What will be different this year?

[abw0004 10,119]

I apologize for the delay.  See below:

18 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

I feel like you didn't watch much Purdue football last year.  I saw them play at least six times.  They weren't very good.  You are correct, but I kept up with them more than you would think.  My father's side of the family is from Terra Haute so they kept me well informed, especially when the bowls were announced.

Beating #25 Iowa isn't a top ranked team.  It's a fringe ranked team.  The only real win of note they had was vs Ohio State and to their credit, Purdue played great that evening.  A top-25 team is a top-25 team.  That is still an accomplishment.

But you also conveniently left off the fact that Purdue lost to Eastern Michigan and got their doors blown off by a middling Minnesota team.  Good teams don't let that happen.  It isn't that I left them off, more of it didn't matter whether I mentioned it or not for the point coming across.  Had they won those narrow losses, we are talking about a team with 10 wins going into our game.  Many on here did not think we would win this one with the record as it stood.

Do I think Troy beats them?  Quite possibly yes.  And it's not "laughable or disrespectful" to say because there is evidence that Purdue can and did lose to a worse than Troy caliber team last season.  Obviously I would disagree here, but we can agree to disagree.  The bottom line is give Gus credit where credit is due.  The point was do not strip Gus of his accomplishments and pile on the blame for things that are out of him control.  Just be fair.  That is the point of DAG and I are trying to convey.

 

[DAG 33,989]

19 hours ago, auburnphan said:

Agree.  But he needed to win it how he did.  So in a weird way it was a lose, lose, win kinda game.

Well he did just that and people are saying “well, yeah but it was purdue.” Or pretty much giving back handed compliment . “Remember, this was against Purdue.” So I don’t necessarily agree with your assessment. How about  call it a great win to end the season and leave it at that? 

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

On 7/17/2019 at 9:38 PM, tigerman1186 said:

The past several days I've watched last years TA&M, LSU and Georgia games on ESPNU and wonder what is going to be different this coming season???? Stidham was running for his life a lot of times....we couldn't run the ball effectively....how we won the A&M game is still hard to understand; except for a couple of big plays (Ryan Davis catch and run), we didn't do much at all during the game except a lot of 3 and outs....LSU was one of the few games against a good team we played somewhat well offensively at times (never should have lost the past 2 years to them, but we did????)...Georgia we scored on a gadget play....

I think too many are looking at the bowl game when Gus was calling the plays and are expecting that to happen this season (please tell me it will), but Purdue (I know they beat Ohio St.) couldn't beat many teams in the SEC....

I'm just afraid there isn't going to be that much of a change from this past year...we lost our best offensive player #8 and our best defensive player #57, I just don't see it....TELL ME I'M WRONG....

War Eagle.... 

That is the 27M plus question this year. What will be different? Who really knows right now to be honest.

[McLoofus 35,182]

10 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

Why on earth would you think that? What in the last 20 years gives you hope that we break the curse with either a RS Freshmen or a True Freshmen at QB?

I feel you on that. And I promise I've not (yet) fallen victim to Gus's gaslighting. BUT... we should have beaten them the last 2 years. They've still got the Ogre coaching. We are at least as talented as they are, and we probably do have a better defense than they do, especially now that they graduated that damned linebacker.

That said, obviously they're going to win on 4th quarter shenanigans as always. 

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

20 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I feel you on that. And I promise I've not (yet) fallen victim to Gus's gaslighting. BUT... we should have beaten them the last 2 years. They've still got the Ogre coaching. We are at least as talented as they are, and we probably do have a better defense than they do, especially now that they graduated that damned linebacker.

That said, obviously they're going to win on 4th quarter shenanigans as always. 

Damn sure should have beat them the last two years.

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

Unless our O-line improves dramatically then I don't see a DT QB making that big of a difference for the offense this season. It's not like Stidham was a statue. It's not a situation like we're going from Chris Todd in 2009 to Cam Newton in 2010. Stidham actually ran more in 2017 on designed runs but was forced into more obvious passing situations in 2018 with a running game that couldn't get established because of the O-line's struggles. 

I know people will point out how in 2017 we gave up 11 sacks against Clemson and how much better the O-line got that season. But here's the thing. That was against Clemson who had NFL first round top picks on their D-line.  The 2018 O-line struggled against Arkansas, Southern Miss, and Tennessee's D-line's. The 2016 and 2017 O-line's at least handled inferior SEC opponent's D-line's. We ran all over Arkansas in 2016,  56-3. The 2016 O-line just struggled against the better defenses but handled the weaker teams. The 2019 line will have start to handling Tulane, Arkansas, and other weaker opponents D-line's before we can start acting like they're capable of handling Texas A&M, Florida, LSU, UGA, and Bama's D-line's and us having a good year and winning 9+ games.

[DAG 33,989]

21 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

Unless our O-line improves dramatically then I don't see a DT QB making that big of a difference for the offense this season. It's not like Stidham was a statue. It's not a situation like we're going from Chris Todd in 2009 to Cam Newton in 2010. Stidham actually ran more in 2017 on designed runs but was forced into more obvious passing situations in 2018 with a running game that couldn't get established because of the O-line's struggles. 

I know people will point out how in 2017 we gave up 11 sacks against Clemson and how much better the O-line got that season. But here's the thing. That was against Clemson who had NFL first round top picks on their D-line.  The 2018 O-line struggled against Arkansas, Southern Miss, and Tennessee's D-line's. The 2016 and 2017 O-line's at least handled inferior SEC opponent's D-line's. We ran all over Arkansas in 2016,  56-3. The 2016 O-line just struggled against the better defenses but handled the weaker teams. The 2019 line will have start to handling Tulane, Arkansas, and other weaker opponents D-line's before we can start acting like they're capable of handling Texas A&M, Florida, LSU, UGA, and Bama's D-line's and us having a good year and winning 9+ games.

JG is significantly more athletic than JS. Are you saying otherwise? Teams will not scheme the say way they schemed for JS. It was the same reaction when JF3 came in for SW. Teams know they can get burnt if not discipline with reading the QB right. This was not the case with Stidham. Quite frankly SW looked more athletic than JS at times and that is saying something. 

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

57 minutes ago, DAG said:

JG is significantly more athletic than JS. Are you saying otherwise? Teams will not scheme the say way they schemed for JS. It was the same reaction when JF3 came in for SW. Teams know they can get burnt if not discipline with reading the QB right. This was not the case with Stidham. Quite frankly SW looked more athletic than JS at times and that is saying something. 

My whole point wasn't to somehow prop up Stidham as being comparable to Cam Newton athletically or something, but just saying that having a DT QB isn't going to make our O-line be able to block better, especially against better defenses. We haven't seen JG play in any meaningful situations. Getting mop up time against Purdue when both teams wanted to get the game over with didn't really show us much.

Look at what Arkansas did last year against us. They rushed the edge and crashed down and disrupted several plays. John Chavis really had a good game plan against us. That's what he did at A&M with Myles Garrett in 2014. They had defenders ready for both Whitlow and Stidham no matter who decided to keep the ball on run plays. We only mustered 225 yards of offense against Arkansas. 

Unless the O-line can handle the better defenses in the SEC then the chances of us winning 9+ games aren't great no matter who the QB is. I'd be more optimistic if we had 2010, 2013, or 2017 O-line's to  go along with JG at QB. Then I could get more excited about 2019.

[DAG 33,989]

2 hours ago, Auburnfan91 said:

My whole point wasn't to somehow prop up Stidham as being comparable to Cam Newton athletically or something, but just saying that having a DT QB isn't going to make our O-line be able to block better, especially against better defenses. We haven't seen JG play in any meaningful situations. Getting mop up time against Purdue when both teams wanted to get the game over with didn't really show us much.

Look at what Arkansas did last year against us. They rushed the edge and crashed down and disrupted several plays. John Chavis really had a good game plan against us. That's what he did at A&M with Myles Garrett in 2014. They had defenders ready for both Whitlow and Stidham no matter who decided to keep the ball on run plays. We only mustered 225 yards of offense against Arkansas. 

Unless the O-line can handle the better defenses in the SEC then the chances of us winning 9+ games aren't great no matter who the QB is. I'd be more optimistic if we had 2010, 2013, or 2017 O-line's to  go along with JG at QB. Then I could get more excited about 2019.

That's fine. The offensive line is key, but don't act like JS was even a moderate running threat. We don't know how a genuine running threat at QB could affect the offensive as a whole. Yeah, he did that in 2014, and we had well over 300 yards rushing on the ground with four tds. I would be hard press to see Arkansas do something like that with a real threat. For instance, look at the first play. They blitz off the edge and Stidham can't get away even though there is a crap load of running room to his right. If you miss on JG like that, you are in some trouble. But we will see. Even at the 35 second mark, if that defensive end crashes down, I am taking my chances on JG being able to make him miss and get to the outside. NM and CN both had to do that at times, but I also believe Schwartz will be used in the Eli Stove role to make it a triple option look now that Gus is running the offense again. I imagine that TE was there to give Stidham the time he needed. No more.  For instance look at 42 seconds.. That is how you neutralize that crap.

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

8 hours ago, DAG said:

That's fine. The offensive line is key, but don't act like JS was even a moderate running threat. We don't know how a genuine running threat at QB could affect the offensive as a whole. Yeah, he did that in 2014, and we had well over 300 yards rushing on the ground with four tds. I would be hard press to see Arkansas do something like that with a real threat. For instance, look at the first play. They blitz off the edge and Stidham can't get away even though there is a crap load of running room to his right. If you miss on JG like that, you are in some trouble. But we will see. Even at the 35 second mark, if that defensive end crashes down, I am taking my chances on JG being able to make him miss and get to the outside. NM and CN both had to do that at times, but I also believe Schwartz will be used in the Eli Stove role to make it a triple option look now that Gus is running the offense again. I imagine that TE was there to give Stidham the time he needed. No more.  For instance look at 42 seconds.. That is how you neutralize that crap.

Here's the thing that seems to be causing disagreement between us, while JG may be more athletic than Stidham, you're assuming JG is going to be used like Cam or NM. We ran a zone read style offense with both Cam and NM. I didn't see JG run much during the spring game. In fact, I saw Nix actually run more during the spring game. Maybe that was by design or maybe JG is going to run a similar type offense that Stidham ran. Gus will probably run JG a good bit more than he did Stidham but I also don't see JG running as much as Cam or NM did.....But that's just my opinion. 

Cam had 264 carries and rushed for 1473 yards in 2010.
NM had 172 carries and rushed for 1068 yards in 2013
NM had 153 carries and rushed for 798 yards in 2014

That's why I keep pointing out the O-line being the reason a DT QB may not make a huge difference for the offense. Both Cam and NM had good O-line's to run behind so the zone read worked better. Our 2018 O-line couldn't produce a 1,000 yard rusher or pass block very well for Stidham, who like I said isn't a statue. Stidham actually ran for a TD in the Arkansas game towards the end of the first half after the pocket collapsed. Just because he wasn't a run first QB or was asked to run a lot doesn't mean he was no threat to run. Stidham was capable of running for first downs if he had to.

Stidham ran for a 16 yard TD against Bama in 2017.

 

[DAG 33,989]

24 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

Here's the thing that seems to be causing disagreement between us, while JG may be more athletic than Stidham, you're assuming JG is going to be used like Cam or NM. We ran a zone read style offense with both Cam and NM. I didn't see JG run much during the spring game. In fact, I saw Nix actually run more during the spring game. Maybe that was by design or maybe JG is going to run a similar type offense that Stidham ran. Gus will probably run JG a good bit more than he did Stidham but I also don't see JG running as much as Cam or NM did.....But that's just my opinion. 

Cam had 264 carries and rushed for 1473 yards in 2010.
NM had 172 carries and rushed for 1068 yards in 2013
NM had 153 carries and rushed for 798 yards in 2014

That's why I keep pointing out the O-line being the reason a DT QB may not make a huge difference for the offense. Both Cam and NM had good O-line's to run behind so the zone read worked better. Our 2018 O-line couldn't produce a 1,000 yard rusher or pass block very well for Stidham, who like I said isn't a statue. Stidham actually ran for a TD in the Arkansas game towards the end of the first half after the pocket collapsed. Just because he wasn't a run first QB or was asked to run a lot doesn't mean he was no threat to run. Stidham was capable of running for first downs if he had to.

Stidham ran for a 16 yard TD against Bama in 2017.

 

Well I never said he wasn’t a threat to run. I am saying he is pedestrian at best. IMO, it is unfair to assume the offensive line will sputter, unless they make monstrous strides based off how we used JS because the fact is , he isn’t and was not much of a running threat. For all I know , the offense could’ve been shaped a lot differently with a DT QB last year. In fact , he had an NFL RB and a quality offensive line in 2017 and his running stats were still pedestrian. Compare them to SW’s running stats who was actually labeled as a pro-style QB out of high school. I do think Gus will go back to his bread and butter which will pay dividends for the RB and offensive line, IMO.

[Tiger 8,827]

I actually think the discrepancy in style going from Chris Todd to Cam Newton, again in terms of style , is about as close to what we will see if Joey G wins the job this year.

 

Including sacks, Stidham had 1 rushing yard last season with his longest run being 18 yards.

Prior year he had 153 yards with his longest being 24 yards.

Sean White rushed for 163 with a long of 41 his soph year.

Chris Todd rushed for 104 yards his senior year.

 

These guys were all statues compared to a guy like JG. IMO If Joey wins the job everything will change whether the OL is bad or not. A bad OL will look significantly better because of Joey bailing them out. Gus could run the same exact plays and be just as predictable as he has been and he will still look smarter for the mere fact that Joey will have the ability to actually make something out of nothing. 

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

I actually think the discrepancy in style going from Chris Todd to Cam Newton, again in terms of style , is about as close to what we will see if Joey G wins the job this year.

 

Including sacks, Stidham had 1 rushing yard last season with his longest run being 18 yards.

Prior year he had 153 yards with his longest being 24 yards.

Sean White rushed for 163 with a long of 41 his soph year.

Chris Todd rushed for 104 yards his senior year.

 

These guys were all statues compared to a guy like JG. IMO If Joey wins the job everything will change whether the OL is bad or not. A bad OL will look significantly better because of Joey bailing them out. Gus could run the same exact plays and be just as predictable as he has been and he will still look smarter for the mere fact that Joey will have the ability to actually make something out of nothing. 

Whether it's the RB running inside or the QB OL play still dictates success.  Cam doesn't have the success he had running inside without a very good OL.

[aujeff11 6,243]

2 hours ago, Tiger said:

I actually think the discrepancy in style going from Chris Todd to Cam Newton, again in terms of style , is about as close to what we will see if Joey G wins the job this year.

 

Including sacks, Stidham had 1 rushing yard last season with his longest run being 18 yards.

Prior year he had 153 yards with his longest being 24 yards.

Sean White rushed for 163 with a long of 41 his soph year.

Chris Todd rushed for 104 yards his senior year.

 

These guys were all statues compared to a guy like JG. IMO If Joey wins the job everything will change whether the OL is bad or not. A bad OL will look significantly better because of Joey bailing them out. Gus could run the same exact plays and be just as predictable as he has been and he will still look smarter for the mere fact that Joey will have the ability to actually make something out of nothing. 

Exactly. Just for comparison’s sake, because Dak did some inside runs and scrambles that hurt Auburn. Dak didn’t start off strong as a passer at all, but slowly developed into a decent passer.  Gatewood will be more powerful of a runner ( much higher squat PR) and probably little faster as well. Prescott’s  40 was only 4.80. Gatewood’s floor can at least be Dak if we let him develop. And the ceiling,  higher. 

[Tiger 8,827]

16 hours ago, dyehardfanAU said:

Whether it's the RB running inside or the QB OL play still dictates success.  Cam doesn't have the success he had running inside without a very good OL.

Not disputing that, but a chunk of an OL's inability to hold their blocks will be mitigated by a QBs ability to run -- something we have not had since the great Nicholas Marshall. Not to mention most of our run game is predicated on the threat of the QB actually keeping the ball, that should also help our run game look a lot less stagnant.

But yes, we do need better blocking than last year. Teams were sitting on the Stidham keep (lol) and just letting DTs blow up Kim/Brahms and the guards and ruin our inside run game without needing help from the outside. I think things will be improved but even if blocking stays equal IMO we will see an improvement if JG wins the job

[McLoofus 35,182]

It's interesting that there wasn't much NFL talent at all on any of the 2010, 2013 or 2014 OLs. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

26 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Not disputing that, but a chunk of an OL's inability to hold their blocks will be mitigated by a QBs ability to run -- something we have not had since the great Nicholas Marshall. Not to mention most of our run game is predicated on the threat of the QB actually keeping the ball, that should also help our run game look a lot less stagnant.

But yes, we do need better blocking than last year. Teams were sitting on the Stidham keep (lol) and just letting DTs blow up Kim/Brahms and the guards and ruin our inside run game without needing help from the outside. I think things will be improved but even if blocking stays equal IMO we will see an improvement if JG wins the job

Yes.....and I really hope he changes his looks.....so we aren't so predictable. When its a run the RB is 1 1/2 yds behind the QB....if its a pass the RB is almost right beside the QB so he can get to the block quicker. You can call it like clockwork...everytime.....

[Tiger 8,827]

1 minute ago, Tigerpro2a said:

Yes.....and I really hope he changes his looks.....so we aren't so predictable. When its a run the RB is 1 1/2 yds behind the QB....if its a pass the RB is almost right beside the QB so he can get to the block quicker. You can call it like clockwork...everytime.....

It's amazing how he thinks people haven't caught on to this...from their couch. Not to mention guys being paid millions to figure us out lol

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

1 minute ago, Tiger said:

It's amazing how he thinks people haven't caught on to this...from their couch. Not to mention guys being paid millions to figure us out lol

I have been watching film the past few days from games in 2013.....i need to go back and watch some 2010 and ome Tulsa...but in 2013 I didn't notice it as bad....and that may be because we ran pretty much the same play every time.....just from different formations....it was a RPO Zone read and every now and then we would do an obvious drop back type play but last few years its like he doesnt care if the defense knows whats coming or not....maybe tht is the stubborness.....Idk....It will really put a strain on my Valium prescription if that isn't changed this season though. 

[Tiger 8,827]

4 minutes ago, Tigerpro2a said:

I have been watching film the past few days from games in 2013.....i need to go back and watch some 2010 and ome Tulsa...but in 2013 I didn't notice it as bad....and that may be because we ran pretty much the same play every time.....just from different formations....it was a RPO Zone read and every now and then we would do an obvious drop back type play but last few years its like he doesnt care if the defense knows whats coming or not....maybe tht is the stubborness.....Idk....It will really put a strain on my Valium prescription if that isn't changed this season though. 

"if the players would just gosh dern execute..."

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

2 minutes ago, Tiger said:

"if the players would just gosh dern execute..."

"Well i think from a coaching standpoint..yea theres no doubt...that from a coaching standpoint we want to run the dern ball....execute....but yea we got flagged for holding....thats what happened.....it was bullcrap...i got flagged for saying bullcrap.....we still got alot of season left and from a coaching standpoint we are going to work hard.er this week in practice......What was that? Oh yea with Chandler.....The Whirly Bird? Yea we thought it would work but it didn't...we just didnt execute. Thank you" .............in my best Gus Voice

[McLoofus 35,182]

26 minutes ago, Tiger said:

"if the players would just gosh dern execute..."

Angry because it's true. 

[WalkingCarpet 1,379]

I know I'm setting myself up for disappointment but I think this is the year Gus realizes that his offense needs a dual threat quarterback to succeed. Gatewood is a big bruiser like Cam was and Nix has wheels too. If Gatewood is the guy I see us going back to a lot of read plays with the running back sidecar left or right and the stretch read where the back goes out wide on the give or the QB keeps and runs behind the center. 

I'm not sure there will be a lot of called runs for or read plays for Nix but teams are going to have to keep a linebacker or safety in to spy him on passing plays. The way he can extend plays and run to daylight sets him apart from guys like Stidham. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

2 hours ago, WalkingCarpet said:

I know I'm setting myself up for disappointment but I think this is the year Gus realizes that his offense needs a dual threat quarterback to succeed. Gatewood is a big bruiser like Cam was and Nix has wheels too. If Gatewood is the guy I see us going back to a lot of read plays with the running back sidecar left or right and the stretch read where the back goes out wide on the give or the QB keeps and runs behind the center. 

I'm not sure there will be a lot of called runs for or read plays for Nix but teams are going to have to keep a linebacker or safety in to spy him on passing plays. The way he can extend plays and run to daylight sets him apart from guys like Stidham. 

If Joey starts I see us running the 2010 inverted veer type Offense where you read either an end or tackle and the RB hits the edge and the QB either gives or keeps based on the key......with Bo i see more of a hybrid type offense with 2013 zone read scheme mixed with 2017 . Either can be deadly if the OLine play is solid