Russia vs Ukraine

[I_M4_AU 7,853]

Just now, homersapien said:

 

I suggest you come clean and own your statements before trying to lecture me on "comprehension".

I keep you active pretty much to use as a foil. (And you occasionally stumble upon a fact which gives me hope for you.)

But if you are going to simply lie about what you posted it's not worth my time to argue with you.

Good

[homersapien 11,385]

16 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Good

Can't stop lying then?

[I_M4_AU 7,853]

Here we go;

 

Things are about to get real.

[TexasTiger 12,947]

 

[SLAG-91 1,483]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

 

That's a whole 'nother level of courageous/stupid/whatever you want to call it...holy f.

That dude is just cut from a completely different cloth than most of us.

[GoAU 1,600]

3 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

"Ladies and Gentlemen: I give you the PCV, The Penis Compensation Vehicle."

Footnote: I drive a Mazda B3000 extended cab. My dozens of friends at a local boat and power sports dealer OPENLY Refer to these trucks as PCVs.

\

That's a whole lot of focusing on other people's junk right there.  I guess I've never given it much thought.  It's not my cup of tea to have a truck so high it becomes impractical, but I also never saw the point in lowering trucks either.   I tow with mine, so screwing with the suspension just isn't that smart.

It always kills me how people that preach diversity love to bag on people that enjoy different things.  For example, I wouldn't ever want to own an oversized golf cart (electric car) or something that isn't 4WD - but what works for me isn't what's right for someone else.  Not my decision, not my business.

 

 

43 minutes ago, SLAG-91 said:

That's a whole 'nother level of courageous/stupid/whatever you want to call it...holy f.

That dude is just cut from a completely different cloth than most of us.

Agreed - handling ordnance like that is either really brave or really dumb.  A lot of mines have anti-tampering devices that could have sent this guy to his maker in a hurry.  But I admire his compassion for getting it off the road before someone else found it the hard way.   Sure hope he marker it well when he carried it off into the woods....

[homersapien 11,385]

The "Ghost of Kiev".

Interesting, if true. (unlikely)

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by homersapien

[abw0004 10,125]

On 2/24/2022 at 11:27 PM, GoAU said:

Some definite truth there.  And he is correct about the improvements of the Ukrainian army.  Not sure when he interacted with the Russian army, but seems like “Cold War” Russia.  I know they have been doing a lot of modernization of their military hardware. Not sure how it’s affected training, but I’ve heard upgrading of military capabilities has been a point of emphasis since the campaign into Crimea

First of all, thank you for your service to this country and keeping us safe.

Second, being a former military serviceman, do you think Ukraine stands a chance of defending their country?  I worry because Russia has missiles and bombs which would trump the assault rifles the Ukraine Government is handing out.

[abw0004 10,125]

11 hours ago, homersapien said:

The "Ghost of Kiev".

Interesting, if true. (unlikely)

 

I think the jet was real, but my understanding was it was shot down in the first day.  Either way, I think that is incredibly heroic knowing what fate is waiting for you.

[GoAU 1,600]

46 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

First of all, thank you for your service to this country and keeping us safe.

Second, being a former military serviceman, do you think Ukraine stands a chance of defending their country?  I worry because Russia has missiles and bombs which would trump the assault rifles the Ukraine Government is handing out.

So, this is a very good question.  In a truly conventional war, no - the Ukrainian people are in a really bad place.  They are effectively blockaded from resupply from most directions, and in relatively short order the Russians can isolate the border with Poland and Hungary (or watch / attack any convoys once it enters the Ukraine). Their supplies will start to run out, especially as Kiev and the larger cities are cut off and under siege.  Things like this haven’t happened since WW2.  
 

The Ukrainian people are being exceptionally brave and this is what is surprising Putin and the rest of the world.  If they can hold out, as food and ammo start the dwindle, this is how they can “win”.  They need to drag this out and let the world and the Russian people put the pressure on Putin.  They need to make this a very unpopular war for Russia.  This will morph to a guerilla war as attrition takes its toll on the Ukrainian military.  Typically the morale and will to fight is much stronger for the defense than it is the offense.  It appears many Russian soldiers don’t even know why they are there.  With this being the case, they will lose the will to fight. 
 

I have 3 big concerns right now from a U.S. involvement perspective:

1) the US or a NATO member is hit by the Russians when trying to get supplies into the Ukraine 

2) As Putin sees the walls coming down around him, he gets desperate and elevates into something unsustainable (nukes, striking a NATO country, etc).  I don’t see his ego (or presidency) surviving a loss in the Ukraine.

3) Russian cyber attacks - as sanctions start to take their toll, Russian cyber attacks increase to retaliate against people supporting Ukraine. 
 

in short - I like the Ukrainian odds to not get re-absorbed into Russia, but I don’t see them winning a conventional war, if that makes sense?

Edited February 28, 2022 by GoAU

[jj3jordan 2,053]

22 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

You have a hard time seeing what is in front of you.  As YOU stated you did criticize him for specific actions (as I have with Biden) and go on to say criticizing a POTUS for any particular act or policy does not indicate you are against *unity or against the country’s interest* (same as what I am doing)

I also never implied you said the pandemic was caused by Trump, I did imply you were in the group that blamed him for 400,000 deaths by his policies concerning the pandemic.  After all it was the rallying cry of the Democratic Presidential Nominee at the time.

I regret you apparently can’t comprehend.

Homer was definitely in that camp and vilified Trump regularly. Now it appears he is walking it back since his president is now on the hook for way more covid deaths and that is with a vaccine. You are not misremembering.

[bigbird 60,557]

19 hours ago, SLAG-91 said:

That's a whole 'nother level of courageous/stupid/whatever you want to call it...holy f.

That dude is just cut from a completely different cloth than most of us.

Necessity

[TexasTiger 12,947]

Thread:

 

[autigeremt 6,642]

On 2/28/2022 at 8:17 AM, GoAU said:

So, this is a very good question.  In a truly conventional war, no - the Ukrainian people are in a really bad place.  They are effectively blockaded from resupply from most directions, and in relatively short order the Russians can isolate the border with Poland and Hungary (or watch / attack any convoys once it enters the Ukraine). Their supplies will start to run out, especially as Kiev and the larger cities are cut off and under siege.  Things like this haven’t happened since WW2.  
 

The Ukrainian people are being exceptionally brave and this is what is surprising Putin and the rest of the world.  If they can hold out, as food and ammo start the dwindle, this is how they can “win”.  They need to drag this out and let the world and the Russian people put the pressure on Putin.  They need to make this a very unpopular war for Russia.  This will morph to a guerilla war as attrition takes its toll on the Ukrainian military.  Typically the morale and will to fight is much stronger for the defense than it is the offense.  It appears many Russian soldiers don’t even know why they are there.  With this being the case, they will lose the will to fight. 
 

I have 3 big concerns right now from a U.S. involvement perspective:

1) the US or a NATO member is hit by the Russians when trying to get supplies into the Ukraine 

2) As Putin sees the walls coming down around him, he gets desperate and elevates into something unsustainable (nukes, striking a NATO country, etc).  I don’t see his ego (or presidency) surviving a loss in the Ukraine.

3) Russian cyber attacks - as sanctions start to take their toll, Russian cyber attacks increase to retaliate against people supporting Ukraine. 
 

in short - I like the Ukrainian odds to not get re-absorbed into Russia, but I don’t see them winning a conventional war, if that makes sense?

I agree. Ukraine is way overmatched militarily. Their biggest asset is homefield. Insurgency. 

[creed 1,640]

On 3/1/2022 at 7:54 PM, TexasTiger said:

Thread:

 

What I don't understand, and it may be due to media coverage, but why are we not seeing more coverage where the Ukrainian military is engaging the Russians. According to google Ukraine has the 2nd largest military in Europe, but all I'm seeing are people fleeing, negotiations for a cease fire, and people carry rifles. Where's the tanks, big guns, jets, etc. that represent what I think is an military. Based on what I'm seeing the media is making Ukraine look weak.

[CoffeeTiger 5,113]

1 hour ago, creed said:

What I don't understand, and it may be due to media coverage, but why are we not seeing more coverage where the Ukrainian military is engaging the Russians. According to google Ukraine has the 2nd largest military in Europe, but all I'm seeing are people fleeing, negotiations for a cease fire, and people carry rifles. Where's the tanks, big guns, jets, etc. that represent what I think is an military. Based on what I'm seeing the media is making Ukraine look weak.

 

Ukraine's military is large compared to other similarly sized European states, but it's not well funded or equipped, and most of it's tanks and motorized vehicles are outdated/ refurbished Soviet era stuff. 

Most of it's military on paper is listed as 'reserves' not deployed manpower, so im not sure how much of that they are actually able to field. 

 

When the US invaded Iraq, on paper Iraq had one of the largest militaries in the entire world, but that didn't stop it from being obliterated in a matter of days. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by CoffeeTiger

[TexasTiger 12,947]

 

[I_M4_AU 7,853]

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky chided the Biden administration for not slapping sanctions on Russia’s Vladimir Putin sooner, during an emotional Zoom call with 280 US senators and House members Saturday morning. 

“If you had started sanctions months ago, there would not have been war,” he said during the just under one-hour call, a Senate source told The Post. 

https://nypost.com/2022/03/05/ukrainian-president-volodymyr-zelensky-zooms-with-us-lawmakers/

 

[homersapien 11,385]

On 3/6/2022 at 9:23 AM, I_M4_AU said:

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky chided the Biden administration for not slapping sanctions on Russia’s Vladimir Putin sooner, during an emotional Zoom call with 280 US senators and House members Saturday morning. 

“If you had started sanctions months ago, there would not have been war,” he said during the just under one-hour call, a Senate source told The Post. 

https://nypost.com/2022/03/05/ukrainian-president-volodymyr-zelensky-zooms-with-us-lawmakers/

 

Well, at least Biden didn't hold up military aid trying to force Zelensky to investigate a potential political rival's son.

Edited March 7, 2022 by homersapien

[icanthearyou 4,463]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Well, at least Biden didn't hold up aid trying to force Zelensky to investigate a potential political rival's son.

Trump did not press Zelensky to investigate.  He told him he would get what he wanted when he publicly announced an investigation.

[homersapien 11,385]

9 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Trump did not press Zelensky to investigate.  He told him he would get what he wanted when he publicly announced an investigation.

Assuming you are serious, I don't see much of a distinction there.

 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Assuming you are serious, I don't see much of a distinction there.

 

I think it is a very important distinction.  I think it proves intent.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

6 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky chided the Biden administration for not slapping sanctions on Russia’s Vladimir Putin sooner, during an emotional Zoom call with 280 US senators and House members Saturday morning. 

“If you had started sanctions months ago, there would not have been war,” he said during the just under one-hour call, a Senate source told The Post. 

https://nypost.com/2022/03/05/ukrainian-president-volodymyr-zelensky-zooms-with-us-lawmakers/

 

Maybe but, I do not believe that is logical.  Preemptive sanctions would have put Putin in a "nothing to lose" situation.  I believe he would have been more reactive, used greater force.

[CoffeeTiger 5,113]

On 3/6/2022 at 8:23 AM, I_M4_AU said:

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky chided the Biden administration for not slapping sanctions on Russia’s Vladimir Putin sooner, during an emotional Zoom call with 280 US senators and House members Saturday morning. 

“If you had started sanctions months ago, there would not have been war,” he said during the just under one-hour call, a Senate source told The Post. 

https://nypost.com/2022/03/05/ukrainian-president-volodymyr-zelensky-zooms-with-us-lawmakers/

 

https://www.yahoo.com/video/ukraines-president-told-biden-calm-104928095.html

Biden told Zelensky on Thursday that a Russian invasion could happen as soon as February, when the ground freezes over, tweeted Emily Horne, White House National Security Council spokesperson.

However, Zelensky told Biden in the call that Ukraine did not agree with the US assessment, and that it was bringing panic that could later bring economic hardship to Ukraine, CNN reported, citing a senior Ukrainian official.

Zelensky also told Biden to "calm down the messaging," CNN reported, citing the official.

 

[I_M4_AU 7,853]

46 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

https://www.yahoo.com/video/ukraines-president-told-biden-calm-104928095.html

Biden told Zelensky on Thursday that a Russian invasion could happen as soon as February, when the ground freezes over, tweeted Emily Horne, White House National Security Council spokesperson.

However, Zelensky told Biden in the call that Ukraine did not agree with the US assessment, and that it was bringing panic that could later bring economic hardship to Ukraine, CNN reported, citing a senior Ukrainian official.

Zelensky also told Biden to "calm down the messaging," CNN reported, citing the official.

 

The moral of that story is hindsight is 20/20.