Debate

[LPTiger 5,167]

Vivek started strong  but then "everybody up here is bought and paid for" was a off-putting

Pemce  -- coming across as bit of a jerk

Christie -- being a jerk

Scott- very calm and poised  great answer on climate -- we are killing our economy while Africa and China are polluting like crazy

Haley -- very solid the Thatcher quote was strong

DeSantis -- doing better than expected

[AUDub 11,153]

10 minutes ago, LPTiger said:

Vivek started strong  but then "everybody up here is bought and paid for" was a off-putting

That's his main selling point for himself. "I'm an outsider."

[gr82be 14,433]

11 minutes ago, LPTiger said:

Vivek started strong  but then "everybody up here is bought and paid for" was a off-putting

Pemce  -- coming across as bit of a jerk

Christie -- being a jerk

Scott- very calm and poised  great answer on climate -- we are killing our economy while Africa and China are polluting like crazy

Haley -- very solid the Thatcher quote was strong

DeSantis -- doing better than expected

Agree on Haley and Scott. I like them both. Haley bringing some truth in the comment that spending is not just a Dem problem. Vivek is a pretender at this point and his approach during this debate isn't going to cut it. 

[LPTiger 5,167]

1 minute ago, gr82be said:

Agree on Haley and Scott. I like them both. Haley bringing some truth in the comment that spending is not just a Dem problem. Vivek is a pretender at this point and his approach during this debate isn't going to cut it. 

Haley really did hammer the party on spending.   I'm surprised at Pence's demeanor.   Desantis just had a moment about firing prosecutors who refuse to enforce the law.

[LPTiger 5,167]

Winners = Scott, Haley, Desantis.

[LPTiger 5,167]

Pence, Christie = non-winners.    Baier is ready to punch Pence.

[Leftfield 2,613]

My opinion, which probably means nothing to many on the board since I'm no longer right-leaning.....

Haley -  has been the most impressive

Scott - solid, but not really standing out. Leaning more "left" now, has said some things I disagree with, but probably works with Republicans.

Pence - better than I expected, but that ain't saying much. No chance.

Christie - standing out, but among Republicans not in a good way. Just don't think he has a shot for the Republican nomination.

Ramaswamy - wasn't sure what to expect, based on what I'd heard so far, but now....dude is a total used car salesman.

Desantis - walking talking point. Aside from the AG statement has not said a thing of substance and is in complete salesman mode. His talking up about working with Navy SEALS (he was a JAG) to pump up his "toughness" was nauseating.

Burgum - along with Haley, has probably done the most to boost himself, but considering how unknown he was going into this, that's probably not saying much. 

Hutchinson - had hopes going into this, but hurt himself more than anyone else. He'll be forgotten instantly.

 

Just as I was about to post this, Ramaswamy said one thing I agree with - high school seniors should be able to pass the same civics test that immigrants must.

And....good jab from Pence about a mental competency test and a "too young" comment directed at Ramaswamy.

 

 

 

 

 

[LPTiger 5,167]

13 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

My opinion, which probably means nothing to many on the board since I'm no longer right-leaning.....

Haley -  has been the most impressive

Scott - solid, but not really standing out. Leaning more "left" now, has said some things I disagree with, but probably works with Republicans.

Pence - better than I expected, but that ain't saying much. No chance.

Christie - standing out, but among Republicans not in a good way. Just don't think he has a shot for the Republican nomination.

Ramaswamy - wasn't sure what to expect, based on what I'd heard so far, but now....dude is a total used car salesman.

Desantis - walking talking point. Aside from the AG statement has not said a thing of substance and is in complete salesman mode. His talking up about working with Navy SEALS (he was a JAG) to pump up his "toughness" was nauseating.

Burgum - along with Haley, has probably done the most to boost himself, but considering how unknown he was going into this, that's probably not saying much. 

Hutchinson - had hopes going into this, but hurt himself more than anyone else. He'll be forgotten instantly.

 

Just as I was about to post this, Ramaswamy said one thing I agree with - high school seniors should be able to pass the same civics test that immigrants must.

And....good jab from Pence about a mental competency test and a "too young" comment directed at Ramaswamy.

 

 

 

 

 

Good summary.   Pence seems really angry.   Haley, Scott and Desantis have performed the best.   Haley and Scott would thump ole Joe.   I think they have thrown some nice punches at Trump.

[Leftfield 2,613]

Closing statements:

Burgum - sounded weak, compared to the rest of his debate. He's better when freewheeling. 

Hutchinson - better than the rest of his performance, but again, not saying much. Nothing memorable.

Scott - upbeat. Did not mention a country in decline. Trans comment he was claiming was from his mother was garbage, because everyone knows it's not true, but might play well with some Republicans.

Christie - forgettable, even if true.

Haley - mostly pandering, but closing statements must be. Forgettable compared to the rest of her debate.

Pence - forgettable. Just can't project charisma.

Ramaswamy - energy. I don't agree with him, but he will play well with many Republicans. Christie was somewhat accurate when describing him as an Obama for Republicans, though his comparison was meant as a derision.

Desantis - same as the rest of his debate, not very charismatic. Will be surprised if he gains any traction.

 

[LPTiger 5,167]

4 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Closing statements:

Burgum - sounded weak, compared to the rest of his debate. He's better when freewheeling. 

Hutchinson - better than the rest of his performance, but again, not saying much. Nothing memorable.

Scott - upbeat. Did not mention a country in decline. Trans comment he was claiming was from his mother was garbage, because everyone knows it's not true, but might play well with some Republicans.

Christie - forgettable, even if true.

Haley - mostly pandering, but closing statements must be. Forgettable compared to the rest of her debate.

Pence - forgettable. Just can't project charisma.

Ramaswamy - energy. I don't agree with him, but he will play well with many Republicans. Christie was somewhat accurate when describing him as an Obama for Republicans, though his comparison was meant as a derision.

Desantis - same as the rest of his debate, not very charismatic. Will be surprised if he gains any traction.

 

Agree on Burgum -- it was his weakest moment -- he seemed unsure of what to say

Hutchinson he's a non-issue now

Scott -- polished closing probably number 2 behind Vivek

Christie agree

Pence -- yuck

Vivek -- his closing was his best moment

Desantis -- seems rehearsed and repeated.

Someone has to explain why Trump can't win.

[Leftfield 2,613]

8 minutes ago, LPTiger said:

Good summary.   Pence seems really angry.   Haley, Scott and Desantis have performed the best.   Haley and Scott would thump ole Joe.   I think they have thrown some nice punches at Trump.

Only one I disagree with you on is Desantis. In my opinion, he said just about nothing of substance. He always seems to have to have a villain. He has to be the positive force against everything else that is negative. If you look back at his answers, everything started with something to attack, and really didn't give specific solutions.

Props to Christie for praising Pence. Tough to do when you're in a debate and helping someone you're up against. I know Christie doesn't have a shot, and he probably knows, too, which would allow him to be more freewheeling, but it's nice to hear someone praise a person instead of tearing them down.

I'm glad Burgum was able to participate. Being more left-leaning, I don't agree with some things he said, but he seems fairly genuine. I'll have to look deeper into his record. I think he boosted himself as much as anyone 

 

[Leftfield 2,613]

5 minutes ago, LPTiger said:

Agree on Burgum -- it was his weakest moment -- he seemed unsure of what to say

Hutchinson he's a non-issue now

Scott -- polished closing probably number 2 behind Vivek

Christie agree

Pence -- yuck

Vivek -- his closing was his best moment

Desantis -- seems rehearsed and repeated.

Someone has to explain why Trump can't win.

Curious as to your impression of Haley? 

[LPTiger 5,167]

2 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Only one I disagree with you on is Desantis. In my opinion, he said just about nothing of substance. He always seems to have to have a villain. He has to be the positive force against everything else that is negative. If you look back at his answers, everything started with something to attack, and really didn't give specific solutions.

Props to Christie for praising Pence. Tough to do when you're in a debate and helping someone you're up against. I know Christie doesn't have a shot, and he probably knows, too, which would allow him to be more freewheeling, but it's nice to hear someone praise a person instead of tearing them down.

I'm glad Burgum was able to participate. Being more left-leaning, I don't agree with some things he said, but he seems fairly genuine. I'll have to look deeper into his record. I think he boosted himself as much as anyone 

 

Very interested in Burgum's business past.    Sounds like he was very successful.    Desantis is better in this interview with Hannity.    He mentioned he was from a blue collar family.   Do we know how he was able to go to Yale and Harvard. 

[Leftfield 2,613]

1 minute ago, LPTiger said:

Desantis is better in this interview with Hannity.    He mentioned he was from a blue collar family.   Do we know how he was able to go to Yale and Harvard. 

Almost commented on this, as well. I don't remember hearing anything about Desantis' family struggling financially or being "blue collar," though I'm admittedly ignorant about his past. Will need to take a look at this. The man is not dumb, but I'm curious as to how much he's playing up his past.

I'll be honest, I was shocked the moderators brought out the UFO question. If they had prefaced it with "Let's have a little fun...", that would have be one thing, but they played it straight. Christie's shining moment may have been his response to that. Really was not a boost to Fox News.

 

 

[AU9377 4,976]

1 hour ago, LPTiger said:

Haley really did hammer the party on spending.   I'm surprised at Pence's demeanor.   Desantis just had a moment about firing prosecutors who refuse to enforce the law.

That comment is terrible policy on his part though.  He is using his authority as governor in Florida to remove elected District Attorneys based on their prosecutorial decisions, which aren't even controversial.  That is the stuff of autocrats.  That isn't American.

[LPTiger 5,167]

1 minute ago, AU9377 said:

That comment is terrible policy on his part though.  He is using his authority as governor in Florida to remove elected District Attorneys based on their prosecutorial decisions, which aren't even controversial.  That is the stuff of autocrats.  That isn't American.

I have no problem with the state's highest elected executive removing state employees who are not doing their jobs.   The buck stops with him.   If the electorate disagrees, they can make a change.

[AU9377 4,976]

11 minutes ago, LPTiger said:

I have no problem with the state's highest elected executive removing state employees who are not doing their jobs.   The buck stops with him.   If the electorate disagrees, they can make a change.

If they are guilty of some sort of malfeasance in office, I agree.  However, you can't simply remove another elected official because you don't like them and they aren't members of your political party.  You can go to any district in the country and find examples of someone being out on bond that later committed another crime.  For every one you find, there are thousands that didn't commit another crime before their trial on the charges they are out on bond for.

It is one thing to remove a state employee.  It is another to remove an elected official.  He has even gone as far as removing, but structuring his action as being a paid suspension and then appointing a replacement DA to serve out the remainder of the term.  He chose that route so that the DA he removed doesn't have the ability to run for the position again until the term expires.

This is another one of those things that has never been an issue before due to the respect that anyone elected governor usually has for our system of government. Others have not wanted to be seen as abusing the power they have.  DeSantis doesn't have that same concern.

Edited August 24, 2023 by AU9377

[GoAU 1,600]

7 hours ago, LPTiger said:

Vivek started strong  but then "everybody up here is bought and paid for" was a off-putting

Pemce  -- coming across as bit of a jerk

Christie -- being a jerk

Scott- very calm and poised  great answer on climate -- we are killing our economy while Africa and China are polluting like crazy

Haley -- very solid the Thatcher quote was strong

DeSantis -- doing better than expected

Agree with most of what you said here.   However, I thought Haley’s quote of Thatcher was garbage.  It’s really no different than one of the guys saying “I’m more qualified because I have a penis”.  Generally when it comes to statements about gender, race, religion etc, if you change the subject of the statement with another gender, race or religion - if it sounds jacked up, it probably is.  

7 hours ago, LPTiger said:

Haley really did hammer the party on spending.   I'm surprised at Pence's demeanor.   Desantis just had a moment about firing prosecutors who refuse to enforce the law.

Completely agree with the DeSantis comment on prosecutors - he topped it off very well by pointing out that while crime is surging in most places that FL is having a 50 year low.  That, IMO, was powerful.  

6 hours ago, Leftfield said:

My opinion, which probably means nothing to many on the board since I'm no longer right-leaning.....

Haley -  has been the most impressive

Scott - solid, but not really standing out. Leaning more "left" now, has said some things I disagree with, but probably works with Republicans.

Pence - better than I expected, but that ain't saying much. No chance.

Christie - standing out, but among Republicans not in a good way. Just don't think he has a shot for the Republican nomination.

Ramaswamy - wasn't sure what to expect, based on what I'd heard so far, but now....dude is a total used car salesman.

Desantis - walking talking point. Aside from the AG statement has not said a thing of substance and is in complete salesman mode. His talking up about working with Navy SEALS (he was a JAG) to pump up his "toughness" was nauseating.

Burgum - along with Haley, has probably done the most to boost himself, but considering how unknown he was going into this, that's probably not saying much. 

Hutchinson - had hopes going into this, but hurt himself more than anyone else. He'll be forgotten instantly.

 

Just as I was about to post this, Ramaswamy said one thing I agree with - high school seniors should be able to pass the same civics test that immigrants must.

And....good jab from Pence about a mental competency test and a "too young" comment directed at Ramaswamy.

 

 

 

 

 

Didn’t make it to the end, but will admit I was kind of surprised with Burgum - he was the guy I knew least about.  I would have rated them like this (no particular order within each Tier:

Top Tier: DeSantis, Scott

Middle: Haley, Ramaswamy, Burgum

Bottom: Christy, Hutchinson, Pence (car across like an a**hole really) 

 

5 hours ago, AU9377 said:

That comment is terrible policy on his part though.  He is using his authority as governor in Florida to remove elected District Attorneys based on their prosecutorial decisions, which aren't even controversial.  That is the stuff of autocrats.  That isn't American.

Asking an elected official to uphold their oath is American - it just hasn’t had to be forced on people in elected positions like this in a long time.  Having “soft on crime” DAs is a new (and sad) phenomenon.  

[TitanTiger 20,499]

I’ll preface this by saying I have not watched the debate yet. I recorded it because I wasn’t able to watch it. I’ve read a few summaries on various sites this morning and seen a few clips, so my take may change after a full viewing.
 

Haley is the most ready for the job. She seems to have won the night overall  

Scott and Pence also looked like competent leaders but sometimes come off a bit too Pollyanna. 

Desantis wasn’t memorable and seemed overshadowed by Vivek.

I don’t like Vivek.  I’m sure tonight raised his profile though  

Christie is the truth teller of the entire bunch.  Problem is, most Republican voters don’t want the truth. 

The other two should pack it in now.  

 

[AUDub 11,153]

The Political Talk board on TigerDroppings is bagging on Haley hard this morning. I'll take that as a sign she won. 

[TitanTiger 20,499]

45 minutes ago, AUDub said:

The Political Talk board on TigerDroppings is bagging on Haley hard this morning. I'll take that as a sign she won. 

For real.  God, what a nuthouse that place is.

[Mikey 16,630]

If I had to vote today based solely on the debate and what little I know about prior accomplishments I'd vote DeSantis with North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum a close second. Any of the eight on that stage will be a much better president than Biden.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

Just now, Mikey said:

If I had to vote today based solely on the debate and what little I know about prior accomplishments I'd vote DeSantis with North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum a close second. Any of the eight on that stage will be a much better president than Biden.

Agreed.  And miles better than Trump as well.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

The electorate is focused on personalities.  They don't care about policies.  Perfect.

 

[GoAU 1,600]

3 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

The electorate is focused on personalities.  They don't care about policies.  Perfect.

 

In many cases you are correct.  Or, how someone looks, or just whatever party they are (or aren’t).  
 

I have a daughter that just turned old enough to vote in her first election and was asking about it.  I told her two things:

1) Understand the Constitution 

2) Understand your values and WHY you feel like you do.  Think through cause & effect and root causes.  
 

If #1 and #2 conflict, default to #1.  I used the example of burning a flag.  I absolutely despise the idea of burning an American flag, however I understand freedom of speech.  You can’t just vote for someone that promises things you want to hear, especially if they can’t legally deliver it.