Florida - Postgame

[AU64 10,122]

53 minutes ago, ArgoEagle said:

I blamed the OM loss on BP b/c of his strategy in the first 5 minutes of the second half against them. This one you just have to say that the better, more experienced team won & give it up to Florida. I am not a sunshine pumper, but look at the potential we have. Most of the time we are at least playing 3 freshmen and are holding our own with good veteran teams like Florida. Just imagine if and when these guys learn to play defense and shoot free throws better; then where will we be? I believe next year we will be starting to cement ourselves in the upper half of the SEC. Meanwhile as for this year I believe we are a solid NIT team and can do a little damage in that tourney.

Not sure the issue is "learning" to play defense....seems to me it's more about wanting to play defense.  Too much standing around, not protecting the baseline and leaving the lane open.   Too many instances of no defense inside...or getting there late and fouling on their shooting attempts.  But as you note...there is lots to learn ......in addition to putting forth more effort.  

[GwillMac6 20,684]

2 hours ago, tigerbrotha12 said:

Remember what happened to that team at the end of the regular season though? They completely fell off. Lost home games, got blown out in away games- just couldn't do anything the last 5-6 games. Yes they had heart in the tourney when they started to believe, but they gave up for a little bit of the season. 

Culture is being changed- remember when we had to whine about only 11 wins? Now we're whining about what could be around 18 or 19 and a possible post-season birth. Culture changing...

I do not think that team ever gave up honestly. They just for better or worse were one of the least talented sec basketball teams I have seen fielded in a long time. Even Lsu and Mizzou from this year who are cellar dwellers I would say has more talent on their rosters then that AU team has.

[ArgoEagle 1,788]

43 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Not sure the issue is "learning" to play defense....seems to me it's more about wanting to play defense.  Too much standing around, not protecting the baseline and leaving the lane open.   Too many instances of no defense inside...or getting there late and fouling on their shooting attempts.  But as you note...there is lots to learn ......in addition to putting forth more effort.  

There is a simple equation to solving that problem. Less effort = more bench time

[aubaseball 2,622]

I believe what some don't seem to understand is that AU is probably the worst basketball  program in the SEC from a historical standpoint.  As far back as I started paying attention, save for a few years in the 80's, a couple in late 90's and maybe one or two in early 2000's, AU is a cellar dweller in the SEC.   only one final eight appearance ever.

[FoundationEagle 637]

1 hour ago, GwillMac6 said:

do you honestly think I really thought he coached at kentucky? clearly a mis type you took advantage of to make me look like a buffoon and point it out. Is that really all you took with what I said? Come on man. There was a lot of stuff I wrote in my paragraph and you only got a couple of words out of it? I guess thanks? Now I can go back and edit my post. SO there is that! WOOOOO........ War Damn Eagle anyways!

Lol. All he did was point out that BP didn't coach at KY. Your reaction to his post is quite extreme compared to his reaction to yours IMO. No need to get all worked up. 

[AU64 10,122]

1 minute ago, aubaseball said:

I believe what some don't seem to understand is that AU is probably the worst basketball  program in the SEC from a historical standpoint.  As far back as I started paying attention, save for a few years in the 80's, a couple in late 90's and maybe one or two in early 2000's, AU is a cellar dweller in the SEC.   only one final eight appearance ever.

I think you are being too hard on the program....granted we have not been a national power but over the times you mention Sonny Smith and Cliff Ellis among others had some pretty good teams and some very good players... We have been a middle of the road team for the most part...with overall records that more or less match Florida, Georgia, Miss State, Ole Miss ...you can look at the AU archives to confirm.  Our worst periods seem to follow after Ellis was fired...leaving his successor with no talent and some scholarship losses...and from which he did not recover. AU spent a small fortune on a stare of the art arena and went out on a limb to hire a big name coach (despites some baggage)  in hopes the program can get turned around....not much else the school can do.   

[steeleagle 2,945]

46 minutes ago, ArgoEagle said:

There is a simple equation to solving that problem. Less effort = more bench time

If you watched last night. At the start of the second half, tied at 50, FL had 3 straight trips where they had 2 layups and 1 fastbreak dunk. Pearl immediately called TO after only 1-2 mins gone in second half and replaced Harper, Dunnans and WIley because they didnt hustle and defense was terrible.

So Pearl tried to change up his poor defensive play, with other players, but i notice over many of these games that there are 2 issues here. We simply do not play intensive D for 40 mins, with the players that are out there. Most of our best players are very good on offense and poor mechanically on D, and with their effort too.

I can only hope that with a year in the off season that Pearl MAKES them better players on the Defensive side, and that some of the new incoming players are better defenders too.

Only someone here that knows the Xs and Os can tell us if scheme and defensive preparation is part of our problem, or with what i see, there simply is a lack of want to and intensity on the defensive side in most cases, as someone posted on here too. 

[boomstick 1,315]

2 hours ago, ArgoEagle said:

There is a simple equation to solving that problem. Less effort = more bench time

Bruce is benching players for lack of effort. That method just doesn't always work. IMO the players have to become smarter. They have to understand defense better, have to understand what the offense is trying to do better. They have to become more disciplined with their eyes and feet and use their bodies and hands far less often. They have to know when to apply pressure, when to be aggressive, how to communicate screens better, how to deny the pass without overcommitting, who to close out on and who to give space. We just aren't a smart team, and I think that's true on both ends. Some of our defensive issues are the result of poor decisions on the offensive end and could be helped if we avoided taking ill-advised shots. But again, that's something the players have to consciously understand and think through.

[ArgoEagle 1,788]

2 minutes ago, boomstick said:

Bruce is benching players for lack of effort. That method just doesn't always work. IMO the players have to become smarter. They have to understand defense better, have to understand what the offense is trying to do better. They have to become more disciplined with their eyes and feet and use their bodies and hands far less often. They have to know when to apply pressure, when to be aggressive, how to communicate screens better, how to deny the pass without overcommitting, who to close out on and who to give space. We just aren't a smart team, and I think that's true on both ends. Some of our defensive issues are the result of poor decisions on the offensive end and could be helped if we avoided taking ill-advised shots. But again, that's something the players have to consciously understand and think through.

Your points are accurate, but so is mine. I have played a lot of bball in my years and I've always observed that the fastest way to get a player's attention who really wants to play a lot is to bench them when they are not giving effort.

[GwillMac6 20,684]

2 hours ago, FoundationEagle said:

Lol. All he did was point out that BP didn't coach at KY. Your reaction to his post is quite extreme compared to his reaction to yours IMO. No need to get all worked up. 

he always does this. he comes in smug as a rug and corrects people like his is our middle school english teacher. I hate one uppers. I hate know it alls.

[boomstick 1,315]

Just now, ArgoEagle said:

Your points are accurate, but so is mine. I have played a lot of bball in my years and I've always observed that the fastest way to get a player's attention who really wants to play a lot is to bench them when they are not giving effort.

I agree. It worked on me. But I don't think it's working on the current group of players. They know they're in the rotation, and they don't think Bruce will sit them for entire games because they know Bruce needs them to have a chance to win. And they're right. Bruce can't bench them for an entire game and hope to win without them. We aren't that deep.

[AU64 10,122]

18 minutes ago, boomstick said:

I agree. It worked on me. But I don't think it's working on the current group of players. They know they're in the rotation, and they don't think Bruce will sit them for entire games because they know Bruce needs them to have a chance to win. And they're right. Bruce can't bench them for an entire game and hope to win without them. We aren't that deep.

We are as deep as most teams...what it appears is that we have a passive-aggressive mutiny or something.   I accept (from watching the games) that sitting a player seems to do no apparent good...nor apparently preaching to them about the issue.  Otherwise, how does a team come out to start the second half in an important game with a lead or in a tie game...and just wander around on defense and let the opponent blow them away?   

[boomstick 1,315]

2 minutes ago, AU64 said:

We are as deep as most teams...what it appears is that we have a passive-aggressive mutiny or something.   I accept (from watching the games) that sitting a player seems to do no apparent good...nor apparently preaching to them about the issue.  Otherwise, how does a team come out to start the second half in an important game with a lead or in a tie game...and just wander around on defense and let the opponent blow them away?   

Yeah, it kinda feels like they have the ignore button on. Don't know if it's frustrations with the game or teammates or coaches, but we definitely get some glazed over looks from players. 

On being flat in the second halves, we seem to lose so much emotion at halftime, like the energy and effort it took to stay in the game or build the leads took everything out of us. It's really confusing. 

[Charhair 345]

I don't know if it's because the team got used to relying one a 20-25 point outing with one of the freshmen or Dunnans or a lack of options for when they aren't scoring but we don't have that same second half burst we were getting in some of our better wins. 

I think this next recruiting class will help a lot. (Dunnans will be hard to replace for sure but I'm assuming we keep everyone else). Having roughly the same starting 5 as we've had in some games this year and being able to go to Spencer/Purifoy/McLemore (depending on the starters) as well as Davion, Chuma and others will give us a lot more options for when our starters hit a rut. 

But I watched the way we played that first half against a team most are expecting in the sweet 16 and couldn't complain about much of anything except the kid named Canyon and hope that's what we are capable of when Bruce has "his team". Once we get tired and can't use his favorable lineups as well, we slow down (second half). Once he can sub in the next top 100 kid for a tired starter, we won't see that as much. We also won't see tired starters every much. That's what I hope I'm seeing. I'm optimistic because of how much I love the sport and want auburn to contend. But I've always respected the hell outta coach Pearl too, I loved his UTk teams and was very happy about the AU hire. So that may be some biased confidence but I once again reference what Bruce said before the season. It was something along the lines of "I've finally got the ground floor in for what I want this program to be. I know everyone is anxious and this will be the year you start to see wins. I don't think we'll put it all together but we will start winning most of the games we should." 

And we have long surpassed last years win total. We've lost a few bad ones, that we should have won, but thats what we've all been expecting. I think most of us were hoping for a uk, scar or UF type win in a surprising upset but we have still played good against most of them (in the first halves anyway). 

[auburn4ever 1,266]

I blame the players and coaches for giving up 114 points to Florida or to anyone else for that matter. Also, if your up by 23 to OM and you get beat, then everyone needs to run stadium steps for an hour or two without stopping.

[steeleagle 2,945]

1 minute ago, auburn4ever said:

I blame the players and coaches for giving up 114 points to Florida or to anyone else for that matter. Also, if your up by 23 to OM and you get beat, then everyone needs to run stadium steps for an hour or two without stopping.

Including Pearl? Now remember he is in his 50s and stadium steps could cost us a HC..))

[steeleagle 2,945]

2 hours ago, Charhair said:

I don't know if it's because the team got used to relying one a 20-25 point outing with one of the freshmen or Dunnans or a lack of options for when they aren't scoring but we don't have that same second half burst we were getting in some of our better wins. 

I think this next recruiting class will help a lot. (Dunnans will be hard to replace for sure but I'm assuming we keep everyone else). Having roughly the same starting 5 as we've had in some games this year and being able to go to Spencer/Purifoy/McLemore (depending on the starters) as well as Davion, Chuma and others will give us a lot more options for when our starters hit a rut. 

But I watched the way we played that first half against a team most are expecting in the sweet 16 and couldn't complain about much of anything except the kid named Canyon and hope that's what we are capable of when Bruce has "his team". Once we get tired and can't use his favorable lineups as well, we slow down (second half). Once he can sub in the next top 100 kid for a tired starter, we won't see that as much. We also won't see tired starters every much. That's what I hope I'm seeing. I'm optimistic because of how much I love the sport and want auburn to contend. But I've always respected the hell outta coach Pearl too, I loved his UTk teams and was very happy about the AU hire. So that may be some biased confidence but I once again reference what Bruce said before the season. It was something along the lines of "I've finally got the ground floor in for what I want this program to be. I know everyone is anxious and this will be the year you start to see wins. I don't think we'll put it all together but we will start winning most of the games we should." 

And we have long surpassed last years win total. We've lost a few bad ones, that we should have won, but thats what we've all been expecting. I think most of us were hoping for a uk, scar or UF type win in a surprising upset but we have still played good against most of them (in the first halves anyway). 

Dunnans plays way too much street ball for me. Yes he has great skills, and turns heads with his ability to create shots on drives, tip a ball away, dish off for a sweet dunk. But he's also good for not playing smart D, or being so dribble conscious that he creates a TO or forces a bad pass inside because he has no other place to go with the ball that deep in.

I think they need him because he does create...but I think he is so inconsistent, it disrupts our flows on offense and defense too much.

I do take exception to the 'tired' reference. We have more depth than we have had in 10 years, and it is also quality depth. I think the problem is simply he can't find the right combinations that play good or great D, and still run good offensive sets.

To see how they came out the second half yesterday was so puzzling since we looked like most of them had taken a nap during half time. And FL is way to good in their offense for us to take off a play or too. WHen we did FL would score 6-8 points in a row. 

FL has the 5th best D in the country, and we scored 50 at half, and cclose to that the second half. But our D was so weak and non aggressive at times, that we couldnt maintain in the second half...

[FoundationEagle 637]

3 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

he always does this. he comes in smug as a rug and corrects people like his is our middle school english teacher. I hate one uppers. I hate know it alls.

Hate?  Strong words. Not worth it. 

[augolf1716 21,196]

10 hours ago, AuburnNTexas said:

First of all Florida is a very good team because both teams play fast paced frenetic basketball this was always going to be a high scoring game. They have a lot of upperclassmen with a mixture of young players.  Last year at this time with basically the same team Florida folded down the stretch a years more experience makes a big difference. At the beginning of the year we scored points but it was all one on one drive and score or jack up a 3. As the season has gone on our overall O has improved more ball movement (yes we have times we revert back to one on one) more scoring by passing or driving inside and scoring there or passing out to an open 3 point shooter. We are playing much better team ball on offense than at the beginning of the season.

As the balance of the season goes on and as we go into pre-season next year with so many returning players there won't need to be as much emphasis on offense and I expect you will see more emphasis on defense and rebounding. We still have an outside chance for the NIT which would be great as it will allow a few more games to work on issues in a game type environment.

While I am a bit of a sunshine pumper there were multiple people like Cole who know basketball who pretty much predicted how this season would go with this young of a team. They will be better next year. If you look at the record this year with just a slight improvement this team makes the NCAA. Better times are ahead. Unless something changes the only key contributor's we lose after this year are Dunans and Johnson and we have a couple of freshman coming in  Davion Mitchell and Chuma Okeke who have the potential to be better than them.

well said

[GwillMac6 20,684]

38 minutes ago, FoundationEagle said:

Hate?  Strong words. Not worth it. 

lol hate one uppers not the person just when they do that! I am over it LeBron is on tv so I am a happy person again. WOOOOO!!! you with me eagle?

[AU64 10,122]

Funny ....after AU and UF were 50-50 at the half....I just checked the bama at mizz game and it was 23-18 at start of the 2nd half...one or both of them might not make it to 50 at that rate....talk about a yawner.....can see why the arena is about empty. ....and mizz is leading...

[milehighfan 1,240]

On 2/14/2017 at 7:36 PM, mustache eagle said:

Duke and fsu are the only teams to score in the 80's against Florida - 84 and 83.  Both losses for Florida.  ... and then we score 95?!

crazy!

Yeah, but Auburn gave up, what, 114? It doesn't really matter how many you score if you never stop the other team from scoring. I have to be honest, I didn't watch the game I thought it came on tonight. Turns out I didn't miss anything except another Auburn loss.

[aucanucktiger 1,794]

History (e.g. UT) shows ole Bruce is spectacular at developing scoring machines - less data supports his defensive focus. There are no DC's in basketball so if we hire the Gus Malzahn of basketball get ready for some high scoring games - win or lose. (Remember losing an Ironbowl where we put up 44 against the nations #1? Ouch! Bye bye Ellis Johnson but can't do that so easily in basketball. But hey, now I can wear my "Auburn Fast" shirt during roundball season too! ) 

[Tiger 8,827]

We are still going to be undersized minus Wiley next season. Rebounding will still be an issue but what I'm most concerned about is our lone senior will be TJ Lang. Ronnie Johnson off the bench saved us so many times this year when we needed a steady hand to calm the guys down which was so important especially at the PG spot. Dunans, for all the criticism he takes on here also has been so key for us this year when he's playing under control and not settling for jumpers. Next year it will be Harper and Mitchell. We are going to need Harper to become consistent in a hurry because behind him will be a true freshman and our most experienced players will be Horace and Bryce Brown neither of whom are the models of consistency. Of course all the returning players I mentioned have the opportunity to grow into more mature players.

I see in our incoming class Wiley was the lone big. Are we going to try to add another big man? I'm wondering what our thinking is on that. We seem to have our PGs for the forseeable future, Bruce will always be able to recruit wing players, but we need some big man help badly. I'd think we have at least 3-4 more wins if we weren't putrid on the defensive glass.

[Tiger 8,827]

Not a big Scarbinsky guy but his article from yesterday was spot on IMO...Also this was me when reading we've only had 9 20 win seasons in OUR HISTORY:  

I'll try to paste the article since it's A*.com but forgive me if formatting is wonky (http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2017/02/bruce_pearl_should_be_happy_so.html?platform=hootsuite) 

 

Bruce Pearl should be happy today. No, seriously.

Not about losing to Florida 114-95 Tuesday night. Or watching the Gators set their own school record for points in an SEC game. Or giving up 60-plus points in the second half for the third straight game.

No, the Auburn basketball coach shouldn't be happy at all about any of those unflattering facts, and he isn't.

As a glass-half-full guy, though, Pearl should be thrilled about a larger point. His third Auburn team is 16-10, and some people are disappointed. Dissatisfied. On their way to disgusted if the Tigers don't play some second-half defense sometime soon.

Never mind that Auburn hadn't won as many as 16 games in an entire season since 2009 and had only reached that number twice in the previous 13 years. Or that the red-hot Gators beat Kentucky by a larger margin 10 days earlier. Or that Auburn hasn't beaten Florida in the regular season since 1999.

Auburn fans and neutral observers alike now have actual expectations for what has been over time, with rare exceptions, one of the worst programs in the history of SEC basketball.

That's what you call real progress.

A record of 16-10 is a bit of a letdown from a team that was 16-8 and had a 23-point lead early in the second half Saturday of what looked like it would be victory No. 17 at Ole Miss. How did the players and coaches respond to their own personal dejection after their performance?
They jumped out to a quick lead against Florida, watched the Gators surge back and ahead and then forged a 50-50 halftime tie. The truly competitive portion of the evening didn't last long into the second half, which was the latest indication Auburn has improved but not arrived.

The difference between team and program is a key distinction to make in considering where the Tigers are as they head down the stretch of Pearl's third season on the Plains. This team is Auburn's best team since 2009, and it's not even close, but it's had opportunities - both losses to Ole Miss stand out - to put together an even better record.

The feeling that a team getting more scoring from its freshmen than anyone in the country but Kentucky could be better than 16-10 overall and should be better than 5-8 in the SEC is refreshing. It's a reflection of the faith people have in Pearl and his rookie class.

As painful to watch as their defense has been, as much room for improvement as there is on that side of the ball, ask yourself these questions: Does Auburn sign skilled scorers such as Mustapha Heron if Pearl doesn't give his players real offensive freedom? Did he win big at Tennessee based primarily on scoring points or stopping them?

The Vols led the SEC in scoring offense four times in Pearl's six years there. They never led the league in scoring defense.

It's gotten lost in the quick, ill-advised shots and poor transition defense of the last three second halves, but for every legitimate gripe about this team, there's a reasonable comeback.

The Tigers did give up more points to Florida than they had to anyone since 1994. They also scored more points against the Gators than Gonzaga, Duke, Kentucky or anyone else on the schedule.

Auburn is No. 322 in the nation - out of 351 Division I program - in points allowed this season. Auburn also is No. 37 in the nation in points scored.

Auburn is still searching for a 17th victory to guarantee its first winning season in eight years, but look at the remaining games - at Texas A&M, at LSU, home against Arkansas, at Georgia and home against Missouri - and not one seems out of reach.

That hasn't always been the case for this program. If these Tigers can scratch out four more wins, they'll be just the 10th team in school history to get to 20 victories. If they close by winning four of the last five, they'll be just the fifth Auburn team to win 20 games in the regular season.

That's not likely, but the definition of what's possible for Auburn basketball has changed. As a program, the Tigers have a foundation and a pulse that's been lacking for years.

They also have a new set of expectations. The next challenge for Pearl and company is to meet those expectations. It would be foolish to doubt their ability to get it done.