Socialists Pushing Dems Further Left

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Bernie is getting up steam and getting support from some flakes like Ocasio-Cortez. I hope moderate Dems are concerned with this and get the party back more to center.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/18/socialists-working-from-within-to-push-democratic-party-further-left.html

[AU64 10,122]

17 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Bernie is getting up steam and getting support from some flakes like Ocasio-Cortez. I hope moderate Dems are concerned with this and get the party back more to center.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07/18/socialists-working-from-within-to-push-democratic-party-further-left.html

I sure hope so....lots of urban Dems just pull the rooster lever without much idea of the party platform and if Bernie's wing is able to gain control of the party, it's likely that he can push the party further left.   That win in NY is a possible indication that the move is serious. 

Also  seems that most of the current dem leadership is very old....Nancy, Barbara , Bernie, Hillary, ..and I'm not sure if there is a moderate wing with younger leaders who will be able slow the move leftward....but will be interesting to see if someone emerges during or after the 2018 elections. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

3 minutes ago, AU64 said:

I sure hope so....lots of urban Dems just pull the rooster lever without much idea of the party platform and if Bernie's wing is able to gain control of the party, it's likely that he can push the party further left.   That win in NY is a possible indication that the move is serious. 

Also  seems that most of the current dem leadership is very old....Nancy, Barbara , Bernie, Hillary, ..and I'm not sure if there is a moderate wing with younger leaders who will be able slow the move leftward....but will be interesting to see if someone emerges during or after the 2018 elections. 

The blind spot in this post could block out the sun.

[aubiefifty 16,798]

big corporations pay no taxes and yet get billions in corporate welfare from the government. for what? giving those screwing the country seems to be ok with the right while taking care of the truly needy is a dirty commie plot. i guess jesus was a commie as well then huh? i cannot wait until ALL the facts come out so some of you can enjoy your crow as karma takes it's course.

[AU64 10,122]

3 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

The blind spot in this post could block out the sun.

Tell me more.....I just respond to what I see in the news......so give me your view and where I'm misinterpreting things. 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

3 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

big corporations pay no taxes and yet get billions in corporate welfare from the government. for what? giving those screwing the country seems to be ok with the right while taking care of the truly needy is a dirty commie plot. i guess jesus was a commie as well then huh? i cannot wait until ALL the facts come out so some of you can enjoy your crow as karma takes it's course.

Bro what’re you even talking about other than you oppose corporate tax breaks? Yeesh. SAD!!

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

32 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Tell me more.....I just respond to what I see in the news......so give me your view and where I'm misinterpreting things. 

Just like lots of urban voters are straight ticket dems, lots of rural and smaller town voters are straight ticket Rs without any thought.  Also, the Republican party has been further to the right in the last decade, largely thanks to the Tea Party movement.  Moderate Republicans are being pushed aside each new cycle in favor of more extreme candidates.  The 2016 Presidential primaries are a great example of that, but others like Cruz and the House Freedom Caucus started that trend back in 2010.

Finally, look at the age of Republican leadership.  Trump is 72 (oldest man ever elected President).  McConnell is 76.  Pence is relatively young at 59, but he ain't a spring chicken either.  John Cornyn, the #2 in the Senate, is 66.  The youngest leader, Ryan (48), is retiring at the end of the year.

The old guard are the one's driving this country to the extremes.

[AU64 10,122]

9 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

ots of rural and smaller town voters are straight ticket Rs without any though

Throughout the south most smaller towns and rural areas are still Democrat....especially where there are large minority populations.   Automatic GOP seem to be mostly in flyover country and middle sized cities.  And considering the way the Dems control just about every major urban area already, I don't see the dems losing any votes no matter how far left they go.... 

The Tea Party is less than 10 years old and has not had much luck getting it's candidates elected....and probably have helped keep some dems in office by putting forth some candidates who were unelectable in a general election.   JMO but I think you over-state their influence and impact....other than they will generally go to the polls on election day.   

As for the "leaders you named".....mostly they got there because of the seniority system in Congress.....and I can tell you there is a significant difference between being 59 and 78 or 80 in terms of vigor..   These people like McConnell and Cornyn might be leaders in Washington but they are not leaders of the party and when's the last time you saw them speak on behalf of a DT or GOP supported issue.  

In my view, what really matters in terms of future party leadership is who the governors are and who holds the legislatures.   The  GOP has 33 governors and the Dems 16 …    It's been  proved more than once that well known House members like Ryan have no national or even statewide appeal and are not in a position to provide national leadership ….and old farts like McConnel are mostly just trying to walk the tight wire and hold onto their lucrative and prestigious jobs.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

11 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Throughout the south most smaller towns and rural areas are still Democrat....especially where there are large minority populations.   Automatic GOP seem to be mostly in flyover country and middle sized cities.  And considering the way the Dems control just about every major urban area already, I don't see the dems losing any votes no matter how far left they go.... 

The Tea Party is less than 10 years old and has not had much luck getting it's candidates elected....and probably have helped keep some dems in office by putting forth some candidates who were unelectable in a general election.   JMO but I think you over-state their influence and impact....other than they will generally go to the polls on election day.   

As for the "leaders you named".....mostly they got there because of the seniority system in Congress.....and I can tell you there is a significant difference between being 59 and 78 or 80 in terms of vigor..   These people like McConnell and Cornyn might be leaders in Washington but they are not leaders of the party and when's the last time you saw them speak on behalf of a DT or GOP supported issue.  

In my view, what really matters in terms of future party leadership is who the governors are and who holds the legislatures.   The  GOP has 33 governors and the Dems 16 …    It's been  proved more than once that well known House members like Ryan have no national or even statewide appeal and are not in a position to provide national leadership ….and old farts like McConnel are mostly just trying to walk the tight wire and hold onto their lucrative and prestigious jobs.

McConnell should have a statue at the GOP national office.  The man hand delivered two Supreme Court nominations to the Republicans.  He doesn't speak as much as he acts, which is very much party leadership.

Also, the Tea Party absolutely has had and still does wield major influence.  Look at how many bills have been shut down in the HoR because the Freedom Caucus wouldn't budge on an issue to meet moderate Republicans somewhere in the middle.  They have just enough votes to derail a lot of moderate agenda items.  And remember when Ted Cruz single-handedly caused a government shutdown?  Yeah, that part of the GOP definitely has power.

[AU64 10,122]

9 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

McConnell should have a statue at the GOP national office.  The man hand delivered two Supreme Court nominations to the Republicans.  He doesn't speak as much as he acts, which is very much party leadership.

Also, the Tea Party absolutely has had and still does wield major influence.  Look at how many bills have been shut down in the HoR because the Freedom Caucus wouldn't budge on an issue to meet moderate Republicans somewhere in the middle.  They have just enough votes to derail a lot of moderate agenda items.  And remember when Ted Cruz single-handedly caused a government shutdown?  Yeah, that part of the GOP definitely has power.

As for Mitch....not sure he "delivered" those nominations.....managed to get them through by skin of his teeth and barely won his last election....and dang sure has not helped anyone else in his party get elected.   Leadership in Washington DC is where the majority leader tells everyone how to vote and anyone who does not toe the line will find him or herself on the most insignificant committees imaginable.    Chuck and Nancy P and Diane rule with an iron hand and no one deviates from the official party line without their approval.  

Regarding the TP and Cruz....I see them the same way....they have power and influence....but in my view that is not the same thing as leadership.  Mostly they can obstruct....they rarely lead on anything......and best I can recall they have offered nothing important that has become law and their W-L record is not that impressive for individual races and they don't have the ability to persuade their fellow legislators. 

[aubiefifty 16,798]

1 hour ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Bro what’re you even talking about other than you oppose corporate tax breaks? Yeesh. SAD!!

pretty sure commies have everything given to them right? bad right? but give the same thing to corps and that is not the same thing? how do they deserve that when they turn billions in profit and pay no taxes? is it not fair to call that corporate communism? or maybe those kickbacks tend to discourage those in power to do the right thing. i am still waiting on bone spurs to do something. did he?

[aubiefifty 16,798]

maybe i should have said corporate welfare  but since the left is often called out as commie i decided to use the word. i agree 64 it gives me a sad face too.

[AU64 10,122]

Sources of Federal income....   https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/revenues/

Corporations paid about $350 Billion...……. though some economists might point out that corporations don't actually pay taxes....they just collect the money from their customers and pass it along to the Federal government. 

Interesting however that Amazon, mostly owned by the democrat supporter managed to avoid paying income taxes though he was only doing what the tax laws allowed. Though he likely paid a serious amount of income tax on his earnings from Amazon.....kind of a double taxation.  

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

19 minutes ago, AU64 said:

As for Mitch....not sure he "delivered" those nominations.....managed to get them through by skin of his teeth and barely won his last election....and dang sure has not helped anyone else in his party get elected.   Leadership in Washington DC is where the majority leader tells everyone how to vote and anyone who does not toe the line will find him or herself on the most insignificant committees imaginable.    Chuck and Nancy P and Diane rule with an iron hand and no one deviates from the official party line without their approval.  

Regarding the TP and Cruz....I see them the same way....they have power and influence....but in my view that is not the same thing as leadership.  Mostly they can obstruct....they rarely lead on anything......and best I can recall they have offered nothing important that has become law and their W-L record is not that impressive for individual races and they don't have the ability to persuade their fellow legislators. 

Mitch delivered them by not allowing Garland to even have a vote.  Has nothing to do with whether he sheparded Gorsuch through.

And the TP and Cruz's ability obstruct is exactly the problem for Rs, in the same way extreme left folks like Waters do stupid stuff for the Ds.  It leaves nowhere for those who want to work together to go.

[AU64 10,122]

1 hour ago, Brad_ATX said:

Mitch delivered them by not allowing Garland to even have a vote.  Has nothing to do with whether he sheparded Gorsuch through.

And the TP and Cruz's ability obstruct is exactly the problem for Rs, in the same way extreme left folks like Waters do stupid stuff for the Ds.  It leaves nowhere for those who want to work together to go.

True..forgot about that...but that was pre-DT.....since his re-election MM has not been much help...JMO....does not like DT....which is OK with me but not doing the current administration's agenda much good either.   Again....looking for leadership....who's gonna speak for the parties and put forth whatever vision they want to present to voters.   

The recent slogan "For the People"     who came up with that and what does it mean in the way of policy initiatives…?  And who besides Bernie on the national stage has put forth a list of things he or she would do if elected. ?    Is Bernie the leader of the Democrat Party now?   a guy who was not even a member of the party before he tried to run for President. ..and even now is generally not listed among Democrats.    

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

9 minutes ago, AU64 said:

True..forgot about that...but that was pre-DT.....since his re-election MM has not been much help...JMO....does not like DT....which is OK with me but not doing the current administration's agenda much good either.   Again....looking for leadership....who's gonna speak for the parties and put forth whatever vision they want to present to voters.   

The recent slogan "For the People"     who came up with that and what does it mean in the way of policy initiatives…?  And who besides Bernie on the national stage has put forth a list of things he or she would do if elected. ?    Is Bernie the leader of the Democrat Party now?   a guy who was not even a member of the party before he tried to run for President. ..and even now is generally not listed among Democrats.    

Yeah, I don't consider Bernie to part of the Democratic party.  As you mentioned, he's not even listed as a Dem.  Still there as an independent, even though he caucus's with the Dems.

I think the future of the party is someone like Beto O'Rourke here in Texas.  He's giving Cruz a race for the Senate seat, although Cruz will still win because Texas.  Guy is smart, relatively moderate, and appeals to a lot of suburban voters.  You can't be too extreme and even be competitive in a state-wide race here.

[homersapien 11,379]

15 hours ago, AU64 said:

True..forgot about that...but that was pre-DT.....since his re-election MM has not been much help...JMO....does not like DT....which is OK with me but not doing the current administration's agenda much good either.   Again....looking for leadership....who's gonna speak for the parties and put forth whatever vision they want to present to voters.   

The recent slogan "For the People"     who came up with that and what does it mean in the way of policy initiatives…?  And who besides Bernie on the national stage has put forth a list of things he or she would do if elected. ?    Is Bernie the leader of the Democrat Party now?   a guy who was not even a member of the party before he tried to run for President. ..and even now is generally not listed among Democrats.    

I'll, take a stab at that.  (I am assuming you are referring to it in the context of a political slogan and not the constitution). 

Recent Republican policies - in particular the Trump tax cut - benefit the top 5- 10% of wealth owners in our society.  The rest of Americans - the 90% - have been falling behind in wealth generation for a few decades now, and current policies are just accentuating that divide.

So, my guess  is "For the People" means an emphasis on policies that will help the vast majority of the country who continues to fall behind. That is the rationale for such policies as "free tuition" to college (for example).

(And not to change the subject, but I disagree slightly with aubie50 in that providing corporate tax breaks is less of a problem than providing huge tax breaks to the rich who mostly profit from those corporate tax breaks.  I would set the corporate rates as low as possible while increasing taxes on those who ultimately receive corporate dividends and capital gains.)

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

RME. The right is pushing a narrative of the left becoming too left and not moderate enough while simultaneously ignoring the plank in their own eye. Worry about resident idiots Sean Hannity, Alex Jones  and the Nazis in your own party. 

[homersapien 11,379]

13 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

RME. The right is pushing a narrative of the left becoming too left and not moderate enough while simultaneously ignoring the plank in their own eye. Worry about resident idiots Sean Hannity, Alex Jones  and the Nazis in your own party. 

The irony is breathtaking.  

 

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/9/17525860/nazis-russell-walker-arthur-jones-republicans-illinois-north-carolina-virginia

Self-described Nazis and white supremacists are running as Republicans across the country. The GOP is terrified.

The racist candidates are expected to lose, but they could drag their party down with them.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

16 minutes ago, homersapien said:

The irony is breathtaking.  

 

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/9/17525860/nazis-russell-walker-arthur-jones-republicans-illinois-north-carolina-virginia

Self-described Nazis and white supremacists are running as Republicans across the country. The GOP is terrified.

The racist candidates are expected to lose, but they could drag their party down with them.

Exactly. But Fox and others want to push an imaginary alt left. They’ve already dreamed up a leftist civil war on July 4th and now its this radical left story. They don’t even reside within a thousand miles of reality. 

[AU64 10,122]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

The irony is breathtaking.  

 

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/9/17525860/nazis-russell-walker-arthur-jones-republicans-illinois-north-carolina-virginia

Self-described Nazis and white supremacists are running as Republicans across the country. The GOP is terrified.

The racist candidates are expected to lose, but they could drag their party down with them.

JMO but nothing GOP can do....anybody can run for office if they pay the fee.....and chances of any of these nuts actually winning or even influencing the outcome is miniscule.    Dems have an anti-Semite House candidate in NY now.....so who is worried about her?  Nobody it seems....

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

40 minutes ago, AU64 said:

JMO but nothing GOP can do....anybody can run for office if they pay the fee.....and chances of any of these nuts actually winning or even influencing the outcome is miniscule.    Dems have an anti-Semite House candidate in NY now.....so who is worried about her?  Nobody it seems....

There used to be no chance of a Nazi running for an office in America, much less running as a Republican. Yet here we are. 

[TitanTiger 20,483]

16 hours ago, GiveEmElle said:

There used to be no chance of a Nazi running for an office in America, much less running as a Republican. Yet here we are. 

Just so everyone knows, what Elle is referring to isn't just her employing a rhetorical flourish.  There's a literal Nazi running for Congress in Illinois as a Republican.

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=nazi+congress+republican&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

He'll be running against Democrat Dan Lipinski this November.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

26 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Just so everyone knows, what Elle is referring to isn't just her employing a rhetorical flourish.  There's a literal Nazi running for Congress in Illinois as a Republican.

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=nazi+congress+republican&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

He'll be running against Democrat Dan Lipinski this November.

I would only note that the GOP denounced him

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/20/us/politics/arthur-jones-illinois.html

[TitanTiger 20,483]

Just now, Proud Tiger said:

I would only note that the GOP denounced him

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/20/us/politics/arthur-jones-illinois.html

And that's fine.  But he ran unopposed because the GOP failed to field a candidate against him and missed the deadline to get a third party candidate in place.  So the party gets to deal with the optics of a literal Nazi representing the GOP in a Congressional race for the next 4 months.  He'll get destroyed by Lipinski, but it's a bad look nonetheless.