Malzahn vs. Saban

[lionheartkc 6,150]

5 minutes ago, FoundationEagle said:

"Out of his playbook" simply means a play Auburn uses. Are these plays he designed himself and no one before ever ran them?  His offense got completely shut down by a guy who literally admitted he read a book on how to defend the Wing T to get his plan to stop Auburn.  That's revolutionary stuff lol. 

 

Correction:. he GOOGLED it!

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/9/5/12804152/brett-venables-clemson-auburn-wing-t-gus-malzahn

So you're saying Gus just takes plays from other coaches, yet everyone gives him credit for them when other teams run them.  Yea, that makes sense to me.

No one ever said the entire playbook was revolutionary, but he has developed a number of unique plays.  Oh yea... and an entire football philosophy that MANY teams have adopted... https://www.amazon.com/Hurry-Up-No-Huddle-Offensive-Philosophy/dp/1585186546

 

[bigbird 60,571]

16 minutes ago, keesler said:

Right now TODAY, who is the best college coach out there?

Urban, Shaw, or Harbough would all be over Saban IMO

[lionheartkc 6,150]

19 minutes ago, keesler said:

Right now TODAY, who is the best college coach out there?

Sporting News gave coach of the year to James Franklin...

[AUsince72 11,084]

@bigbird & @lionheartkc are spot on too (although it remains to be seen if Urban will quit on his team again once Harbaugh starts to own him).

To me, it's like this...

It's like the kid who works hard and buys his own used Mustang vs the rich kid who's daddy buys him a brand new Corvette.

Sure, I admit the Vette is superior but I'm more impressed with the kid who bought the Stang.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

8 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

@bigbird & @lionheartkc are spot on too (although it remains to be seen if Urban will quit on his team again once Harbaugh starts to own him).

To me, it's like this...

It's like the kid who works hard and buys his own used Mustang vs the rich kid who's daddy buys him a brand new Corvette.

Sure, I admit the Vette is superior but I'm more impressed with the kid who bought the Stang.

Good analogy 72.  I'd add that the Vette has an illegal NOS system.

[FoundationEagle 637]

24 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

So you're saying Gus just takes plays from other coaches, yet everyone gives him credit for them when other teams run them.  Yea, that makes sense to me.

No one ever said the entire playbook was revolutionary, but he has developed a number of unique plays.  Oh yea... and an entire football philosophy that MANY teams have adopted... https://www.amazon.com/Hurry-Up-No-Huddle-Offensive-Philosophy/dp/1585186546

 

Now that's good stuff there. Sam Wyche was running that in '83...

http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/content/stories/2013/09/12/sam-wyche-invented-no-huddle-offense-at-indiana-in-83.html

[AUsince72 11,084]

10 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Good analogy 72.  I'd add that the Vette has an illegal NOS system.

Per-Zactly!

[abw0004 10,125]

2 hours ago, keesler said:

I haven't been on this board much lately.....What's the chance of Gus making a change at OC?

In the wake of the IB and getting the invite to the Sugar, it seems like folks on here haven't pushed the Rhett replacement agenda as much as they were after the UGA flop and the UAT loss.

I think it is also because everyone knows Lashlee had a huge hand in landing Stidham.  Everyone is now happy we have the guy so it's hard to badmouth him.  

Its like at UGA when they fired Richt.  Everyone was FREAKING OUT about losing Jacob Eason.  A lot of UGA fans were saying just to keep Richt for one more year to ensure they kept Eason.  

But now that we have a top talent QB that is perfect for their system, I am curious to see if Gus and Lashlee can develop him further and make him into what we hope he can be. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 hour ago, FoundationEagle said:

Now that's good stuff there. Sam Wyche was running that in '83...

http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/content/stories/2013/09/12/sam-wyche-invented-no-huddle-offense-at-indiana-in-83.html

Wynche was running a no-huddle system. Malzahn literally wrote the book on the HUNH. 

Listen, I get that you don't like the guy, but you have to give him his due for the things he has accomplished.

[keesler 5,924]

1 minute ago, lionheartkc said:

Wynche was running a no-huddle system. Malzahn literally wrote the book on the HUNH. 

Listen, I get that you don't like the guy, but you have to give him his due for the things he has accomplished.

I don't think Gus has read his own book in quite a while. 

Remedial reading assignments are in order for Gus & Rhett during the off season.

[GwillMac6 20,689]

The worst season of Urban Meyers career was when he went 8-5 the last year he was at florida with john brantley at qb. I see the exact same problems now with gus trying to make it work with a pro style qb in a dual threat qb system that I saw back then with Urban trying to make it work with one. Urbs learned from his mistakes and has recruited and started only DT qbs since at ohio state. HOPEFULLY gus has learned from his disastrous mistakes that could of cost him his job and turns it around for good like urban did.

[FoundationEagle 637]

13 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Wynche was running a no-huddle system. Malzahn literally wrote the book on the HUNH. 

Listen, I get that you don't like the guy, but you have to give him his due for the things he has accomplished.

No huddle and HUNH are the same thing. The quotes below refer to his time in Cincinatti, years before Gus became a HS coach.  Just because they hadn't relabeled it "HUNH" yet didn't make it different.  Same exact principle  

 

"Fast-pace offenses have always occasionally been part of football. Wyche, however, was the first coach to use the no-huddle as a standard method of attack, rather than near the end of halves. He did so to keep defenses from substituting based on down and distance"

"

Such a ploy caused Wyche to recall Cincinnati’s 21-13 playoff win in 1988 when Seattle nose tackles Joe Nash and Ken Clarke fell down and grabbed their knees six times before third-down plays so substitutions could be made.

“Seattle had a coach on the sideline pretending to pull a trigger on a pistol,” Wyche said. “When he would shoot, Joe (Nash), who was standing up perfectly healthy after the previous play, would then drop.

“I went over to official Jerry Siemen and I said, ‘It always happens on third down. Can’t you figure this out?’ He said, ‘I’m not a doctor.’ I said, ‘Keep paying attention and you’re going to get your Ph.D. in medicine.'"

“It’s fun to watch, and most fans say that to you, too,” Wyche said. “They enjoy watching the fast pace. There’s 12 minutes of real-time action in a football game. Twelve minutes of entertainment and the rest is atmosphere. Well, we can double that 12 minutes easily.”

 

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, FoundationEagle said:

No huddle and HUNH are the same thing. The quotes below refer to his time in Cincinatti, years before Gus became a HS coach.  Just because they hadn't relabeled it "HUNH" yet didn't make it different.  Same exact principle

Same principle... different execution.

[FoundationEagle 637]

12 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Same principle... different execution.

How so?  Wyche claimed he could double the amount of plays run. I guess maybe Gus runs it slower?  Also, the HUNH has nothing to do with scheme, it has to with pace. Gus got his pace from Wyche and his plays from the Wing T.  We can give him credit for using some good philosophies rarely used at the time, but not for creating them. 

[DAG 33,997]

2 hours ago, bigbird said:

Urban, Shaw, or Harbough would all be over Saban IMO

Wow . Urban you can argue . The other two . No. Harbaugh actually has to win something first at the collegiate level .

 

Agree to disagree. Still my favorite poster BB.

[bigbird 60,571]

19 minutes ago, DAG said:

Wow . Urban you can argue . The other two . No. Harbaugh actually has to win something first at the collegiate level .

Look at what Harbough did turning it around at Stanford. He is a tremendous coach, as is Shaw. Put Saban at Stanford and he would look like he did at MSU and LSU. 

[GwillMac6 20,689]

2 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Look at what Harbough did turning it around at Stanford. He is a tremendous coach, as is Shaw. Put Saban at Stanford and he would look like he did at MSU and LSU. 

Harbaugh went to 3 straight nfc title games with alex smith and kaep. not exactly a who's who of great qbs. Kaep has fallen off a damn cliff without Harbaugh. harbaugh is a great coach. I know he has not won any hardware but wherever he goes he just wins. He turns around dormant programs and franchises. 

[AUsince72 11,084]

31 minutes ago, DAG said:

Wow . Urban you can argue . The other two . No. Harbaugh actually has to win something first at the collegiate level .

It's all subjective supposition, I know, but removing Emmert from the equation, do you really think Saban would be able to be so dominant at a left-wing, Egghead Univ instead of the Univ of Football 101?  Do you think he'd be better at Stanford than Harbaugh was? ...or Shaw for that matter?

[C'viewTiger 242]

3 hours ago, FoundationEagle said:

 

(7) He didn't invent the...he didn't invent the very basic slant route or hot route (THAT we rarely if ever use). There's pretty much his entire playbook.  

 

Heck, the only play I think we can truly give him credit for may be one of the worst plays in history...the TE WHIRLYBIRD! (He supposedly has a very thick playbook of drawn up plays...I suspect if the TE Whirlybird is any indication, we will never see them in live action)  "I would really like to say he didn't invent this one either but IDK.

 

[DAG 33,997]

29 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Look at what Harbough did turning it around at Stanford. He is a tremendous coach, as is Shaw. Put Saban at Stanford and he would look like he did at MSU and LSU. 

 

Saban won an NC at LSU, No? Everybody should want to look like that.  Kudos to what he did at Stanford but he hasn't won anything. I hope people do realize Saban was successful at MSU.He had is average years but he did bring them to a 9 win season, something they didn't accomplish in a very long time. It is not like he left them in the dumps. He also won at Toledo. So he has proven he can win at the power 5 and nonpower 5 conferences. Is Jim at UM? He needs to win something first before you can put him over Saban. Michigan has just as much pull as anyone with a ton of resources.

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

11 hours ago, metafour said:

You people talk as if they are blowing everyone else out in recruiting when the reality is that the battle for the #1 spot is incredibly close in most years, so while they continually land "#1 classes", its not like there aren't always the usual suspects right up there with them.  The difference has been the sustained consistency of Saban's program whereas those other schools have down years (or periods of down years) which bring their recruiting down.  Look at this year and notice that Ohio State actually has two more 5-stars committed and a stronger average rating (as does Georgia)...Alabama only sits "#1" because their class if almost full whereas OSU has 8 fewer commitments.

As I said before a lot of it has to do with ratings. But when they get the #1 rating each year by the recruiting sites, it does  push better recruits to want to be a part of it. In actuality they probably don't have a #1 class every year, but they are winning far more recruiting battles than others are. My point is nick is very good at working the system. He use the rec machine to it's fullest. You look at other schools even OSU, they get good classes but not every year. It is just not normal. Usually a good program might stay in the top ten but their numbers are out of whack.  And OSU probably won't pass them because the websites will just move uat's players up higher to keep uat on top, WDE

[DAG 33,997]

26 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

It's all subjective supposition, I know, but removing Emmert from the equation, do you really think Saban would be able to be so dominant at a left-wing, Egghead Univ instead of the Univ of Football 101?  Do you think he'd be better at Stanford than Harbaugh was? ...or Shaw for that matter?

 

 

First of all, You can't even put Shaw in this argument. Shaw never built a single thing. He took a legit Stanford team that Jim Harbaugh built and just utilized the same blueprint. Guess what? That is totally okay. You should use whatever aid you can to maintain a Succesful program. I am not going to take cool points away from him for that. However, he has never built anything. He never took on a program and left them better for the next person. Harbaugh and Saban both did that.  Now, could Saban have had the same success he had at Stanford that Harbaugh? I have no freaking clue. What I can say is everywhere that NS has gone, he has left that program for the better, much better than what he had to take on. Could Harbaugh win at Alabama like Saban has? Who knows. Saban in his second year won the SEC with Alabama, took them to a BCS bowl game, which they lost and won an NC his third year. Harbaugh is at UM now. They have lost to tOSU two years in a row now. He hasn't won a big ten championship yet. Will he win an NC next year? We will see. 

 

Quite frankly, if you are at certain schools Bama, UM, tOSU, Miami, USC, ND, etc...you should have some sort of dominance. Those schools have a pool of resources which allow you to do so. What I find interesting is before Saban got there, they weren't dominant haha. So what happened? Just the perfect storm?

[Tiger 8,829]

I'd rather have Urban Meyer as my coach than Nick Saban. And I football-hate Urban. Their recruiting ability is essentially equal IMO but I don't think Saban could've won a national title with a 3rd string QB even in the BCS era. Forget winning a title where he has to navigate through a conference championship game, a playoff game, and a national title game with his 3rd string QB.

 

Worst of luck to both of them though.

[ToomersStreet 795]

On 12/19/2016 at 11:40 AM, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

Auburn shouldn't be a training ground for any coach. IMO anyways. 

Tell that to Jacobs.

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

3 hours ago, FoundationEagle said:

"Out of his playbook" simply means a play Auburn uses. Are these plays he designed himself and no one before ever ran them?  His offense got completely shut down by a guy who literally admitted he read a book on how to defend the Wing T to get his plan to stop Auburn.  That's revolutionary stuff lol. 

 

Correction:. he GOOGLED it!

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/9/5/12804152/brett-venables-clemson-auburn-wing-t-gus-malzahn

In case you were not aware, Venables Lies a lot he probably never read squat and if he did he would not understand it. He also did not shut down Gus's offense , Gus did with the stupid QB rotation. Clemson was very lucky to win the game. I think they are by far the weakest team in the playoff. I would wager that Gus will clean his plow next year. WDE