Border/Immigration Policy

[TexasTiger 13,006]

What should be done? What does a “controlled border” look like? How is it achieved? How do you fund what you propose?

How does immigration impact border management? How should the policies be revised?

Should we have more legal immigration? Less? How should it be structured? Who gets in? 
 

I think border control and immigration policy are inextricably linked. The biggest flood of folks now are asylum seekers. That’s the first thing I’d address.

[I_M4_AU 7,971]

Is there a good definition of asylum that we have right now?  It is my understanding if the immigrant can utter certain key words or phrases they are in.  Then the US is obligated to investigate and determine if the asylum is warranted.  The border is overwhelmed and the immigrants know this, so we are our own worst enemy.

Reform would have to establish an honest assessment of why these immigrants are seeking asylum, not just because they say so.

Remain in Mexico was a good policy and I am not sure where that stands.

[homersapien 11,440]

4 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Is there a good definition of asylum that we have right now?  It is my understanding if the immigrant can utter certain key words or phrases they are in.  Then the US is obligated to investigate and determine if the asylum is warranted.  The border is overwhelmed and the immigrants know this, so we are our own worst enemy.

Reform would have to establish an honest assessment of why these immigrants are seeking asylum, not just because they say so.

Remain in Mexico was a good policy and I am not sure where that stands.

Unless they're from Cuba. 

[DKW 86 7,440]

17 hours ago, homersapien said:

Unless they're from Cuba. 

Not being coonfrontational, but...Being from Cuba should be automatic refugee status. The problem at the Mexico Border is that they are coming from ElSalvador, Ecuador, Guatemala, etc. How do you determine refugee status from there? Or even if they are actually from there?

[autigeremt 6,683]

11 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Not being coonfrontational, but...Being from Cuba should be automatic refugee status. The problem at the Mexico Border is that they are coming from ElSalvador, Ecuador, Guatemala, etc. How do you determine refugee status from there? Or even if they are actually from there?

Easy! Just ask what their expected voting status will be. 😂 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

This is not a border security problem.  This is a global finance problem.  This is a multinational corporate taxation problem.  This is a power, greed, exploitation problem.

[I_M4_AU 7,971]

7 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

This is not a border security problem.  This is a global finance problem.  This is a multinational corporate taxation problem.  This is a power, greed, exploitation problem.

If we all were global citizens this maybe true, but we’re not.  IMO coming to the US to enjoy a better economy is not a refugee.  Those people should go through the normal immigration procedure.

[GoAU 1,600]

I think the answer is significantly easier than people try to make it.  
 

1) Crossing in an uncontrolled manner at anyplace other than a designated port of entry is a crime and needs to be treated as such.  
2) Asylum is supposed to be taken in a neighboring country - coming from Guatemala shouldn’t be allowed.  
3) I am all for legal immigration, but people that plan on starting their journey to the US by disregarding our laws is not a good idea. 

4) Falling to enforce our laws and turning a blind eye to our border security should absolutely be a criminal / impeachable offense.  The danger to the nation is real - we have no idea who is coming in, from criminals terrorists, drugs and human trafficking - all of this is magnified significantly when we turn a blind eye to the border.  
5) The burden / impact to the border states is real, and amplified by the handling of the situation by the current administration.  

[autigeremt 6,683]

10 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

This is not a border security problem.  This is a global finance problem.  This is a multinational corporate taxation problem.  This is a power, greed, exploitation problem.

No. It’s a border security problem. 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

We are so well conditioned, so well trained.  We can never put the responsibility where it belongs.  We must always blame the poor and powerless.

Never, ever can we blame those masters of the world, those capitalists, those who control global finance.  We must believe they represent the best of us.

We can never, ever admit that greed is truly our only driving principle.  The capitalists have driven our foreign policy since WWII, not for the benefit of our country but,,, for their own benefit.

This is NOT a border security issue.  I don't expect those who have fallen into the echo chamber to understand or, even contemplate.  Their security lies in their training, their belief system, their feelings of superiority, their lack of humanity.

There is a reason why they want you to fear the power of government.  That fear enhances the power of capital.  There is a reason why they want to destroy the power of government.  The power of government is the only check and balance on the power of capital.  We have been played like a fiddle.  We bought into an idiotic binary choice.  We are fools destroying the very government, nation we claim to cherish.  We are ignorant to the true nature of power.  We are ignorant as to who represents power.  We unwittingly support the power that is actively weakening our society.

 

[aubiefifty 16,903]

there is a trilogy out called the power of the dog by don winslow. it is called the greatest crime novel of the century since the godfather. great read but long and based on historical with some fiction thrown in. if anyone read this it would break your heart for the little people just trying to save their family. and i bet every single person on this board would try to find better for their wife and family. i mean it is heart breaking stuff. remember our DEA agent they tortured and murdered? they had a doctor on hand to keep him alive so he could suffer longer while they peeled the skin off his bones. that is true. they turn children who have not reached puberty yet into prostitutes. it is very heart breaking stuff. what baffles me is we are a christian nation and we turn our back on these desperate people while making fun of them. santos is a prime example. playing with peoples lives who are desperate just to live. it is heartbreaking. i am not sure what the solution is but we can do much better. but then  they come from thos sh*thole countries so they mean little to folks. my point is jesus would not be happy about this at all. but repubs are great at hate anyway. many of you. i saw that during the trump years.

[auburnatl1 5,023]

Everybody is going to go crazy with “fair”. It’s not far some are much smarter, more athletic, more ambitious, more attractive, born in the right country, the right family, ect.  So do you let the least athletic little league kid play short stop? Sure it feels good but the entire team looses every game.  Fix one thing, break eight. It’s not fair Mexico and Latin American’s  have a land bridge to sneak in  but Africa, India, Thailand refuges don’t - and they’re way worse off.  Who gonna choose fair? Understandably and admirably people feel guilty about it. And we want to fix the planet and save everyone.  Ps the planets a whole lot bigger then us.

Bottom line.  A country defines itself by borders and citizenship.  They must be absolute and stabilized. Step 1 fix and lock down the border  - that’s what a country is Step 2: start stabilizing the U.S. economy so we don’t go under as well  - we’re in debt for generations already Step 3: then you can debate  fair and how most practically,  equitably, and FAIRLY help other countries.

[bigbird 60,580]

Any work on securing the border needs to be in conjunction with a naturalization overhaul.  Two things can be true at the same time. 

The border needs to be secured. Period.  Every government and military institution had a ECP installed after 9/11. There is a reason for that.

The path to citizenship is way too long, convoluted, bureaucratic, and expensive. It's undermanned and corrupt.  Shorten, clearly define, and remove some of the "personal" from the process.

The border states are truly being impacted but it's hard to get people in Vermont to care about illegal immigration. There aren't a ton of Canadians lined up to sneak across. The country has been let down again by our government. It's not a R/D thing. 

[AUDub 11,182]

On 12/30/2022 at 8:13 AM, DKW 86 said:

Not being coonfrontational, but...Being from Cuba should be automatic refugee status. The problem at the Mexico Border is that they are coming from ElSalvador, Ecuador, Guatemala, etc. How do you determine refugee status from there? Or even if they are actually from there?

A lot of them are coming from Venezuela too, every bit the socialist hell hole Cuba is. 

[TexasTiger 13,006]

On 12/31/2022 at 8:01 PM, GoAU said:

I think the answer is significantly easier than people try to make it.  
 

1) Crossing in an uncontrolled manner at anyplace other than a designated port of entry is a crime and needs to be treated as such.  
2) Asylum is supposed to be taken in a neighboring country - coming from Guatemala shouldn’t be allowed.  
3) I am all for legal immigration, but people that plan on starting their journey to the US by disregarding our laws is not a good idea. 

4) Falling to enforce our laws and turning a blind eye to our border security should absolutely be a criminal / impeachable offense.  The danger to the nation is real - we have no idea who is coming in, from criminals terrorists, drugs and human trafficking - all of this is magnified significantly when we turn a blind eye to the border.  
5) The burden / impact to the border states is real, and amplified by the handling of the situation by the current administration.  

What is this assertion based on?

2) Asylum is supposed to be taken in a neighboring country - coming from Guatemala shouldn’t be allowed.  

[TexasTiger 13,006]

On 12/30/2022 at 8:13 AM, DKW 86 said:

Not being coonfrontational, but...Being from Cuba should be automatic refugee status.

Why?

[auburnatl1 5,023]

41 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Why?

I agree. Why? I was born and grew up in Miami in the 60s.  Initially after Castro took power,, every doctor, lawyer, engineer, professor, ect was at risk.  Marxist doctrine 101 - purge the wealthy and educated. So it made sense to offer them asylum status. Ps it’s why the Cuban’s were always politically different than the other Hispanic nationalities in the US.

However, Cuba stopped the purge stuff  long ago (the massive brain drain almost sent thm back to the Stone Age).  Their circumstances today are absolutely no different than any other Latin American country.

[TexasTiger 13,006]

8 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

I agree. Why? I was born and grew up in Miami in the 60s.  Initially after Castro took power,, every doctor, lawyer, engineer, professor, ect was at risk.  Marxist doctrine 101 - purge the wealthy and educated. So it made sense to offer them asylum status. Ps it’s why the Cuban’s were always politically different than the other Hispanic nationalities in the US.

However, Cuba stopped the purge stuff  long ago (the massive brain drain almost sent thm back to the Stone Age).  Their circumstances today are absolutely no different than any other Latin American country.

It’s archaic as is our entire Cuba policy. When I listen to Ted Cruz & Marco Rubio pontificate on “illegal immigrants” doing exactly what their parents did, I find it obscenely hypocritical. The only difference is a separate set of rules for one country.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

We supported Cuba under a fascist dictator.  We did not support Cuba under a communist dictator.

We have supported dictators who would allow us to economically exploit their countries.  This is much of our 20th century foreign policy.  The world has to do things our way or,,, they have to go it all alone (a near impossibility considering the power of the dollar as world reserve currency).

We claim to support democracy, freedom.  We support neither.  We support greed.  Our chickens have come home to roost.