Is Anti-Zionism antisemitism?

[homersapien 11,382]

26 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Just exactly WHEN and WHERE any crowd of Jews shouted "Death to Anyone."

You are so clueless it damages the soul...

Speaking of clueless, have you heard the Jews are bombing the s*** out of Gaza?  So far, the death toll is estimated to be over 30,000, including at least 12,300 children.

And you say cluelessness is damaging my soul??? 

But, since Israel is our ally, I suppose we are supposed to just close our eyes to that - right?  

I suggest  you try harder not to sound like an idiot.  That post was a total fail.

 

[homersapien 11,382]

40 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Just exactly WHEN and WHERE any crowd of Jews shouted "Death to Anyone."

You are so clueless it damages the soul...

Speaking of clueless, have you heard the Jews are bombing the s*** out of Gaza?  So far, the death toll is estimated to be over 30,000, including at least 12,300 children.

And you say cluelessness is damaging my soul??? 

But, since Israel is our ally, I suppose we are supposed to just close our eyes to that - right? 

I suggest you try harder not to sound like a clueless and soulless idiot.  That post was a total fail.

Edited April 10 by homersapien

[auburnatl1 4,940]

23 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Speaking of clueless, have you heard the Jews are bombing the s*** out of Gaza?  So far, the death toll is estimated to be over 30,000, including at least 12,300 children.

And you say cluelessness is damaging my soul??? 

But, since Israel is our ally, I suppose we are supposed to just close our eyes to that - right? 

I suggest you try harder not to sound like a clueless and soulless idiot.  That post was a total fail.

I agree that Netanyahu  has crossed the line and now just seems to be in full mindless retribution mode.  He’s gotta go. However as a side note, there is something ….  deeply wrong with Islam. No other religion (Jewish, Christianity, Hindu. Taoism, ect) in modern times  has consistently and repeatedly exhibited this kind of behavior.  It’s understandable to focus on Gaza  - but from NY to Jakarta, and almost everything thing in between -  terrorism. Over and over and over. Every month.  I realize you see all religions as the tooth fairy, but in the Quran it advocates jihad and rewards those who die for it with paradise. This is unique.  All other religions generally condemn aggression or suicide.  This is a guaranteed disaster for the 10-20% of the species that are unstable, easily radicalize, and are prone to violence. 

Again, I’m not defending Israel’s behavior and I understand the Golan hts situation.  But I almost feel Israel has begun losing their minds in frustration. They’ve tried the dove and the sword many times over the decades.

[I_M4_AU 7,850]

3 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

I agree that Netanyahu  has crossed the line and now just seems to be in full mindless retribution mode.  He’s gotta go.

So you have determined this have you?  This war could have been resolved already if HAMAS were to surrender the hostages and turned themselves in, but let’s blame Netanyahu for standing up against terrorism unlike the US that is funding both sides of the conflict.

6 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

However as a side note, there is something ….  deeply wrong with Islam. No other religion (Jewish, Christianity, Hindu. Taoism, ect) in modern times  has consistently and repeatedly exhibited this kind of behavior.  It’s understandable to focus on Gaza  - but from NY to Jakarta, and almost everything thing in between -  terrorism. Over and over and over. Every month.

This is a lot more reasoned.  America, at one time, would not negotiate with terrorists, now it seems we appease their every whim.  We have pro-Palestinian protesters chanting *Death to America* in Dearborn Michigan and our President says nothing.  You’re right; something is deeply wrong.

12 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Again, I’m not defending Israel’s behavior and I understand the Golan hts situation.  But I almost feel Israel has begun losing their minds in frustration. They’ve tried the dove and the sword many times over the decades.

Maybe its time to let Israel eliminate a terrorist organization and see how that goes.  Israel could show us a blueprint as to how to handle terrorists.

[I_M4_AU 7,850]

Tough negotiators.  

Edited April 10 by I_M4_AU

[auburnatl1 4,940]

5 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

So you have determined this have you?  This war could have been resolved already if HAMAS were to surrender the hostages and turned themselves in, but let’s blame Netanyahu for standing up against terrorism unlike the US that is funding both sides of the conflict.

This is a lot more reasoned.  America, at one time, would not negotiate with terrorists, now it seems we appease their every whim.  We have pro-Palestinian protesters chanting *Death to America* in Dearborn Michigan and our President says nothing.  You’re right; something is deeply wrong.

Maybe its time to let Israel eliminate a terrorist organization and see how that goes.  Israel could show us a blueprint as to how to handle terrorists.

Youre missing the  point. You can’t eliminate Hamas. It’s not the bully on the playground problem (that’s Putin). It’s  culturally systemic and inherently recruits much faster when attacked. So you think if magic ninjas identified every Hamas fighter on earth and shot them all in the head, problem solved?  Really? 

[I_M4_AU 7,850]

Just now, auburnatl1 said:

Youre missing the  point. You can’t eliminate Hamas. It’s not the bully on the playground problem (that’s Putin). It’s  culturally systemic and inherently recruits much faster when attacked. So you think if magic ninjas identified every Hamas fighter on earth and shot them all in the head, problem solved?  Really? 

No I don’t think that eliminating HAMAS will solve the terrorist problem, but I do believe we need a win in this area.  HAMAS is probably the worst as the West Bank is not as militant.  It is better than throwing up your hands an giving in to their demands.  Where has our backbone gone since Biden was elected?

[auburnatl1 4,940]

9 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

No I don’t think that eliminating HAMAS will solve the terrorist problem, but I do believe we need a win in this area.  HAMAS is probably the worst as the West Bank is not as militant.  It is better than throwing up your hands a giving in to their demands.  Where has our backbone gone since Biden was elected?

 I’m not supporting Biden but this isn’t a back bone issue. It’s a judgement call simply about Netanyahu. Hes a blunt instrument and at some point you have to decide if he’s actually accomplishing anything productive or just blowing up stuff and slaughtering families  (the perfect Hamas recruiting tool). I realize we disagree but imo Netanyahu is setting his country up for decades  of even worse violence.

 

[I_M4_AU 7,850]

50 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

I’m not supporting Biden but this isn’t a back bone issue. It’s a judgement call simply about Netanyahu.

Sure it is, for America.  Biden was in full support of Israel until Dearborn got involved. There has been NO criticism of HAMAS after the first few weeks.  HAMAS has played ole Joe to the point he is thinking of defunding offensive weapons for Israel.

But you’re right, we won’t agree.

[CoffeeTiger 5,111]

5 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

So you agree with me then?

All of us are going to feel pretty silly if we wake up in the afterlife and just see the Egyptian cat God staring at us licking its paws and purring. 

[DKW 86 7,425]

On 4/10/2024 at 12:36 PM, homersapien said:

Speaking of clueless, have you heard the Jews are bombing the s*** out of Gaza?  So far, the death toll is estimated to be over 30,000, including at least 12,300 children. **** AROUND AND FIND OUT IS AN UGLY BUSINESS MODEL.

And you say cluelessness is damaging my soul??? 

But, since Israel is our ally, I suppose we are supposed to just close our eyes to that - right?  YES

I suggest  you try harder not to sound like an idiot.  That post was a total fail. WELL THEN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ONE OF YOURS.

 

And there you go. The way to beat someone acting like Nazis and dedicated to your destruction is to wipe them out, like we did in WWII.

 

 

Edited April 12 by DKW 86

[homersapien 11,382]

2 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

And there you go. The way top beat someone acting like Nazis and dedicated to your destruction is to wipe them out, like we did in WWII.

 

 

WTF was that??

(But I see IM4 "liked it". )

[DKW 86 7,425]

On 4/10/2024 at 9:49 PM, homersapien said:

WTF was that??

(But I see IM4 "liked it". )

I dont ever expect you to understand anything not put in yo po lil head by the party.

 

Edited April 12 by DKW 86

[I_M4_AU 7,850]

1 hour ago, DKW 86 said:

I dont ever expect you to understand anything not put in yo po lil head by the party.

 

It is interesting to note the one of the commentators mentioned that today the raid on Dresden would be a war crime, but 75 years ago it was part of war.  It is similar to the bombing of London by the Germans in the beginning of the war.

Removing hate and revenge from war is a difficult task.

Edited April 12 by I_M4_AU

[homersapien 11,382]

So, DKW thinks Gaza is analogous to WWII.  Got it.

[homersapien 11,382]

On 4/10/2024 at 2:32 PM, auburnatl1 said:

I agree that Netanyahu  has crossed the line and now just seems to be in full mindless retribution mode.  He’s gotta go. However as a side note, there is something ….  deeply wrong with Islam. No other religion (Jewish, Christianity, Hindu. Taoism, ect) in modern times  has consistently and repeatedly exhibited this kind of behavior.  It’s understandable to focus on Gaza  - but from NY to Jakarta, and almost everything thing in between -  terrorism.

Over and over and over. Every month.  I realize you see all religions as the tooth fairy, but in the Quran it advocates jihad and rewards those who die for it with paradise. This is unique.  All other religions generally condemn aggression or suicide.  This is a guaranteed disaster for the 10-20% of the species that are unstable, easily radicalize, and are prone to violence. 

Again, I’m not defending Israel’s behavior and I understand the Golan hts situation.  But I almost feel Israel has begun losing their minds in frustration. They’ve tried the dove and the sword many times over the decades.

I meant to respond to this in real time but I do agree with you that Islam - in particular - has a major problem with radicalism, at least at this time in history.  

But I am not certain or, in other words, I am not enough of a scholar  - to blame that entirely on the Quran as being unique in promoting radical xenophobia.

I think there are just too many historical examples of many many other religions acting the same way at given points in their histories.  No doubt these radicals rationalized justification based on their sacred text.

And there are also periods in Muslim history - their "golden age" - in which the greater Muslim communities promoted tolerance, as well as major advances in mathematics and science. (At least until one of their "scholars" pronounced mathematics the "work of the devil". )

But you're right about  my general regard for pretty much all religions. (I used to think there might be exceptions, but I abandoned that idea when even Buddhists - whose canon emphasizes non-violence - showed a capacity for it. 

Religious believe is fundamentally the same as believing in the "tooth fairy" but the capacity for it to inspire evil in adults is vastly greater. 

 

 

 

Edited April 14 by homersapien

[auburnatl1 4,940]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

I meant to respond to this in real time but I do agree with you that Islam - in particular - has a major problem with radicalism, at least at this time in history.  

But I am not certain - in other words, I am not enough of a scholar  - to blame that entirely on the Quran as being unique in promoting radical xenophobia.

I think there are just too many historical examples of many many other religions acting the same way at given points in their histories.  No doubt these radicals rationalized justification based on their sacred text.

And there are also periods in history - their "golden age" in which some Muslim communities promoted tolerance as well as major advances in mathematics and science. (At least until one of their "scholars" pronounced mathematics the "work of the devil".)

But you're right about my general regard for pretty much all religions. (I used to think there might be exceptions, but I abandoned that idea when even Buddhists - whose tradition actually emphasis non-violence - showed a capacity for it. 

Religious believe is fundamentally the same as believing in the "tooth fairy" but the capacity for it to inspire evil in adults is vastly greater. 

 

 

 

I understand your pov.

[CoffeeTiger 5,111]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

I meant to respond to this in real time but I do agree with you that Islam - in particular - has a major problem with radicalism, at least at this time in history.  

But I am not certain - in other words, I am not enough of a scholar  - to blame that entirely on the Quran as being unique in promoting radical xenophobia.

I think there are just too many historical examples of many many other religions acting the same way at given points in their histories.  No doubt these radicals rationalized justification based on their sacred text.

And there are also periods in history - their "golden age" in which some Muslim communities promoted tolerance as well as major advances in mathematics and science. (At least until one of their "scholars" pronounced mathematics the "work of the devil".)

But you're right about my general regard for pretty much all religions. (I used to think there might be exceptions, but I abandoned that idea when even Buddhists - whose tradition actually emphasis non-violence - showed a capacity for it. 

Religious believe is fundamentally the same as believing in the "tooth fairy" but the capacity for it to inspire evil in adults is vastly greater. 

 

 

 

In particular, for much of its history The Muslim Ottoman Empire was uniquely tolerant of other religions and cultures within its boundaries compared to most other nations in existence at that time. 

They used an Islamic concept called Dhimmi that guaranteed property, life, and religious rights to Christians, Jews, (basically any non-Muslim), as long as that person swore loyalty to the State and paid a tribute/poll tax.  

It wasn't full religious freedom or anything, but non-Muslims living in the Ottoman Empire were in many times better off than non-Christians living in most European States, and of course Christians became pretty violent against each other by the time the Reformation rolled around.  

 

The Islamic middle east is of course among the least religious tolerant place in todays world though.

 

[DKW 86 7,425]

21 hours ago, homersapien said:

So, DKW thinks Gaza is analogous to WWII.  Got it.

Similar adversaries, yes. The WWII Nazis actually trained the folks that eventually lead Hamas.

Here, I even quoted it in Wikipedia so you can understand it since it is your go-to quote source.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world

Edited April 13 by DKW 86

[homersapien 11,382]

6 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Similar adversaries, yes. The WWII Nazis actually trained the folks that eventually lead Hamas.

Here, I even quoted it in Wikipedia so you can understand it since it is your go-to quote source.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world

 

OK, got it.  You think Gaza is the same as Nazi Germany.

Would fire bombing them a la Dresden or Hamburg be in order?

[homersapien 11,382]

On 4/10/2024 at 8:14 PM, DKW 86 said:

And there you go. The way to beat someone acting like Nazis and dedicated to your destruction is to wipe them out, like we did in WWII.

 

Men, women and children included?

And that will solve the terrorist problem in your opinion?

[DKW 86 7,425]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

OK, got it.  You think Gaza is the same as Nazi Germany.

Would fire bombing them a la Dresden or Hamburg be in order?

Yes.

[DKW 86 7,425]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

Men, women and children included?

And that will solve the terrorist problem in your opinion?

Yes.

[homersapien 11,382]

3 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Yes.

Your not just dumb, you're crazy.

[DKW 86 7,425]

8 hours ago, homersapien said:

Your not just dumb, you're crazy.

I am a Practical Realist who knows history. When you are dealing with Islamic Zealots, you must deal with them just as we dealt with the Nazi Zealots. The heart of these new zealots go back to WWII and they had quite a relationship with the Nazis even back then. They had post war Nazi advisors. The links here could go on and on. Anti-Semitism breeds strange bed fellows. 

Seriously homer, why do you think that Jordan and Egypt will not take a single Gazan Refugee?

Postwar Career of Nazi Ideologue Johann von Leers, aka Omar Amin, the "First-Ranking German" in Nasser's Egypt

 

 

Edited April 14 by DKW 86