Malzahn vs. Saban

[DAG 33,997]

 

We should quit comparing ourselves to the turds!

Let's compare Gus Malzhan resume to Nick Saban's.

AUF logic.

NS is the best coach of my generation. Let it go. CGM could become a great one if he got out of his own way. NS learned that along the way. NS didn't become a great coach overnight? No kidding. Micheal Jordan didn't become the best player in the NBA overnight either.  Took him several years to get to the NBA finals and about 4 years to make it pass the 1st round. I imagine you could find a stat, showing a legit player having better success than MJ early on. Heck, MJ didn't really get over the hump until he got the zen master and a wingman in Scottie Pippen. Does that devalue MJ status as the greatest? Nor should what NS did at LSU and Bama devalue his. Scottie Pippen had the exact same team that MJ had when he initially retired and they could not get to the finals, albeit close. Mysteriously MJ comes back and they are back to their winning ways. Likewise, I don't see anyone matching NS success at Bama anytime soon, including anyone coaching at LSU, tOSU, FSU, USC or whoever may be deemed the Alabama ball coach once NS leaves. There is a point to my rant. Let CGM pave his own way. It is an absolutely unfair comparison. NS is NS and CGM is CGM. One thing about CGM was he has been able to coach two of the greatest players of all time in the SEC in D-Mac and Cam Newton. He has had the opportunity to coach at two top 25 programs early on in his career. Now he needs to make the most out of those opportunities. 

 

[GwillMac6 20,689]

3 minutes ago, DAG said:

 

We should quit comparing ourselves to the turds!

Let's compare Gus Malzhan resume to Nick Saban's.

AUF logic.

NS is the best coach of my generation. Let it go. CGM could become a great one if he got out of his own way. NS learned that along the way. NS didn't become a great coach overnight? No kidding. Micheal Jordan didn't become the best player in the NBA overnight either.  Took him several years to get to the NBA finals and about 4 years to make it pass the 1st round. I imagine you could find a stat, showing a legit player having better success than MJ early on. Heck, MJ didn't really get over the hump until he got the zen master and a wingman in Scottie Pippen. Does that devalue MJ status as the greatest? Nor should what NS did at LSU and Bama devalue his. Scottie Pippen had the exact same team that MJ had when he initially retired and they could not get to the finals, albeit close. Mysteriously MJ comes back and they are back to their winning ways. Likewise, I don't see anyone matching NS success at Bama anytime soon, including anyone coaching at LSU, tOSU, FSU, USC or whoever may be deemed the Alabama ball coach once NS leaves. There is a point to my rant. Let CGM pave his own way. It is an absolutely unfair comparison. NS is NS and CGM is CGM. One thing about CGM was he has been able to coach two of the greatest players of all time in the SEC in D-Mac and Cam Newton. He has had the opportunity to coach at two top 25 programs early on in his career. Now he needs to make the most out of those opportunities. 

 

is there a block button? I may have to sacrifice you if I ever see a whole post dedicated to frickin Michael Jeffrey Jordan again AKA the devil lol

[DAG 33,997]

1 minute ago, GwillMac6 said:

is there a block button? I may have to sacrifice you if I ever see a whole post dedicated to frickin Michael Jeffrey Jordan again AKA the devil lol

Haha fair enough

[lionheartkc 6,150]

15 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

The closest i see to Saban is Meyer...and he needs to pick it up a notch...:)

The Ohio State machine got smacked down by the NCAA.  Give it time, it will ramp back up again, unless Harbaugh stumbles on some damning evidence.  It's certainly getting there... after all, they lost their conference and are still in the play-offs over a team that they lost to.  If that isn't a page out of the bama playbook, I don't know what is.

[GwillMac6 20,689]

Meyer will pass Saban. he is 13 years younger in a easier conference and already has 3 titles of his own. Meyer is every bit as great as saban if not more.

[FoundationEagle 637]

1 hour ago, aucanucktiger said:

Nick Saban has one (1) undefeated season. Ever. Saban is still trying to beat us in a year when we won more than 8 games. He's tried and failed six times.

How about this one: Auburn has only played a NS coached team that had less than an 8 win season ONCE in fifteen tries...

[Tiger 8,829]

2 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

It will be really fun, one day, if the inner workings ever come to light. I wouldn't be surprised if it made SMU look like child's play.

It's going to be one hell of a 30 for 30 thats for damn sure

[PoetTiger 1,899]

52 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

exactly. gus has shown NOTHING to warrant anything close to full control.

One thing he has shown...when he has a QB his offenses have been pretty damn good if not great.The offense has only regressed with the mental collapse of JJ for 2014 and  when SW hurt his shoulder in Ole Miss game this year. I feel pretty confident once he gets his QB depth settled then the offense will have consistency even when if one guy goes down. As to the control aspect why not...whether full control or not he will be held accountable for the program...so at the end of the day it really does not matter. 

[abw0004 10,125]

1 hour ago, GwillMac6 said:

Good Lord. only the most sunshine of sunshine pumpers would try to craft a narrative to compare malzahn to saban in a favorable light...................

How is it crafting?  I did not leave out any statistics to skew it in anyones favor.  If you don't believe me you can do the research on your own, and still come up with the same results.  Every year he coached is up there with every statistic.  Facts are facts.  You can disagree with them all you want, but that won't change anything.

[DAG 33,997]

6 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

How is it crafting?  I did not leave out any statistics to skew it in anyones favor.  If you don't believe me you can do the research on your own, and still come up with the same results.  Every year he coached is up there with every statistic.  Facts are facts.  You can disagree with them all you want, but that won't change anything.

 

CGM has never coached at a program of MSU shape like NS has just like CGM has never coached at a program like bama. That right there skews your comparison.

[abw0004 10,125]

5 minutes ago, DAG said:

CGM has never coached at a program of MSU shape like NS has just like CGM has never coached at a program like bama. That right there skews your comparison.

In theory those two would cancel each other out if you think about it.  Nick Saban formed MSU from nothing, and then at Alabama was given everything.  Gus Malzahn was given a middle of the pack team coming off of a disastrous 2012 season.  Where Nick Saban was having to try and out-recruit Ohio State, Malzahn is having to out-recruit Alabama.  The needle still comes back to the middle of being skewed.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

8 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

In theory those two would cancel each other out if you think about it.  Nick Saban formed MSU from nothing, and then at Alabama was given everything.  Gus Malzahn was given a middle of the pack team coming off of a disastrous 2012 season.  Where Nick Saban was having to try and out-recruit Ohio State, Malzahn is having to out-recruit Alabama.  The needle still comes back to the middle of being skewed.

So you are saying MSU is like AU?

And if you think Gus wasn't given anything when he got to AU then I or anyone here can help you.  

[Timeslider 6 269]

1 hour ago, ArgoEagle said:

I feel that next year should be the year that Gus either takes us to the next level, or see if we can find someone who can. He has had 4 full years of recruiting; all the players on our next year's squad will have been recruited by Gus and his staff. He has had the same OC and made a significant improvement to the D by hiring coach KS and some key assistants on that side of the ball last year. In my estimation, taking into consideration that we have a qb coming in that is proven to be good on the playing field, Gus and Rhett should see that our weakness is our predictability on offense. We are a  run first offense and everybody in college football knows that especially the d-cords for the other teams. So when we play a team that can keep our run game from beating them, such as Bama and GA, we have to be able to be more balanced with a ligit throwing game that can also be a threat to beat an opposing team. If we don't scheme to that philosophy on O, then we can expect not to beat our arch rivals each year under Gus or anybody else. So to me the big question is: is Gus willing to make some significant changes in our O game plan to be a more balanced attack with a passing game, or is he too stubborn, and sticks with what we have done for the past 4 years?

This is the big question, will Gus adapt or will he continue to be stubborn and eventually be replaced?

[abw0004 10,125]

6 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

So you are saying MSU is like AU?

And if you think Gus wasn't given anything when he got to AU then I or anyone here can help you.  

Did you even read what I typed?  I never once said that.  See below.

18 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

In theory those two would cancel each other out if you think about it.  Nick Saban formed MSU from nothing, and then at Alabama was given everything.  Gus Malzahn was given a middle of the pack team coming off of a disastrous 2012 season.  Where Nick Saban was having to try and out-recruit Ohio State, Malzahn is having to out-recruit Alabama.  The needle still comes back to the middle of being skewed.

If I need to explain better for you, I was saying MSU was at the bottom when Saban arrived and did no have any tools to work with.  At Alabama he had everything at his disposal.  So with the two extremes, it evens out to neutral.  Gus was given a middle of the pack team coming off of a bad 2012.  And recruiting wise it was also a wash with who they had to compete against in-state.

[2010primetime 2]

Funny how other coaches are using Gus plays but he is Garbage lol! Yes he does some dummy reactions. But theirs not 1 school in the last 6 years outside of Bama that has been more reliavent than AUBURN. WDE!

[OnthePlains 2,014]

Just for the record and my own opinion, I am not saying ( and I don't think most clear thinking AU fans are) that Gus should be beating Saban every year or winning 4 nattys.  In fact, I think Gus can be a very successful coach at AU without ever winning a natty or even returning to the title game.  Win 9 or 10 most years, be .500 against uat and uga and compete for the SEC at least more often than not.  Avoid 3-9 disasters also.  Thats it. Thats all I'm asking. If any AU fan or fan of another school for that matter thinks someone can duplicate what saban has done they are nuts.  Saban found the perfect situation where he could recruit like he wants to, has support of the REC and a time where the NCAA has lost a lot of its power.  Perfect storm. 

[DAG 33,997]

52 minutes ago, 2010primetime said:

Funny how other coaches are using Gus plays but he is Garbage lol! Yes he does some dummy reactions. But theirs not 1 school in the last 6 years outside of Bama that has been more reliavent than AUBURN. WDE!

There hasn't been one single school more relevant than AU in the last six years besides bama?

[oracle79 3,569]

5 hours ago, steeleagle said:

He IS a great coach. (Just look at his turnover at OCs and he still is winning 99% of the time. He knows how to COACH his coaches too.

You just named the #1 job of a head coach.  That's why all the great NFL coaches have Coaching Trees.  Their assistants have learned under them and gone out to be a head coach on their on.  How many Saban assistants are now head coaches in the SEC?

[PoetTiger 1,899]

1 hour ago, Timeslider 6 said:

This is the big question, will Gus adapt or will he continue to be stubborn and eventually be replaced?

IMO...Gus just needs to get this QB depth thing settled out. So if an injury or QB does not perform up to expectations then the offense can still function without looking like a total train wreck. 

[AU64 10,122]

5 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

I think you misread what Bird was implying. 

Bama might backslide with the next coach, but the machine is in motion, so I would bet that the next coach will just step in and keep it going... until someone stops it by stopping the machine.  As I've said before, when he leaves, it's not like everyone around him is going to forget how he did things and stop doing them that way. The only twist could be that the next guy won't have the NCAA connections.

Gotta disagree....the "machine" was at bama long before Saban was hired....and the machine is what got most of the previous half dozen coaches hired....all of whom had some kind of connection to the school...or to the bear.    Could be that the "machine" actually worked negatively for a number of years......and NS has been pretty good at ignoring the machine and PTBs and has been able to get away with it because of his record.    When he is gone the PTBs will again be able to  start dabbling with the bama football again and exercising their influence.    

The next guy will indeed be expected to just take over and keep things rolling....will be on the "hot seat" almost from day #1.....and like most coaches who follow the "legend"....will probably have a short career at bama.   The NCs, the # of NFL players, etc....that belongs to NS and I can't see a coach being able to recruit based on what some other coach did at a school.   That said.....I can't wait to see if I'm correct....

[lionheartkc 6,150]

11 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Gotta disagree....the "machine" was at bama long before Saban was hired....and the machine is what got most of the previous half dozen coaches hired....all of whom had some kind of connection to the school...or to the bear.    Could be that the "machine" actually worked negatively for a number of years......and NS has been pretty good at ignoring the machine and PTBs and has been able to get away with it because of his record.    When he is gone the PTBs will again be able to  start dabbling with the bama football again and exercising their influence.    

The next guy will indeed be expected to just take over and keep things rolling....will be on the "hot seat" almost from day #1.....and like most coaches who follow the "legend"....will probably have a short career at bama.   The NCs, the # of NFL players, etc....that belongs to NS and I can't see a coach being able to recruit based on what some other coach did at a school.   That said.....I can't wait to see if I'm correct....

We're talking about a different machine... I'm talking about the machine that makes sure he gets the players he wants, that the NCAA stays away no matter how black & white the evidence, that there is always plenty of good press for bama and bad for their rivals, that their players can break pretty much any law and walk away, etc.

What you're talking about is the good ol' boy network, which is a problem, not a help, and something Auburn is still dealing with.

[augolf1716 21,221]

6 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

It will be really fun, one day, if the inner workings ever come to light. I wouldn't be surprised if it made SMU look like child's play.

Actually make it look like new born play. Nothing like it ever in the college football. Been that way for almost 50 years and seen it in action in person. Saban is the perfect coach for it as was Bear

[AU64 10,122]

2 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

Actually make it look like new born play. Nothing like it ever in the college football. Been that way for almost 50 years and seen it in action in person. Saban is the perfect coach for it as was Bear

Yes....but some people think it came into existence with Saban.....but 's  been around forever....with mixed results. NS and BB were perfect for it.....

[AUIH1 1,515]

5 hours ago, PoetTiger said:

Gus has been coaching all his life, I don't see him as training on the job. Saban has complete control at Bama. He answers to no one. Nobody. Makes things go a lot smoother for him. Not to mention he has the REC machine behind him to get certain things done when needed. Example... No way in hell Reuben Foster is a passing student on his own...

You do realize we had Foster bought and paid for before our bagman left right?  Foster is as much of a passing student as Nick Marshal was.

 

wde

[corchjay 5,311]

Recruiting!  That's the bottom line.  You give Gus 5 straight number 1 recruiting classes and he will win 3 championships as well.  It's almost hard to lose when every player you have is better then there opponent.  Has nothing to do with scheme.  Kirby Smart took the same scheme to UGA and look at the results.