Malzahn vs. Saban

[PoetTiger 1,899]

Just now, AUIH1 said:

You do realize we had Foster bought and paid for before our bagman left right?  Foster is as much of a passing student as Nick Marshal was.

 

wde

Did not know Auburn was paying for Foster...news to me. And I don't recall seeing photos of Nick sleep in class or dumb tweets with spelling and usage errors a 6th grade student would not make...I guess the REC is stronger than Auburn and it's alleged bagmen..

[AUIH1 1,515]

4 minutes ago, PoetTiger said:

Did not know Auburn was paying for Foster...news to me. And I don't recall seeing photos of Nick sleep in class or dumb tweets with spelling and usage errors a 6th grade student would not make...I guess the REC is stronger than Auburn and it's alleged bagmen..

Troopa was paying for Foster.  No pics of Nick, but there are interviews with Nick that explain things and I imagine his tweets were similar. I really don't think you want to go there comparing Nick and Foster regarding how they tweeted.   FWIW, I think Nick Marshal was a great QB for us and I am a big fan of him as a football player.  But a scholar he was not and he was not exactly a shining light in terms of integrity and character off of the field at either at both uga or AU.

wde

[Aucater 152]

18 minutes ago, corchjay said:

Recruiting!  That's the bottom line.  You give Gus 5 straight number 1 recruiting classes and he will win 3 championships as well.  It's almost hard to lose when every player you have is better then there opponent.  Has nothing to do with scheme.  Kirby Smart took the same scheme to UGA and look at the results.

Thanks for putting it in a nutshell. It is the same as if you gave an NFL team the first 25 picks every year. What the hell do you think will result.

[corchjay 5,311]

14 minutes ago, Aucater said:

Thanks for putting it in a nutshell. It is the same as if you gave an NFL team the first 25 picks every year. What the hell do you think will result.

That's why recruiting misses in evaluation and injuries destroy what you have.  We can lose a player at some positions but at others it cost you games.  At bama they just roll in another 5 star or high 4 and generally they have a lot of playing time already as well.  

I like our coaching staff because they are proven recruiters.  We have as much talent as we ever had.  Problem is LSU and bama are both killing it on the trail every year.  

We must get back into Georgia, Miami, and panhandle of Florida again.  

[bigbird 60,571]

The machine is what secures those great recruiting classes.

[corchjay 5,311]

To add to this.  Go look at the 2008 state of Alabama recruiting.  Wonder why 2012 was so horrible? Look at that class.  Our highest rated player from instate was like 18th.  Second player was 20th.  We did better after that year but that was the seniors of 2012.  

As my dad always said you can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t.

[AUsince72 11,084]

16 minutes ago, bigbird said:

The machine is what secures those great recruiting classes.

You SURE it's not Saban's winning smile?

[corchjay 5,311]

4 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

You SURE it's not Saban's winning smile?

His awesome personality!  

[bigman334 56]

2 hours ago, corchjay said:

Recruiting!  That's the bottom line.  You give Gus 5 straight number 1 recruiting classes and he will win 3 championships as well.  It's almost hard to lose when every player you have is better then there opponent.  Has nothing to do with scheme.  Kirby Smart took the same scheme to UGA and look at the results.

no he would not.

[DAG 33,997]

2 hours ago, bigbird said:

The machine is what secures those great recruiting classes.

We need to invest in better machines.

[DAG 33,997]

2 hours ago, corchjay said:

That's why recruiting misses in evaluation and injuries destroy what you have.  We can lose a player at some positions but at others it cost you games.  At bama they just roll in another 5 star or high 4 and generally they have a lot of playing time already as well.  

I like our coaching staff because they are proven recruiters.  We have as much talent as we ever had.  Problem is LSU and bama are both killing it on the trail every year.  

We must get back into Georgia, Miami, and panhandle of Florida again.  

 

Just two years ago we went 7-6 with a consistent top freaking ten recruiting class. The Jimmy and Joes are not the sole problem. 

[doc4aday 1,887]

If Gus had Saban's players year in and out, we would be an awesome football machine. However, Gus would not do anything illegal like Saban and the big red turd machine.

[WeagleAU 594]

21 minutes ago, doc4aday said:

If Gus had Saban's players year in and out, we would be an awesome football machine. However, Gus would not do anything illegal like Saban and the big red turd machine.

If Gus had the political clout to make the NCAA look the other way like Saban, he wouldn't have to worry about what he's doing regardless of legalities. 

[metafour 4,969]

4 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

We're talking about a different machine... I'm talking about the machine that makes sure he gets the players he wants, that the NCAA stays away no matter how black & white the evidence, that there is always plenty of good press for bama and bad for their rivals, that their players can break pretty much any law and walk away, etc

Really, and where was this "machine" back when we were whooping Bama for 6 straight years? Saban took over a mess of a program and won 12 games his second season, and won a national title in his third.  You think this "machine" just randomly mobilized out of nowhere and provided absurd turnaround after only ONE year? Or do you think he's actually kind of a really good coach who also happens to be a really good recruiter?

[WeagleAU 594]

5 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

We're talking about a different machine... I'm talking about the machine that makes sure he gets the players he wants, that the NCAA stays away no matter how black & white the evidence, that there is always plenty of good press for bama and bad for their rivals, that their players can break pretty much any law and walk away, etc.

What you're talking about is the good ol' boy network, which is a problem, not a help, and something Auburn is still dealing with.

There are many people ignorant of this "machine" you are talking about.  But it does exist at bammer.  History has a funny way of revealing itself eventually...

Remember the 2 players that had felony charges just disappear and nothing more said and meanwhile they play on a "destined" team heading for the playoffs again.  That is just the icing on the cake.  This just doesn't happen folks.  

Bammer would sell its soul to continue to increase that number on the side of its helmet.  

[DAG 33,997]

5 hours ago, WeagleAU said:

There are many people ignorant of this "machine" you are talking about.  But it does exist at bammer.  History has a funny way of revealing itself eventually...

Remember the 2 players that had felony charges just disappear and nothing more said and meanwhile they play on a "destined" team heading for the playoffs again.  That is just the icing on the cake.  This just doesn't happen folks.  

Bammer would sell its soul to continue to increase that number on the side of its helmet.  

 

[milehighfan 1,240]

Sone thing I think about, what if Ricj.Rodriguez had stayed in.turdtown? 

[DAG 33,997]

7 hours ago, metafour said:

Really, and where was this "machine" back when we were whooping Bama for 6 straight years? Saban took over a mess of a program and won 12 games his second season, and won a national title in his third.  You think this "machine" just randomly mobilized out of nowhere and provided absurd turnaround after only ONE year? Or do you think he's actually kind of a really good coach who also happens to be a really good recruiter?

 

 

No he isn't a good coach. Bama made saban. Just like it made SHULA and his 3 NCs

Insert you are a bama fan in 3,2, 1

 

[milehighfan 1,240]

When you think about it  doesn't have to worry about recruiting. Any problems occur and the REC club is there to clean up their boo's boo's. And if you happen to beat them on the field, then surprise surprise, here comes the ncaa.

[AU64 10,122]

2 hours ago, DAG said:

No he isn't a good coach. Bama made saban. Just like it made SHULA and his 3 NCs

Insert you are a bama fan in 3,2, 1

 

Those were the same geniuses who also hired Dubose and Mike Price and Franchione and tried to hire Rich Rod?    Cheez  they make one lucky hire and all of a sudden some folks seem to think they control the entire world?  

As for me, I'm confident that they will make another bad hire and bama will return to their rightful place on the list of NCAA violators like they resided for 15 consecutive years not that long ago. 

[aucanucktiger 1,794]

18 hours ago, steeleagle said:

 

What does having only one undefeated season got to do with, if a coach is great or not? Nothing...

p.s Isn't Saban now on a 25 game winning streak? I'll take those kind of streaks at AU if we win some more championships. lol.

And this isn't about the one stat that seems to be the only one in our favor (winning 8+ games = Saban not beating us). 

I was only responding to someone saying he was a 'regular coach'.  He's proven he is more than that. Just bring up any of the modern day coaches that are doing well, and see how they compare with the most important stat...winning the Championship.

The closest i see to Saban is Meyer...and he needs to pick it up a notch...:)

Saban at Auburn is Frank Beamer. Auburn has 12 undefeated seasons and Bama has 13. Now compare awarded national titles. Media worships Ohio State, Notre Dame, USC, Bama & the Florida schools. A 25 game winning streak is terrific - almost two seasons. It's Terry Bowden. Without media sniffing the boxers of Bama's "legend" du jour, Saban is essentially Bobby Bowden. Impressive - even statue material. Definitely not "regular" - which I did not post. The Urban Meyer comparison is perfect - we punked him down in Gainesville and he STILL got a national title. He went undefeated at Utah with a non-joke schedule and didn't get squat. Saban and Meyer are OUTSTANDING recruiters but our coaches have outcoached them. 2010 & 2013 are glaring but there are others when we had clearly inferior depth & talent - the 8+ game stat is not the only indicator.

Back to the original thread topic: true, Saban & Meyer earn their recruited talent but it's also true they can cover Phillip Fulmer-caliber gameday blunders with media/committees/pollsters providing a different standard for the schools at which they coach.   

Just my opinion, not trying to convince anybody of anything.

 

[WeagleAU 594]

3 hours ago, milehighfan said:

When you think about it  doesn't have to worry about recruiting. Any problems occur and the REC club is there to clean up their boo's boo's. And if you happen to beat them on the field, then surprise surprise, here comes the ncaa.

See ole miss...they got what they "deserved" for beating bammers.

Move over Miami, meet the new Thug U

[AUsince72 11,084]

I don't know if it's just about "the machine" cuz, as others have stated, bammers had plenty o' clunkers since bahr (outside of Stallings, who I actually have a little respect for).  Look at Dumbose, "Can't beat Auburn" Curry, Shula, etc... It's more like Saban just caught the perfect wave as he stands on the board and Emmert comes along.  

Luck was a topic of conversation awhile back and that's where I feel Saban falls under.  Sure, he's a good coach....sure he's a good recruiter....but does anybody really believe, in this day of parity, lower scholly limits, mercenary players wanting immediate PT, that kids are REALLY clamoring to ride the pine for a HUGE a-hole in the armpit of Alabama in west Vance?

I'm just not impressed with "domination" when one doesn't have to perform on a level playing field and Sabear having the warmth and protection that his "friend" provides from the bloodhounds of the NCAA falls under luck.  He's the luckiest sob in college football.  I hope that deal he made wasn't signed in blood...

But...that's just my opinion.

[GwillMac6 20,689]

4 hours ago, aucanucktiger said:

Saban at Auburn is Frank Beamer. Auburn has 12 undefeated seasons and Bama has 13. Now compare awarded national titles. Media worships Ohio State, Notre Dame, USC, Bama & the Florida schools. A 25 game winning streak is terrific - almost two seasons. It's Terry Bowden. Without media sniffing the boxers of Bama's "legend" du jour, Saban is essentially Bobby Bowden. Impressive - even statue material. Definitely not "regular" - which I did not post. The Urban Meyer comparison is perfect - we punked him down in Gainesville and he STILL got a national title. He went undefeated at Utah with a non-joke schedule and didn't get squat. Saban and Meyer are OUTSTANDING recruiters but our coaches have outcoached them. 2010 & 2013 are glaring but there are others when we had clearly inferior depth & talent - the 8+ game stat is not the only indicator.

Back to the original thread topic: true, Saban & Meyer earn their recruited talent but it's also true they can cover Phillip Fulmer-caliber gameday blunders with media/committees/pollsters providing a different standard for the schools at which they coach.   

Just my opinion, not trying to convince anybody of anything.

 

its because college football is the opposite of the NFL. NFL is a what have you done for me lately league. If you do not win you are forgotten. Left in the dust. Panthers and broncos the 2 super bowl teams last year are afterthoughts this year. Why? not winning enough. Same with the Arizona Cardinals the other team in the NFC title game. Only the cowboys have the luxury of dominating news coverage regardless of result. In the NFL they are not constantly obsessed with the past like college football. Only in college football can you be consistently mediocre but because your a blue blood you get the same amount of media coverage as some non blue blood who is having a great season. Its why the whats wrong with notre dame?! when will texas be back (and really insert any blue blood who is down and they will say this about.) In college its about who was great in the late 1800s and early 1900s not necessarily who is great now. The worst is when people fall in line with the forced down our throat media narrative of MAN! College football is just better when *insert blue blood is good*. Why? no it isn't college football is great regardless you blind sheep. Unfortunately Auburn is a fringe blue blood team. It takes a all time great coach to get you a permanent seat at the table and change your programs present AND future for the rest of time on how the media sees you and how your covered. See my bandwagon college basketball team Duke blue devils in basketball. Before coach K they were a nice program a pretty good program but nowhere NEAR where they are today and over the run of almost 4 decades that coach K has taken them on. He single handidly willed them to blue blood status and they have became the premiere program of the modern era. Could you imagine us Auburn dethroning Alabama as the state school and becoming the better program and more dominant program the more talked about the more desirable program in state? Thats what duke did and has done with coach K. Coach K has flipped the whole script in the state of north carolina and college basketball as a whole. I am waiting for our coach k.......... and waiting and waiting. I know All it takes is ONLY the greatest coach of the modern era!!! lol

[lionheartkc 6,150]

58 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

Saban just caught the perfect wave as he stands on the board and Emmert comes along.

You hit the nail on the head.  Saban's ties to Emmert are exactly what gave the machine the final piece it needed to dominate. When they can do what they do with no fear of consequences there's really no stopping them.

The thing that amazes me is that people actually think that one guy can be so much better at recruiting and coaching than anyone else out there that he can make a program beyond dominant for a decade. That makes FAR less sense than the idea that they have several unfair advantages.

1 hour ago, AUsince72 said:

but does anybody really believe, in this day of parity, lower scholly limits, mercenary players wanting immediate PT, that kids are REALLY clamoring to ride the pine for a HUGE a-hole in the armpit of Alabama in west Vance?

No, but they are clamoring to have a guaranteed pay day from the moment they sign their NLI and extra advantages that could get them into the league.