Malzahn vs. Saban

[AuGrad2004 100]

I don't care what any of you say.  If Saban had come to AU and had the same results he is having over in Turdville EVERY ONE of you (including me) would absolutely love the man and his product.  You can say otherwise but it's hard to hear you up there on your high horse.

[keesler 5,928]

6 hours ago, DAG said:

If you don't care and just want to enjoy the game of football, cool. This is your prerogative. However, do not complain about the the Bama and tOSU of the world in one breath, while holding on to that mindset with the next.

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

6 hours ago, bigman334 said:

He doesnt recruit guys that dont fit.

I'm going to disagree on this point.  He actually recruits guys that don't fit all of the time.  They just get processed, because he recruits so many high level players that the ones that don't fit are expendable. 

[AUsince72 11,084]

57 minutes ago, AuGrad2004 said:

I don't care what any of you say.  If Saban had come to AU and had the same results he is having over in Turdville EVERY ONE of you (including me) would absolutely love the man and his product.  You can say otherwise but it's hard to hear you up there on your high horse.

Yeah, but he ain't.  He's at bammer so we AU people gotta hate on him instead.  

[lionheartkc 6,150]

58 minutes ago, AuGrad2004 said:

I don't care what any of you say.  If Saban had come to AU and had the same results he is having over in Turdville EVERY ONE of you (including me) would absolutely love the man and his product.  You can say otherwise but it's hard to hear you up there on your high horse.

Call me a high horse rider if you like, but the main reason I love Auburn football is, as long as I have been a fan, they have publicly held themselves to a higher level of integrity and sportsmanship. I would never give that up for trophies. If Auburn were to sell it's soul for national championships, I'd go back to not caring about sports at all.

[AUsince72 11,084]

I don't know if I'm "high horse" or not...

I just know that every time an AU coach has even sneezed without covering his nose, there's an NCAA investigation.  Yet bammer's been, fairly overtly, flaunting the rules since at least the bahr days and rarely, if ever, get a sniff.  Thus Auburn has this "cheating rep" and uat has pearly gates and streets paved with gold.

It's the double standard that chaps many a hyde.  If that makes my horse extra tall, then so be it.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 hour ago, AURandy56 said:

I realize Saban and Emmert have a long history together, but could/would Emmert totally ignore outcries from other coaches, in and out of the SEC?

Yes, he would, and he has.  Several coaches have reported things that bama has done. Several sports outlets have laid out paper trails of major infractions. NOTHING has been done since Emmert took office. He knows that if Saban goes down, he goes down with him, because Saban knows all of Emmert's skeletons.

1 hour ago, AURandy56 said:

Gus is paid 4.5 million dollars to WIN, not just to make the AU faithful feel good.

It's funny that people think Gus's 4.5 million is supposed to be for him to bring home championships. The $4.5 million is the going rate for the job.  If you look at his contract, he gets bonuses for winning championships. In fact, if he gets the vaunted 10 wins that so many people wants, he walks away with an extra $75,000, so that means that 9 wins is the most expected for that $4.5 million. If he gets to the SEC Championship Game... that's an extra $100,000.  Win it? Tack on $150,000. In fact, guess what.  Gus got $200,000 because we're playing in the Sugar Bowl. 

Like it or not, $4.5 Million is the going rate just to show up to work everyday as Auburn's head coach.  You can thank the idiots across the state for that as much as anyone else.

1 hour ago, AURandy56 said:

Professors are paid to produce smart students. If they don't produce, they are sent packing.

Do you really believe this? The university could care less how students fare in a professor's class. I had several engineering classes at Auburn that 90% of the students failed because the professor was such a poor teacher... but he did great research and published prominent papers.

[corchjay 5,311]

9 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

I don't know if I'm "high horse" or not...

I just know that every time an AU coach has even sneezed without covering his nose, there's an NCAA investigation.  Yet bammer's been, fairly overtly, flaunting the rules since at least the bahr days and rarely, if ever, get a sniff.  Thus Auburn has this "cheating rep" and uat has pearly gates and streets paved with gold.

It's the double standard that chaps many a hyde.  If that makes my horse extra tall, then so be it.

Amen.  And I think we have been "clean" since the Dye days.  No probation or sanctions.  Can UAT say the same?  

And to those saying produce results.  We are if for no other reason then by default the 2nd ranked team in the SEC, last year was a failure, the year before had it all rolling and the defense just quit so made some defensive changes, the year prior we were in the MNC game.  I'll take that.  An SEC championship, a runner up essentially a couple average years and then roll around again.

[keesler 5,928]

1 hour ago, AURandy56 said:

I am still amazed at how Saban gets all those 4 and 5 star players, with a lot of them knowing they're going to ride the pine for a few years before getting any significant playing time, or at best being on the punt teams. I don't doubt that the REC helps, but do they help that much? Do they "help" any more than "help" players might be getting to go to AU or UGA or any other school? If the REC is doing all that's suspected, why aren't the other coaches in the league and outside the league raising hell about it? I realize Saban and Emmert have a long history together, but could/would Emmert totally ignore outcries from other coaches, in and out of the SEC? Maybe I'm being naive about all this. I also wonder if AU is also recruiting these same 4 and 5 star recruits that Bama is going after? I read an article by Sports Down South on predicting where the top uncommitted 2017 recruits will go, and AU was NOT in the running for any of them. NONE. 

 

According to one pre-season mag (Phil Steele maybe?) UAT fielded the least experienced roster in the SEC this year.  Ohio State did the same in the Big10, Clemson did the same for the ACC.  The mag ranked the UAT roster at 116th, OSU at 128th, Clemson at 101st.  

When high school 4-5*'s all across the country watched bama games this season, they saw true freshmen (RB Jacobs/QB Hurts/RB Emmons/RT Jonah Williams/LB Mack Wilson/TE Forristall) all playing ball with a few of them actually starting.  The "riding the pine" and lack of significant PT notion gets kicked to the curb when they see those 18 yr old green horns in action.

What those three programs have been able to accomplish recently sticks in a 4-5*'s head and it makes it easy for the kid to know what those coaches and those programs are about.  They know going in that the potential benefits are solid and if they have enough confidence in their abilities and think they can cut it, they know the rewards are sky high.

The really head-scratching thing here is that for the last 3 years OSU & CU are consistently recruiting between the top 5-10 classes most years.  Auburn's recruiting is right in there with OSU & CU - but for way too many reasons we can't count, we aren't sniffing the W-L records they've had for the past 3 seasons.

[corchjay 5,311]

1 minute ago, keesler said:

 

The really head-scratching thing here is that for the last 3 years OSU & CU are consistently recruiting between the top 5-10 classes most years.  Auburn's recruiting is right in there with OSU & CU - but for way too many reasons we can't count, we aren't sniffing the W-L records they've had for the past 3 seasons.

Competition they play against.  Put them in the SEC and they would average 2 more loses per year.  Sitting at 8-4 ain't near as pretty as 10-2

[Gowebb11 9,375]

1 hour ago, AURandy56 said:

I am still amazed at how Saban gets all those 4 and 5 star players, with a lot of them knowing they're going to ride the pine for a few years before getting any significant playing time, or at best being on the punt teams. I don't doubt that the REC helps, but do they help that much? Do they "help" any more than "help" players might be getting to go to AU or UGA or any other school? If the REC is doing all that's suspected, why aren't the other coaches in the league and outside the league raising hell about it? I realize Saban and Emmert have a long history together, but could/would Emmert totally ignore outcries from other coaches, in and out of the SEC? Maybe I'm being naive about all this. I also wonder if AU is also recruiting these same 4 and 5 star recruits that Bama is going after? I read an article by Sports Down South on predicting where the top uncommitted 2017 recruits will go, and AU was NOT in the running for any of them. NONE. 

As far as the winning issue---Gus is paid 4.5 million dollars to WIN, not just to make the AU faithful feel good. Professors are paid to produce smart students. If they don't produce, they are sent packing. Why shouldn't college coaches be held to the same standard of producing a winning product? I agree that teams shouldn't expect to win every game every year---outside of those in Tuscaloosa---but we should expect that our coaches put out the best effort to win, not just to make us all feel good. I think we would all feel GREAT with winning. 

Saban wins championships and sends guys to the league in record numbers. They just had 6 alums make the NFL all pro team and are expected to have 5-6 first round draft picks this year. It's not hard to convince kids to ride the pines a couple of years when you are doing that. I understand the frustration of our coach making over $4 million a year and not winning more. The problem is, almost every coach in the league makes that much or more and their fans feel the same way. Jimmy Sexton is brilliant but the ADs in the SEC should be ashamed at how they've allowed all these coaches to make the money they do without tying the pay to higher standards, like consistent 10 win seasons. Have to be careful though. UGA and LSU just traded Richt and Miles for Smart and Orgeron. Jury is still out on those two. Different can be worse but it's not guaranteed to be better. War Eagle and may we destroy the Sooners in New Orleans. 

[GwillMac6 20,742]

1 hour ago, lionheartkc said:

Call me a high horse rider if you like, but the main reason I love Auburn football is, as long as I have been a fan, they have publicly held themselves to a higher level of integrity and sportsmanship. I would never give that up for trophies. If Auburn were to sell it's soul for national championships, I'd go back to not caring about sports at all.

let me get this straight you come to  a Auburn board not because you want to win and love Auburn athletics and the many great history and traditions we have but because you think we hold ourselves to a higher level of integrity and sportsmanship? THIS right here is what I do not get about certain Auburn people. We think we are so high and mighty but this is big boy college athletics. Everyone who is a major program which we are IS SLIMY! Are you really naive to think Auburn is above the fray and thumbs its noses at bending the rules? If you did not care about winning  you would not be posting on a message board seeing if we got the big time recruit and complaining about what the next dumb Malzahn playcall or WR rotation was during the game. The go to crutch for a lot of the Auburn family is to act like winning is beneath them and they do not care about it because its all about handshakes, integrity and good sportsmanship. Your one of my favorite posters so do not take this as me having some kind of personal vendetta against you. YOU of all posters in here saying that to me tired line caught me off guard.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, GwillMac6 said:

let me get this straight you come to  a Auburn board not because you want to win and love Auburn athletics and the many great history and traditions we have but because you think we hold ourselves to a higher level of integrity and sportsmanship? 

Close... I come to an Auburn board because I love Auburn athletics BECAUSE they have many great traditions, a storied history, AND they do hold themselves to a higher level of integrity and sportsmanship. Auburn hires coaches based on character as much as winning percentage. Auburn emphasizes winning and losing with class. Auburn fans pride themselves on being friendly to all comers (well maybe not typical bama fans). 

If you think that makes me naive or any less of a fan, you are welcome to your opinion.

6 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

Are you really naive to think Auburn is above the fray and thumbs its noses at bending the rules?

While I am fully aware that there are always "boosters" out there that do whatever they want, I know for a fact that our compliance department goes above and beyond to prevent bending of the rules by university staff. I also know that our coaching staff does not believe in cheating to win. If you don't believe our coaches care about doing things right, I give you Landon Rice/Jovon Robinson and Jay Mixon. 

8 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

If you did not care about winning  you would not be posting on a message board seeing if we got the big time recruit and complaining about what the next dumb Malzahn playcall or WR rotation was during the game.

I never said I didn't care about winning.  I love winning, when you do it the right way. I love it when we land a recruit because they want to be part of the family.  I hate it when Malzahn craps the bed like he did against Clemson. But I would not be even remotely happy if we hired a Saban, Meyer, Fisher, or Petrino in order to add Ws when we know that the culture of Auburn football would go out the window to get those wins.

[corchjay 5,311]

Nothing compares to Auburn.  Nothing!!!!!!(outside of God and family of course). 

 

And if you have an "eye" for something else you're being unfaithful to her!  Once you realize that then all the other just falls in place.  That's just the way some of us feel.  I'd say the video game generation probably thinks a little differently then I do.

If you were in the 60s-70s your outlook would be much different.  We were bad.  And I mean bad bad!

[GwillMac6 20,742]

2 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Close... I come to an Auburn board because I love Auburn athletics BECAUSE they have many great traditions, a storied history, AND they do hold themselves to a higher level of integrity and sportsmanship. Auburn hires coaches based on character as much as winning percentage. Auburn emphasizes winning and losing with class. Auburn fans pride themselves on being friendly to all comers (well maybe not typical bama fans). 

 

That is why though we hire a coach every 4 or 5 years or so lately because JAR JAR wants to hire someone to hold his hand in sunday school instead of the most qualified head coach. We are hiring a football coach not someone to be the next pastor at Auburn first baptist! lol... Football coaches are hired to be great on the football field and win games. That is there job to do. Listen in a ideal world we would get a great man who is ALSO a great coach but hey most of the time that is just not the case. That is why we have Chette Williams. That is where he comes in and does a wonderful job in the area you are looking for.

[corchjay 5,311]

1 minute ago, GwillMac6 said:

That is why though we hire a coach every 4 or 5 years or so lately because JAR JAR wants to hire someone to hold his hand in sunday school instead of the most qualified head coach. We are hiring a football coach not someone to be the next pastor at Auburn first baptist! lol... Football coaches are hired to be great on the football field and win games. That is there job to do. Listen in a ideal world we would get a great man who is ALSO a great coach but hey most of the time that is just not the case. That is why we have Chette Williams. That is where he comes in and does a wonderful job in the area you are looking for.

I don't know Gus personally but I think he fits the bill on both accounts great guy and great football coach.  

If all we can point at is injuries and the Clemson game... then how do you explain away Saban Almighty's Utah game? Or Oklahoma? He's the best coach got the best players.  My goodness how does he lose?

[lionheartkc 6,150]

10 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

That is why though we hire a coach every 4 or 5 years or so lately because JAR JAR wants to hire someone to hold his hand in sunday school instead of the most qualified head coach. We are hiring a football coach not someone to be the next pastor at Auburn first baptist! lol... Football coaches are hired to be great on the football field and win games. That is there job to do. Listen in a ideal world we would get a great man who is ALSO a great coach but hey most of the time that is just not the case. That is why we have Chette Williams. That is where he comes in and does a wonderful job in the area you are looking for.

The reality of it all is, I'm never going to get you to see things my way and you're never going to get me to see things your way. We have different priorities. It is what it is, so on this subject I will wish you a Merry Christmas and give you a big War Eagle and leave it at that.

[GwillMac6 20,742]

5 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

The reality of it all is, I'm never going to get you to see things my way and you're never going to get me to see things your way. We have different priorities. It is what it is, so on this subject I will wish you a Merry Christmas and give you a big War Eagle and leave it at that.

sounds good to me brother! WAR EAGLE!!!! and yes that is very true! haha Merry Christmas indeed!

[abw0004 10,134]

23 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

The reality of it all is, I'm never going to get you to see things my way and you're never going to get me to see things your way. We have different priorities. It is what it is, so on this subject I will wish you a Merry Christmas and give you a big War Eagle and leave it at that.

 

22 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

sounds good to me brother! WAR EAGLE!!!! and yes that is very true! haha

Never a bad thing to see it from different sides.  As long as it's respectful.  Everyone knows my train of thought is more aligned with lionheartkc, so I agree that Auburn has a higher standard.   If you want proof even in the quality of guys, I created a thread a few months back showing over the past 10 years, Auburn has the fewest number of players arrested in the SEC.  Even in how we recruit, we are basically the opposite of Kirby Smart who plays dirty to get players.  Gus has also made it clear he will not take players that have domestic or sexual abuse issues or tolerate it.  And has backed up those words.

Not saying your opinion isn't valid GwillMac6.  I have learned having an opposite opinion is sometimes good, especially in business.  Sometimes you see things I don't catch, and I hope you can say the same for me.  I will say again though I do believe and seen firsthand when I was a student we do hold ourselves to a higher standard.  It's just who we're are and the type of students we attract, and we aren't the only school like this. 

If I don't interact with you both before Sunday, have a wonderful Christmas!  Looking forward to January 2nd.  

[aubaseball 2,652]

People are getting auburn students and auburn sports confused.   Auburn students and fans pride themselves on being respectful and hospitable towards other fans.   Auburn athletics recruits the same kids as everyone else.   We are not better than any other team when it comes to hit or misses on those players.   We have had our fair share of bad apples.   What I don't understand is that some people would not want coaches like Meyer, harbaugh or saban

[AU64 10,122]

13 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

People are getting auburn students and auburn sports confused.   Auburn students and fans pride themselves on being respectful and hospitable towards other fans.   Auburn athletics recruits the same kids as everyone else.   We are not better than any other team when it comes to hit or misses on those players.   We have had our fair share of bad apples.   What I don't understand is that some people would not want coaches like Meyer, harbaugh or saban

We do get a share of bad apples...comes with fishing in the same pond as everyone else....but have you noticed that those bad apples generally are not around here very long?  AU coaches have cut loose some pretty good players that many other schools would have found a way to accommodate.  My only complaint usually falls along the line of why it took so long. 

[AUIH1 1,515]

10 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

Call me a high horse rider if you like, but the main reason I love Auburn football is, as long as I have been a fan, they have publicly held themselves to a higher level of integrity and sportsmanship. I would never give that up for trophies. If Auburn were to sell it's soul for national championships, I'd go back to not caring about sports at all.

LOL, of course our football program has publicly held itself to a higher level of integrity and sportsmanship. Psst, just so you know, every football factory in the country publicly says they are a beacon of integrity and sportsmanship.   Pat Dye was willing to sell everything to win championships and he came close.  Tubs was not as blatant as Dye but he did come close in 2004.  

 

wde

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

1 hour ago, AUIH1 said:

LOL, of course our football program has publicly held itself to a higher level of integrity and sportsmanship. Psst, just so you know, every football factory in the country publicly says they are a beacon of integrity and sportsmanship.   Pat Dye was willing to sell everything to win championships and he came close.  Tubs was not as blatant as Dye but he did come close in 2004.  

 

wde

You really are not to close to the program if you believe that Auburn is anywhere close to uat in the cheating side. Worse case ever shown on AU was a coach caught on tape by a player begging for money to feed his child and the coach gave him a couple of hundred out of compassion. You my friend are completely wrong and should really do some studying up on the program you claim to be a fan of. The rec are in a league of their own. WDE

[AUIH1 1,515]

45 minutes ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

You really are not to close to the program if you believe that Auburn is anywhere close to uat in the cheating side. Worse case ever shown on AU was a coach caught on tape by a player begging for money to feed his child and the coach gave him a couple of hundred out of compassion. You my friend are completely wrong and should really do some studying up on the program you claim to be a fan of. The rec are in a league of their own. WDE

I do know.  I am a proud graduate of AU.  I know very well how the AU football program works from the 1982 - 1985 when I was a tutor for the program until today where my best friend growing up works very closely with the AD and was on the Auburn PD before retiring.

wde

[AU80cruiser 1,102]

16 hours ago, keesler said:

According to one pre-season mag (Phil Steele maybe?) UAT fielded the least experienced roster in the SEC this year.  Ohio State did the same in the Big10, Clemson did the same for the ACC.  The mag ranked the UAT roster at 116th, OSU at 128th, Clemson at 101st.  

When high school 4-5*'s all across the country watched bama games this season, they saw true freshmen (RB Jacobs/QB Hurts/RB Emmons/RT Jonah Williams/LB Mack Wilson/TE Forristall) all playing ball with a few of them actually starting.  The "riding the pine" and lack of significant PT notion gets kicked to the curb when they see those 18 yr old green horns in action.

What those three programs have been able to accomplish recently sticks in a 4-5*'s head and it makes it easy for the kid to know what those coaches and those programs are about.  They know going in that the potential benefits are solid and if they have enough confidence in their abilities and think they can cut it, they know the rewards are sky high.

The really head-scratching thing here is that for the last 3 years OSU & CU are consistently recruiting between the top 5-10 classes most years.  Auburn's recruiting is right in there with OSU & CU - but for way too many reasons we can't count, we aren't sniffing the W-L records they've had for the past 3 seasons.

I listened to most all the bama games. It was a trade off for listening to all the auburn games in my office. I have to say Phil Steele must have made this list preseason because i think auburn wins youngest team hands down.

I dont recall forristall or emmons name being called at all. If they were it was less playing time than Kmart or Malik Miller. Mack Wilson would be a tradeoff to our Tre Threat.  Marlon Davidson, Derrick Brown, Kyle Davis, and Eli Stove had as much or more playing time as Hurts, Jacobs, and Jonah Williams. Dont forget John Broussard, Nate Craig-Meyers, and Daniel Thomas had decent playing time too. Plus im sure we had more true sophomore talent playing for us Javaris Davis, Carlton Davis, Darrell Williams, Kerryon Johnson, Ryan Davis, Darius Slayton, Chandler Cox, Jalen Harris, Byron Cowart, Jeff Holland, and Montavious Atkinson.

We really should be good for the next two years with all these sophomores and freshmen getting so much playing time.