Your beliefs on Abortion...

[McLoofus 35,182]

28 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Smoke meth much?

I'm sorry?

[McLoofus 35,182]

33 minutes ago, triangletiger said:

It seems as though the argument that was put forth is that people who were adopted have difficulties in life, therefore, abortion should be legal.  

I'm not sure how you interpreted anything that way. 

[triangletiger 1,599]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

I'm not sure how you interpreted anything that way. 

This (below) is what started the whole ball rolling.

 

On ‎7‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 12:21 PM, kevon67 said:

Also people dont realize what adopted children go through.......even if adopted by loving and caring parents and especially if they already have children........I say this because pro lifers seem to think adoption is flawless.......especially"Christians".

 

On ‎7‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 2:09 PM, triangletiger said:

I'm not sure I follow your logic.  Adopted children have a tough road; therefore, they would have been better off being aborted?  

 

On ‎7‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 2:12 PM, kevon67 said:

Were you adopted?

 

 

On ‎7‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 2:14 PM, triangletiger said:

I was not.  Nor was I aborted.

 

On ‎7‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 2:17 PM, kevon67 said:

Had you been adopted you may have wish you were aborted.

 

[alexava 6,973]

1 hour ago, triangletiger said:

That's horrible, but it still doesn't make the case that a person who experienced those atrocities should have never been born.  Also, pointing out that some people are hypocrites with regard to this issue doesn't make the case either.

Is this statement based on an actual person you know/knew and, if so, did he or she tell you that they would have rather have not been given a chance to live?  Is he or she still alive?  

Just a story I heard about.  I agree it shouldn’t play into the discussion. It’s anomaly. 

Im all for adoption 100%. I would encourage it in most situations. I would never mandate it unless it’s past a certain point. Not sure exactly where that point is but I think 20 (maybe less)weeks is more than enough unless there’s medical complications. Once you get to a point you have a viable human inside you you have waited too long. You are close enough to the finish line to give a deserving couple the chance at parenthood and frankly you have been irresponsible first by getting pregnant then by waiting too long to take the opportunity of having a reset button. 

I still consider myself pro-choice, but with limitations to value life. I mean I’m for the women’s choice of what to do. All her choice. The sperm doner has no right at this time. If she hasn’t decided or taken action in this very reasonable amount of time then I’ll be pro life. I think we have extremists on both sides and they let political agendas dictate what they see as right or wrong. But one thing I am pretty sure of is no one is clapping for cheering on an abortion. The less we have the better. The less we hear about it the better. 

[kevon67 2,368]

The point is adoption isnt always a bed of roses.......had a close friend in HS that couldn't handle the feeling of abandonment so when I dropped him off at home shortly after midnight he committed suicide.....so what may seemed like a boo boo needing a bandage or his feelings were hurt because he was adopted grow up get over it was a little more complicated to him.........I guess walking in his shoes would give someone better understanding.

[alexava 6,973]

My cousin and his wife are late 20s. He’s sterile but very successful in army. They got very lucky a couple years ago. A pitifully poor and troubled ( but married ) woman got knocked up by someone other than her husband?? The only details she gave was that the father was white and didn’t know she was pregnant or would not interfere with the adoption( I cannot remember which) . She was pretty far along when We found out so I didn’t ask if abortion  was considered. She was introduced to my cousins wife by a mutual acquaintance. Through dhr or some social services she questioned them thoroughly and chose them to adopt her child. ( she had older kids taken by state). Anyway she checked them out and they got to adopt a son quickly and easy compared to most. Every body is happy. They were allowed to pay her medical bills and actually attended dr visits with her. They actually bonded her out of jail once and had her water heater fixed in her house. ( this was borderline as it would have been illegal to pay her). They were just trying to get the kid healthy. It worked. She had a certain amount of time to change her mind and I predicted she would. She didn’t. It doesn’t always work that way. 

https://www.al.com/news/2019/07/foster-father-pleads-guilty-to-abuse-rape-torture-of-children-in-alabama.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=aldotcom_sf&fbclid=IwAR1aF6bhgRXozkk-6SwwowZdDKLQOACmEO00zU2sVPTYqs1kOnLHPChtwoQ&fbclid=IwAR2F8IgHjs1mSHQIartfU__uEbi9YmZEAeemUwhB907QCAMCzrAXN6Q721c

Some people just suck. But I still don’t think either one of those situations are worthy of consideration in the abortion debate. 

[DKW 86 7,425]

8 hours ago, metafour said:

What trolling? His point is 100% logical - to argue that abortion is morally valid because some adopted people have to suffer the negatives of being adopted is absurd.  ALL life is suffering to some degree.  A life of inconvenience is still worth more than no life at all.  We make choices every day that carry negative outcomes in the name of the greater good.  You are going to have to excuse me, but there are MUCH worse fates that you could be straddled with at birth than having to eventually deal with the sadness of learning that you were adopted.  There are people who are born with no arms and legs.

 

7 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Man. You guys really aren't getting... anything... at all.

Although your last 2 sentences do make a good case for keeping abortion legal. 

There are those that are raised and live their whole lives with any number of medical conditions.  Abortion is the best option for so few tho. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 hour ago, DKW 86 said:

There are those that are raised and live their whole lives with any number of medical conditions.  Abortion is the best option for so few tho. 

Feel free to provide statistics.

Also feel free to share your personal experience with one of these situations.

[kevon67 2,368]

Person paralyzed from the neck down stares at ceiling 24/7 365.............person that has full mobility says at least he's still alive.

[DKW 86 7,425]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

Feel free to provide statistics.

Also feel free to share your personal experience with one of these situations.

Spina Bifida, etc. I just dont want to talk about it at the moment...maybe in a day or so. Wore with breakdown at work.

[alexava 6,973]

On 7/30/2019 at 6:07 PM, DKW 86 said:

 

There are those that are raised and live their whole lives with any number of medical conditions.  Abortion is the best option for so few tho. 

Some don’t even make exceptions for those few. 

[alexava 6,973]

On 7/30/2019 at 5:30 PM, kevon67 said:

The point is adoption isnt always a bed of roses.......had a close friend in HS that couldn't handle the feeling of abandonment so when I dropped him off at home shortly after midnight he committed suicide.....so what may seemed like a boo boo needing a bandage or his feelings were hurt because he was adopted grow up get over it was a little more complicated to him.........I guess walking in his shoes would give someone better understanding.

Some people never shake that feeling. You never know how other people deal with things.

[kevon67 2,368]

2 hours ago, alexava said:

Some people never shake that feeling. You never know how other people deal with things.

I admit to having some right leanings but as I get older I honestly try to see both.......Haven't always felt that way.......It basically takes having to walk in another persons shoes to make a person realize everything is not cut n dry........like say a pastor would lead you to believe.

[DKW 86 7,425]

I have a close friend with severe Spina Bifida. She is wheelchair bound 300+ days a year. She is still a vital asset to her friends and family and church. She has good days and bad days just like any other long term medical condition. Kim and i help support her financially. And she gets by and for the most part prospers. Her birth family gave her up for adoption. She was adopted by a wonderful family in the Catholic Church that adopted kids with birth defects. Katie is a wonderful girl that, in a weird way, some younger guys find oddly sexy. She doesnt think of herself as disabled, nor ask for any help above things that are just not in her physical reach. She has a good life, most days...

I worked my way thru my senior year at Auburn tending to a quad. The guy was born healthy and was an elite gymnast at one point before injuring himself diving off a boat house on a river in Florida. If anyone should have been bitter, it would have been him. He wasnt. Ralph Irvin McCoy '88 taught me the true meaning of "s*** happens." Again he had good days, bad days, and often great as hell days. He graduated in Building Sciences from Auburn. I thank God that I was a part of RIM getting his degree and living a very productive life. 

Dont tell me that not having all your s*** in one sock means you should even contemplate an Abortion or a Suicide. If you are in terrible pain in an end of life scenario, hell i will help you go home. But to even contemplate taking your life, or the life of another for nothing more than "Convenience" is just 100% Bovine Excrement. If Helen Keller can have a a life of World Impact, maybe some people are just losers or need a good swift KITA. 

[kevon67 2,368]

3 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

I have a close friend with severe Spina Bifida. She is wheelchair bound 300+ days a year. She is still a vital asset to her friends and family and church. She has good days and bad days just like any other long term medical condition. Kim and i help support her financially. And she gets by and for the most part prospers. Her birth family gave her up for adoption. She was adopted by a wonderful family in the Catholic Church that adopted kids with birth defects. Katie is a wonderful girl that, in a weird way, some younger guys find oddly sexy. She doesnt think of herself as disabled, nor ask for any help above things that are just not in her physical reach. She has a good life, most days...

I worked my way thru my senior year at Auburn tending to a quad. The guy was born healthy and was an elite gymnast at one point before injuring himself diving off a boat house on a river in Florida. If anyone should have been bitter, it would have been him. He wasnt. Ralph Irvin McCoy '88 taught me the true meaning of "s*** happens." Again he had good days, bad days, and often great as hell days. He graduated in Building Sciences from Auburn. I thank God that I was a part of RIM getting his degree and living a very productive life. 

Dont tell me that not having all your s*** in one sock means you should even contemplate an Abortion or a Suicide. If you are in terrible pain in an end of life scenario, hell i will help you go home. But to even contemplate taking your life, or the life of another for nothing more than "Convenience" is just 100% Bovine Excrement. If Helen Keller can have a a life of World Impact, maybe some people are just losers or need a good swift KITA. 

First sentence third paragraph........Agree for the exception of s*** in one sock........I argue a child that has been raped by an adoptive parent forced to carry that life sentence may disagree with your s*** in one sock comparison........not every adoption is a Pastor James Robinson story.

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

The guy was born healthy and was an elite gymnast at one point before injuring himself diving off a boat house on a river in Florida. If anyone should have been bitter, it would have been him.

And what does a perfectly healthy person who became unhealthy because of their own decision have to do with the conversation?

Thanks for sharing your stories but it's incredibly illogical to project your extremely narrow experience onto that of others. You know nothing of the struggles of the vast majority of Americans. You have no place telling them how things are. 

I suppose that's the biggest difference, really. People who think they know more than they do because of anecdotal evidence vs those of us who have no problem acknowledging that we don't know s***. 

[kevon67 2,368]

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

And what does a perfectly healthy person who became unhealthy because of their own decision have to do with the conversation?

Thanks for sharing your stories but it's incredibly illogical to project your extremely narrow experience onto that of others. You know nothing of the struggles of the vast majority of Americans. You have no place telling them how things are. 

I suppose that's the biggest difference, really. People who think they know more than they do because of anecdotal evidence vs those of us who have no problem acknowledging that we don't know s***. 

May sound silly but the The Wire was really instrumental in helping me try to see both sides...........When you grow up in a home where your mother cooks breakfast every morning as a kid you to tend to believe 90 percent of everyone lives that way........That show was way more fact than fiction...........some kids never have a chance from day one.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, kevon67 said:

May sound silly but the The Wire was really instrumental in helping me try to see both sides...........When you grow up in a home where your mother cooks breakfast every morning as a kid you to tend to believe 90 percent of everyone lives that way........That show was way more fact than fiction...........some kids never have a chance from day one.

Exactly. Super duper guilty. And I still have to challenge my assumptions and preconceived notions and biases and prejudices all the time. But we have to keep trying. 

Anyway. Most anti-abortion (lol at "pro life") folks I talk to not only haven't had to walk in another man's shoes, but they see no reason to even entertain the idea. It's a pervasive theme in social conservatism. 

[kevon67 2,368]

8 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Exactly. Super duper guilty. And I still have to challenge my assumptions and preconceived notions and biases and prejudices all the time. But we have to keep trying. 

Anyway. Most anti-abortion (lol at "pro life") folks I talk to not only haven't had to walk in another man's shoes, but they see no reason to even entertain the idea. It's a pervasive theme in social conservatism. 

Well put.

[Grumps 3,704]

16 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Exactly. Super duper guilty. And I still have to challenge my assumptions and preconceived notions and biases and prejudices all the time. But we have to keep trying. 

Anyway. Most anti-abortion (lol at "pro life") folks I talk to not only haven't had to walk in another man's shoes, but they see no reason to even entertain the idea. It's a pervasive theme in social conservatism. 

Great post! I am also guilty. As you say, the whole key is to "challenge your assumptions and preconceived notions and biases and prejudices all the time." That's the reason why I keep coming to this forum.

I agree with  you that "pro life" folks are biased, but "anti-life" folks (that was meant as a joke) are too. The problem is that WE ALL can only walk in our own shoes. But we can and should seek to understand the points of view of those who think differently from us.

[McLoofus 35,182]

34 minutes ago, Grumps said:

Great post! I am also guilty. As you say, the whole key is to "challenge your assumptions and preconceived notions and biases and prejudices all the time." That's the reason why I keep coming to this forum.

I agree with  you that "pro life" folks are biased, but "anti-life" folks (that was meant as a joke) are too. The problem is that WE ALL can only walk in our own shoes. But we can and should seek to understand the points of view of those who think differently from us.

I really like disagreeing with some of y'all. And some of y'all are teaching me to be better at disagreeing. 

[homersapien 11,374]

Not being a woman - much less one with an unwanted pregnancy - my feelings on abortion don't count for squat.

I believe it's up to the involved woman, period.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

my feelings on abortion don't count for squat.

 

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I believe it's up to the involved woman, period.

 

[Grumps 3,704]

19 hours ago, homersapien said:

Not being a woman - much less one with an unwanted pregnancy - my feelings on abortion don't count for squat.

I believe it's up to the involved woman, period.

I appreciate your position. But do you think that the potential future feelings of a viable fetus (which would be a child if outside the womb) might should matter at least a little bit? Does it make you feel at least a little bit funny to consider a viable human as disposable property?

[alexava 6,973]

22 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Exactly. Super duper guilty. And I still have to challenge my assumptions and preconceived notions and biases and prejudices all the time. But we have to keep trying. 

Anyway. Most anti-abortion (lol at "pro life") folks I talk to not only haven't had to walk in another man's shoes, but they see no reason to even entertain the idea. It's a pervasive theme in social conservatism. 

I was explaining this a couple weeks ago. ( first paragraph). The older I get the clearer,or more muddy things get. You gotta get out of your own way and let yourself see from different perspectives.