Then: "We are a sanctuary city!!!!" Today: "NIMBY!"

[I_M4_AU 7,839]

Just now, AUDub said:

There's no "closing" the border. 

I didn’t say close the border, but control the border.

[Leftfield 2,601]

2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I didn’t say close the border, but control the border.

One positive from this thread....you finally learned to spell border correctly.

[AUDub 11,149]

11 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I didn’t say close the border, but control the border.

We are. Lottttt of folks being detained. But it's ultimately a problem that has no easy solution. There's just too many.

And you can't really blame people fleeing a socialist hellhole like Venezuela. 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

2 hours ago, bigbird said:

What do I care about the impact of invasive species?

Comparing human beings to an "invasive species" is disgusting.

[I_M4_AU 7,839]

8 minutes ago, AUDub said:

We are. Lottttt of folks being detained. But it's ultimately a problem that has no easy solution. There's just too many.

And you can't really blame people fleeing a socialist hellhole like Venezuela. 

They are being detained in a border town that can’t handle the amount of people being detained.  What do you do especially if the government will not give you resources?  You ship them to Sanctuary Cities.  Remember, over the summer Biden shipped these people on charter flights to cities across the nation.  What is the difference between what Biden did and the Governors of Texas, Arizona and Florida?

[arein0 956]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

When did the problem start to exponentially get worse?  Under who’s watch?  Could Biden do something to alleviate the numbers of illegal boarder crossing?  How about the fentanyl issue?  Human trafficking?  It’s not just about illegals arriving in Martha’s Vineyard.

Could there be a case for Desantis and Abbott to be tried for Human Trafficking?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/09/15/desantis-abbott-migrants-legality/

What the law says about DeSantis and Abbott sending migrants to blue states

September 15, 2022 at 5:20 p.m. EDT

Republican Govs. Ron DeSantis of Florida and Greg Abbott of Texas are turning migrants into political pawns — quite literally — by moving them to liberal areas to try making a point about border security. DeSantis on Wednesday flew dozens of migrants to Martha’s Vineyard in Massachusetts, while Abbott on Thursday announced that he had bused yet more of them to the vice-presidential residence in Washington.

Amid claims that some of those migrants might not have participated willingly or might have been misled, critics are raising questions about the legality of these efforts, likening them to human trafficking.

But legal experts say too little is known at this point to draw any firm conclusions.

In some cases, the migrants have said they were grateful to be transported to places where they’d get more assistance, or just closer to their final destinations. But after Abbott sent other migrants to Chicago this week, Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker (D) on Wednesday said state and local authorities were examining whether the effort could lead to “criminal liability.” He pointedly raised the issue of whether the migrants might not have “willingly” boarded the buses, saying they appeared to have signed waivers but suggesting they might not have understood.

Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot (D) raised the prospect of coercion: “I believe that they have been misled, and the only option for them that they’ve been presented by the folks in Texas is a free bus ride.”

Abbott spokeswoman Renae Eze told The Washington Post the migrants were indeed willing participants: “These migrants willingly chose to go to Chicago, having signed a voluntary consent waiver available in multiple languages upon boarding that they agreed on the destination,” Eze said.

These issues have now also been raised amid DeSantis flying migrants from Texas to Martha’s Vineyard. Some said a woman identified as “Perla” told them they were headed to Boston for expedited work papers. Massachusetts state Sen. Julian Cyr (D) also told The Washington Post’s Greg Sargent that he had been told that a “woman approached them outside the shelter and essentially lured them into taking the plane.”

Very little is known at this point. But some critics have compared the situations to human trafficking or smuggling and pointed to definitions of those words and criminal statutes. One smuggling statute, 8 U.S. Code § 1324, makes it illegal if someone:

“knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, transports, or moves or attempts to transport or move such alien within the United States by means of transportation or otherwise, in furtherance of such violation of law”

The last part of the statute is key; it means transporting the migrants must assist them in violating the law in some way. But the Texas program is supposed to require participants to have been processed and released by the Department of Homeland Security, meaning it’s not clear transportation would be helping them violate the law.

Bridgette Carr, a professor at the University of Michigan Law School who specializes in these issues, also said it was possible that a governor or those acting on their behalf might be insulated from potential violations.

“The issue here is whether there is any provision which gives immunity to government officials to move people who entered the country illegally,” Carr said, noting that U.S. Border Patrol, for one, is allowed to transport such migrants. She added: “However, I would be curious if that immunity extends beyond federal officials, since immigration is generally a power the feds regulate exclusively.”

Sarah Sherman-Stokes, who teaches immigration law at Boston University School of Law and is helping set up legal clinics for the migrants now in Martha’s Vineyard, said, “It’s possible that this [statute] fits.”

“I think there are some questions about whether DeSantis is acting in his capacity as an elected official or personally,” she said, calling the process of transporting the migrants “opaque.”

The bigger issue might be if it can be proven that anyone was misled or transported against their will, both experts said.

Sherman-Stokes said, if that’s the case, it would bring things “perilously close to human trafficking. But it’s not clear to me, on these facts, that it’s more like human trafficking or like smuggling.”

She noted that human trafficking requires force, fraud or coercion and for the people to have been exploited — though it’s not clear political exploitation would qualify: “Clearly, DeSantis is exploiting them for political gain, but I’m not sure that rises to the level of human trafficking.”

Carr added: “The missing link here is that the fraud needs tie to a commercial benefit for someone (i.e. DeSantis).”

But thus far, we don’t have any evidence for that beyond the migrants’ suggestions of being misled and the words of Democrats critical of the program. Illinois Attorney General Kwame Raoul’s (D) office referred questions to Pritzker’s office, which hasn’t responded to a request for further detail.

 

A Twitter account tied to DeSantis’s 2022 reelection campaign fought against the human trafficking rhetoric Thursday, comparing what DeSantis had done to the Biden administration flying migrants around the country. (The federal government, as noted above, is responsible for enforcing immigration law.)

DeSantis gubernatorial spokesman Jeremy Redfern also responded to criticisms that DeSantis didn’t give local officials advance warning: “Do the cartels that smuggle humans call Florida or Texas before illegal immigrants wash up on our shores or cross over the border? No,” he said on Twitter. (DeSantis’s office didn’t respond to a request for further comment Thursday afternoon.)

Sherman-Stokes said that while much remains unknown, “This very well might be legal with a capital L.” She said that doesn’t change the real point, though, which is that the tactic is “pernicious” and “horrific political theater that is playing with people’s lives.”

Carr added: “Unfortunately, I can’t think of a law that says, ‘We can criminally charge you for being a jerk to vulnerable people for your own political gain.’ I wish we did.”

[I_M4_AU 7,839]

Just now, arein0 said:

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

 

Could there be a case for Desantis and Abbott to be tried for Human Trafficking?

The DOJ would not have the balls to do that.  It would literally be the end of democracy and the beginning of a Gestapo state.

[AUDub 11,149]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

They are being detained in a border town that can’t handle the amount of people being detained.  What do you do especially if the government will not give you resources?  You ship them to Sanctuary Cities.  Remember, over the summer Biden shipped these people on charter flights to cities across the nation.  What is the difference between what Biden did and the Governors of Texas, Arizona and Florida?

The places Biden sent them knew they were coming. 

Loading a bunch of people on a plane and dumping them on a resort during the off-season with no warning is not the same. 

[I_M4_AU 7,839]

1 minute ago, AUDub said:

The places Biden sent them knew they were coming. 

Loading a bunch of people on a plane and dumping them on a resort during the off-season with no warning is not the same. 

Ok

[AUDub 11,149]

6 minutes ago, arein0 said:

Could there be a case for Desantis and Abbott to be tried for Human Trafficking?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/09/15/desantis-abbott-migrants-legality/

What the law says about DeSantis and Abbott sending migrants to blue states

September 15, 2022 at 5:20 p.m. EDT

Republican Govs. Ron DeSantis of Florida and Greg Abbott of Texas are turning migrants into political pawns — quite literally — by moving them to liberal areas to try making a point about border security. DeSantis on Wednesday flew dozens of migrants to Martha’s Vineyard in Massachusetts, while Abbott on Thursday announced that he had bused yet more of them to the vice-presidential residence in Washington.

Amid claims that some of those migrants might not have participated willingly or might have been misled, critics are raising questions about the legality of these efforts, likening them to human trafficking.

But legal experts say too little is known at this point to draw any firm conclusions.

In some cases, the migrants have said they were grateful to be transported to places where they’d get more assistance, or just closer to their final destinations. But after Abbott sent other migrants to Chicago this week, Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker (D) on Wednesday said state and local authorities were examining whether the effort could lead to “criminal liability.” He pointedly raised the issue of whether the migrants might not have “willingly” boarded the buses, saying they appeared to have signed waivers but suggesting they might not have understood.

Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot (D) raised the prospect of coercion: “I believe that they have been misled, and the only option for them that they’ve been presented by the folks in Texas is a free bus ride.”

Abbott spokeswoman Renae Eze told The Washington Post the migrants were indeed willing participants: “These migrants willingly chose to go to Chicago, having signed a voluntary consent waiver available in multiple languages upon boarding that they agreed on the destination,” Eze said.

These issues have now also been raised amid DeSantis flying migrants from Texas to Martha’s Vineyard. Some said a woman identified as “Perla” told them they were headed to Boston for expedited work papers. Massachusetts state Sen. Julian Cyr (D) also told The Washington Post’s Greg Sargent that he had been told that a “woman approached them outside the shelter and essentially lured them into taking the plane.”

Very little is known at this point. But some critics have compared the situations to human trafficking or smuggling and pointed to definitions of those words and criminal statutes. One smuggling statute, 8 U.S. Code § 1324, makes it illegal if someone:

“knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, transports, or moves or attempts to transport or move such alien within the United States by means of transportation or otherwise, in furtherance of such violation of law”

The last part of the statute is key; it means transporting the migrants must assist them in violating the law in some way. But the Texas program is supposed to require participants to have been processed and released by the Department of Homeland Security, meaning it’s not clear transportation would be helping them violate the law.

Bridgette Carr, a professor at the University of Michigan Law School who specializes in these issues, also said it was possible that a governor or those acting on their behalf might be insulated from potential violations.

“The issue here is whether there is any provision which gives immunity to government officials to move people who entered the country illegally,” Carr said, noting that U.S. Border Patrol, for one, is allowed to transport such migrants. She added: “However, I would be curious if that immunity extends beyond federal officials, since immigration is generally a power the feds regulate exclusively.”

Sarah Sherman-Stokes, who teaches immigration law at Boston University School of Law and is helping set up legal clinics for the migrants now in Martha’s Vineyard, said, “It’s possible that this [statute] fits.”

“I think there are some questions about whether DeSantis is acting in his capacity as an elected official or personally,” she said, calling the process of transporting the migrants “opaque.”

The bigger issue might be if it can be proven that anyone was misled or transported against their will, both experts said.

Sherman-Stokes said, if that’s the case, it would bring things “perilously close to human trafficking. But it’s not clear to me, on these facts, that it’s more like human trafficking or like smuggling.”

She noted that human trafficking requires force, fraud or coercion and for the people to have been exploited — though it’s not clear political exploitation would qualify: “Clearly, DeSantis is exploiting them for political gain, but I’m not sure that rises to the level of human trafficking.”

Carr added: “The missing link here is that the fraud needs tie to a commercial benefit for someone (i.e. DeSantis).”

But thus far, we don’t have any evidence for that beyond the migrants’ suggestions of being misled and the words of Democrats critical of the program. Illinois Attorney General Kwame Raoul’s (D) office referred questions to Pritzker’s office, which hasn’t responded to a request for further detail.

 

A Twitter account tied to DeSantis’s 2022 reelection campaign fought against the human trafficking rhetoric Thursday, comparing what DeSantis had done to the Biden administration flying migrants around the country. (The federal government, as noted above, is responsible for enforcing immigration law.)

DeSantis gubernatorial spokesman Jeremy Redfern also responded to criticisms that DeSantis didn’t give local officials advance warning: “Do the cartels that smuggle humans call Florida or Texas before illegal immigrants wash up on our shores or cross over the border? No,” he said on Twitter. (DeSantis’s office didn’t respond to a request for further comment Thursday afternoon.)

Sherman-Stokes said that while much remains unknown, “This very well might be legal with a capital L.” She said that doesn’t change the real point, though, which is that the tactic is “pernicious” and “horrific political theater that is playing with people’s lives.”

Carr added: “Unfortunately, I can’t think of a law that says, ‘We can criminally charge you for being a jerk to vulnerable people for your own political gain.’ I wish we did.”

Won't happen 

 

[autigeremt 6,631]

47 minutes ago, AUDub said:

We are. Lottttt of folks being detained. But it's ultimately a problem that has no easy solution. There's just too many.

And you can't really blame people fleeing a socialist hellhole like Venezuela. 

STOP. There is a solution....but our government is too lazy (on purpose) to fix it. We have been since the 80's. Another !#$% political football used in the game we all get to witness playing out every day in D/C

[AUDub 11,149]

Just now, autigeremt said:

There is a solution

Let's hear this "easy" solution 

[autigeremt 6,631]

Just now, AUDub said:

Let's hear this "easy" solution 

I'm not a Rep or Senator...and I don't have the power nor the "vote" to do a damn thing about it. Ask your Congress person or Senator. They are the problem. 

[AUDub 11,149]

2 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

I'm not a Rep or Senator...and I don't have the power nor the "vote" to do a damn thing about it. Ask your Congress person or Senator. They are the problem. 

Ah, your usual vagueries.

[autigeremt 6,631]

Just now, AUDub said:

Ah, your usual vagueries.

Are you serious? Of course you are. The trees are in the way. 

[I_M4_AU 7,839]

Crisis avoided and it only took 24 hours:

 

 

[AUDub 11,149]

39 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

Are you serious? Of course you are. The trees are in the way. 

You're either a troll or profoundly stupid

[icanthearyou 4,463]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Crisis avoided and it only took 24 hours:

 

 

Looking to Ted Cruz for honesty, integrity, morality, ethical behavior is a mistake.  The man is bankrupt.

[bigbird 60,529]

1 hour ago, icanthearyou said:

Comparing human beings to an "invasive species" is disgusting.

If you can't see the similarities and are unwilling to understand what was meant, then that's on you.

FTR, what do you think Native Americans think of us? 

Get over your feigned outrage.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Just now, bigbird said:

If you can't see the similarities and are unwilling to understand what was meant, then that's on you 

No, dehumanizing others is simply wrong. 

[bigbird 60,529]

Just now, icanthearyou said:

No, dehumanizing others is simply wrong. 

No one dehumanized them. And I don't accept your mischaracterization.  

 

In fact, I didn't compare the two in any way and to try and force that perspective is beyond sad 

So again, get over your feigned outrage.

[autigeremt 6,631]

24 minutes ago, AUDub said:

You're either a troll or profoundly stupid

Profoundly stupid. Thank you Auburn University for the low hanging education. 

[AUDub 11,149]

36 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Crisis avoided and it only took 24 hours:

 

 

If it wasn't for bad faith, these people would have no faith. 

 

[autigeremt 6,631]

You would hope this would lead to some pointed discussion BY the US Government on how to install border integrity and adhering to current immigration law while at the same time working to address the massive migration issue that we have been seeing play out over four decades. Instead we are worried more about optics and playing political games....and hiring more IRS agents. Maybe we need 50,000 immigration personnel to attend to all of these future voters? 

 

=

[DKW 86 7,425]

4 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

https://vineyardgazette.com/news/2022/09/15/vineyard-community-rallies-relief-efforts-assist-stranded-migrants

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/16/us/marthas-vineyard-community-response-migrants/index.html

https://www.wcvb.com/article/venezuelan-migrants-flown-to-marthas-vineyard-being-offered-shelter-support-on-cape-cod/41244254#

 

 

Looks more like the Residents are coming together to offer support to the migrants as best they can rather than co0mplaining or being NIMBY. 

 

This move by DeSantis may excite his Republican/Conservative base, but I think stuff like this will ultimately backfire on him by turning off moderates and independents who don't like seeing politicians using real, vulnerable people like cattle and political tools. 

 

Let’s see how they react when there are about 5K worth of illegals at the corner. These folks literally have no idea what people near the border see everyday.