Is Anti-Zionism antisemitism?

[SaltyTiger 7,854]

18 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Do I need to further explain it?

Not really. Do you not find the biblical passages intriguing? Of course you view Genesis as a myth but as early as chapter 17 God forms an everlasting covenant with Israel. 

[homersapien 11,431]

41 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Not really. Do you not find the biblical passages intriguing? Of course you view Genesis as a myth but as early as chapter 17 God forms an everlasting covenant with Israel. 

Yeah, right. God's chosen people.

Great example of a problem with religion.

[CoffeeTiger 5,166]

Quote

 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. ¹³ Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. ¹⁴ Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”

 

Imagine being a slave sold to Abraham /the Jews and the first thing they do to you is drop your pants and start carving up your penis with a knife explaining that it's what their God told them to do. 😭

 

 

Ancient times were wild. 

 

[SaltyTiger 7,854]

36 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Yeah, right. God's chosen people.

Great example of a problem with religion.

Yes. Gods chosen people according to the covenant.

[SaltyTiger 7,854]

2 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Not really. Do you not find the biblical passages intriguing? Of course you view Genesis as a myth but as early as chapter 17 God forms an everlasting covenant with Israel. 

Not carving. It is genital alteration.

[CoffeeTiger 5,166]

4 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Not carving. It is genital alteration.

Correction noted. 

Imagine being a slave sold to Abraham /the Jews and the first thing they do to you is drop your pants and start altering your genitals with a knife explaining that it's what their God told them to do. 😭

[AU9377 5,026]

3 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Not carving. It is genital alteration.

It does have some benefits from the viewpoint of hygiene, but at the end of the day some people make way too big of a deal out of it.....

[SaltyTiger 7,854]

1 minute ago, AU9377 said:

It does have some benefits from the viewpoint of hygiene, but at the end of the day some people make way too big of a deal out of it.....

Too big of a deal out of genital alteration? 

[AU9377 5,026]

5 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Too big of a deal out of genital alteration? 

I have no problem with people having their kids circumcised and have no problem if they don't.

[homersapien 11,431]

23 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Yes. Gods chosen people according to the covenant.

And do you think that should factor into our foreign policy?

Edited October 21, 2023 by homersapien

[SaltyTiger 7,854]

On 10/21/2023 at 2:32 PM, homersapien said:

And do you think that should factor into our foreign policy?

Stupid question. Religion “factors” in to everything thing we do. Live, marry, work, play, vote, etc…, Good article here.

https://oxfordre.com/politics/display/10.1093/acrefore/9780190228637.001.0001/acrefore-9780190228637-e-988

In 1994, Bill Clinton made a rare U.S. presidential appearance before the Israeli Knesset to celebrate the recent Israel–Jordan peace agreement. Near the end of his speech, Clinton recalled the words of his late Baptist pastor W. O. Vaught: “If you abandon Israel, God will never forgive you.” Clinton continued, with apparent approval, “[Vaught] said it is God’s will that Israel, the biblical home of the Jewish people, continue forever and ever” and ended with the promise: “your journey is our journey, and America will stand with you now and always” (Clinton, 1994). Clinton’s explicit invocation of his Baptist pastor and reference to a popular theological conviction that the Jewish people had a divine right to at least part of Palestine was received warmly by his Israeli audience. These statements were also largely uncontroversial in the United States, where a bipartisan and interreligious consensus over U.S. support for Israel had existed for decades.

 

[homersapien 11,431]

1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said:

Stupid question. Religion “factors” in to everything thing we do. Live, marry, work, play, vote, etc…, Good article here.

https://oxfordre.com/politics/display/10.1093/acrefore/9780190228637.001.0001/acrefore-9780190228637-e-988

In 1994, Bill Clinton made a rare U.S. presidential appearance before the Israeli Knesset to celebrate the recent Israel–Jordan peace agreement. Near the end of his speech, Clinton recalled the words of his late Baptist pastor W. O. Vaught: “If you abandon Israel, God will never forgive you.” Clinton continued, with apparent approval, “[Vaught] said it is God’s will that Israel, the biblical home of the Jewish people, continue forever and ever” and ended with the promise: “your journey is our journey, and America will stand with you now and always” (Clinton, 1994). Clinton’s explicit invocation of his Baptist pastor and reference to a popular theological conviction that the Jewish people had a divine right to at least part of Palestine was received warmly by his Israeli audience. These statements were also largely uncontroversial in the United States, where a bipartisan and interreligious consensus over U.S. support for Israel had existed for decades.

 

You did not answer my question.

Pointing out that religion plays such a central role in many people's lives is a very evasive response that dodges my question.

So, to reiterate: You're OK with the idea that U.S. foreign policy toward Israel - or any given country for that matter - should be influenced by a notion they are "Gods chosen people"? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by homersapien

[SaltyTiger 7,854]

On 10/22/2023 at 8:44 PM, homersapien said:

So, to reiterate: You're OK with the idea that U.S. foreign policy toward Israel - or any given country for that matter - should be influenced by a notion they are "Gods chosen people"? 

Being honest never have given it a lot of thought. Easy to see you are against any Biblical influences but they are unavoidable. There is a reason I mentioned the way we vote.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

14 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Being honest never have given it a lot of thought. Easy to see you are against any Biblical influences but they are unavoidable. There is a reason I mentioned the way we vote.

Perhaps you should give some thought to why you would prefer the "biblical" influences over the words of Jesus. 

Can you reconcile the God of the Old Testament to Jesus?

Did God change or, does the human understanding of God continually change as we understand ourselves.

[homersapien 11,431]

14 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Being honest never have given it a lot of thought. Easy to see you are against any Biblical influences but they are unavoidable. There is a reason I mentioned the way we vote.

I am certainly against religion dogma from playing a central role in our foreign policy.  The belief that a given country is "chosen" by God certainly falls into that category.

Our country's founders felt the same way.

And don't misrepresent me.  I am not against "any Biblical influences" influencing our politics - such as the empathetic Christian values that Jesus taught. I think what you find so "easy to see" are your own biases.

 

[homersapien 11,431]

32 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Can you reconcile the God of the Old Testament to Jesus?

 

Can't just worship part of the bible, have to worship the whole thing. 

Israelis are "Gods chosen people".

[autigeremt 6,666]

6 hours ago, homersapien said:

Can't just worship part of the bible, have to worship the whole thing. 

Israelis are "Gods chosen people".

Actually you shouldn’t worship the Bible. But you should follow the New Testament. 

[SaltyTiger 7,854]

8 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Perhaps you should give some thought to why you would prefer the "biblical" influences over the words of Jesus. 

Can you reconcile the God of the Old Testament to Jesus?

Did God change or, does the human understanding of God continually change as we understand ourselves.

Have no idea what you are blabbering about. You don’t either. Just a need with you to chime in.

[SaltyTiger 7,854]

7 hours ago, homersapien said:

I am certainly against religion dogma from playing a central role in our foreign policy.  The belief that a given country is "chosen" by God certainly falls into that category.

Our country's founders felt the same way.

And don't misrepresent me.  I am not against "any Biblical influences" influencing our politics - such as the empathetic Christian values that Jesus taught. I think what you find so "easy to see" are your own biases.

 

What biases? 

[homersapien 11,431]

22 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

What biases? 

Perceptions of being attacked because of your religious beliefs.

Edited October 25, 2023 by homersapien

[SaltyTiger 7,854]

41 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Perceptions of being attacked because of your religious beliefs.

What beliefs are talking about?

[AU9377 5,026]

This topic has become more and more pertinent as the conflict in the Middle East unfolds.

[homersapien 11,431]

28 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

What beliefs are talking about?

The ones you perceive I am attacking. 

Apparently, that includes anything I criticize - for example, such as Israel as being "Gods chosen people" as being against "any Biblical influences" influencing our politics.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by homersapien

[SaltyTiger 7,854]

5 minutes ago, homersapien said:

The ones you perceive I am attacking.

So we are not understanding each other. I don’t feel attacked by you. I am in agreement with you on foreign policy. I do not feel it should be determined in an effort to guide or attempt to fulfill Biblical prophecy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[homersapien 11,431]

6 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

So we are not understanding each other. I don’t feel attacked by you. I am in agreement with you on foreign policy. I do not feel it should be determined in an effort to guide or attempt to fulfill Biblical prophecy.

"Easy to see you are against any Biblical influences but they are unavoidable."

Apparently, you saw my opinion as an "attack".

Edited October 25, 2023 by homersapien