More Fallout from Biden's Withdrawal from Afghanistan

[W.E.D 11,070]

Does this board not realize we had been heavily withdrawing troops from Afghanistan before the Biden Presidency started?  Y'all completely forget that Trump signed an agreement with Taliban to have a complete withdraw by May 2021?

In Trump's last year of Presidency they reduced forces in Afghanistan from 13,000 to 2500.  Do you people not realize at the high of the war we had 10x the amount of US Forces in Afghanistan during his comments than we did at the start of his presidency.

There is basic context you refuse to grasp or are just intellectually dishonest.  So yes, it would be much harder and longer to withdraw 25,000 people in the middle of a massive war than it would be to withdraw 2,500 people.

[AUFAN78 3,906]

1 hour ago, W.E.D said:

Does this board not realize we had been heavily withdrawing troops from Afghanistan before the Biden Presidency started?  Y'all completely forget that Trump signed an agreement with Taliban to have a complete withdraw by May 2021?

That deadline was ultimately deferred by the Biden admin and could have been deferred longer. And that doesn't negate strategic blunders up and until that point.

1 hour ago, W.E.D said:

In Trump's last year of Presidency they reduced forces in Afghanistan from 13,000 to 2500.  Do you people not realize at the high of the war we had 10x the amount of US Forces in Afghanistan during his comments than we did at the start of his presidency.

Your point?

1 hour ago, W.E.D said:

There is basic context you refuse to grasp or are just intellectually dishonest.  So yes, it would be much harder and longer to withdraw 25,000 people in the middle of a massive war than it would be to withdraw 2,500 people.

It would be much easier to effectively plan and execute the evacuation of X number of people prior to a radical incursion. The point.

[I_M4_AU 7,842]

1 hour ago, W.E.D said:

Does this board not realize we had been heavily withdrawing troops from Afghanistan before the Biden Presidency started?  Y'all completely forget that Trump signed an agreement with Taliban to have a complete withdraw by May 2021?

In Trump's last year of Presidency they reduced forces in Afghanistan from 13,000 to 2500.  Do you people not realize at the high of the war we had 10x the amount of US Forces in Afghanistan during his comments than we did at the start of his presidency.

There is basic context you refuse to grasp or are just intellectually dishonest.  So yes, it would be much harder and longer to withdraw 25,000 people in the middle of a massive war than it would be to withdraw 2,500 people.

Yes, we realize that Trump drew down forces in the year and a half before his ouster.  We also realize there were ZERO deaths in that time frame due to his negotiations (his badassery).  We had planned to be out by May of 2021 by the time Ramadan was over so no uprising would have take place during that holy time in Afghanistan and the surrounding territories. 

We also realize Trump, in his plan, would not have left $80 billion of weaponry behind to be used by what was left over.  When Biden took over it was really too late to withdraw by May of 2021, so he decided it would be great to be out by the anniversary of 9-11 for the optics of it all.  Unfortunately, that is in the middle of war season in that part of the world and he foolishly stated he wanted out by 8/31.  The Taliban recognized Biden was a weak man and held him to that date and Biden was painted into a corner.

The withdrawal was going to be messy no matter what, but Biden made is more messy than it had to be.  Yes, I can see you have only the basic of context here.  There were several threads that have addressed this in the past and the Biden appologists are right on board with you.

[AU9377 4,934]

4 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

How do you know what Hannity picked up?  Are you a fan?

When you see people repeating Fox personalities long enough, you know what it smells like.  The difference between us is this.... Had the same thing happened under Trump, I would have still given him credit for getting us the f*** out of that sandbox of death.

Edited October 10, 2023 by AU9377

[AU9377 4,934]

4 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

How is Hannity involved here? I see Biden warning against leaving equipment behind. But that’s what he actually did. Don’t see his grandchildren in any danger as of yet, at least the ones he acknowledges as his grandchildren. I guess you don’t get status until you have pulled the hairs on his legs. 

The plan all along was to leave the government in place with the resources it needed to maintain control.  The fact that they couldn't, or more accurately wouldn't, do that is more proof that we should have been out of there years before.  Some of you like to pluck something completely out of context and use it to attempt to show something totally unrelated to circumstances being discussed.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

46 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

The plan all along was to leave the government in place with the resources it needed to maintain control. 

Well,,, sort of.  When the negotiations for withdrawal did not include the Afghan government,,, it became obvious that, that government would not hold up.

[AUFAN78 3,906]

1 hour ago, AU9377 said:

The difference between us is this.... Had the same thing happened under Trump, I would have still given him credit for getting us the f*** out of that sandbox of death.

Both Trump and Biden deserve credit for getting us out of Afghanistan. But that is not what the OP was about nor the problem. The difference between us is this, I can call a botched withdrawal what it was and you cannot. I'll let you expound upon your reasons. 

[AU9377 4,934]

1 hour ago, AUFAN78 said:

Both Trump and Biden deserve credit for getting us out of Afghanistan. But that is not what the OP was about nor the problem. The difference between us is this, I can call a botched withdrawal what it was and you cannot. I'll let you expound upon your reasons. 

The withdrawal not going smoothly isn't debatable.  The question is whether it would have ever been without problems?  The original claim I was responding to was that Biden decided unilaterally to leave behind military equipment for terrorists.  The plan, regardless of who was President, was to leave a well armed government authority in place.  I would agree that we should have known that the place and many of the people simply could not be domesticated after 20 years and 150 years of history before that.

[AUFAN78 3,906]

8 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

The withdrawal not going smoothly isn't debatable.  The question is whether it would have ever been without problems?  The original claim I was responding to was that Biden decided unilaterally to leave behind military equipment for terrorists.  The plan, regardless of who was President, was to leave a well armed government authority in place.  I would agree that we should have known that the place and many of the people simply could not be domesticated after 20 years and 150 years of history before that.

I don't want to rehash what has been debated ad nauseum on this forum since that dreadful exit. But there were differences in exit plans between administrations. No one can possibly know if there would have been problems with the former admins exit plan as it wasn't executed. The plans also differed on who and what would be left behind. Again there is no way to glean the differences that would have made as one was executed and the other was not, but I have confidence in the former based on interviews with intelligence and logistic officials. 

[Son of A Tiger 561]

10 hours ago, W.E.D said:

Does this board not realize we had been heavily withdrawing troops from Afghanistan before the Biden Presidency started?  Y'all completely forget that Trump signed an agreement with Taliban to have a complete withdraw by May 2021?

In Trump's last year of Presidency they reduced forces in Afghanistan from 13,000 to 2500.  Do you people not realize at the high of the war we had 10x the amount of US Forces in Afghanistan during his comments than we did at the start of his presidency.

There is basic context you refuse to grasp or are just intellectually dishonest.  So yes, it would be much harder and longer to withdraw 25,000 people in the middle of a massive war than it would be to withdraw 2,500 people.

I suggest you read this. 

Timeline of U.S. Withdrawal from Afghanistan - FactCheck.org

And I would note;

1. If I'm not mistaken not one American soldier was killed in combat during Trump's presidency.

2. Biden's withdrawal was poorly planned by any measure. Lots of marines were killed and lots of military equipment was stupidly left behind. The M-4 rifles are now in the hands of Hamas terrorists killing Israelis.  Haeven only knows who has the rest of it.

3. Biden violated the "no Americans left behind" pledge and left not only a hundred or more of our guys behind but many of the friendly Afghan interpreters. Some private entities helped some of our guys get out but not all have ever been accounted for.

How anyone can rationalize the ugly Biden withdrawal escapes me. It's right along side BenGhazi.

[W.E.D 11,070]

16 minutes ago, Son of A Tiger said:

1. If I'm not mistaken not one American soldier was killed in combat during Trump's presidency.

Nope.  False

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-trump-afghanistan/fact-check-u-s-forces-did-not-experience-18-months-without-casualties-in-afghanistan-during-trump-admin-contrary-to-his-claims-idUSL2N2X92S8

16 minutes ago, Son of A Tiger said:

2. Biden's withdrawal was poorly planned by any measure. Lots of marines were killed and lots of military equipment was stupidly left behind. The M-4 rifles are now in the hands of Hamas terrorists killing Israelis.  Haeven only knows who has the rest of it.

They were left with the Afghan military.  We spent billions at the end of Trumps presidency and the start of Bidens building them up.  They collapsed and were taken.  They weren't just left in a box.  Any sophisticated weapons were removed and military planes/helicopters were stripped of any parts making them inoperable. 

18 minutes ago, Son of A Tiger said:

3. Biden violated the "no Americans left behind" pledge and left not only a hundred or more of our guys behind but many of the friendly Afghan interpreters. Some private entities helped some of our guys get out but not all have ever been accounted for.

I agree every translator should have been brought back.  Crazy who was blocking that....lets check the tapes and see.  OMG It was the GOP.  CRAZY

https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/2022-10-27/afghanistan-interpreters-grassley-7827439.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/08/17/16-republicans-voted-against-special-visas-help-afghanistan-people/8163392002/

[Son of A Tiger 561]

OK I was wrong about casualties but if you note I said I wasn't sure of it. But I disagree with you about the equipment left behind, the M-4s being a good example.

But let's cut through all the BS and let me just ask,,,,,,,,,do you think Biden's Afghan withdrawal was poorly planned and the results reflecting that.

 

[jj3jordan 2,053]

7 hours ago, W.E.D said:

Nope.  False

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-trump-afghanistan/fact-check-u-s-forces-did-not-experience-18-months-without-casualties-in-afghanistan-during-trump-admin-contrary-to-his-claims-idUSL2N2X92S8

They were left with the Afghan military.  We spent billions at the end of Trumps presidency and the start of Bidens building them up.  They collapsed and were taken.  They weren't just left in a box.  Any sophisticated weapons were removed and military planes/helicopters were stripped of any parts making them inoperable. 

I agree every translator should have been brought back.  Crazy who was blocking that....lets check the tapes and see.  OMG It was the GOP.  CRAZY

https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/2022-10-27/afghanistan-interpreters-grassley-7827439.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/08/17/16-republicans-voted-against-special-visas-help-afghanistan-people/8163392002/

These last two articles don’t say anything about the program being blocked. It is still ongoing. The house passed the extension past 2023 easily  and Grassley is concerned about reducing standards for entry because it will could allow unvetted applicants to enter the US along with legit applicants. I don’t blame him. We need to be sure who is using the program. If Biden and his admin was competent it would not be a problem. No problem though just have them walk in the southern border and nobody will say a thing.

[AURex 1,999]

If I understand correctly (correct me if I am wrong -- citing legitimate sources, not wingnut crappola), the idea of Uniparty is   -- everyone other than Trump and QAnon and all the other fringe folks. In other words, if you have a brain, you are Uniparty. 😄