Debate

[LPTiger 5,167]

13 hours ago, GoAU said:

Agree with most of what you said here.   However, I thought Haley’s quote of Thatcher was garbage.  It’s really no different than one of the guys saying “I’m more qualified because I have a penis”.  Generally when it comes to statements about gender, race, religion etc, if you change the subject of the statement with another gender, race or religion - if it sounds jacked up, it probably is.  

Completely agree with the DeSantis comment on prosecutors - he topped it off very well by pointing out that while crime is surging in most places that FL is having a 50 year low.  That, IMO, was powerful.  

Didn’t make it to the end, but will admit I was kind of surprised with Burgum - he was the guy I knew least about.  I would have rated them like this (no particular order within each Tier:

Top Tier: DeSantis, Scott

Middle: Haley, Ramaswamy, Burgum

Bottom: Christy, Hutchinson, Pence (car across like an a**hole really) 

 

Asking an elected official to uphold their oath is American - it just hasn’t had to be forced on people in elected positions like this in a long time.  Having “soft on crime” DAs is a new (and sad) phenomenon.  

And Nikki's Thatcher quote ticked off at least 50% of voting age men.    Maybe she knows republican men are going to vote for the republican candidate, whomever it is, and she is trying to picking off independent women and Dem women who have soured on Joe.    But, you got to get the nomination first.   I do think she laid out the plan for threading the needle on abortion.    

[LPTiger 5,167]

19 hours ago, Leftfield said:

Curious as to your impression of Haley? 

Did you type Ramsawmy from memory?  I obviously still can't get it right.   I give Nikki Haley props for a lot of reasons.    7 men and 1 woman on stage and she seemed very comfortable.  She has a unique background that qualifies here to be Pres -- Governor & foreign ambassador.   She has some bulldog in her (telling Vivek he knows nothing about foreign policy and it shows).    I've worked with several Indian women in my career, most of them were in IT and were IT geniuses.   I have found them to be very smart and very personable.   They have a much deeper devotion to family than we now have in America.   Right before I retired our head of IT was an Indian female and her mom and dad lived with her and her husband, not because they had to, but because she wanted them to.   That alone, means a lot to me!!!     

[gr82be 14,433]

1 hour ago, LPTiger said:

And Nikki's Thatcher quote ticked off at least 50% of voting age men.    Maybe she knows republican men are going to vote for the republican candidate, whomever it is, and she is trying to picking off independent women and Dem women who have soured on Joe.    But, you got to get the nomination first.   I do think she laid out the plan for threading the needle on abortion.    

Not really, that comment didn't bother me one bit. Men taking offense to that quote have no sense of humor. 

[GoAU 1,600]

31 minutes ago, gr82be said:

Not really, that comment didn't bother me one bit. Men taking offense to that quote have no sense of humor. 

Taking offense isn’t a term I would use. I wasn’t offended by it, but I also recognize it for what it is - pandering and a double standard.  I’ve got thick skin and enjoy digs and jabs with the best of them.  The thing I don’t like is double standards.  I’d prefer we all throw political correctness right out the window and toughen up, but I don’t see that happening anytime soon.  

Edited August 25, 2023 by GoAU

[AUFAN78 3,911]

DeSantis, Ramaswamy and Haley likely won the night IMO. I'd go Scott a distant 4th. 

[AU9377 4,976]

18 hours ago, GoAU said:

Asking an elected official to uphold their oath is American - it just hasn’t had to be forced on people in elected positions like this in a long time.  Having “soft on crime” DAs is a new (and sad) phenomenon.  

They are upholding their oath when they make charging decisions.   Their job is to make the decision.  Voters can approve or disapprove of the job they are doing.  There are situations where a DA should be removed.  Broad allegations of being soft on crime is not an adequate justification.  I would not be shocked if a judge reverses his latest decision.   He would never get away with doing that in most any other state.  You can look at any jurisdiction in the United States, regardless of who the DA is and compile a justification to remove them based on the criteria he used in Florida.  There will always be a case or cases where someone is out on bond and commits a much more violent crime.  You can't just hold everyone in jail that commits a crime until trial.

[Didba 5,256]

alriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, biden/trump sit down, until one of these guys say universal healthcare, lobby-ism reform, or tuition reform they wont have my vote however its nice to see fairly competent candidates in a debate comparatively speaking.

[Mikey 16,630]

12 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

DeSantis, Ramaswamy and Haley likely won the night IMO. I'd go Scott a distant 4th. 

I'd throw North Dakota's Doug Burgum in with the winners. To me, Ramasawamy didn't come off very well at all and hurt himself. Agree on the rest of your assessment.

[homersapien 11,390]

Presumably, Will Hurd didn't qualify? 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Why did they all dodge the UFO question?  What is the government hiding?

The number of Americans who have been abducted and probed is unacceptable.

Forget global warming, forget the transsexuals, forget about pandemics, forget about inequality, forget about inflation.

Why can't we talk about the elephant in the room?  The aliens are real and,,, they are here.  Thank goodness one member of the panel had the courage to ask the big question.

[homersapien 11,390]

Ramaswamy brings a Trumpian brazenness to denying the undeniable

By George F. Will

 

Disclosure: The columnist’s wife, Mari Will, is an adviser to Republican presidential candidate Sen. Tim Scott (S.C.).

Interminable presidential campaigns, unlike the migraines they induce, are useful, as Vivek Ramaswamy is demonstrating. They provide ample opportunities for candidates to reveal whether they have sufficient seasoning for the daunting challenges of the office.

Except Ramaswamy is serenely undaunted. His only puzzlement seems to be that the nation’s problems puzzle others.

The problem of unsustainable Social Security and Medicare trajectories? Simple, says Ramaswamy: Just achieve sustained 5 percent economic growth, and the problem will disappear. (Average annual economic growth from 1947 to 2022 was 3.1 percent, according to Cato Institute fiscal analyst Norbert Michel; only once was it more than 5 percent for three consecutive years.)

The problem of China’s threat to Taiwan? Not a problem, Ramaswamy says, if we dare to embrace ruthlessness: “Xi Jinping should not mess with Taiwan” — until 2029. Ramaswamy says that at the end of his first term, the United States will have “semiconductor independence” and no further use for Taiwan. Announcing a date when Xi can launch a risk-free invasion of Taiwan is one way to reduce uncertainties.

The problem of helping Ukraine resist Vladimir Putin’s war of national annihilation? Ramaswamy would erase this problem by embracing the wisdom of 1938. He would “require” Putin to end his alliance with China, in exchange for a “hard” U.S. commitment that NATO would “never” admit Ukraine. And Russia would be allowed to digest large amounts of Ukraine. Ramaswamy evidently thinks concessions abetting Ukraine’s dismemberment will work better than similar concessions regarding Czechoslovakia in the Munich Agreement.

Ramaswamy would pardon Edward Snowden, who leaked U.S. national security secrets, then fled to Putin’s Russia. Ramaswamy says “part of what made” Snowden “heroic” was his risking punishment: “Just think Rosa Parks.” Interviewer: “Did you just compare Rosa Parks to Edward Snowden?” Ramaswamy: “No, I did not.”

Ramaswamy brings Trumpian brazenness to denying the undeniable. When asked whether 9/11 was “an inside job” or happened as “the government tells us,” Ramaswamy said: “I don’t believe the government has told us the truth.” When asked by the Atlantic about saying we do not know “the truth” about Jan. 6, 2021, he recurred to skepticism about what the government has said about 9/11. When he claimed to have been misquoted, the Atlantic produced a recording of his words.

Ostentatiously confident, he advertised his intention to skip normal preparation for the first Republican debate. Then The Post informed him about a photo of him in a suit, standing at a lectern, flanked by two others, also at lecterns, which looked like normal prep. He said he “reluctantly” tried prep; his campaign spokeswoman said he “experimented with” prep.

He did not need to prepare for a question not posed to him on Wednesday: “You say Trump was ‘the greatest president of the 21st century.’ So why are you running against him?”

Biootech entrepreneur, Ramaswamy illustrates the difference between intelligence, which he has, abundantly, and judgment, which he lacks, utterly. It is not smart for smart people to pretend to be dumb, but perhaps he thinks he must regularly exhibit childishness to charm the GOP’s nominating electorate.

 

For example, he proposes amending the Constitution to raise the voting age to 25 — unless 18-year-olds are service members or first responders, or pass the civics exam required of immigrants. This lunge for attention is a purely performative gesture, flamboyant audacity that 38 states will not ratify.

Ramaswamy nevertheless insists that voters need to have some “civic experience.” So, should presidents have had some prior government experience? Ramaswamy would be the second president with no government experience, civilian or military. (The first was the most recent Republican.) Ramaswamy, who needs schooling, should read Harry McPherson’s memoir, “A Political Education” (1972).

McPherson recalled driving into Washington late on Jan. 31, 1956, to become an aide to Senate majority leader, and later president, Lyndon B. Johnson. “In the mist beyond the Monument is the White House and General Eisenhower,” hitherto an object of McPherson’s condescension. That night, however, “surrounded by this city of power, he seems much more formidable. … Eisenhower belongs here.” It was one thing to mock President Eisenhower over schooners of Pearl beer back in Texas, but:

“It is another to confront this city with its mysteries of authority. Perhaps the presence of power begets ambiguity: in the years ahead I am to see a variety of angry convictions turned to doubt when confronted by power and responsibility.”

McPherson was 26 the night he drove across Memorial Bridge sensing that “the smell of power hangs over this city like cordite.” Ramaswamy, 38, is, comparatively, a child.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/25/vivek-ramaswamy-overconfident-simplistic-solutions/

Edited August 25, 2023 by homersapien

[LPTiger 5,167]

Interesting fact I didn't know until today -- Desantis played baseball @ Yale, hit over .300 for his career and was voted team captain his senior year.   He would be the second US president to play baseball @ Yale.    

[AUFAN78 3,911]

5 hours ago, Mikey said:

I'd throw North Dakota's Doug Burgum in with the winners. To me, Ramasawamy didn't come off very well at all and hurt himself. Agree on the rest of your assessment.

I was going with those that likely moved the needle. Regardless, 538 seems to somewhat agree with me. I guess that's a win? 

[LPTiger 5,167]

A new poll, post debate, shows Desantis moved from 14% to 21% support in Iowa.   He also raised $1MM in the 24 hours after the debate. 

[TexasTiger 12,953]

7 hours ago, LPTiger said:

A new poll, post debate, shows Desantis moved from 14% to 21% support in Iowa.   He also raised $1MM in the 24 hours after the debate. 

7% of Iowans are easily impressed.

[LPTiger 5,167]

10 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

7% of Iowans are easily impressed.

Part of success is actually showing up.

[TexasTiger 12,953]

7 minutes ago, LPTiger said:

Part of success is actually showing up.

Several showed up.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Very proud of those who pledged to pardon the former president regardless of the crimes for which he is convicted.

Very disappointed in Biden for saying he could pardon himself.

[creed 1,641]

On 8/25/2023 at 12:08 PM, icanthearyou said:

Why did they all dodge the UFO question?  What is the government hiding?

The number of Americans who have been abducted and probed is unacceptable.

Forget global warming, forget the transsexuals, forget about pandemics, forget about inequality, forget about inflation.

Why can't we talk about the elephant in the room?  The aliens are real and,,, they are here.  Thank goodness one member of the panel had the courage to ask the big question.

Now I get it...after all this time I get it! Since reading your posts for so long, it's clear, you've been abducted by aliens and returned. Now the question is why did they return you?

🙂

Edited August 26, 2023 by creed

[autigeremt 6,646]

5 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Very proud of those who pledged to pardon the former president regardless of the crimes for which he is convicted.

Very disappointed in Biden for saying he could pardon himself.

Why? They are all one in the same. 

[TitanTiger 20,499]

The more Vivek speaks, the more I realize there's no way in six hells I'd vote for him.

[auburnatl1 4,973]

15 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

The more Vivek speaks, the more I realize there's no way in six hells I'd vote for him.

He tried to read the room and decided to out-trump trump. Bad read.  I could be wrong but Nikki feels, in the long term , the biggest challenger for the gop non trumpers. She’s made some mistakes but still feels like the grownup in the day care with formidable qualifications. She may be the most moderate so we’ll see how that plays.

[Gowebb11 9,335]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

The more Vivek speaks, the more I realize there's no way in six hells I'd vote for him.

Same. He’s one of those guys who speaks well and makes a lot of great points, as long as he’s screening callers and controls the mute button. When he’s being questioned and gets away from his pre-planned talking points things go sideways for him. 

[LPTiger 5,167]

47 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

He tried to read the room and decided to out-trump trump. Bad read.  I could be wrong but Nikki feels, in the long term , the biggest challenger for the gop non trumpers. She’s made some mistakes but still feels like the grownup in the day care with formidable qualifications. She may be the most moderate so we’ll see how that plays.

Vivek, at the debate, seemed, well, inexperienced.    I wish Haley could gain more traction.   She could defeat Biden pretty handily.   Suburban women who don't like Biden denying Navy for 4 years, other women who don't like a complete abortion ban, and women who want to see our first female Pres would go her way.  She has legit foreign policy chops that Desantis doesn't have.   She seems very measured which would be a nice change, and she is decades away from being 80.  

[auburnatl1 4,973]

1 hour ago, LPTiger said:

Vivek, at the debate, seemed, well, inexperienced.    I wish Haley could gain more traction.   She could defeat Biden pretty handily.   Suburban women who don't like Biden denying Navy for 4 years, other women who don't like a complete abortion ban, and women who want to see our first female Pres would go her way.  She has legit foreign policy chops that Desantis doesn't have.   She seems very measured which would be a nice change, and she is decades away from being 80.  

I agree about Halley.  The challenge is the trump and biden adventures are sucking up all the media cycles. Someone today went after her on “the view” and the media picked it up. Perfect. She needs to build a buzz. Lots of time until Iowa.

Edited August 28, 2023 by auburnatl1