Republican Christo Fascism

[homersapien 11,431]

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/18/first-rule-of-the-anti-abortion-playbook-dont-let-the-public-vote-on-abortion-00132049

Conservatives move to keep abortion off the 2024 ballot

“We don’t believe those rights should be subjected to majority vote.”

 

"And while conservatives celebrated the fall of Roe for returning the question of abortion rights to the people, these efforts are seen as an implicit admission that anti-abortion groups don’t believe they can win at the ballot box — even in red states — and that the best way to keep restrictions on the procedure is to keep voters from weighing in directly."

[I_M4_AU 7,958]

What a stupid statement.  People have a better way of weighing in at the state level than they do nationally.  Nationally they have to rely on Reps and Senators to bend to their will as opposed to voting for what each state wants on a one person one vote (majority rule) basis.

Rediculous article, but typical of trying to bend the narrative in a certain way.

[jj3jordan 2,059]

It would be terrible to save the lives of millions of babies per year. Wonder how the babies would vote if they were offered the chance to live or be sucked into a sink. The vast majority of pro abortion supporters have already been born. Lucky for them, just not for the unfortunately timed fetus. But feel free to support the right murder babies homer. You wear it proudly.

[homersapien 11,431]

21 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

It would be terrible to save the lives of millions of babies per year. Wonder how the babies would vote if they were offered the chance to live or be sucked into a sink. The vast majority of pro abortion supporters have already been born. Lucky for them, just not for the unfortunately timed fetus. But feel free to support the right murder babies homer. You wear it proudly.

Your embrace of Christo Fascism is duly noted (as if there was any doubt).

But thanks for validating the OP.

[CoffeeTiger 5,166]

22 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

What a stupid statement.  People have a better way of weighing in at the state level than they do nationally.  Nationally they have to rely on Reps and Senators to bend to their will as opposed to voting for what each state wants on a one person one vote (majority rule) basis.

Rediculous article, but typical of trying to bend the narrative in a certain way.

 

Sounds like this article struck a nerve...no it's not ridiculous at all. It's pointing out an obvious strategy that Republicans themselves are admitting to using. They know that a majority of citizens, even in Red States, oppose full abortion bans, so they are doing everything they can to stop the issue from ever being put on voting ballots. 

Republican Christians don't WANT to allow people to vote directly on the issue of abortion because they know they'll almost always lose. 

Republicans are transparently betting that they can subvert the desires of the majority on this issue while still maintaining power by throwing red meat at their base on other issues. They are betting that Republi9can voters may disagree with their stance on abortion, but as long as they are kosher on most other issues then they'll never lose power.  Even in Republican States where the abortion rights measures passed on the ballots, Republicans are promising to undo it via executive or judicial fiat. 

 

You're also wrong that people have more 'say' in their representatives at the state level. State government elections are just as highly gerrymandered as the federal districts are. Putting the issue of abortion on the ballots is the only real way for 'majority rules' to prevail on abortion...which is why Republicans are trying to stop that from happening. 

 

[jj3jordan 2,059]

43 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Your embrace of Christo Fascism is duly noted (as if there was any doubt).

But thanks for validating the OP.

Proudly a member of what you have named Christo Fascism. 😎

[I_M4_AU 7,958]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Republican Christians don't WANT to allow people to vote directly on the issue of abortion because they know they'll almost always lose. 

This kind of speculation is what is wrong with your inference about Republicans.  Your bias, as a liberal, is not hard to pick out.  There have been 24 states that have instituted abortion bans since Roe v Wade has been overturned, 7 states have voted to uphold abortion in their state constitutions, that all in a year and a half.  It took 50 years to change the abortion stance in the US and it wasn’t done by vote.

Please tell me which is a quicker way of letting the people voice their opinion about abortion.

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Republicans are transparently betting that they can subvert the desires of the majority on this issue while still maintaining power by throwing red meat at their base on other issues.

How are the Republicans subverting the desires of the majority by allowing states to amend their constitutions about abortion?  The Supreme Court ruling should be hailed as a success in the eyes of abortion advocates.  Yes, it temporarily restricted abortions, but it gave power to the people no matter how distasteful the outcome.

 

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Republicans are promising to undo it via executive or judicial

Promising and doing are two different things.

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Putting the issue of abortion on the ballots is the only real way for 'majority rules' to prevail on abortion...which is why Republicans are trying to stop that from happening. 

Yes, I see you agree that putting abortion on the ballot is the only way majority will rule and that is at the state level.  If you are trying to say abortion will be on a national ballot, it never will be.  If abortion will become a national law Congress has to do make it so, that is their job.  By saying it will be on the ballot you are trying to push the narrative that a person must vote Democrat to get this done and that is disingenuous at best.  Take the win and let the states get through this issue and the people will have spoken.

[homersapien 11,431]

5 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Proudly a member of what you have named Christo Fascism. 😎

It's not just what I call it:

https://www.texasobserver.org/carter-heyward-white-christian-nationalism-book/

https://southseattleemerald.com/2022/07/15/opinion-diagnosis-christo-fascism/

https://brutalsouth.substack.com/p/a-field-guide-to-christofascism

https://philarchive.org/archive/FOEASH

https://www.publicchristian.com/christofascism-intends-to-dominate/

........ etc., etc., etc.

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,166]

5 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

This kind of speculation is what is wrong with your inference about Republicans.  Your bias, as a liberal, is not hard to pick out.  There have been 24 states that have instituted abortion bans since Roe v Wade has been overturned, 7 states have voted to uphold abortion in their state constitutions, that all in a year and a half.  It took 50 years to change the abortion stance in the US and it wasn’t done by vote.

Almost every state that has put the issue of abortion on the voter ballot after the overturning of roevwade has ended up with abortion bans being defeated by the people. That's not bias or speculation. That's fact. 

The people want access to some abortion options. The only way the pro-ban crowd can win out is by having Republican politicians institute full bans without the input of the people 

 

 

5 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Please tell me which is a quicker way of letting the people voice their opinion about abortion.

 

Direct ballot voting is the quickest way for people to voice their opinions on an important issue like abortion. 

 

5 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

How are the Republicans subverting the desires of the majority by allowing states to amend their constitutions about abortion?  The Supreme Court ruling should be hailed as a success in the eyes of abortion advocates.  Yes, it temporarily restricted abortions, but it gave power to the people no matter how distasteful the outcome.

It gave power to the State legislative branches of government. Some States are better about having their state governments represent the will of their populace than others. 

 

 

5 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Yes, I see you agree that putting abortion on the ballot is the only way majority will rule and that is at the state level.  If you are trying to say abortion will be on a national ballot, it never will be.  If abortion will become a national law Congress has to do make it so, that is their job.  By saying it will be on the ballot you are trying to push the narrative that a person must vote Democrat to get this done and that is disingenuous at best.  Take the win and let the states get through this issue and the people will have spoken.

The overturning of Roe v wade wasn't a "win" for anyone except for people who advocate for full abortion bans. Roe had us at a happy compromise of early abortions being allowed, but strict limits. Now it's a wild west with millions of women being stripped of their rights to reproductive healthcare and decision making, and women who have inviable fetuses having to travel to liberal states to get abortions because no doctor in Red states are willing to do even supposedly legal abortions due to the zealousness of Republican AGs and politicians who are chomping at the bit to prosecute a doctor or woman for getting an 'illegal' abortion. 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,958]

3 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Almost every state that has put the issue of abortion on the voter ballot after the overturning of roevwade has ended up with abortion bans being defeated by the people. That's not bias or speculation. That's fact. 

That is exactly what I said.  7 states voted to uphold abortion bans and I would guess other states will have the opportunity to do so.

5 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Direct ballot voting is the quickest way for people to voice their opinions on an important issue like abortion. 

And a state can accomplish this while the Federal Government can’t.

6 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

It gave power to the State legislative branches of government. Some States are better about having their state governments represent the will of their populace than others. 

So do you think the pro abortion advocates are going to give up?  Yeah, I don’t either.

8 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Now it's a wild west with millions of women being stripped of their rights to reproductive healthcare and decision making

They are not being stripped of anything; they will have to pay attention if they think they are pregnant and make a decision earlier than they may want.  Hey, that’s being responsible for your own body.

[jj3jordan 2,059]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

It's not just what I call it:

https://www.texasobserver.org/carter-heyward-white-christian-nationalism-book/

https://southseattleemerald.com/2022/07/15/opinion-diagnosis-christo-fascism/

https://brutalsouth.substack.com/p/a-field-guide-to-christofascism

https://philarchive.org/archive/FOEASH

https://www.publicchristian.com/christofascism-intends-to-dominate/

........ etc., etc., etc.

 

Not surprised you like the seattle opinion on Christians. The vast majority of Christians are nothing like the wackos the author inexplicably joined and later left. People who are “ministers” in their own minds are not doing God’s work. They are being misled by Satan who is more than happy to spread lies constantly. The world is full of angry people, convicted of their sin by the innate feelings that exist in every human soul. It can be resisted just as you and the author have done. Still nobody anywhere in government is attempting to establish any of the rules and directives in this article. Disingenuous of you to imply it. But that’s the tactic atheists and agnostics use to drive people away from Jesus. You are truly a coveted member of that team. You can upgrade any time. Just ask Your family how.

[homersapien 11,431]

1 hour ago, jj3jordan said:

Not surprised you like the seattle opinion on Christians. The vast majority of Christians are nothing like the wackos the author inexplicably joined and later left. People who are “ministers” in their own minds are not doing God’s work. They are being misled by Satan who is more than happy to spread lies constantly. The world is full of angry people, convicted of their sin by the innate feelings that exist in every human soul. It can be resisted just as you and the author have done. Still nobody anywhere in government is attempting to establish any of the rules and directives in this article. Disingenuous of you to imply it. But that’s the tactic atheists and agnostics use to drive people away from Jesus. You are truly a coveted member of that team. You can upgrade any time. Just ask Your family how.

You accused me of essentially making "Christo Fascism" up.

I googled the term and just started going down the list and arbitrarily stopping after I figured even you would understand. (I even left out wikipedia.)

This is a generally recognized threat.  Read a few of the listed articles if you want to know more about just how much of threat it is.

You are in denial about this. Or you support it.

And don't give me that "they are being mislead by Satan" excuse.  "They" includes you.

[jj3jordan 2,059]

14 hours ago, homersapien said:

You accused me of essentially making "Christo Fascism" up.

I googled the term and just started going down the list and arbitrarily stopping after I figured even you would understand. (I even left out wikipedia.)

This is a generally recognized threat.  Read a few of the listed articles if you want to know more about just how much of threat it is.

You are in denial about this. Or you support it.

And don't give me that "they are being mislead by Satan" excuse.  "They" includes you.

The part that you are making up is that we on the right identify with or resemble fascists. We don’t.  The title does not describe Christians, or conservatives. The term is a derogatory and was in fact “made up” by somebody like you, then floated out there for more Godless heathens to recycle with article after article of bizarre opinion ultimately without sane reasoning that somehow we are Nazis, or act like Nazis, or want to act like Nazis. I guess that makes me a true card carrying Christo-fascist Nazi denier.  The weirdo minister your senseless in Seattle friend joined up with is clearly being misled if you are talking about Christianity. If you can’t see that, go ask your family to explain to you. I’m not being misled by Satan into trusting Jesus, believing in God, or reading the Bible. Save all these good arguments you got for later on.

[homersapien 11,431]

1 hour ago, jj3jordan said:

The part that you are making up is that we on the right identify with or resemble fascists. We don’t.  The title does not describe Christians, or conservatives. The term is a derogatory and was in fact “made up” by somebody like you, then floated out there for more Godless heathens to recycle with article after article of bizarre opinion ultimately without sane reasoning that somehow we are Nazis, or act like Nazis, or want to act like Nazis. I guess that makes me a true card carrying Christo-fascist Nazi denier.  The weirdo minister your senseless in Seattle friend joined up with is clearly being misled if you are talking about Christianity. If you can’t see that, go ask your family to explain to you. I’m not being misled by Satan into trusting Jesus, believing in God, or reading the Bible. Save all these good arguments you got for later on.

I didn't say you were Nazis.  I said you were fascists.  Nazis were certainly fascists, but not all fascists are Nazis.

Regarding the actual existence of Christo Fascism / Christian Nationalists, If you don't recognize that you are either woefully ignorant or in denial.

The most recent examples are exemplified by two Republican/MAGA congresswomen"

“We need to be the party of nationalism. And I’m a Christian and I say it proudly. We should be Christian Nationalists.” - Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia

“The church is supposed to direct the government. The government is not supposed to direct the church. That is not how our founding fathers intended it and I’m tired of this separation of church and state junk.” - Representative Lauren Boebert of Colorado

We've even got some posters on this forum who apparently agree.

[jj3jordan 2,059]

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I didn't say you were Nazis.  I said you were fascists.  Nazis were certainly fascists, but not all fascists are Nazis.

Regarding the actual existence of Christo Fascism / Christian Nationalists, If you don't recognize that you are either woefully ignorant or in denial.

The most recent examples are exemplified by two Republican/MAGA congresswomen"

“We need to be the party of nationalism. And I’m a Christian and I say it proudly. We should be Christian Nationalists.” - Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia

“The church is supposed to direct the government. The government is not supposed to direct the church. That is not how our founding fathers intended it and I’m tired of this separation of church and state junk.” - Representative Lauren Boebert of Colorado

We've even got some posters on this forum who apparently agree.

You posted the article. The article went there. Don’t bail on them now. Or did you post yet another article snared by your google search without reading it. 

[homersapien 11,431]

And please drop the "Seattle fixation". 

Here's an article on the subject by a self-identified Christian. 

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/09/mixing-christianity-with-nationalism-is-a-recipe-for-fascism.html

Mixing Christianity With Nationalism Is a Recipe for Fascism

 

 

 

 

[homersapien 11,431]

10 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

You posted the article. The article went there. Don’t bail on them now. Or did you post yet another article snared by your google search without reading it. 

I was merely demonstrating to you that this wasn't just my idea.  It's been recognized as a threat for decades.

Are their some nuts who promote Christian Nationalism?  Absolutely.  (See Marjorie Taylor Greene for example.)

But that doesn't mean they aren't a real threat.  (See Michael Johnson, for example)

Edited December 20, 2023 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,431]

Want a scholarly article that explores the subject on a more global basis?

https://philarchive.org/archive/FOEASH

Edited December 20, 2023 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,431]

Here you go JJ, found you one authored by (sane) Christians:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/podcasts/quick-to-listen/christian-nationalism-capitol-riots-trump-podcast.html

Christian Nationalism Is Worse Than You Think

Millions of Americans believe in this political ideology. What church leaders need to know—and how they can help those under its influence.

[jj3jordan 2,059]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

And please drop the "Seattle fixation". 

Here's an article on the subject by a self-identified Christian. 

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/09/mixing-christianity-with-nationalism-is-a-recipe-for-fascism.html

Mixing Christianity With Nationalism Is a Recipe for Fascism

 

 

 

 

After the 1950s and neo pagan Trump I stopped reading. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by jj3jordan

[homersapien 11,431]

8 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

After the 1950s and neo pagan Trump Instopped reading. 

Yeah.

Ignorance is bliss, huh?

[jj3jordan 2,059]

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

Yeah.

Ignorance is bliss, huh?

Yes ignoring that guy is blissful.

[Aufan59 80]

On 12/18/2023 at 11:12 AM, homersapien said:

“We don’t believe those rights should be subjected to majority vote.”

I completely agree with this sentiment.   The right to my bodily autonomy should not be put up to vote.

Those who think this should be voted on are missing that rights shouldn’t be by choice of the majority.  I think they also would lose their mind if other laws were passed that required giving up bodily autonomy, like forced blood, organ or marrow donations.