Is Anti-Zionism antisemitism?

[I_M4_AU 8,012]

9 hours ago, AUDub said:

Indeed they are not. 
 

 

 

And some times people who escape Hamas will tell the truth as they see it:

 

 

[AUDub 11,184]

47 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

And some times people who escape Hamas will tell the truth as they see it:

 

 

You should look him up. He’s an interesting one, an asset for the Shin Bet that was an important resource for Israel during the second intifada and prevented numerous attacks. He’s the son of one of Hamas’ founders  

That tweet is misinformation though. He’s not necessarily torching Hamas, but Palestinian leadership as a whole.

And he’s not wrong, but the situation is more complicated than “Palestinian leadership is blanket evil.”

The current accepted leadership of PNA is Fatah led by Mahmoud Abbas, who hasn’t won an election since 2006, in part because Hamas seized power following their legislative win in Gaza and purged Fatah from there. 

Fatah is ultimately the more reasonable party in Palestine, favoring negotiation to achieve some of their goals. They’re the ones that officially recognize Israel following the Oslo I Accord and the ones the world at large de facto considers the official government of the Palestinians. They favor the 2 state solution that gets bandied about. Because they *can* be brought to the table, Hamas doesn’t like that.

At the end of the day 2 factions vie for leadership in Palestine. One, Fatah, is obstinately supported by the West, and the other Hamas, is obstinately supported by Iran/Russia/China etc.

[AUDub 11,184]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Tell me, are you a Biden fan?  You have and still defend Biden as his approval rating tanks.  Would you vote for Biden in 2024?  I don’t support Trump for the Republican nominee and hope the Republicans can see he is not what is needed going forward, but if the left insists on comparing Biden to Trump as lefty did in his post, I will continue to point out Biden’s stupidity in running our country.

This is hilarious. You assert “trump wouldn’t have us in this mess” as the guy is literally praising Hamas’ cleverness lol. 

[Leftfield 2,679]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Who said take out Iran?

Well, when you say we should "wack" their leaders, not sure what else you could be referring to.

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

By the way, how do you make friends with someone who chants they want you dead?  We don’t need them as friends or the ones that agree with their philosophies.

I'm not talking about Iran. I'm talking about other countries around the world. We already have a reputation among many as an "empire" and colonizers who push their influence and way of life onto others. How would it look if we took charge and went in to strike Iran when they have not attacked us? Even many of our friends would not support that. And you'd be doing it at a time when China and Russia are making massive efforts to buddy up to areas of the world that already don't like us very much. Are you so obtuse as to not realize the effects that would have, or do you just not care?

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

The last time we whacked (thanks, I can always count on you) we did it in response to them shelling our base in Iraq after they shot down a Ukrainian airliner.  We didn’t tell them we were going to do it, we just did it and they made the first move.  My statements were consistent.

Please pay close attention to what I've highlighted.

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Typical leftist BS, you bring up Trump, I acknowledge it and you roll your eyes.

I rolled my eyes at your assertion that all this wouldn't have happened with Trump, not because you acknowledged anything. Though it did prove both my and AUDub's points, so good job.

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Tell me; can you defend Biden’s actions on the border, forgiegn policy, economics and his approval rating without mentioning Trump or the Trump administration?

Can you stay on topic? I've already pointed out I don't jump into every attack on Biden because there are things I don't agree with him on.

[auburnatl1 5,109]

41 minutes ago, AUDub said:

This is hilarious. You assert “trump wouldn’t have us in this mess” as the guy is literally praising Hamas’ cleverness lol. 

Trump stepped in it this again week. Describing first Putins invasion and now Hamas’s attack as … smart. Damn weird and creepy. Even for him.

[I_M4_AU 8,012]

1 hour ago, AUDub said:

This is hilarious. You assert “trump wouldn’t have us in this mess” as the guy is literally praising Hamas’ cleverness lol. 

Yes, your typical non answer.  Trump has always said stupid things, he even blasted Netanyahu for not prasing him or something like that.  That doesn’t change Trump wouldn’t have gotten us in this mess as he would not have been such a weak leader that helped having M4’s being used against Irael, sitting by and letting Russia invade Ukraine and is in a prolonged proxy war, having opened borders, forcing EV on the country when the infrastructure is not ready, etc, etc.

Predictable.

[AUDub 11,184]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Yes, your typical non answer.  Trump has always said stupid things, he even blasted Netanyahu for not prasing him or something like that.  That doesn’t change Trump wouldn’t have gotten us in this mess as he would not have been such a weak leader that helped having M4’s being used against Irael, sitting by and letting Russia invade Ukraine and is in a prolonged proxy war, having opened borders, forcing EV on the country when the infrastructure is not ready, etc, etc.

Predictable.

Just drop the pretense, MAGAt

[I_M4_AU 8,012]

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

Well, when you say we should "wack" their leaders, not sure what else you could be referring to.

I'm not talking about Iran. I'm talking about other countries around the world. We already have a reputation among many as an "empire" and colonizers who push their influence and way of life onto others. How would it look if we took charge and went in to strike Iran when they have not attacked us? Even many of our friends would not support that. And you'd be doing it at a time when China and Russia are making massive efforts to buddy up to areas of the world that already don't like us very much. Are you so obtuse as to not realize the effects that would have, or do you just not care?

Please pay close attention to what I've highlighted.

I rolled my eyes at your assertion that all this wouldn't have happened with Trump, not because you acknowledged anything. Though it did prove both my and AUDub's points, so good job.

Can you stay on topic? I've already pointed out I don't jump into every attack on Biden because there are things I don't agree with him on.

You’re as weak as Biden.  *Colonizers* is the the new buz word of the left?  What is it that should have happened?  It seems it is the cry of the oppressed on college campuses that parents are paying upwards of $ 50,000 for their kids *education*.  

[I_M4_AU 8,012]

3 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Just drop the pretense, MAGAt

What a comeback.  I thought better of you.

[AUDub 11,184]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

What a comeback.  I thought better of you.

And I find your mindless assertions regarding what would or would not happen with Trump in that office tiresome. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by AUDub

[AU9377 5,059]

16 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Yeah, I guess it would be better to let Biden just help negotiate the nuclear deal with Iran.

 

You do realize that without an agreement, Iran is proceeding on its own terms.  Almost any agreement in which inspectors have access to facilities was better than a totally unchecked program.  If Iran involves themselves in the current conflict, it will all be irrelevant due to a forced regime change.

[I_M4_AU 8,012]

11 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

You do realize that without an agreement, Iran is proceeding on its own terms.  Almost any agreement in which inspectors have access to facilities was better than a totally unchecked program.  If Iran involves themselves in the current conflict, it will all be irrelevant due to a forced regime change.

What do you think Iran is doing now, sitting on its rear end waiting for the US to decide what to do about the agreement?

What forced regime change are you talking about?

[homersapien 11,465]

23 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

That I do agree with. But a week after finding the horrors of Hamas isn’t the right time.  Emotions are too raw.  Also, if the Palestinians - all 2 million of them - would simply do the right thing and turn in the specific culprits this crisis would end quickly and then you could have the discussions you want. It’s time for normal to say “enough”, otherwise they’re complicit.

Easy to say, but - as in all civil wars - it would undoubtedly be a quick way to have your family targeted by the bad guys you are dropping a dime on.

[AU9377 5,059]

6 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

What do you think Iran is doing now, sitting on its rear end waiting for the US to decide what to do about the agreement?

What forced regime change are you talking about?

No.  I think they are full speed ahead.  That is my point. 

If Iran involves themselves militarily against Israel, their governing structure will be destroyed.

[homersapien 11,465]

19 hours ago, Leftfield said:

Yes, petty. He is literally doing what he is supposed to be doing, yet you still criticize. In your eyes, it's pretty much impossible for him to do anything right. I don't jump in to defend Biden from every single attack you make, because there are things I agree he should be criticized about, but this is not one of them. Just because he's not in front of everyone and telling them what a good job he's doing does not mean he isn't. 

Thanks for dealing with this idiot (so I can avoid it).

[Leftfield 2,679]

57 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

You’re as weak as Biden.  *Colonizers* is the the new buz word of the left?  What is it that should have happened?  It seems it is the cry of the oppressed on college campuses that parents are paying upwards of $ 50,000 for their kids *education*.  

Lol...and you're apparently as stupid as Trump.

It's weak to actually consider our place in the world and try to co-operate with others? It's weak to try to change our image with those that dislike us so they don't forge tighter bonds with each other against us?

"Colonizers" is not a buzzword of the left (go ahead and keep trying to pigeonhole me). It's a word that has been used all over the world with those who do not see us to be particularly benevolent. If you want to keep ignoring what other countries think of us, that's your right. I will continue to be thankful that you're not in charge of our foreign policy.

As Dub said, it's amusing to see you spin your wheels defending Trump. You seem to think nothing would have happened in Ukraine or Israel, simply because he's a "tough" guy and Biden is "weak," but you've given no actual reasons why Russia or Hamas would care. It's been pointed out by many on here that Trump was continuously praising Putin and helping his standing in the world, while not exactly being a friend of Ukraine, so I have no idea why you think things would have been better.

[AUDub 11,184]

Just now, AU9377 said:

No.  I think they are full speed ahead.  That is my point. 

If Iran involves themselves militarily against Israel, their governing structure will be destroyed.

Oh the Pentagon is probably dreaming of Iran blatantly trying to raise a fist at Israel. 

[AUDub 11,184]

“Really want to give the F35 a shakedown. Make our day”

[auburnatl1 5,109]

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

Easy to say, but - as in all civil wars - it would undoubtedly be a quick way to have your family targeted by the bad guys you are dropping a dime on.

Fair. But in the world of bad options, having the Israelis clean up your leadership mess feels a lot worse. 

This isn’t black or white, but there is a degree of Palestinian complacency to this imo.  

[AUDub 11,184]

Just now, auburnatl1 said:

Fair. But in the world of bad options, having the Israelis clean up your leadership mess feels a lot worse. 

This isn’t black or white, but there is a degree of Palestinian complacency to this imo.  

As I said in the other thread, it’s not so much complacency as resentment. They’re sealed in a ghetto, get bombed every so often (often killing innocent people) and die at a roughly 10:1 clip in the ongoing conflict. 

[I_M4_AU 8,012]

3 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

No.  I think they are full speed ahead.  That is my point. 

Thank God for the UK, France and Germany for upholding the oil sanctions.  Too bad the US has caved on their end.  It supplies Iran with much needed capital. 

5 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

If Iran involves themselves militarily against Israel, their governing structure will be destroyed.

By who?  Certainly not the US as we haven’t even done anything about the 27 or so Americans killed by Hamas or the 14 or so hostages.  We have sent more ships to the area from Norfolk the other day, good on Joe.

[AUDub 11,184]

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

Thank God for the UK, France and Germany for upholding the oil sanctions.  Too bad the US has caved on their end.  It supplies Iran with much needed capital. 

By who?  Certainly not the US as we haven’t even done anything about the 27 or so Americans killed by Hamas or the 14 or so hostages.  We have sent more ships to the area from Norfolk the other day, good on Joe.

Truly a moron lol. If a country like Iran formally declares war on Israel they’ll lose their armed forces to the US faster than Iraq did in the early 90s. 

[homersapien 11,465]

1 hour ago, AUDub said:

And I find your mindless assertions regarding what would or would not happen with Trump in that office tiresome. 

Don't think I've thanked you yet for interacting with this fool.

(I'm starting to feel guilty for putting him on "ignore".)

[I_M4_AU 8,012]

1 minute ago, AUDub said:

Truly a moron lol. If a country like Iran formally declares war on Israel they’ll lose their armed forces to the US faster than Iraq did in the early 90s. 

Iran doesn’t work that way.  They don’t *declare* anything, they just fund other terrorists groups to do their bidding.

[AUDub 11,184]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Iran doesn’t work that way.  They don’t *declare* anything, they just fund other terrorists groups to do their bidding.

Need I remind you that you were responding to “involves themselves militarily?”

Iran isn’t dumb enough to do it blatantly, true, but if they did any military fortifications in their country would be a smoking crater within days, if not hours. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by AUDub