serious question about talent.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

You do have to admit, Loof, there are some coaches out there who are doing great things with a lot less who might be able to eclipse what Saban has done if they could keep the recruiting going and had some of the other advantages bama seems to have every year. Imagine how daunting it would be to face one of the great game strategists if he had a constant flow of 5-star players, never got called for holding, and usually got the good end of questionable calls.

That's one thing that makes me not be on the "I can't wait until Saban leaves" bandwagon. Who's to say, with the kind of money bama shells out, that they can't get a better on the field coach who can just reap the benefits of the behind the scenes machine that Saban built.

This bolded portion is an interesting take to me. I was under the assumption that whoever is HC at Bama after Saban will have a few top notch years just because of the culture and major depth that they have. And I assumed once that culture that's been instilled in the team by Saban fades because the new coach will have his own way of doing things there will be cracks starting to show within the program. Similar to how AU's successes have been recently in that the previous coach's culture was in place and the new guy mends his style with what is already in place there, then things start to fade once the predecessor's players start leaving the program. But you are saying they might upgrade in the on-field department but the monster that Saban has built and maintained will be able to keep chugging on -- which yes, would be very bad.

I hope Dabo is not their next choice. A lot of people on here hate him but rational people can tell he's doing a fantastic job at Clemson. He's recruiting extremely well, has an offense similar to ours (probably a better system because he actually utilizes the I-Formation and other power formations from under center in addition to what we do out of shotgun), and would have the Bama machine you speak of backing him.

Dabo is very much one of the coaches that I think is better than Saban on the field and, if he can plug into the machine, could be a bigger nightmare. I actually fear Dabo more than most as he has shown that his love for bama outweighs common sense, so I don't see him having an issue with picking up any not-so-legal/ethical tactics that bama is currently employing.

Fortunately most of the other great on field coaches out there haven't shown to be "win at all costs" kinds of guys. If we're lucky, the next coach at bama doesn't feed the beast.

[Barnacle 9,064]

Apologies. Just now realizing that you never said the "than saban" that I read into it. You mean they would look better than they do now, and not that they would look better than saban has at bama. Did I get that right? Again, my apologies.

You do have to admit, Loof, there are some coaches out there who are doing great things with a lot less who might be able to eclipse what Saban has done if they could keep the recruiting going and had some of the other advantages bama seems to have every year. Imagine how daunting it would be to face one of the great game strategists if he had a constant flow of 5-star players, never got called for holding, and usually got the good end of questionable calls.

That's one thing that makes me not be on the "I can't wait until Saban leaves" bandwagon. Who's to say, with the kind of money bama shells out, that they can't get a better on the field coach who can just reap the benefits of the behind the scenes machine that Saban built.

Eclipsing what he has done? I don't think there is a coach in the country who could do that. I mean, maybe someone could improve upon what he has built, but when someone says eclipse I think, "Win a national championship every year? Who could do that?"

I also don't think that Saban gets enough credit (at least around here) for what I think his key to success is. Everyone knows the difference that recruiting makes, and that he has the resources to accomplish his goals in that respect. However, what I don't think Saban gets enough credit for is his planning. And, not necessarily game planning. Saban came to Tuscaloosa with a blueprint. Top to bottom, from the administrative assistants, to the training staff, right on to the coaching staff and the players, he has a plan for how he wants things done. He has a set of principles - a way of doing things that he runs his program on. I don't know if this is accurate, but I can't recall Alabama ever having different "themes" each season. That’s a popular thing for coaches to do today. Saban’s theme seems to be the same every single year. Preparation. “Put yourself in a position to be successful.” People call it the process.

He might not be as good as some on game day, but there aren’t many who prepare like he does either. There’s a reason why his teams are always prepared too. Recruits help. Resources help. Game calling helps as well. But, you have to have a plan in place for how all of those things are going to work together in a way that best prepares you to be successful.

There are other coaches who I’m sure could come in and win big at Alabama. With the resources, and the recruits, you can do a lot. But, remember there were coaches before Saban who tried and failed, too. Without a blueprint to get those recruits and utilize those resources, others could come in and fail just as easily. Sure, with the cupboards full and Saban’s values still embedded within the fabric of returning players, you might continue the success for a couple of years. But, you better have a plan of your own to keep it going.

There are other coaches who can do it, a small few. I just don’t know of any that could do it any better than by a margin, certainly not by leaps and bounds.

[AuburnNTexas 7,174]

Apologies. Just now realizing that you never said the "than saban" that I read into it. You mean they would look better than they do now, and not that they would look better than saban has at bama. Did I get that right? Again, my apologies.

You do have to admit, Loof, there are some coaches out there who are doing great things with a lot less who might be able to eclipse what Saban has done if they could keep the recruiting going and had some of the other advantages bama seems to have every year. Imagine how daunting it would be to face one of the great game strategists if he had a constant flow of 5-star players, never got called for holding, and usually got the good end of questionable calls.

That's one thing that makes me not be on the "I can't wait until Saban leaves" bandwagon. Who's to say, with the kind of money bama shells out, that they can't get a better on the field coach who can just reap the benefits of the behind the scenes machine that Saban built.

Eclipsing what he has done? I don't think there is a coach in the country who could do that. I mean, maybe someone could improve upon what he has built, but when someone says eclipse, I think, "Win a national championship every year? Who could do that?"

I also don't think that Saban gets enough credit (at least around here) for what I think his key to success is. Everyone knows the difference that recruiting makes, and that he has the resources to accomplish his goals in that respect. However, what I don't think Saban gets enough credit for is his planning. And, not necessarily game planning. Saban came to Tuscaloosa with a blueprint. Top to bottom, from the administrative assistants, to the training staff, right on to the coaching staff and the players, he has a plan for how he wants things done. He has a set of principles - a way of doing things that he runs his program on. I don't know if this is accurate, but I can't recall Alabama ever having different "themes" each season. That’s a popular thing for coaches to do today. Saban’s theme seems to be the same every single year. Preparation. “Put yourself in a position to be successful.” People call it the process.

He might not be as good as some on game day, but there aren’t many who prepare like he does either. There’s a reason why his teams are always prepared too. Recruits help. Resources help. Game calling helps as well. But, you have to have a plan in place for how all of those things are going to work together in a way that best prepares you to be successful.

There are other coaches who I’m sure could come in and win big at Alabama. With the resources, and the recruits, you can do a lot. But, remember there were coaches before Saban who tried and failed, too. Without a blueprint to get those recruits and utilize those resources, others could come in and fail just as easily. Sure, with the cupboards full and Saban’s values still embedded within the fabric of returning players, you might continue the success for a couple of years. But, you better have a plan of your own to keep it going.

There are other coaches who can do it, a small few. I just don’t know of any that could do it any better than by a margin, certainly not by leaps and bounds.

I don't like Saban but I couldn't agree with you more.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Time to pull out the old "Barnacle is right" stamp.

*THUMP*

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Eclipsing what he has done? I don't think there is a coach in the country who could do that. I mean, maybe someone could improve upon what he has built, but when someone says eclipse I think, "Win a national championship every year? Who could do that?"

I also don't think that Saban gets enough credit (at least around here) for what I think his key to success is. Everyone knows the difference that recruiting makes, and that he has the resources to accomplish his goals in that respect. However, what I don't think Saban gets enough credit for is his planning. And, not necessarily game planning. Saban came to Tuscaloosa with a blueprint. Top to bottom, from the administrative assistants, to the training staff, right on to the coaching staff and the players, he has a plan for how he wants things done. He has a set of principles - a way of doing things that he runs his program on. I don't know if this is accurate, but I can't recall Alabama ever having different "themes" each season. That’s a popular thing for coaches to do today. Saban’s theme seems to be the same every single year. Preparation. “Put yourself in a position to be successful.” People call it the process.

He might not be as good as some on game day, but there aren’t many who prepare like he does either. There’s a reason why his teams are always prepared too. Recruits help. Resources help. Game calling helps as well. But, you have to have a plan in place for how all of those things are going to work together in a way that best prepares you to be successful.

There are other coaches who I’m sure could come in and win big at Alabama. With the resources, and the recruits, you can do a lot. But, remember there were coaches before Saban who tried and failed, too. Without a blueprint to get those recruits and utilize those resources, others could come in and fail just as easily. Sure, with the cupboards full and Saban’s values still embedded within the fabric of returning players, you might continue the success for a couple of years. But, you better have a plan of your own to keep it going.

There are other coaches who can do it, a small few. I just don’t know of any that could do it any better than by a margin, certainly not by leaps and bounds.

Everything you say is correct, and I don't know of a single coach who could do what he did from the ground up. The point I'm making is what he put into place can be continued when he leaves. It's not like when he walks out the door, every single person connected to the program goes with him. Once a process is in place, that process can be documented, continued, and improved upon. And yes, as messed up as it is, if someone were to come into his process, and improve on the things that he's not great at, they could win every year.

Of course, I'm one of those people that believes that, if the NCAA actually would dig into his process, they would find a lot of things that give him an unfair upper hand... and not all of those are his doing. I believe that's why he was not able to have the same level of success at LSU... because they didn't have the "support" from boosters that bama has or any of the other advantages that have been noted frequently on this site.

Let's face it, when was the last time there was a team this dominant that didn't get hammered by the NCAA?

[keesler 5,928]

I'll give you "might", but I find it highly unlikely. There are a handful of other programs with as much clout, money and motivation as bama, and nobody has come close (in the scholarship limit era) to the level of success saban has sustained. Nowhere even remotely close.

I'm not trying to say that saban is a Jedi on fall Saturdays. I'm only saying that he's better than the "mediocre" tag that some here would ascribe to him. You simply don't win like that without being very good in every aspect.

Heck, even when he loses, it's just barely.

Good post.

There's are few things about that program from coaching to recruiting to facilities to the trainers & individual players that can be considered "mediocre" right now.

Every program has a weakness and UAT has their's as well. But one thing that I've noticed is that week after week they don't wilt under pressure, and they don't falter after a loss. They are built to beat the opponent up front, at the point of attack - the line of scrimmage. Their schemes and X's & O's are simplistic for the most part and nothing flashy or special outside of an occasional wrinkle here and there.

The OleMiss game last year saw 5 turnovers, and several piss poor special teams blunders that cost them the game. They regrouped, focused on the deficiencies, won the conference and damned if special teams didn't play a major role in winning the NC.

[Barnacle 9,064]

Eclipsing what he has done? I don't think there is a coach in the country who could do that. I mean, maybe someone could improve upon what he has built, but when someone says eclipse I think, "Win a national championship every year? Who could do that?"

I also don't think that Saban gets enough credit (at least around here) for what I think his key to success is. Everyone knows the difference that recruiting makes, and that he has the resources to accomplish his goals in that respect. However, what I don't think Saban gets enough credit for is his planning. And, not necessarily game planning. Saban came to Tuscaloosa with a blueprint. Top to bottom, from the administrative assistants, to the training staff, right on to the coaching staff and the players, he has a plan for how he wants things done. He has a set of principles - a way of doing things that he runs his program on. I don't know if this is accurate, but I can't recall Alabama ever having different "themes" each season. That’s a popular thing for coaches to do today. Saban’s theme seems to be the same every single year. Preparation. “Put yourself in a position to be successful.” People call it the process.

He might not be as good as some on game day, but there aren’t many who prepare like he does either. There’s a reason why his teams are always prepared too. Recruits help. Resources help. Game calling helps as well. But, you have to have a plan in place for how all of those things are going to work together in a way that best prepares you to be successful.

There are other coaches who I’m sure could come in and win big at Alabama. With the resources, and the recruits, you can do a lot. But, remember there were coaches before Saban who tried and failed, too. Without a blueprint to get those recruits and utilize those resources, others could come in and fail just as easily. Sure, with the cupboards full and Saban’s values still embedded within the fabric of returning players, you might continue the success for a couple of years. But, you better have a plan of your own to keep it going.

There are other coaches who can do it, a small few. I just don’t know of any that could do it any better than by a margin, certainly not by leaps and bounds.

Everything you say is correct, and I don't know of a single coach who could do what he did from the ground up. The point I'm making is what he put into place can be continued when he leaves. It's not like when he walks out the door, every single person connected to the program goes with him. Once a process is in place, that process can be documented, continued, and improved upon. And yes, as messed up as it is, if someone were to come into his process, and improve on the things that he's not great at, they could win every year.

Of course, I'm one of those people that believes that, if the NCAA actually would dig into his process, they would find a lot of things that give him an unfair upper hand... and not all of those are his doing. I believe that's why he was not able to have the same level of success at LSU... because they didn't have the "support" from boosters that bama has or any of the other advantages that have been noted frequently on this site.

Let's face it, when was the last time there was a team this dominant that didn't get hammered by the NCAA?

I’ll just go ahead and say that I don’t actually believe that in today’s college football landscape a program can win every single year. Not because there is too much parity, but because there are enough quality players coming out of high school today to sustain a few usual suspects. And, because of the nature of the game, things like injuries make it difficult to achieve absolute consistency. In short, I think what Saban has done at Alabama is about as good as it gets, especially when you consider how close they were in 2008, 2010, 2013 and 2014.

If someone could come in and replicate everything that he is already doing outside of Saturday afternoons, and then in addition to those things do a better job calling the game, you might see something better than Saban 2008--. But, because of all the variables involved in the modern game, including what guys like Urban Meyer and Jim Harbaugh are doing at their respective schools, it’s hard for me to see anyone doing better than 4 of 7.

In theory, someone could. The problem is that no one will be able to do what I just described, and they won’t be able to because they aren’t Nick Saban. If we are talking about keeping the machine going, we need to acknowledge that both Saban and his system are totally dependent on each other. Saban can’t continue at this pace without the players, resources, support, autonomy, people, coaches and the processes therein (the “machine”). Neither can the machine operate as it has without Nick Saban. They just aren’t viable without each other, at least not to the extent that the results could be replicated.

Realistically, if you are an Alabama fan, I think what you would hope is that a coach retain the aspects of the program that fit within their philosophy and then utilize the residual benefits (such as brand, players, and resources) to enhance their own processes. Yet, even in that scenario I’m not sure how much better perfected the operation of the football program might be. Take Dabo as an example. Even if he takes advantage of everything a post Saban Alabama head football coach would have at his disposal, can he replicate Saban’s game planning? His preparation? His leadership? His work ethic? Every other unquantifiable aspect of Nick Saban that in some way has added to his success? Of course not. By the same token, Dabo has strengths that Nick Saban can’t replicate, but then we are just trading off: strengths for weaknesses and weaknesses for strengths. Maybe there is some net benefit, but maybe there’s a loss too. Either way, I still just don’t see anyone else having that much more success.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

In theory, someone could. The problem is that no one will be able to do what I just described, and they won’t be able to because they aren’t Nick Saban. If we are talking about keeping the machine going, we need to acknowledge that both Saban and his system are totally dependent on each other. Saban can’t continue at this pace without the players, resources, support, autonomy, people, coaches and the processes therein (the “machine”). Neither can the machine operate as it has without Nick Saban. They just aren’t viable without each other, at least not to the extent that the results could be replicated.

This is where I totally disagree with you. While he deserves all the credit in the world for building what he built, no one is irreplaceable. The only human trait that a person brings to the table that is truly hard to replace is creativity, because it's something that can't be learned. That's exactly how companies manage to survive and thrive when their leaders leave, because the structure is in place and the system can be learned.

I firmly believe Saban's strengths let him build a formidable machine, but his strengths are all in areas that can be replicated. Others can game plan as well or better than he can... we've all seen it. Others can prepare the team exactly like he does, because he's spent the past 8 years creating a blueprint for how to do it that is ingrained in the machine. Others can certainly surpass his leadership, because anyone who knows anything about how to really lead people knows that he's awful at it. He's a dictator and a pretty callus one at that, not a leader, and putting a true leader in there could only improve things. I can't think of one element that he has brought to the equation that is not quantifiable and able to be replicated, now that the structure is in place, except maybe one thing... he might be the best defensive coordinator out there. We'll see now that Kirby has a spotlight of his own.

[Barnacle 9,064]

In theory, someone could. The problem is that no one will be able to do what I just described, and they won’t be able to because they aren’t Nick Saban. If we are talking about keeping the machine going, we need to acknowledge that both Saban and his system are totally dependent on each other. Saban can’t continue at this pace without the players, resources, support, autonomy, people, coaches and the processes therein (the “machine”). Neither can the machine operate as it has without Nick Saban. They just aren’t viable without each other, at least not to the extent that the results could be replicated.

This is where I totally disagree with you. While he deserves all the credit in the world for building what he built, no one is irreplaceable. The only human trait that a person brings to the table that is truly hard to replace is creativity, because it's something that can't be learned. That's exactly how companies manage to survive and thrive when their leaders leave, because the structure is in place and the system can be learned.

I firmly believe Saban's strengths let him build a formidable machine, but his strengths are all in areas that can be replicated. Others can game plan as well or better than he can... we've all seen it. Others can prepare the team exactly like he does, because he's spent the past 8 years creating a blueprint for how to do it that is ingrained in the machine. Others can certainly surpass his leadership, because anyone who knows anything about how to really lead people knows that he's awful at it. He's a dictator and a pretty callus one at that, not a leader, and putting a true leader in there could only improve things. I can't think of one element that he has brought to the equation that is not quantifiable and able to be replicated, now that the structure is in place, except maybe one thing... he might be the best defensive coordinator out there. We'll see now that Kirby has a spotlight of his own.

If you are talking about the person I described in my last paragraph, I agree that someone could continue Saban's success based in part upon the principles and processes already in place. However, I don't think that someone can perfectly replicate all the positive aspects of the program Saban has built, negate and improve upon the less desirable aspects of the program (like in game coaching), while surreptitiously disguising their own shortcomings.

There will always be trade off. Yes, someone can come in and replicate some of the things that Saban does, and yes someone can come in and improve upon some things that he doesn't do well. However, no one is going to come in and do everything that Saban does well, and everything he doesn't do well. Whoever comes in will have their own weaknesses. Considering the level of consistency and achievement that Saban has created, I just don't see enough room for significant improvement, regardless of who comes in after him.

I also disagree about Saban and leadership. First, all college football coaches are dictators or autocrats, at least from the players side of things. Second, to me good leadership means the ability to get the most out of the people around you. I would argue that he does that considerably well. He wins championships and his players go to the NFL. People may not enjoy him, but being likeable isn't a characteristic of leadership as far as I'm concerned.

[gr82b4au 5,568]

For the first time since the Tuberville years we actually have the talent on defense. Other than a select few pieces in 2010, including a dominant DT, we could not line up with the other elite SEC teams with our defensive talent and expect to stop them. This is why we had to outscore everyone. Over the last 3 years we have brought in more top defensive talent than I can remember. We have recruited OL well, and we continue to recruit that position well. The WRs talent this past class is the best I can remember in one class - ever. Now they are green but they are good/great. The ONLY position that we have missed on (which has been noted over and over) is QB. We are a good QB away from being dominant. But with an average/below average QB, we struggle.

So yes - I would say other than QB we stack up better now with most elite teams than we have in a long, long time.

[johnnyAU 3,650]

However, it must be nice when you are working with 2-3 deep at just about every position that came into college higher rated than just about every single opponent you face. You can weather things like injuries, attrition, off the field issues, etc....an awful lot easier when you have that kind of luxury.

As I stated earlier, he is the best recruiter/acquirer of talent that college has ever seen. The run they have been will probably never be equalled...but it is directly correlative to the consistency and volume of elite recruits they have been stockpiling for nigh a decade. Saban is also a tremendous CEO/organizer of his staff. He is not really any more of a game day coach/developer of talent than many other really good coaches, but what he does well, there aren't any better out there.

[cole256 17,084]

Just because he's the enemy doesn't mean he's not good.....he's not a leader??? Really?

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just because he's the enemy doesn't mean he's not good.....he's not a leader??? Really?

Yea, really. He's an manager... even a dictator.

A leader has people following them because they respect them, not because they are scared of them. When a leader faces defeat, he steps up and takes the hit for it, he doesn't throw his players under the bus. And when a leader wins, it's all about his team and not about him. Saban has shown repeatedly, often on TV, that he is none of those things.

[cole256 17,084]

No way you can say nobody respects this man. You just don't like him and like most the guys you like you make them seem incredible and the guys you don't, well they are evil and they suck. Whay trips me out is you seem to always build up or attack someone personally and you don't know any of these people on that level to even really know the things you say

[AU-24 3,108]

Just because he's the enemy doesn't mean he's not good.....he's not a leader??? Really?

Yea, really. He's an manager... even a dictator.

A leader has people following them because they respect them, not because they are scared of them. When a leader faces defeat, he steps up and takes the hit for it, he doesn't throw his players under the bus. And when a leader wins, it's all about his team and not about him. Saban has shown repeatedly, often on TV, that he is none of those things.

Many do not and will never be in a position that requires them to understand leadership.

What you're saying about leadership makes allot of sense, but there are many that simply never get the life experiences to understand.

[cole256 17,084]

Absolutely, usually the guys that speak in cliches about it can't understand it all....

[DAG 34,017]

Just because he's the enemy doesn't mean he's not good.....he's not a leader??? Really?

Yea, really. He's an manager... even a dictator.

A leader has people following them because they respect them, not because they are scared of them. When a leader faces defeat, he steps up and takes the hit for it, he doesn't throw his players under the bus. And when a leader wins, it's all about his team and not about him. Saban has shown repeatedly, often on TV, that he is none of those things.

Leaders come in many different facet in forms. I maintain that Saban has to be a leader because throughout his tenure at Bama, he has successfully used his blue print to establish a winning regiment, including with several coordinators. He also has shown that he is flexible, by tweaking his offensive philosophy and allowing his OC to shine (Mind you many on here said this relationship would not work), while also maintaining complete control of the ship. Sounds like a leader to me. None of this could've been achieved for such a long tenure if he wasn't respected.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just because he's the enemy doesn't mean he's not good.....he's not a leader??? Really?

Yea, really. He's an manager... even a dictator.

A leader has people following them because they respect them, not because they are scared of them. When a leader faces defeat, he steps up and takes the hit for it, he doesn't throw his players under the bus. And when a leader wins, it's all about his team and not about him. Saban has shown repeatedly, often on TV, that he is none of those things.

Leaders come in many different facet in forms. I maintain that Saban has to be a leader because throughout his tenure at Bama, he has successfully used his blue print to establish a winning regiment, including with several coordinators. He also has shown that he is flexible, by tweaking his offensive philosophy and allowing his OC to shine (Mind you many on here said this relationship would not work), while also maintaining complete control of the ship. Sounds like a leader to me. None of this could've been achieved for such a long tenure if he wasn't respected.

That's an innovator and a manager. Being a leader is all about creating an environment where people want to follow you, because of you. There are a lot of people who are amazing innovators and create success everywhere they go, but if you ask people who have been under their umbrella, in all honesty, they will tell you that they if that person was on fire, they wouldn't even pee on them to help put it out (see Steve Jobs and Elon Musk as examples). Sadly, many of the most successful men are horrible people and no one would work for them if they weren't associated with a highly successful venture or the promise of big personal reward.

For a great example of Saban's failure as a leader, look at his time in the NFL. Everyone hated him, no one wanted to work with him, and he lost his program because, unlike college kids, he had nothing to offer pro players/staff.

[Barnacle 9,064]

Are fear and respect mutually exclusive? People in Saban's program have a tremendous amount of respect for him.

[cole256 17,084]

Is Gus a leader? There isn't a coach at ANY sport that's loved by everybody. But I disagree the premise is a leader is somebody people want to follow just because of you

[johnnyAU 3,650]

Just because he's the enemy doesn't mean he's not good.....he's not a leader??? Really?

Yea, really. He's an manager... even a dictator.

A leader has people following them because they respect them, not because they are scared of them. When a leader faces defeat, he steps up and takes the hit for it, he doesn't throw his players under the bus. And when a leader wins, it's all about his team and not about him. Saban has shown repeatedly, often on TV, that he is none of those things.

Leaders come in many different facet in forms. I maintain that Saban has to be a leader because throughout his tenure at Bama, he has successfully used his blue print to establish a winning regiment, including with several coordinators. He also has shown that he is flexible, by tweaking his offensive philosophy and allowing his OC to shine (Mind you many on here said this relationship would not work), while also maintaining complete control of the ship. Sounds like a leader to me. None of this could've been achieved for such a long tenure if he wasn't respected.

That's an innovator and a manager. Being a leader is all about creating an environment where people want to follow you, because of you. There are a lot of people who are amazing innovators and create success everywhere they go, but if you ask people who have been under their umbrella, in all honesty, they will tell you that they if that person was on fire, they wouldn't even pee on them to help put it out (see Steve Jobs and Elon Musk as examples). Sadly, many of the most successful men are horrible people and no one would work for them if they weren't associated with a highly successful venture or the promise of big personal reward.

For a great example of Saban's failure as a leader, look at his time in the NFL. Everyone hated him, no one wanted to work with him, and he lost his program because, unlike college kids, he had nothing to offer pro players/staff.

Well said

[johnnyAU 3,650]

Is Gus a leader? There isn't a coach at ANY sport that's loved by everybody. But I disagree the premise is a leader is somebody people want to follow just because of you

No, Gus is also an innovator. Whether he becomes a good manager or leader, has yet to be seen.

[McLoofus 35,182]

They're all leaders. Good lord. Some are better at it than others and they have wildly different styles but they're all leaders. Somebody who is in charge of a group of people and chooses how they set upon accomplishing a goal is a leader. The actual definition of the word is broader than that.

Look at the head coaches in the SEC, for crying out loud. 3 out of 13 not named Saban used to work for him. 2 of them at big 6 schools. That's leadership.

[Barnacle 9,064]

They're all leaders. Good lord.

[DAG 34,017]

Just because he's the enemy doesn't mean he's not good.....he's not a leader??? Really?

Yea, really. He's an manager... even a dictator.

A leader has people following them because they respect them, not because they are scared of them. When a leader faces defeat, he steps up and takes the hit for it, he doesn't throw his players under the bus. And when a leader wins, it's all about his team and not about him. Saban has shown repeatedly, often on TV, that he is none of those things.

Leaders come in many different facet in forms. I maintain that Saban has to be a leader because throughout his tenure at Bama, he has successfully used his blue print to establish a winning regiment, including with several coordinators. He also has shown that he is flexible, by tweaking his offensive philosophy and allowing his OC to shine (Mind you many on here said this relationship would not work), while also maintaining complete control of the ship. Sounds like a leader to me. None of this could've been achieved for such a long tenure if he wasn't respected.

That's an innovator and a manager. Being a leader is all about creating an environment where people want to follow you, because of you. There are a lot of people who are amazing innovators and create success everywhere they go, but if you ask people who have been under their umbrella, in all honesty, they will tell you that they if that person was on fire, they wouldn't even pee on them to help put it out (see Steve Jobs and Elon Musk as examples). Sadly, many of the most successful men are horrible people and no one would work for them if they weren't associated with a highly successful venture or the promise of big personal reward.

For a great example of Saban's failure as a leader, look at his time in the NFL. Everyone hated him, no one wanted to work with him, and he lost his program because, unlike college kids, he had nothing to offer pro players/staff.

So, he failed in the NFL. Does that make him any less of a leader at the college level? Does that make him any less of a leader in general? You know how many times great leaders have failed at something, only to use that as motivation, to grow? My goodness, do you know part of being a leader is being innovative and managing people? That is a HUUUUUGE part of leadership.