of three coordinators (Roof-Johnson-Muschamp)

(and most likely by someone else before that - in another thread) ... although I agree you're on to something there

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Ever since we went to the Malzhan offense our defense has been down. (That's one way of looking at it). My question would be is there something to be said of how "spread" type teams practice, that effects the defense's physicality? (I know we aren't the traditional spread) it seems most all spread teams have a poor defense, there has to be something similar that's the issue, and perhaps its in how the defense practices and prepares?

I'm not sure if true but I heard we didn't hit much in practice?

Clemson's defense looks pretty stout this year.

Muschamp's defenses at Texas were good and they ran a spread type system with Colt McCoy

Urban Meyer seems to have had good to very good defenses at Florida and Ohio State.

Missouri's defense has been pretty good.

Mississippi State has played good defense the past two years as has Ole Miss most of the time under Freeze the last couple of seasons.

I think that how you practice may have something to do with it, along with the type of players recruited. But other than that I think this falls under "correlation does not equal causation."

[FHeal 4]

Ever since we went to the Malzhan offense our defense has been down. (That's one way of looking at it). My question would be is there something to be said of how "spread" type teams practice, that effects the defense's physicality? (I know we aren't the traditional spread) it seems most all spread teams have a poor defense, there has to be something similar that's the issue, and perhaps its in how the defense practices and prepares?

I'm not sure if true but I heard we didn't hit much in practice?

Clemson's defense looks pretty stout this year.

Muschamp's defenses at Texas were good and they ran a spread type system with Colt McCoy

Urban Meyer seems to have had good to very good defenses at Florida and Ohio State.

Missouri's defense has been pretty good.

Mississippi State has played good defense the past two years as has Ole Miss most of the time under Freeze the last couple of seasons.

I think that how you practice may have something to do with it, along with the type of players recruited. But other than that I think this falls under "correlation does not equal causation."

. . . wasn't the opposite reported (forget who) out of camp, when a player quipped they were getting banged around this year, unlike how they had (ie: hadn't) the year before.

[johnnyAU 3,630]

I believe you'll see a difference next season with Muschamp a full season in and another recruiting class to work with. Maybe it's a "pie in the sky" ideal to some, but he has shown he can produce a good D given time and athletes.

[BigWhiskey91 632]

Let's get this off the table. The only thing a spread team does, is potentially expose the defense to more possessions. Our offense was averaging 9-10 possessions per game. Turnovers made that even worse. The mindset wasn't to have a season one 1 top10 defense. We just wanted something top50 to compliment what we thought we would have on offense.

Well the offense hasn't been able to help out the defense and the defense did enough to carry us through 2 games of 3 turnovers on offense. Now that the offense is finding its ground, the defense can continue to grow with a bit less stress.

On defense, you can't blitz every play when the offense is bad and the game is on the line. You have to keep everything in front of you and force the team to either risk a pass into coverage or keep it underneath. Yeah it sucks to watch, but the defense will get better as our young guys get better.

[keesler 5,924]

I wouldn't say he's a bust but he is overrated

:bs:/>

which part is BS? I'm sure it's the part where I say WM isn't a bust...?? Perhaps maybe?

Y'all have to give him some time but he's not a bust but he's not the best in the world like he's made out to be. He looked good as a DC at Auburn and LSU under Saban and Tubbs. Who hasn't looked good as a DC under those two?? (While tubbs was in the SEC)

He wasn't that good at Texas unless hitting white boards makes the difference.

Way to leave out the most important and most recent part of resume.

Some folks around here sure prefer talking to thinking.

The most recent part of WM's resume? You mean Florida? Where Dan Quinn was the DC and then went on to Seattle and took their D took them to a Super Bowl title? Or after Quinn left and Durkin took over and is now doing a fantastic with the Michigan D?

Listen, Muschamp's a good DC - but the last time he coordinated a defense, drew up a gameplan and orchestrated a defensive roster was at Texas. There's no way he didn't benefit greatly from Quinn & Durkin.

[AuburnNTexas 7,140]

I wouldn't say he's a bust but he is overrated

:bs:/>

which part is BS? I'm sure it's the part where I say WM isn't a bust...?? Perhaps maybe?

Y'all have to give him some time but he's not a bust but he's not the best in the world like he's made out to be. He looked good as a DC at Auburn and LSU under Saban and Tubbs. Who hasn't looked good as a DC under those two?? (While tubbs was in the SEC)

He wasn't that good at Texas unless hitting white boards makes the difference.

Way to leave out the most important and most recent part of resume.

Some folks around here sure prefer talking to thinking.

The most recent part of WM's resume? You mean Florida? Where Dan Quinn was the DC and then went on to Seattle and took their D took them to a Super Bowl title? Or after Quinn left and Durkin took over and is now doing a fantastic with the Michigan D?

Listen, Muschamp's a good DC - but the last time he coordinated a defense, drew up a gameplan and orchestrated a defensive roster was at Texas. There's no way he didn't benefit greatly from Quinn & Durkin.

Does he get credit for picking Quinn & Durkin. He recognized good defensive coaches because he was a good defensive coach. As a HC his failing was on the O side so nothing hurts his resume on the D side. It will take at least 3 to 4 years to determine if he was able to turn what had become a bottom dwelling Defense at Auburn into the kind of Defense most of us think Auburn should have and had for most of the last 70 years.

[Au4life23 6]

You cant judge someone after 6 games I'm my opinion but, Auburns defense has been the same Auburn D ever since Tommy left. Our D-Line has been good since Rodney Garner came. Now also you have to think Carl has been out the whole year but even if he was in do you think auburn would still be 4-2? I think so. We have some talent in Kris and Cassanova at the LB and Montravius Adams on the DL. My thing is we need one of these guys to step up while Carl is out.

But if I had to give it a grade I would give our D a C.

[PoetTiger 1,896]

Ever since we went to the Malzhan offense our defense has been down. (That's one way of looking at it). My question would be is there something to be said of how "spread" type teams practice, that effects the defense's physicality? (I know we aren't the traditional spread) it seems most all spread teams have a poor defense, there has to be something similar that's the issue, and perhaps its in how the defense practices and prepares?

I'm not sure if true but I heard we didn't hit much in practice?

Bama does not play the spread and they gave up a ton of points season against AU and OSU, not to mention Ole Miss this season. Tackling is tackling, wrapping up is wrapping up, playing hard and fast, etc. I don't think his offense has anything to do with the aggressiveness of the defense.

[thaitopher 807]

Our D-Line has been good since Rodney Garner came.

??????? Are you talking about Auburn? Thinking you may have come to this forum by accident. Maybe you thought this was Auburn high school's football team?

[ShocksMyBrain 9,364]

Our D-Line has been good since Rodney Garner came.

??????? Are you talking about Auburn? Thinking you may have come to this forum by accident. Maybe you thought this was Auburn high school's football team?

Probably meant "hasn't".