U.S. Catholic Bishops: Biden Shouldn't Be Allowed to Take Communion Because of Abortion Views.

[CoffeeTiger 5,108]

https://apnews.com/article/health-coronavirus-government-and-politics-religion-22e0d1ba299fe8693013036e3cc85c81

Quote

 

When U.S. Catholic bishops hold their next national meeting in June, they’ll be deciding whether to send a tougher-than-ever message to President Joe Biden and other Catholic politicians: Don’t receive Communion if you persist in public advocacy of abortion rights.

At issue is a document that will be prepared for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops by its Committee on Doctrine, with the aim of clarifying the church’s stance on an issue that has repeatedly vexed the bishops in recent decades. It’s taken on new urgency now, in the eyes of many bishops, because Biden — only the second Catholic president — is the first to hold that office while espousing clear-cut support for abortion rights.

Such a stance, by a public figure, is “a grave moral evil,” according to Archbishop Joseph Naumann of Kansas City, Kansas, who chairs the USCCB’s Committee on Pro-Life Activities and believes it’s necessary to publicly rebuke Biden on the issue.

“Because President Biden is Catholic, it presents a unique problem for us,” Naumann told The Associated Press. “It can create confusion. ... How can he say he’s a devout Catholic and he’s doing these things that are contrary to the church’s teaching?”

The document, if approved, would make clear the USCCB’s view that Biden and other Catholic public figures with similar viewpoints should not present themselves for Communion, Naumann said.

In accordance with existing USCCB policy, it would still leave decisions on withholding Communion up to individual bishops. In Biden’s case, the top prelates of the jurisdictions where he frequently worships — Bishop W. Francis Malooly of Wilmington, Delaware, and Cardinal Wilton Gregory of Washington, D.C. — have made clear that Biden is welcome to receive Communion at churches they oversee.

The document-in-the-works results from a decision in November by the USCCB’s president, Archbishop José Gomez of Los Angeles, to form a working group to address the “complex and difficult situation” posed by Biden’s stances on abortion and other issues that differ from official church teaching. Before disbanding, the group proposed the drafting of a new document addressing the issue of Communion — a project assigned to the doctrine committee.

The committee has not released details about its work. Naumann said the matter will be discussed at the USCCB’s meeting in June and the bishops will vote on whether the committee should continue working on the document so it could be publicly released later.

A two-thirds majority would be needed for work to proceed, Naumann said. But even critics of the initiative, such as Bishop John Stowe of Lexington, Kentucky, predict the endeavor will win overwhelming approval.

Stowe is among a relatively small group of U.S. bishops who worry that the USCCB’s emphasis on abortion is undercutting Pope Francis’ exhortations for the church to also stress such issues as climate change, immigration and inequality. Stowe also worries that the U.S. bishops are missing a chance to find common ground with Biden on such issues.

“If a politician is targeted as a negative example by his own church, that sets a sad context in which the church can deal with this Catholic president,” Stowe said. “It contributes to the polarization of the church and of society.”

Bishop Robert McElroy of San Diego has expressed similar concerns.

“I do not see how depriving the president or other political leaders of the Eucharist based on their public policy stance can be interpreted in our society as anything other than a weaponization of the Eucharist ... to pummel them into submission,” McElroy said during an online forum in February.

Nonetheless, the bishops wanting to send a tough message to Biden are determined to press ahead.

“There’s a growing sense of urgency,” said San Francisco Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone. “Abortion is not just one among many important issues. ... It’s a direct attack on human life.”

Cordileone envisions a statement from the USCCB to Biden and others “that would move them in their conscience.”

“They need to understand the scandal that is caused when they say they are faithfully Catholic and yet oppose the church on such a basic concept,” he said.

American Cardinal Raymond Burke has broached the possibility of Catholicism’s ultimate sanction. He says politicians who “publicly and obstinately” support abortion are “apostates” who not only should be barred from receiving Communion but deserve excommunication.

Bishops already troubled by Biden’s stance on abortion grew more dismayed by three measures from his administration in mid-April.

It lifted restrictions on federal funding for research involving human fetal tissue. It rescinded a Trump administration policy barring organizations such as Planned Parenthood from receiving federal family planning grants if they also refer women for abortions. And it said women seeking an abortion pill will not be required to visit a doctor’s office or clinic during the COVID-19 pandemic, enabling women to get a prescription via telemedicine and receive the pill by mail.

Naumann, who issued strongly worded denunciations after each action, told AP he was frustrated that Biden could authorize those while identifying as a devout Catholic.

“He doesn’t have the authority to teach what it means to be Catholic — that’s our responsibility as bishops,” Naumann said, “Whether intentional or not, he’s trying to usurp our authority.”

The Vatican has not ruled on the specific matter of Communion and politicians supporting abortion in a major teaching document, though the church’s in-house canon law says people in a situation of persistent sin shouldn’t be allowed to receive Communion. It has also issued guidelines for the behavior of Catholics in political life exhorting them to uphold principles consistent with church doctrine.

The then-head of the Vatican’s doctrine office, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the future Pope Benedict XVI, told U.S. bishops in 2004 that priests “must” deny the sacrament if a politician goes to receive Communion despite an “obstinate persistence in manifest grave sin,” including the sin of consistently campaigning for permissive abortion laws.

Ratzinger wrote a confidential letter outlining the principles to U.S. bishops in response to their question about whether to deny Communion to John Kerry, who was the Democratic nominee for president. In the end the bishops ignored Ratzinger’s advice and voted instead for the policy currently in place allowing bishops to decide themselves whether to withhold it.

The document being drafted by the doctrine committee may contain some guidelines for bishops, Cordileone said, but it will not seek to strip their decision-making authority.

“This will put the burden of responsibility on Catholics who are prominent in public life,” he said.

Archbishop Samuel Aquila of Denver, who has sharply criticized Biden’s abortion stance, told the AP he favors creation of a national policy on Communion, as opposed to the current “patchwork approach.” He said bishops should first have a private conversation with an individual deemed to be in a state of sin, and deny Communion if they persist.

Edward Peters, who teaches canon law at Sacred Heart Major Seminary in Detroit, said the USCCB would have the option of seeking Vatican approval for a unified Communion policy applying to all bishops. But he doubted such a request would be made.

“The bishops’ conference does have broad responsibility to speak out on matters that impact the effectiveness and clarity of Church’s mission,” Peters said via email. “The bad example being given by some high-profile Catholics who consistently fail to protect innocent human life is surely one of those matters.”

Some Catholic academics are uneasy about the document.

“Are you really going to deny Communion for the president of the United States?” asked Margaret McGuinness, a religion professor at La Salle University in Philadelphia. “I don’t think this is going to shake his faith. ... I don’t see anything constructive coming out of it.”

She noted that a majority of U.S. Catholics, according to polls, say abortion should be legal in at least some cases.

Steven Millies, a professor of public theology at Catholic Theological Union in Chicago, said the Catholic church received significant financial support in recent years from conservative philanthropists who are skeptical of Francis and favored Donald Trump over Biden in the 2020 election.

“What we’re seeing now is an effort to please donors who want a church which will wage a culture war,” Millies said.

 

Interesting to see how this turn's out. Statistically, Catholics tend to be on the more progressive side of Christian groups, and as the article points out, many every day Catholics aren't actually totally against Abortion. 

Much like gay marriage 10-15 years ago, public opinion in America is slowly starting to skew from majority against to more in favor of some forms of Abortion legalization in general. Pretty much it's only the hyper conservative, evangelical Christians that are still 100% totally against any form of Abortion these days. 

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by CoffeeTiger

[PUB78 1,358]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

https://apnews.com/article/health-coronavirus-government-and-politics-religion-22e0d1ba299fe8693013036e3cc85c81

Interesting to see how this turn's out. Statistically, Catholics tend to be on the more progressive side of Christian groups, and as the article points out, many every day Catholics aren't actually totally against Abortion. 

Much like gay marriage 10-15 years ago, public opinion in America is slowly starting to skew from majority against to more in favor of some forms of Abortion legalization in general. Pretty much it's only the hyper conservative, evangelical Christians that are still 100% totally against any form of Abortion these days. 

 

Congratulations to the Bishops for sticking to their faith and beliefs.

I guess I am one of those “hyper conservatives, evangelical Christians” who oppose the murder of the unborn. I do think abortion should be allowed in the case of rape, incest or if the mothers life is in jeopardy.

[CoffeeTiger 5,108]

54 minutes ago, PUB78 said:

Congratulations to the Bishops for sticking to their faith and beliefs.

I guess I am one of those “hyper conservatives, evangelical Christians” who oppose the murder of the unborn. I do think abortion should be allowed in the case of rape, incest or if the mothers life is in jeopardy.

Why would rape or incest justify murder? How does a unlawful and/or sinful impregnation justify another action that is deemed itself to be a sin? 

 

EDIT: From my experience and from a quick google search to re-educate myself on what the current evangelical opinion on Abortion is, the accepted position that i can find seems to be that Abortion is 100% wrong in all situations regardless of how the pregnancy occurred. That a child is a gift from God and a child born to rape or incest should be viewed as a blessing from God rather than something to be hated, or not wanted. And if a mother dies in childbirth, that it's just part of God's plan and that we shouldn't kill the child just to protect the parent's life.

Basically, if you view Abortion as in any way murder on a religious or moral level then how is adding in any sort of qualifiers or "Buts" make it 'not' murder? 

Edited April 29, 2021 by CoffeeTiger

[TitanTiger 20,481]

This appears to be inaccurate:

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/247456/usccb-has-nothing-in-the-works-on-biden-and-communion

 

[DKW 86 7,423]

I bet we have seen someone post up this same type of article 5-6 times over the last 20 years. 

Does this sway anyone? Does it change anything anyone sees or believes?

[AUDub 11,148]

12 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

This appears to be inaccurate:

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/247456/usccb-has-nothing-in-the-works-on-biden-and-communion

 

"and at best ignorant of ecclesial structure"

Yeah, that.

Not to mention it would infuriate the laity. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,108]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

This appears to be inaccurate:

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/247456/usccb-has-nothing-in-the-works-on-biden-and-communion

 

Maybe I’m looking at this incorrectly, because I’m by no means an expert on the relatively complex structure of Catholic rules and doctrine, but although the article starts off saying the AP story is inaccurate, the rest of the article seems to basically repeat what the AP article said, but just without directly mentioning Biden by name. 

Both articles mention that there is a special committee group set up to deliver at the  Bishops summer meeting a report on recommendations of ‘fitness to receive communion’. The CNA article then says that the group has already let Biden know of their disagreements with his position on Abortion and then it lists a number of US bishops over the years who have specifically detailed their beliefs that Catholic politicians especially should be held to a high standard and should be denied communion if they do not Adide by Catholic doctrine or specifically if they support Abortion in any manner. 

From what I am reading the AP article and this CNA article are saying the same thing.

Now I will admit my title for this article is a little misleading as the real story is that ‘some’ Catholic Bishops believe Biden shouldn’t take communion and the summer committee will likely address the issue of politicians who support abortion taking communion and will release a report on it, but it’s unknown exactly what their recommendation will be. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by CoffeeTiger

[1716AU 728]

The last time I checked the scriptures, and I'm talking about the Greek, this is Jesus's table, not some jackass Roman's, or some Southern Baptist's. That means all are invited.

ALL. 

End of story.

Not just people you agree with. That is the difference between Jesus and religion.

[DKW 86 7,423]

"Religion" encompasses "Phony Christians" and just about every other "Religion" on the face of the Earth.

Christ confronted religion and especially the leadership straight in the face. If you can read the bible right, many of Christ's Interactions with the Pharisees and Saducees is pretty much in-yo-face sarcasm and smack talk. 

[AU9377 4,930]

On 4/29/2021 at 4:26 PM, PUB78 said:

Congratulations to the Bishops for sticking to their faith and beliefs.

I guess I am one of those “hyper conservatives, evangelical Christians” who oppose the murder of the unborn. I do think abortion should be allowed in the case of rape, incest or if the mothers life is in jeopardy.

Someone can be personally opposed to abortion, yet not in favor of jailing people, including doctors, for deciding that they want to have an abortion.  There are specific guidelines governing when someone can make that decision. For years, the issue has been used to herd votes more than anything else. The choice isn't an easy choice, but it isn't my choice to make and it certainly isn't an issue that should be decided by men.

The number of people on the far right that will excuse every money loving thing that DJT has ever done, yet question a man that has always been a devout Christian, Joe Biden, continues to amaze.

Edited May 3, 2021 by AU9377

[AUDub 11,148]

3 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

"Religion" encompasses "Phony Christians" and just about every other "Religion" on the face of the Earth.

Christ confronted religion and especially the leadership straight in the face. If you can read the bible right, many of Christ's Interactions with the Pharisees and Saducees is pretty much in-yo-face sarcasm and smack talk. 

Jesus: "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees"

*disciples don't take any bread*

Jesus: "Where's the bread?"

Disciples: "But you said-"

Jesus: *facepalm* "Come on, guys. Seriously?"

[1716AU 728]

Don't misconstrue here:

Jesus had no intention of establishing a religion.  But a way of life.  

Just fact.  And one many cannot handle.

[TexasTiger 12,858]

8 hours ago, 1716AU said:

Don't misconstrue here:

Jesus had no intention of establishing a religion.  But a way of life.  

Just fact.  And one many cannot handle.

He was also developing a line of sandals.

[AUDub 11,148]

By the way I'd avoid arguing this with Catholics online. Go up to most any Catholic IRL and mention this and the weaponization of the Eucharist by a coterie of right wing Bishops will not go over well with most.

Online though? This is an accurate reflection of our online presence. 

[AUDub 11,148]

Check out the sub r/catholicmemes for a dose of the droll horse hockey trad caths find funny. 

[ShocksMyBrain 9,364]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

He was also developing a line of sandals.

Were they Chacos? Because they are heaven on my feet. 

[aubearcat 2,137]

https://www.instagram.com/p/COeznQsji_l/?igshid=p7lq0oo1h299

and

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by aubearcat

[AUDub 11,148]

4 hours ago, aubearcat said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/COeznQsji_l/?igshid=p7lq0oo1h299

and

 

Sigh.

Never heard these objections when St. John Paul (whom Pope Benedict there Beatified!) was administering the Eucharist to pro-choice politicians like Tony Blair, who wasn't even Catholic at the time.

Face it, this coterie of Bishops is playing with the Eucharist like a political football.

As Pope Francis said, the Church is a field hospital for the wounded, not a damned club.

This is politics. All politics. It debases the Church.

[aubearcat 2,137]

1 hour ago, AUDub said:

Sigh.

Never heard these objections when St. John Paul (whom Pope Benedict there Beatified!) was administering the Eucharist to pro-choice politicians like Tony Blair, who wasn't even Catholic at the time.

Face it, this coterie of Bishops is playing with the Eucharist like a political football.

As Pope Francis said, the Church is a field hospital for the wounded, not a damned club.

This is politics. All politics. It debases the Church.

🤷🏻‍♂️ I didn’t say anything about that stuff. However, if you take bullet 3 from the Instagram post it pretty much says it all. I haven’t ever called out anyone for receiving or not. I have no way of knowing the communicants soul nor should I attempt to. I have to answer for what I do.  It’s between the communicant and God. However, if the Bishops feel the need to address an issue as a Shepherd of the Church, I think not only should they but are obliged to do so. 
 

Edited May 5, 2021 by aubearcat

[aubearcat 2,137]

22 hours ago, AUDub said:

 

As Pope Francis said, the Church is a field hospital for the wounded, not a damned club.

 

Quote

 

https://www.lifenews.com/2013/05/07/pope-francis-pro-abortion-politicians-ineligible-for-communion/

https://catholicexchange.com/pope-supports-excommunication-for-pro-abortion-politicians

This is also quite to the point. Please overlook the mention of the disgraceful McCarrick. 
 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by aubearcat

[AUDub 11,148]

59 minutes ago, aubearcat said:

https://www.lifenews.com/2013/05/07/pope-francis-pro-abortion-politicians-ineligible-for-communion/
https://catholicexchange.com/pope-supports-excommunication-for-pro-abortion-politicians

This is also quite to the point. Please overlook the mention of the disgraceful McCarrick.

There's a line between active encouragement and recognition of the fact that it is a right codified by law. Welcome to living in a lawful democracy. 

This is a damn shame because Catholics actually did have to confront a lot of bigotry in order get to where we are now. JFK had to assuage fears of "dual-loyalty" regarding how he would govern. "How can we vote for a guy who may govern in a manner contrary to our values because his soul is at stake!"  

This whole discussion does really bring up the question of whether Catholics can participate in lawful democracy at all or if we are committed to theocracy.  Maybe parts of the Magisterium are just fundamentally opposed to democracy, and the rest of us shouldn't vote for Catholics who run for office.  Like, for instance, Biden...

And the real conundrum is that I truly view elective abortion as an intrinsic evil and I've little doubt Biden does to. The question is what to we do to make it go away. Were Biden able to sign a bill making abortion illegal tomorrow, would that make abortion go away? Absolutely not. In fact, abortions tend to rise during pro-life administrations and fall during pro-choice administrations. This is a stone cold fact. In countries where abortion is illegal it borders on an epidemic. In countries where abortion is legal and there are social safety nets in place the numbers are far lower. 

We need to do more to address why people feel the need to abort in the first place.

As I've said in the past, I could get behind a total and complete ban on elective abortion, with some narrowly defined exceptions, if we had an effective welfare state/support system. As it is now, poverty, particularly if you’ve children already, is a trap that can not be easily escaped once you’re in its clutches.

This is the post I consider my opus on the matter:

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,108]

25 minutes ago, AUDub said:

There's a line between active encouragement and recognition of the fact that it is a right codified by law. Welcome to living in a lawful democracy. 

This is a damn shame because Catholics actually did have to confront a lot of bigotry in order get to where we are now. JFK had to assuage fears of "dual-loyalty" regarding how he would govern. "How can we vote for a guy who may govern in a manner contrary to our values because his soul is at stake!"  

This whole discussion does really bring up the question of whether Catholics can participate in lawful democracy at all or if we are committed to theocracy.  Maybe parts of the Magisterium are just fundamentally opposed to democracy, and the rest of us shouldn't vote for Catholics who run for office.  Like, for instance, Biden...

And the real conundrum is that I truly view elective abortion as an intrinsic evil and I've little doubt Biden does to. The question is what to we do to make it go away. Were Biden able to sign a bill making abortion illegal tomorrow, would that make abortion go away? Absolutely not. In fact, abortions tend to rise during pro-life administrations and fall during pro-choice administrations. This is a stone cold fact. In countries where abortion is illegal it borders on an epidemic. In countries where abortion is legal and there are social safety nets in place the numbers are far lower. 

We need to do more to address why people feel the need to abort in the first place.

As I've said in the past, I could get behind a total and complete ban on elective abortion, with some narrowly defined exceptions, if we had an effective welfare state/support system. As it is now, poverty, particularly if you’ve children already, is a trap that can not be easily escaped once you’re in its clutches.

This is the post I consider my opus on the matter:

 

 

Very interesting thoughts and discussion!

 

I was reading some recent articles and user comments on the issue of Abortion on National Review, and from what I read it does seem to be a prevailing opinion, at least among more Conservative leaning Catholics, that a Catholic leader or politician can't just personally oppose abortion, but must also do everything in their power to prevent the legalization and access to abortion for everyone. Essentially as you said, believing that a Catholic leader MUST lead and advocate for policies that are in accordance to Catholic Doctrine, regardless of government policies or popular sentiment,  or else they shouldn't be considered a true, practicing Catholics. 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

I do also agree with your belief that America's inadequate welfare system makes it unrealistically burdensome for poor women to keep and care for unplanned pregnancies.

How does the Catholic rejection of contraceptives and birth control come into play here? From what I understand, rejection of contraceptives is still official Catholic policy, but at the same time is not really followed by a majority of practicing Catholics. 

[aubearcat 2,137]

53 minutes ago, AUDub said:

There's a line between active encouragement and recognition of the fact that it is a right codified by law. Welcome to living in a lawful democracy. 

This is a damn shame because Catholics actually did have to confront a lot of bigotry in order get to where we are now. JFK had to assuage fears of "dual-loyalty" regarding how he would govern. "How can we vote for a guy who may govern in a manner contrary to our values because his soul is at stake!"  

This whole discussion does really bring up the question of whether Catholics can participate in lawful democracy at all or if we are committed to theocracy.  Maybe parts of the Magisterium are just fundamentally opposed to democracy, and the rest of us shouldn't vote for Catholics who run for office.  Like, for instance, Biden...

And the real conundrum is that I truly view elective abortion as an intrinsic evil and I've little doubt Biden does to. The question is what to we do to make it go away. Were Biden able to sign a bill making abortion illegal tomorrow, would that make abortion go away? Absolutely not. In fact, abortions tend to rise during pro-life administrations and fall during pro-choice administrations. This is a stone cold fact. In countries where abortion is illegal it borders on an epidemic. In countries where abortion is legal and there are social safety nets in place the numbers are far lower. 

We need to do more to address why people feel the need to abort in the first place.

As I've said in the past, I could get behind a total and complete ban on elective abortion, with some narrowly defined exceptions, if we had an effective welfare state/support system. As it is now, poverty, particularly if you’ve children already, is a trap that can not be easily escaped once you’re in its clutches.

This is the post I consider my opus on the matter:

 

I agree that there needs to be far better safety nets for unplanned/unexpected pregnancies. I also believe that Catholic politicians, and I am a practicing Catholic, should be more up front about their faith and how that will affect their political positions. As I’ve said before, my faith isn’t only my faith and belief while I’m at Mass, home, not at work.. etc. Our faith is supposed to be our guiding light and principle by which we live. If I’m a Catholic candidate, I advise my constituents that I’m going to work for pro-life policies but also work to enact policies that will help with problem and unplanned pregnancies. I don’t believe in attempting to force my beliefs on anyone but I also don’t want to compromise them either for the sake going along to get along. 

[AU9377 4,930]

So much concern over abortion, yet very little concern about the poor having adequate health care. Interesting

[aubearcat 2,137]

3 hours ago, AU9377 said:

So much concern over abortion, yet very little concern about the poor having adequate health care. Interesting

If you’re speaking about the topic at, The USCCB, you’re quite mistaken.