Pegues moves to DT

[Gowebb11 9,328]

We’ve quickly moved from tight ends being completely irrelevant to debating whether one of our many should be moved to another position. I see “Tight End U” in our future  😀🦅

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 hours ago, Tigerpro2a said:

I am not mentioning stats. I am just talking about his plays period. What can he do that our other TE's can't do and possibly better? I actually think he played really well. Deal is our best blocker IMO. Frazier is probably our best pass catching option. I mean where does JJ shine in the room other than..."oh boy here comes the 300 lb TE...who is nimble on his feet. I like him in a GL set but that is about it. I think it's just the novelty of him being 300 lbs and really athletic....for 300 lbs.....I am just happy he moved.

What he gives you is a guy he can do everything that all those other guys can do at least almost as well. Instead of being the blocking guy, or the big slot guy, or whatever, he can do all of those things pretty well. Except for maybe stretch the field. But what nobody who has brought that up has said which tight end is significantly faster than Pegues. I'm guessing Frazier is, but we haven't really seen it yet. King almost definitely will be. 

Anyway, he gave you a dependable guy who could line up in the backfield, in line, or with a hand in the dirt. Maybe that is not of critical value, but more than likely I feel like the other guys convinced Harsin that at least one or two of them could be depended upon.

Folks keep ignoring the fact that his high school team found every way to get the ball in his hands that they could, and that he got a lot of usage in that position under Gus as a true freshman. He was a four-star recruit as an offensive skill player. 

It's fine to say that his future is on defense and that he can be an elite tackle, and all signs seem to be pointing that way. But I'm just never going to buy all the talk about how mediocre a tight end he would have been. He was going to be a very valuable football player either way.

[McLoofus 35,182]

9 hours ago, cole256 said:

As far as JJ the way I always looked at it was what if he fulfilled all potential. Between the 2 positions there's a big gap as far as impact if he does. If it translates he has potential to be all time great at d tackle.

But that's just my opinion

This is the best way I've heard it said so far. This takes nothing away from his skills on offense.

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 hours ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

I mean, the carries as far as running went still went according to how I described them. There's no TE on our roster that's doing much better than that. He seemed to be a pretty average catching TE, maybe above average if you consider his weight, not a great feel for being out in space though. 

Looks good in space to me.

Folks can save the pushback on this. If it was Derrick Henry, it would be plastered all over Twitter for a week. That works both ways. 

 

[AUGunsmith 666]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

What he gives you is a guy he can do everything that all those other guys can do at least almost as well. Instead of being the blocking guy, or the big slot guy, or whatever, he can do all of those things pretty well. Except for maybe stretch the field. But what nobody who has brought that up has said which tight end is significantly faster than Pegues. I'm guessing Frazier is, but we haven't really seen it yet. King almost definitely will be. 

Anyway, he gave you a dependable guy who could line up in the backfield, in line, or with a hand in the dirt. Maybe that is not of critical value, but more than likely I feel like the other guys convinced Harsin that at least one or two of them could be depended upon.

Folks keep ignoring the fact that his high school team found every way to get the ball in his hands that they could, and that he got a lot of usage in that position under Gus as a true freshman. He was a four-star recruit as an offensive skill player. 

It's fine to say that his future is on defense and that he can be an elite tackle, and all signs seem to be pointing that way. But I'm just never going to buy all the talk about how mediocre a tight end he would have been. He was going to be a very valuable football player either way.

Giving a very large very athletic guy the ball against 150lb 9th graders works? Imagine that. 

[Auhud08 596]

In some ways, what we’re hearing and seeing from the team is good news. It confirms the need to get rid of Gus (as if we needed it). You bring in a coach who runs a more complex system and the guys arent adjusting well, shows how much they WEREN’T taught by the previous staff. Athleticism is great, athleticism with a plan is even better.

We plan on being down there for A-Day, Im guessing we’re going to see some VERY base offense. Like remember the plays you ran in middle school, A gap, B gap, toss sweep, waggle? Thats my expectation. Also, because of that it will be difficult to get a good read on the D, theyve seen these plays for 4 weeks now. Theyre likley going to dominate, but I do think our Defense will keep us around in games. (I expect some 4Q losses are on the horizon). All in all its a step in the right direction. This is a foundation laying year. 
 

All i need is some boiled peanuts....

[bigbird 60,558]

41 minutes ago, Auhud08 said:

This is a foundation laying year. 

This is how I feel too.  I'm just hoping the foundation sets quicker than it sometimes does.

[Barnacle 9,064]

32 minutes ago, bigbird said:

This is how I feel too.  I'm just hoping the foundation sets quicker than it sometimes does.

Just want to see the team improve each week. Hoping to look like a good football team at the end of the season, but fully expecting the opposite to start. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

What he gives you is a guy he can do everything that all those other guys can do at least almost as well. Instead of being the blocking guy, or the big slot guy, or whatever, he can do all of those things pretty well. Except for maybe stretch the field. But what nobody who has brought that up has said which tight end is significantly faster than Pegues. I'm guessing Frazier is, but we haven't really seen it yet. King almost definitely will be. 

Anyway, he gave you a dependable guy who could line up in the backfield, in line, or with a hand in the dirt. Maybe that is not of critical value, but more than likely I feel like the other guys convinced Harsin that at least one or two of them could be depended upon.

Folks keep ignoring the fact that his high school team found every way to get the ball in his hands that they could, and that he got a lot of usage in that position under Gus as a true freshman. He was a four-star recruit as an offensive skill player. 

It's fine to say that his future is on defense and that he can be an elite tackle, and all signs seem to be pointing that way. But I'm just never going to buy all the talk about how mediocre a tight end he would have been. He was going to be a very valuable football player either way.

Well said. I am not saying he played mediocre...Actually the opposite. He did his job and did it well. I just think he can't be a stand out impact player on the DL and I do not know that he would be that at TE. 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,673]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

Looks good in space to me.

Folks can save the pushback on this. If it was Derrick Henry, it would be plastered all over Twitter for a week. That works both ways. 

 

I’m just capitulating to these guys man. Some people seem incapable of just saying that they think he’d be better at DL without almost entirely dismissing what he did on offense. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, Tigerpro2a said:

Well said. I am not saying he played mediocre...Actually the opposite. He did his job and did it well. I just think he can't be a stand out impact player on the DL and I do not know that he would be that at TE. 

At this point, it seems pretty clear that you and others that have been saying this are correct. And I'm not unhappy with the move at all. Seeing us get sacks from the interior DL again is going to be just as fun as watching big man catch passes. 

1 minute ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

I’m just capitulating to these guys man. Some people seem incapable of just saying that they think he’d be better at DL without almost entirely dismissing what he did on offense. 

That's exactly it. Say he's a future first rounder as a DL. Looks like there's a good chance he is and I'm not sure anyone has said otherwise. But let's expand our minds juuuuuust a little and acknowledge that he could've been an impact player on offense, too. (Just like one Shaun Shivers will be this year.)

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,673]

10 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

At this point, it seems pretty clear that you and others that have been saying this are correct. And I'm not unhappy with the move at all. Seeing us get sacks from the interior DL again is going to be just as fun as watching big man catch passes. 

That's exactly it. Say he's a future first rounder as a DL. Looks like there's a good chance he is and I'm not sure anyone has said otherwise. But let's expand our minds juuuuuust a little and acknowledge that he could've been an impact player on offense, too. (Just like one Shaun Shivers will be this year.)

As far as receptions went, there was only one I remember that he just couldn’t get it to...the wheel route vs UGA, a horrible pass by Bo that was behind the guy 

obv if you have better combinations of catch radius, blocking, etc, then use em. But you can easily survive with him as one of your two TEs in TE sets 

[metafour 4,969]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Looks good in space to me.

Folks can save the pushback on this. If it was Derrick Henry, it would be plastered all over Twitter for a week. That works both ways.

The difference is that Derrick Henry makes those plays play after play. That's what makes him an ELITE running back. Do you know how many guys we have on the roster who are athletic enough to pull off a jaw-dropping highlight play? It's a LOT - the point is that you can't give all of those guys the football or make room for them to potentially get an opportunity to showcase those skills. 

J.J. Pegues was actually extremely PRIVILEGED to have a package installed for him to get that opportunity. Now go look on the defensive side and find Wesley Steiner who was a hell of a RB in HS and is even faster than Pegues. Why doesn't he get a chance to carry the football? I'm sure he can also run the Wildcat and pull off a spin-move one out ten times he carries the ball.

Most players at this level of football are talented and athletic enough to make plays at other positions from time to time.

 

[AUGunsmith 666]

The spin move hurdle is fun to watch, but with the exact same play run 100 times, does JJ average better than tank or sivers or any other RB? 

It was fun to watch, but hopefully that wildcat bull**** dissapears forever. 

At most, jj should be used like nknindichi or olemiss or that giant nose guard Bama used a few years ago in goal line

[McLoofus 35,182]

31 minutes ago, metafour said:

The difference is that Derrick Henry makes those plays play after play. That's what makes him an ELITE running back. Do you know how many guys we have on the roster who are athletic enough to pull off a jaw-dropping highlight play? It's a LOT - the point is that you can't give all of those guys the football or make room for them to potentially get an opportunity to showcase those skills. 

J.J. Pegues was actually extremely PRIVILEGED to have a package installed for him to get that opportunity. Now go look on the defensive side and find Wesley Steiner who was a hell of a RB in HS and is even faster than Pegues. Why doesn't he get a chance to carry the football? I'm sure he can also run the Wildcat and pull off a spin-move one out ten times he carries the ball.

Most players at this level of football are talented and athletic enough to make plays at other positions from time to time.

Let me know if you'd like me to recommend some breathing exercises. 

A lot of odd logic and emotion above. (Comparing a LB/RB's speed to that of a TE/DL?) Whatever. I'm sure we'll all be very happy with the results going forward. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

43 minutes ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

As far as receptions went, there was only one I remember that he just couldn’t get it to...the wheel route vs UGA, a horrible pass by Bo that was behind the guy 

obv if you have better combinations of catch radius, blocking, etc, then use em. But you can easily survive with him as one of your two TEs in TE sets 

Yep. And I watched some of Boise's film and they had an H/TE tweener guy lining up all over the place. Literally going from a FB position to a slot position to a hand in the dirt TE position on 3 consecutive plays. Pegues could do that. Could any other guys? I feel like Shenker could, but could he do any of them as well?

Doesn't matter now, and it clearly doesn't matter as much to Harsin as having him on the DL. But I'm not sure anyone can really deny that the dude would've given us that kind of versatility, any more than I or anyone else can prove that he could have. 

[Tiger Refuge 6,670]

I just look forward to him not tripping on his own feet in wide open field on a scoop and score next year.

[metafour 4,969]

And here's why objectivism matters:

John Samuel Shenker: 9 receptions for 97 yards, 10.8 yards per reception, receiving long of 26 yards.

J.J. Pegues: 7 receptions for 57 yards, 8.1 yards per reception, receiving long of 16 yards.

Absolutely no one would consider Shenker to be an "offensive weapon". Nobody is lambasting to get the ball in his hands or arguing that we need to design ways to target him more. And yet he actually outproduced Pegues as a receiver last season. Neither guy is getting a million balls thrown their way either.

So again, let's take the NOVELTY out of this. It's not even about trashing Pegues' production on offense. He made some good plays, but the whole point is that it needs to be MEASURED. The people who are questioning this move are speaking as if we just moved Rob Gronkowski to DL. Pegues doesn't do anything on offense that can't objectively be matched or even OUTMATCHED by other players on the roster.

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, metafour said:

And here's why objectivism matters:

John Samuel Shenker: 9 receptions for 97 yards, 10.8 yards per reception, receiving long of 26 yards.

J.J. Pegues: 7 receptions for 57 yards, 8.1 yards per reception, receiving long of 16 yards.

You mean Shenker the junior vs Pegues the true freshman? 

Wanna break that down by game? Would you find it interesting to discover that Pegues got most of his production late in the season and in bigger games?

7 minutes ago, metafour said:

Absolutely no one would consider Shenker to be an "offensive weapon". Nobody is lambasting to get the ball in his hands or arguing that we need to design ways to target him more. And yet he actually outproduced Pegues as a receiver last season. Neither guy is getting a million balls thrown their way either.

Actually, almost all of us have been asking to put the ball in the hands of whoever the H/TE is more for years. The name hasn't been that important since Uzomah left. And nobody was expecting a flood of passes. Jeez. Why does everything have to be so extreme? Is it really that upsetting to consider that Pegues would've been a good TE for us?

10 minutes ago, metafour said:

it needs to be MEASURED

Mixing caps is a great way to lead the charge on this.

10 minutes ago, metafour said:

The people who are questioning this move are speaking as if we just moved Rob Gronkowski to DL.

To whom does even a single word of this apply? Nobody has even said it's a bad move. 

11 minutes ago, metafour said:

Pegues doesn't do anything on offense that can't objectively be matched or even OUTMATCHED by other players on the roster.

This is neither a MEASURED, measured, nor objective observation.

[metafour 4,969]

35 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Let me know if you'd like me to recommend some breathing exercises. 

A lot of odd logic and emotion above. (Comparing a LB/RB's speed to that of a TE/DL?) Whatever. I'm sure we'll all be very happy with the results going forward. 

What odd logic? You mean common sense?

A Wildcat QB is a BALL CARRIER. Explain to me why a DL/TE needs to be running that play? Is SPEED not an important trait to consider in ANY ball-carrier? Why does Tank Bigsby line up at RB, and not John Samuel Shenker? 

The entire Pegues Wildcat BS is a novelty gimmick, as is the entire "Wildcat package". Not surprisingly, only Gus Malzahn thinks thats some "genius move". Wow a 300 pound guy did a spin move once and gained 10 yards. There's 30 guys on the roster who can do that, if not more. Should we give all of them a chance to run a Wildcat package? How do you know for sure that there aren't 10 guys on the defensive side of the football who are even better ball-carriers than Pegues? 

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, metafour said:

What odd logic? You mean common sense?

A Wildcat QB is a BALL CARRIER. Explain to me why a DL/TE needs to be running that play? Is SPEED not an important trait to consider in ANY ball-carrier? Why does Tank Bigsby line up at RB, and not John Samuel Shenker? 

The entire Pegues Wildcat BS is a novelty gimmick, as is the entire "Wildcat package". Not surprisingly, only Gus Malzahn thinks thats some "genius move". Wow a 300 pound guy did a spin move once and gained 10 yards. There's 30 guys on the roster who can do that, if not more. Should we give all of them a chance to run a Wildcat package? How do you know for sure that there aren't 10 guys on the defensive side of the football who are even better ball-carriers than Pegues? 

No, top end speed is not important for a short yardage ball carrier with an option to throw. The ability to find holes or, failing that, create them is much more important. But I didn't realize you were only talking about the wildcat. I'm confused as to why you are. 

As for the spin move play, I was simply providing an example of what the guy was capable of in space because somebody brought it up. I wasn't trying to suggest that he's Barry Sanders. Again, it's NOTHING to get so EMOTIONAL, sorry, MEASURED and OBJECTIVE about.

[metafour 4,969]

11 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

You mean Shenker the junior vs Pegues the true freshman? 

Wanna break that down by game? Would you find it interesting to discover that Pegues got most of his production late in the season and in bigger games?

Dude, you have the stats right there for you to look at. Who cares what game it came in? Its 7 catches for 57 yards LMAO. That is something that every single TE we have on the roster can accomplish. Even Shenker. That's the entire point. 

Pegues is extremely limited at TE....by virtue of being 300 pounds. He is limited to short area receptions. He is easily coverable on any mid or deep-set route.  Do I need to explain to you that no matter how "athletic" he is, he's not a threat at 300 pounds and only 6'2? He's actually short for the position as well which reduces his potential impact even more. Brandon Frazier is 6'6 or 6'7, Pegues is 6'2. Who's a bigger target? Being 100 pounds heavier than a DB isn't a "mismatch".

[DAG 33,993]

two of the most knowledgable

posters I know , engaging in conversation and discourse.

I actually feel lucky I get to read all of This content

[McLoofus 35,182]

13 minutes ago, metafour said:

Dude, you have the stats right there for you to look at. Who cares what game it came in? Its 7 catches for 57 yards LMAO. That is something that every single TE we have on the roster can accomplish. Even Shenker. That's the entire point. 

Pegues is extremely limited at TE....by virtue of being 300 pounds. He is limited to short area receptions. He is easily coverable on any mid or deep-set route.  Do I need to explain to you that no matter how "athletic" he is, he's not a threat at 300 pounds and only 6'2? He's actually short for the position as well which reduces his potential impact even more. Brandon Frazier is 6'6 or 6'7, Pegues is 6'2. Who's a bigger target? Being 100 pounds heavier than a DB isn't a "mismatch".

Question answered. The rest of this has been discussed to death, and literally nobody wants me talking about it anymore. Last word yours.

[auelvis87 96]

This thinking "outside the box" could be a disaster, but it sure is a lot more fun than watching players get forced into an overly simplistic offense that doesn't identify, adapt, or utilize their talents and skills.