Is Anti-Zionism antisemitism?

[SaltyTiger 7,854]

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

"Easy to see you are against any Biblical influences but they are unavoidable."

And you are not against all  Biblical influences. I accept that. 

[homersapien 11,431]

12 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

And you are not against all  Biblical influences. I accept that. 

Well, what motivated you to imply I was rejecting (all) biblical beliefs by expressing that opinion?

Edited October 25, 2023 by homersapien

[SaltyTiger 7,854]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Well, what motivated you to say it, other than you felt I was attacking biblical values/beliefs.

That was yesterday and I am not going back through this thread for the answer. You are doing nothing more than trying to plow up an argument. Maybe I was irate with ICHY.

[homersapien 11,431]

12 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

That was yesterday and I am not going back through this thread for the answer. You are doing nothing more than trying to plow up an argument. Maybe I was irate with ICHY.

The answer is not in the thread, it is within you.

[SaltyTiger 7,854]

57 minutes ago, homersapien said:

The answer is not in the thread, it is within you.

You sound like ICHY 

[TexasTiger 13,003]

Arguably, the most devoutly religious Jews in Israel are anti-Zionists— are they anti-Semitic?

”Thus the Haredim stuck resolutely to their traditional clothes and ways. They would chat in Yiddish and only pray in Hebrew, too holy a language for social intercourse. And when the secular movement of modern Zionism started to take shape, they opposed this too: only God could bring about the new Israel, they argued. Trying to pre-empt God’s action through secular nationalism was a heresy. Judaism is fundamentally a religious community, they argued, and modern notions of race and nationhood are alien to it. Thus, for many Haredim, the state of Israel remains almost sacrilegious.”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2016/may/12/for-haredi-jews-secular-zionism-remains-a-religious-heresy#:~:text=The word Haredi is taken,the coming of the messiah.

[DKW 86 7,440]

28 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Arguably, the most devoutly religious Jews in Israel are anti-Zionists— are they anti-Semitic?

”Thus the Haredim stuck resolutely to their traditional clothes and ways. They would chat in Yiddish and only pray in Hebrew, too holy a language for social intercourse. And when the secular movement of modern Zionism started to take shape, they opposed this too: only God could bring about the new Israel, they argued. Trying to pre-empt God’s action through secular nationalism was a heresy. Judaism is fundamentally a religious community, they argued, and modern notions of race and nationhood are alien to it. Thus, for many Haredim, the state of Israel remains almost sacrilegious.”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2016/may/12/for-haredi-jews-secular-zionism-remains-a-religious-heresy#:~:text=The word Haredi is taken,the coming of the messiah.

Zealotry, it seems, is alive and well in the 21st Century. Sad.

[TexasTiger 13,003]

7 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Zealotry, it seems, is alive and well in the 21st Century. Sad.

Zealotry abounds across the board. But are the Haredim anti-Semitic?

[homersapien 11,431]

On 10/20/2023 at 2:35 PM, SaltyTiger said:

Not really. Do you not find the biblical passages intriguing? Of course you view Genesis as a myth but as early as chapter 17 God forms an everlasting covenant with Israel. 

Surely you don't believe Genesis is literal fact?

[homersapien 11,431]

On 10/9/2023 at 5:18 PM, PUB78 said:

Indeed it is. God promised this land to Israel.

And this is why fundamentalist Christians are so dangerous.

[PUB78 1,362]

7 hours ago, homersapien said:

And this is why fundamentalist Christians are so dangerous.

You hate the Jewish people?

[DKW 86 7,440]

10 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Zealotry abounds across the board. But are the Haredim anti-Semitic?

Dont care, expecting God to handle the repopulation, the Jews were always there, of Israel is something only a true Zealot would even think is a good standard to live by.

[homersapien 11,431]

2 hours ago, PUB78 said:

You hate the Jewish people?

No, I hate the idea that people (like you) would base their modern geopolitical opinions on Jewish religious documents over 2,000 years old.

It's not just irrational, it's absurd.

(But it's a great example of how religion can be so harmful to our species.)

Edited April 5 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,431]

On 10/24/2023 at 10:28 PM, SaltyTiger said:

And you are not against all  Biblical influences. I accept that. 

Well to be precise, I support only the parables contained therein that reflect positive values that didn't originate there, but simply occurred with the natural evolution and progress of our species. 

(Nothing wrong with repeating good habits. )

 

[SaltyTiger 7,854]

18 hours ago, homersapien said:

Surely you don't believe Genesis is literal fact?

What I believe as literal or not has nothing to do with what I asked you. God made a covenant. The entire Old Testament is based on it. I understand you feel it is all gunk. Just asked if you found it interesting.

[PUB78 1,362]

12 hours ago, homersapien said:

No, I hate the idea that people (like you) would base their modern geopolitical opinions on Jewish religious documents over 2,000 years old.

It's not just irrational, it's absurd.

(But it's a great example of how religion can be so harmful to our species.)

HOMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Psalms 2:1, Matthew 21:44, Genesis 12:3, and Zechariah 12:1-9.

I know for a scientific person as yourself, the Bible doesn't seem logicial in many ways in today's world. However, God and his Word, never changes. What  was spoke 2,000 years ago or earlier in the Bible, is still true and relevant for today.

 

 

[Leftfield 2,651]

34 minutes ago, PUB78 said:

I know for a scientific person as yourself, the Bible doesn't seem logicial in many ways in today's world. However, God and his Word, never changes. What  was spoke 2,000 years ago or earlier in the Bible, is still true and relevant for today.

Not to millions of other people in the country. And that's the point - not everyone believes all the things you believe.

There are some great teachings in the Bible as to how to be a good person, but the vast majority of those teachings are not exclusive to the Bible. Many of those teachings are also subject to different interpretations. 

[PUB78 1,362]

3 hours ago, Leftfield said:

Not to millions of other people in the country. And that's the point - not everyone believes all the things you believe.

There are some great teachings in the Bible as to how to be a good person, but the vast majority of those teachings are not exclusive to the Bible. Many of those teachings are also subject to different interpretations. 

You either believe Christ is the son of God, died for your sins and is the ONLY way to heaven or you don't.

THe consequences  of non-belief  will be  for eternity

[Leftfield 2,651]

1 minute ago, PUB78 said:

You either believe Christ is the son of God, died for your sins and is the ONLY way to heaven or you don't.

THe consequences  of non-belief  will be  for eternity

Fine, but my eternal soul is not part of the government's purview,  is it?

Conversely, it is not religion's purview to police my or other people's actions - that is the role of government and laws, and both are rightly supposed to be religion-neutral in order to treat all equally. Do you agree with that?

 

[homersapien 11,431]

On 4/5/2024 at 7:01 AM, SaltyTiger said:

What I believe as literal or not has nothing to do with what I asked you. God made a covenant. The entire Old Testament is based on it. I understand you feel it is all gunk. Just asked if you found it interesting.

No, it's a question I asked you in order to ascertain where you were coming from regarding religion.

And I never said the entire Old Testament is all "gunk", so your "understanding" is  "gunk". 

To answer your question directly, I find the Old Testament to be somewhat interesting as a cultural history and foundation for a religion, the same way I find Egyptian hieroglyphics interesting.  Both are equally relevant to modern humans.

Speaking of understanding, can I assume you don't accept Genesis as literal truth or should I assume you do think it is literal truth (since you apparently are reluctant to answer).

 

Edited April 8 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,431]

6 hours ago, PUB78 said:

HOMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Psalms 2:1, Matthew 21:44, Genesis 12:3, and Zechariah 12:1-9.

I know for a scientific person as yourself, the Bible doesn't seem logicial in many ways in today's world. However, God and his Word, never changes. What  was spoke 2,000 years ago or earlier in the Bible, is still true and relevant for today.

 

 

OK, fine.

[homersapien 11,431]

2 hours ago, PUB78 said:

You either believe Christ is the son of God, died for your sins and is the ONLY way to heaven or you don't.

THe consequences  of non-belief  will be  for eternity

OK, fine.

[SaltyTiger 7,854]

14 hours ago, homersapien said:

No, it's a question I asked you in order to ascertain where you were coming from a religious standpoint.

And I never said the entire Old Testament is all "gunk", so your "understanding" is  "gunk". 

To answer your question directly, I find the Old Testament to be somewhat interesting as a cultural history and foundation for a religion, the same way I find Egyptian hieroglyphics interesting.  Both are equally relevant to modern humans.

Speaking of understanding, can I assume you don't accept Genesis as literal truth or should I assume you do think it is literal truth (since you apparently are reluctant to answer).

 

You can assume you whatever your self prescribed above normal intelligence mind wants. We have been through this in past. Here you are digging up a discussion we had 5 months ago.
 

I don’t see a real value in hashing out literal or not. 

[DKW 86 7,440]

On 4/4/2024 at 9:25 AM, TexasTiger said:

Arguably, the most devoutly religious Jews in Israel are anti-Zionists— are they anti-Semitic?

”Thus the Haredim stuck resolutely to their traditional clothes and ways. They would chat in Yiddish and only pray in Hebrew, too holy a language for social intercourse. And when the secular movement of modern Zionism started to take shape, they opposed this too: only God could bring about the new Israel, they argued. Trying to pre-empt God’s action through secular nationalism was a heresy. Judaism is fundamentally a religious community, they argued, and modern notions of race and nationhood are alien to it. Thus, for many Haredim, the state of Israel remains almost sacrilegious.”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2016/may/12/for-haredi-jews-secular-zionism-remains-a-religious-heresy#:~:text=The word Haredi is taken,the coming of the messiah.

There are crazies all over the world...

[DKW 86 7,440]

16 hours ago, homersapien said:

To answer your question directly, I find the Old Testament to be somewhat interesting as a cultural history and foundation for a religion, the same way I find Egyptian hieroglyphics interesting.  Both are equally relevant to modern humans.

To compare the foundational texts of three of the largest active world religions to Egyptian Hieroglyphs of a religion and culture that died thousands of years ago shows an amazing anti-intellectualism on your part.

I can explain it to you, I cant comprehend it for you.