Basketball recruiting;

[AU64 10,122]

After watching the string of upsets this week in 64 team basketball tourney I've come to the conclusion that recruiting big name kids to a basketball program is greatly over rated.

Schools like Yale, Hawaii, Stephen F. Austin, Middle Tenn and others who probably are fortunate to recruit even a couple 3 star guys came in an clipped some of the much better known ....and richer basketball programs.

Predicting success from basketball players is even worse than football except for a handful of obvious standouts. After you get past the top 10 or 15 ranked HS players, about any school seems able to put together a solid team as long as the team has some shooters and some junior and senior leaders.

[auburnphan 6,050]

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[AU64 10,122]

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Just thinking of all the excuses people give for us not being able to put a reasonably competitive team on the floor....compliance officer, AAU issues, you name it....and yet we see schools with virtually none of the advantages of a school like AU....and here they are in the tourney year after year with kids who probably never got a scholly offer from a Power 5 school.

Guess those schools have coaches who know how to get more out of less...? ..find ways to win with whatever talent they can attract rather than complain about their disadvantages.

[Mikey 16,580]

Most of those schools you mention are in the tournament because they are automatic qualifiers. Were it not for that, they wouldn't be there.

Every now and then, maybe two or three times a year, two or three of those schools manage to upset a bigger school. This happens when they have a senior-laden team and it's different underdogs winning every year. Overall, their winning percentage is bad.

Those teams would not be competitive in a power-5 conference even in the regular season.

You cannot seriously be pointing at the odd upset here and there and use that to say that Auburn's recruiting disadvantage shouldn't matter.

[AU64 10,122]

Most of those schools you mention are in the tournament because they are automatic qualifiers. Were it not for that, they wouldn't be there.

Every now and then, maybe two or three times a year, two or three of those schools manage to upset a bigger school. This happens when they have a senior-laden team and it's different underdogs winning every year. Overall, their winning percentage is bad.

Those teams would not be competitive in a power-5 conference even in the regular season.

You cannot seriously be pointing at the odd upset here and there and use that to say that Auburn's recruiting disadvantage shouldn't matter.

Actually I am.....primarily because I'm not sure what AU's recruiting disadvantages are....and I've never seen proof (name a player or two) that AU had an shot at who went to elsewhere and made a difference. JMO but I'm not sure that even matters. There are literally hundreds of good basketball players graduating HS each year and maybe a two or three come up on the radar as questionable so we can't or don't go after them.

We sound like the kid who goes to the bakery and wants a blue cupcake and when he finds they are out, he throws a tantrum and ignores the dozens of white, pink and red cupcakes....and demands to have a blue one.

So what about all the prospects who end up elsewhere? We have a great school, a nationally known coach, an outstanding arena and the players live like kings in a 5 Diamond residence. Nationwide how many schools can offer more? ....not that many I bet.

And as for senior laden team...basically I agree ...and we had a senior laden team this year .....but unfortunately did not have the benefit of that "senior laden" advantage because they had never played together until this year. Frankie Sullivan might have been the last 4 year player at AU and unfortunately, there have been few others ...before or after him....can't even think of a three year impact player.

I don't have a solution...and it's not my job to provide one...but anyone with eyes can see that whatever we are doing is not working....and I'm bothered that so many folks are willing offer such poor excuses.

[aujeff11 6,243]

There is a lot of parity in CBB. Mid major schools can be just as much a threat as Major basketball schools. Look at VCU or Wichita State. Michigan State lost to an inferior team yesterday via a good ole fashioned butt whooping. The inferior team, Middle Tennessee State, didn't squeak by or win by heroics, they just beat Michigan State the whole forty minutes, never relinquishing the lead, leading to a 9 point win. Belmont is another great mid major school that could beat you in a March moments notice.

[Mikey 16,580]

Most of those schools you mention are in the tournament because they are automatic qualifiers. Were it not for that, they wouldn't be there.

Every now and then, maybe two or three times a year, two or three of those schools manage to upset a bigger school. This happens when they have a senior-laden team and it's different underdogs winning every year. Overall, their winning percentage is bad.

Those teams would not be competitive in a power-5 conference even in the regular season.

You cannot seriously be pointing at the odd upset here and there and use that to say that Auburn's recruiting disadvantage shouldn't matter.

Actually I am.....primarily because I'm not sure what AU's recruiting disadvantages are....and I've never seen proof (name a player or two) that AU had an shot at who went to elsewhere and made a difference. JMO but I'm not sure that even matters. There are literally hundreds of good basketball players graduating HS each year and maybe a two or three come up on the radar as questionable so we can't or don't go after them.

We sound like the kid who goes to the bakery and wants a blue cupcake and when he finds they are out, he throws a tantrum and ignores the dozens of white, pink and red cupcakes....and demands to have a blue one.

So what about all the prospects who end up elsewhere? We have a great school, a nationally known coach, an outstanding arena and the players live like kings in a 5 Diamond residence. Nationwide how many schools can offer more? ....not that many I bet.

And as for senior laden team...basically I agree ...and we had a senior laden team this year .....but unfortunately did not have the benefit of that "senior laden" advantage because they had never played together until this year. Frankie Sullivan might have been the last 4 year player at AU and unfortunately, there have been few others ...before or after him....can't even think of a three year impact player.

I don't have a solution...and it's not my job to provide one...but anyone with eyes can see that whatever we are doing is not working....and I'm bothered that so many folks are willing offer such poor excuses.

Search these basketball threads for AAU and Auburn recruiting. Toss is the name Komara, just on a whim. Read entire threads instead of just a few posts. That will save those of us that have been posting the same thing over and over from having to repeat it all once again. At some point excuses are not excuses but reasons. If Pearl does leave Auburn before he'd really like to leave, the reasons he does so will be found in the threads posted here. Was it Lebo, or Barbee, or both that never signed a player from the state of Alabama? Think that was just an accident? There were reasons.

[ClaytonAU 4,606]

Reading the OP, just shows me that you have no actual knowledge of anything basketball related. Seems agenda driven to me along with everything else you post in the basketball forum.

[NoALtiger 3,859]

Most of those schools you mention are in the tournament because they are automatic qualifiers. Were it not for that, they wouldn't be there.

Every now and then, maybe two or three times a year, two or three of those schools manage to upset a bigger school. This happens when they have a senior-laden team and it's different underdogs winning every year. Overall, their winning percentage is bad.

Those teams would not be competitive in a power-5 conference even in the regular season.

You cannot seriously be pointing at the odd upset here and there and use that to say that Auburn's recruiting disadvantage shouldn't matter.

Bingo

[Jgarrett7 957]

Reading the OP, just shows me that you have no actual knowledge of anything basketball related. Seems agenda driven to me along with everything else you post in the basketball forum.

Nailed it!

[AU64 10,122]

Indeed....I did a search on Komara and if you leave AU out of it...seems he is ancient history....can't find that he's promoted any players in the past 5 years....and for the record, we've had a number of Alabama.

Do a little research and you will find Sullivan and Lang and a number of others though we've mostly recruited Georgia...where most people agree, some of the best basketball in the SE is played and where we recruit heavily for football. The Columbus and the Atlanta area have provided a number of top players.

Again ...Komara is ancient history...has done nothing of note that I can find for quite some time...and there is just nothing to show that blackballing him has hurt AU. A case could be made that having questionable NCAA issues and AU's blackballing has hurt him more than AU......at least until someone gives me a few names of kids he's been associated within the last 5 years who could have been AU prospects.

[cole256 17,054]

Didn't we play two of those teams well with this team? How many of THIS team are super 5 star recruits? How many were starting and getting major playing time for the first time? How many were transfers?

[Mikey 16,580]

Indeed....I did a search on Komara and if you leave AU out of it...seems he is ancient history....can't find that he's promoted any players in the past 5 years....and for the record, we've had a number of Alabama.

Do a little research and you will find Sullivan and Lang and a number of others though we've mostly recruited Georgia...where most people agree, some of the best basketball in the SE is played and where we recruit heavily for football. The Columbus and the Atlanta area have provided a number of top players.

Again ...Komara is ancient history...has done nothing of note that I can find for quite some time...and there is just nothing to show that blackballing him has hurt AU. A case could be made that having questionable NCAA issues and AU's blackballing has hurt him more than AU......at least until someone gives me a few names of kids he's been associated within the last 5 years who could have been AU prospects.

You didn't read ellitor's post that things with AU basketball and Compliance have been going on for well over a decade? What happened with AU, Komara and Ellis has never gone away.

[gravejd 3,270]

There are certainly multiple ways to field a successful bball team. You can recruit the best players in the country every year (Kentucky....North Caroline...etc), you can have a team with lots of experience and smart players and sprinkle in great recruits (Duke, Mich St., Louisville, etc), or you can have a team full of guys that have played together for several years and have a chip on their shoulders to beat the "big dogs" who said they weren't good enough (basically every mid major that plays well in the tourney). And i'm sure there are a lot of other ways to make it work as well.

Point is AU is not in a position to satisfy any of these conditions to have a successful team. We don't recruit elite players (though that is changing somewhat which is amazing, can't wait to see Heron and Wiley playing together with a seasoned Bryce and Spencer!!), our coach has only been around 2 years and inherited a roster COMPLETELY devoid of SEC Div 1 talent except for an exception or 2 so the experienced team is a no go.

I think your going to find the Pearl hating platform a little lonely for the time being. Everyone else seems to understand how we are where we are but you refuse too. Now if we struggle next year you might get some company and if we struggle the year after that I may even join you on the time to make a change train. But to stand around and say "why wasn't AU good this year?" is like standing in the rain and saying "why am I getting wet?" The answers to both questions are so painfully obvious.....

[AuburnNTexas 7,142]

There are a lot of solid basketball players in the US and if you can mix in a few solid foreign players a mid major school over time can field a solid team that can upset some teams that have more talented players. We have seen teams do it year in and year out. The mid major actually has an advantage that many more well known Div 1 teams don't have. That advantage is a fan base that is not so fanatical that they expect a coach to win as soon as he arrives on campus and that creates coach turnover. Having coaches that stay at a school for a long time and can develop relationships with local HS coaches and programs can be a boon in finding the kids that can develop into the type of team player that a system coach can use to develop a solid program.

Bruce has only been here two years and in his first year he was restricted in what he could do for a while because of the NCAA sanctions on him. The two best players on his team when he arrived were seniors who helped us get deep into the SEC last year. He brought in a Grad transfer who helped us but was a stopgap a couple of other transfers Canty and Bowers who also were stopgaps. Dunans another JC transfer who helped before he was hurt and will be back next year.

Forget his 1st year recruiting as with limits placed on him the fact that he was able to get some stopgaps was the best that you could expect. This year we saw 2 of his Freshmen recruits, Spencer and Bowers produce fairly well for freshmen who don't fit the KY, NC type elite player. New Williams was recovering from Knee issues so the jury is still out on him. We also got Danjel Purifoy who should be a player to be excited about next year. That class is step 1 in following the mid major model how good will these kids be in 3 years. We have three more freshmen coming next next year of those one is just under elite level one is the type of PG we need and one is a very solid PF. So next year we will have three sophomore, one RedShirt freshman and three freshman all of who will see significant playing time. We already have two stellar commits for the next year. Ignoring his first year because of restrictions and how late he cam to Auburn the 2017-2018 team will be the first team he will put on the floor that will have the talent he has both recruited and developed from the floor up.

2017-2018 is the first team that should give us an idea of both the quality of his recruiting to fit his system and the quality of his coaching but the real year to judge will 2018-2019 when he will have 4 years of his talent on the floor. I know that will be his 5th year but since his 1st year was basically finding stopgaps I don't think you should look at that recruiting class as representative of his recruiting prowess.

I feel that if the powers at Auburn can be patient enough to allow Bruce to develop talent like the mid Major programs plus throw in his ability to recruit an elite player every now and then that Auburn can become a consistent NCAA tourney team with a chance to periodically make the top 16 top 8 and even a top 4. Anytime you can get to that level you have a chance to go all the way. The key is will he stay and will we be patient enough to let him do it the right way.

[augolf1716 21,121]

Two great posts grave and Tex

[tigerbrotha12 2,362]

I can't imagine Pearl wanting to leave. He's 56 and has huge fan support. He'll be a legend at Auburn if he turns this program around.

[au701948 998]

Well this is one guy hoping we give him the time and support needed.

[steeleagle 2,945]

I agree. If we cant win with PEarl...geez. Let him take all the time he needs to get our program back in the NCAA. We see very very good recruiting so that is the backbone of any successful team.

If anyone watched our basketball team the last 2 years, then they know the first year Pearl came in without an ability to recruit until August, then he brought in transfers just to make us competitive. And we showed glimpses, and to win 3 SEC tournament games since 1985 was the high point.

The second year, we started off beating Kentucky and Alabama, then the injuries took over, and without a quality PG we suffered and it showed...

[au701948 998]

My feelings exactly steeleagle. It is hard to quantify, but without the unfortunate number of injuries and a player being declared ineligible by the NCAA it is possible that we have a below average season record. However, it would not have been anything as dismal as it turned out. BP is the first coach, since Sonnie Smith, that can recruit to Auburn. With a full bench of his recruits, I firmly believe that we become relevant again in the SEC. No doubt.