Feelings on this model of CFB

[AUght2win 6,883]

6 hours ago, DAG said:

Yeah I actually ran division 1 track, which like Baseball , you rarely get full blown rides. 

First off, that’s awesome DAG I’m guessing it wasn’t AU or we would already know that? What school? Wisky? 

Secondly, track is one of the sports entirely propped up by football/basketball money. I would think every bus ride, hotel room, meal, event, etc. you guys had was taken from the money made from the big 2. 

That’s been one argument I’ve had - if they start giving football/basketball players a large chunk of the pie from those sports’ revenue, all the less popular sports will go under overnight.

[AUght2win 6,883]

2 hours ago, Tiger Refuge said:

I got news for some of y’all. The bidding for some players’ loyalty/services has been going on for a while. We are just now standing in the window of the sausage making factory for the first time, and a lot of fans feel betrayed. 

“That’s how the sausage is being made now!? That’s not how it was made back in my day!”

We are still gonna get players that want to come and play at Auburn because they love the school. We are gonna get players that come because of NIL, and end of falling in love with Auburn. 
 

Shocking, I know.

No. Not really.

The sausage has never been “come play at Auburn for 6 months and make 500k”. It’s never been THAT weighted toward purely money. Like I said earlier, it used to be you had to like a place enough to commit to it for 3 years minimum. Now you can put in 6 months at a place and earn six figures.   It IS different.

[Tiger Refuge 6,675]

35 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

No. Not really.

The sausage has never been “come play at Auburn for 6 months and make 500k”. It’s never been THAT weighted toward purely money. Like I said earlier, it used to be you had to like a place enough to commit to it for 3 years minimum. Now you can put in 6 months at a place and earn six figures.   It IS different.

Yes, it’s obviously different. But this idea that something pure has suddenly been sullied is also not true.

 

*edit to add- I realize that all of this discussion is centered around “feelings”, so this discussion is a never ending rabbit hole.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Tiger Refuge

[DAG 34,034]

2 hours ago, AUght2win said:

First off, that’s awesome DAG I’m guessing it wasn’t AU or we would already know that? What school? Wisky? 

Secondly, track is one of the sports entirely propped up by football/basketball money. I would think every bus ride, hotel room, meal, event, etc. you guys had was taken from the money made from the big 2. 

That’s been one argument I’ve had - if they start giving football/basketball players a large chunk of the pie from those sports’ revenue, all the less popular sports will go under overnight.

I’ve always respected your opinion on things and although slightly disagree, do appreciate that you do give sound reasoning and an actual solution 

It is an interesting conundrum they are in collegiately

Also I ran track at Wisconsin! You are exactly right btw. Very rare that you got a full ride. I got 75 percent of mine covered for athletics. The other 25 percent was from academics (that I applied for) . A good bit of our runners did not have any covered. Majority of the full scholarships go to our long distant runners (which they earned).

So yes, football for sure propped us up.

Edited May 8, 2023 by DAG

[Hank2020 3,223]

4 hours ago, WillMunny said:

This is my feeling as well.  I'm 60 years old and remember when players would do anything to have the honor of wearing an Auburn jersey on game day.  Kinda like my decision to attend AU when I couldn't afford it.  I didn't care - I just wanted to be an AU student and alumnus more than I wanted anything else, money (expenses) be damned.

It was a different feeling back then.  For me, a better feeling.

I understand the argument that "today college football is a multi-billion dollar business and the coaches and others are making millions...".  Well, years ago when the coaches and others started to make those millions, I was opposed to it.  The first question in my mind was "where does this go?".  Well, we're now seeing where it went.

The closer this moves toward "Minor League Football", the less I like it and the less I watch it.  But I'm old, and younger people seem somewhat willing to accept the new model.  To each his own.

Until there is a better option, I will continue to watch. I don’t give to NIL so doesn’t really impact my pocket. I don’t even go to games anymore mostly bc I see things better on TV. I didn’t mostly know any players so got to know each years team as they have always changed. I don’t see how we see the impacts to players physically and mentally and not applaud players getting some of the money. I just think it would great if somehow we could land on coaches getting a piece with players also getting a piece. When we understand some of the impacts to players (Beasley for instance) it glares the need to pay for play. We are doing that right now with NIL for some portion of the players but not all.

[fishepa 1,911]

My opinion is that social media has played a big part in changes to college athletics, not mention just society in general, and not in a good way IMO.  But that's a another topic.  As other's have said, times change and you just have to accept it and move on.

[AUloggerhead 2,267]

And now, for the violent torpedo of truth:  Transferring & the portal have revolutionized college football ... for the better.  An athlete who has confidence in their abilities no longer has to endure sitting on the bench for the duration of their college career waiting for "their moment."  The most striking example of this is QB Joe Burrow -- buried on the depth chart at that state university in Ohio who goes on to win a NC at LSU in addition to the Heisman.  Who could possibly be against that happening?  Granted, it's been a big headache for coaching staffs who haven't adapted but so what?  More importantly, it's been liberating for the individual athlete.  The Old Model implied "loyalty" to the university.  Examine the recruiting case of one Bo Jackson:   a uat recruiter told him he'd probably see the field in his Jr year & Pat Dye told him he'd be given every opportunity to start as a freshman.  If not for that (fortuitous) blunder, Bo would have signed with uat.  

NIL money.  Better for college athletics.  Who would deny Olivia Dunn the right to earn the money she can generate while an NCAA athlete?  Or any other athlete for that matter?  Even the Olympics finally recognized a truly "amateur" status is a somewhat nebulous definition nowadays (e.g. Michael Phelps' net worth is north of $80M.)  Football players are literally risking their health engaging in the sport.  I can't be against them earning money (non-gambling related, of course) over & above a stipend.  

 

 

[alexava 6,973]

I am on record stating NIL and the free portal will ruin college football. I think it’s well on its way. I think most college fans are probably not NFL fans on the same level because of the sentiment around the business side of it. And the attachment to the team they follow. We have watched this turn into, what I think is worse than the NFL business model. It just feels weakened and cheap. An unrelated parable is Bud Light. I still like to drink it, I just can’t bring myself to buy it anymore. Other than watching a couple games a week on tv I’m not supporting it. It’s not a conscious move or boycott of college football or Bud Light. It’s just the vibe. 

[Mims44 1,896]

Not a fan of how this NIL thing is currently going.

But hopefully it gets cleared up within a year or two. Sadly it won't ever be the way I'd like it to be.

[woodford 3,677]

As someone who holds the tradition and pageantry of CFB above everything else I was a little worried about the portal and NIL at first because I wanted that loyalty and opportunities for guys to become legends like Cadillac.

That being said if it wasn't for the portal, we would've won 15-16 games total from 2021-2024. Hugh Freeze is saving Auburn football and his biggest asset at the moment is the portal. His recruiting will follow with a full year under his belt by ESD in December and NSD in February. Take Tennessee for example, if the portal existed in 2009 or so they probably would have never fallen off the deep end and in turn Alabama might not have been the dynasty they could have been. It's similar to the seen and unseen in economics.

I personally don't care about the NIL. A lot of them have been paid for years. If you're dumb enough to give an 18-year-old a million dollars, then go right ahead. None of my business. I'm sure some terrible lawyer association will sue the NCAA and use Title IX to force schools to pay the female athletes the same as men and destroy incentives and make NIL completely useless. NIL should include TV money for every athlete that way these conferences and schools can cover their a$$ in terms of future Title IX issues. But never in a million years would you expect a bureaucratic hell hole like a university to make proactive decisions. 

 

I am MUCH more worried about what ESPN has up their sleeve in terms of the integrity and future of the sport. They want NFL Jr because they don't really have a seat at the table in the NFL. They only have MNF and the Draft. Barely any playoffs and no Super Bowls. ESPN's long-term goals are probably to take the top 30 teams and form a new CFB league. That would suck. ESPN and corporate dollars will destroy our beloved sport way faster and more completely than NIL or the portal ever could.

[AUloggerhead 2,267]

38 minutes ago, woodford said:

... I am MUCH more worried about what ESPN has up their sleeve in terms of the integrity and future of the sport. They want NFL Jr because they don't really have a seat at the table in the NFL. They only have MNF and the Draft. Barely any playoffs and no Super Bowls. ESPN's long-term goals are probably to take the top 30 teams and form a new CFB league. That would suck. ESPN and corporate dollars will destroy our beloved sport way faster and more completely than NIL or the portal ever could.

Completely understand this take.  The money they provide via their TV contracts is driving all the conference realignment.  Each season UCLA & SC stand to make about twice as much in the BeeOneGee conference as they would by remaining in the PAC-12 -- something like +$30M annually for each school.  At first glance, that amount appears to be a no-brainer decision as it would go a long way towards keeping any Athletic Dept afloat.  We'll see once they start paying to fly across the country to play Rutgers or Maryland on a regular basis.       

[cbo 7,968]

The players deserve the money. So I'm glad changes were made, whether I like it or not. 

I agree with @AUght2winthat it is a bit less fun when you don't know the players and can't follow them for a few years and watch them develop. Everyone on this board follows AU football more closely than your average fan, but how many of us can even name our projected starters?

On the other hand, it's exciting that a team can bounce back quicker than ever before. Maybe we will see a little more parity? Hard to say at this point. 

I just realized I basically summarized points others have already made, but I'm not deleting this now.  

[cbo 7,968]

11 hours ago, alexava said:

I am on record stating NIL and the free portal will ruin college football. I think it’s well on its way. I think most college fans are probably not NFL fans on the same level because of the sentiment around the business side of it. And the attachment to the team they follow. We have watched this turn into, what I think is worse than the NFL business model. It just feels weakened and cheap. An unrelated parable is Bud Light. I still like to drink it, I just can’t bring myself to buy it anymore. Other than watching a couple games a week on tv I’m not supporting it. It’s not a conscious move or boycott of college football or Bud Light. It’s just the vibe. 

[AUloggerhead 2,267]

4 hours ago, AUloggerhead said:

Completely understand this take.  The money they provide via their TV contracts is driving all the conference realignment.  Each season UCLA & SC stand to make about twice as much in the BeeOneGee conference as they would by remaining in the PAC-12 -- something like +$30M annually for each school.  At first glance, that amount appears to be a no-brainer decision as it would go a long way towards keeping any Athletic Dept afloat.  We'll see once they start paying to fly across the country to play Rutgers or Maryland on a regular basis.       

I got the numbers wrong.  The amount of money coming in to UCLA & SC might be up to $100M annually for each if the expected $1B media rights deal is negotiated.  Link

The money is insane.  

 

[Tiger Refuge 6,675]

I would highly suspect (ie hope) that if CHF is sitting where he wants us to be, in just a few years, our usage of the transfer portal will be minimal at that point.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Tiger Refuge

[alexava 6,973]

1 hour ago, Tiger Refuge said:

I would highly suspect (ie hope) that if CHF is sitting where he wants us to be, in just a few years, our usage of the transfer portal will be minimal at that point.

It’s not anyone’s choice to be in this position. But there’s not much coaches or programs can do to prevent it again. No way to stop players from leaving. 

[Tiger Refuge 6,675]

41 minutes ago, alexava said:

It’s not anyone’s choice to be in this position. But there’s not much coaches or programs can do to prevent it again. No way to stop players from leaving. 

That’s true. Everyone is having to adjust to it. I just see it as an opportunity for a team that has been depleted of talent to rebuild the roster much faster. 

[Jimmywde 0]

On 5/8/2023 at 2:27 PM, AUght2win said:

First off, that’s awesome DAG I’m guessing it wasn’t AU or we would already know that? What school? Wisky? 

Secondly, track is one of the sports entirely propped up by football/basketball money. I would think every bus ride, hotel room, meal, event, etc. you guys had was taken from the money made from the big 2. 

That’s been one argument I’ve had - if they start giving football/basketball players a large chunk of the pie from those sports’ revenue, all the less popular sports will go under overnight.

NIL isn’t paid for by the school, conference or ncaa it comes solely from outside parties . So it doesn’t affect the revenue of other sports, NIL is just a way for players to make money and not be an employee of the school. And nobody should be able to tell you can’t make a living that’s not American 

[alexava 6,973]

On 5/13/2023 at 4:07 AM, Jimmywde said:

NIL isn’t paid for by the school, conference or ncaa it comes solely from outside parties . So it doesn’t affect the revenue of other sports, NIL is just a way for players to make money and not be an employee of the school. And nobody should be able to tell you can’t make a living that’s not American 

You are badly mistaken. 

[AUght2win 6,883]

On 5/13/2023 at 4:07 AM, Jimmywde said:

NIL isn’t paid for by the school, conference or ncaa it comes solely from outside parties . So it doesn’t affect the revenue of other sports, NIL is just a way for players to make money and not be an employee of the school. And nobody should be able to tell you can’t make a living that’s not American 

First off, this isn’t talking about NIL. This is talking about divvying up football profits and giving some to players (which has been discussed for years). Secondly, there are all types of restrictions on ways you make money in America. That’s just plainly not true.

[Jimmywde 0]

On 5/14/2023 at 6:05 PM, AUght2win said:

First off, this isn’t talking about NIL. This is talking about divvying up football profits and giving some to players (which has been discussed for years). Secondly, there are all types of restrictions on ways you make money in America. That’s just plainly not true.

No salary restrictions on anybody else in involved in “amateur” sports but the players, how is that fair and justified?

[rockfordpi 91]

Ah, Yep, I for one miss those good old days when kids went out there and sweated and bled and risked getting (and got) injured, maimed, and concussions (and long term consequences thereof) , to entertain us and make hundreds of millions for Head Coaches, Colleges, and Conferences, and billions for ESPN only to have most aspects of their lives and future controlled by the Universities and the NCAA (the very people that profited from most from the old system) for the value of a scholarship that essentially cost the Universities nothing to give.

Damn you Supreme Court, both liberals and conservatives, for your rare unanimous ruling  in favor of the greedy athletes over the noble NCAA and Universities who, in the model of the ancient Greeks, only sought to make the world a better place through amateur intercollegiate athletic competition. 

I have written here (and been chastised) multiple times for pointing out that historically things have not ended well for those in power in systems where there is one group of people doing all the sweating and bleeding and another group of people reaping most of the benefits and rewards, see Slavery, Imperialism, Monarchies, the labor movement, Woman Suffrage. Now we can add to that list the Honorable NCAA and the Noble Universities who sold their souls (as well as million dollar skyboxes, $15 hamburgers/$7 drinks, and license/merchandising fees for certain fonts and colors on everything from shoes to cakes) for the almighty $$$.

The supreme court was correct, it is no longer amateur athletics, instead it has become a multi-billion dollar entertainment industry who wanted to perpetuate a plantation mentality under the guise and veil of "amateur athletics"

Now, if TPTB really want to fix the problem (and they do not) here is an easy fix. Take the $$$ and national exposure out of the system and make it truly a much more amateur  system. Cancel ALL of the network contracts to air events. Every university will stream its home games for a fee directly to individual fans who want to watch. Guarantee a student ticket to every student and first choice to alums who want to attend before selling tix to the general public.

Limit the commercials to 6-8 Minutes per half, show the bands at half time. Take the money and national exposure out of the system and many of these issues like NIL will go away (along with $10 Million annual coaches salaries, new ever more plush football building and practice facilities every three years).

I think given the choices above, the TPTB will hold their noses and live with NIL, the transfer portal, and paying players before they give up the $$$$. Ideally they would like to still have all the $$$$ and continuing controlling the players and giving them a pittance, but given a choice, they will always chose the $$$$$, even if they have to share.

The NCAA and Universities would do well to remember something that wise old philosopher, Walt Kelly's Pogo Possum, once said "We have met the enemy and he is US". 

 

[WarEagle1982 449]

You’ll never again see a Senior class that came in as Freshmen and bonded into a “family” and led the program to unprecedented heights.  (i.e. 1983, 1988, 1993, 1997, 2004, 2010, etc.)

[icanthearyou 4,464]

Can't wait for the universities to just drop all of the students/academics nonsense, remove the years of eligibility restrictions and,,, start to compete with the NFL.

If the universities are doing all of the developing of talent, why lose your investment?  If the universities are going to get into the professional sports business,,, go all in.

Would we allow universities to do all of the R&D and then, give the results to a private corporation for them to monetize?

Point is,,, I do not believe we have seen how far this is going to go.

[W.E.D 11,070]

12 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Can't wait for the universities to just drop all of the students/academics nonsense, remove the years of eligibility restrictions and,,, start to compete with the NFL.

If the universities are doing all of the developing of talent, why lose your investment?  If the universities are going to get into the professional sports business,,, go all in.

Would we allow universities to do all of the R&D and then, give the results to a private corporation for them to monetize?

Point is,,, I do not believe we have seen how far this is going to go.

You act as the universities aren't benefiting heavily right now and have been for the last 15 years.

It's been extremely beneficial and profitable to be a school with a P5 football team. All those facilities around the country that are better than pro complexes don't build themselves