No, Removing Confederate Monuments Does Not "Erase History"

[AUDub 11,147]

1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said:

For some reason I do not see a statue of Confederate general in the same light as Hitler.... I do understand a few people not wanting certain statues.I would raise hell if someone erected a statue of Bahr Bryant on their Private property adjacent to the Auburn campus. 

Try to think of it from an individual descended from the slaves POV. Would the veneration of a figure (or figures, as it is) that fought a war to keep your ancestors subjugated bother you?

[quietfan 233]

2 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

I would raise hell if someone erected a statue of Bahr Bryant on their Private property adjacent to the Auburn campus. 

That is certainly your right.  

Personally, I respect anyone's right to erect monuments of their desire on their private property.  I might not like it, and I acknowledge others' rights not to like it, but I'd recognize it as protected freedom of speech.  I do have complaints about monuments to traitors and a treasonous armed rebellion against the nation I love standing on public property however.  The Constitution clearly defines levying war against the United States as treason.

[SaltyTiger 7,795]

1 hour ago, Bigbens42 said:

Try to think of it from an individual descended from the slaves POV. Would the veneration of a figure (or figures, as it is) that fought a war to keep your ancestors subjugated bother you?

I get that Bb. Just saying I do not see the guys in the same light as Hitler. Do you? Obviously Homer does.

[SaltyTiger 7,795]

11 minutes ago, quietfan said:

That is certainly your right.  

Personally, I respect anyone's right to erect monuments of their desire on their private property.  I might not like it, and I acknowledge others' rights not to like it, but I'd recognize it as protected freedom of speech.  I do have complaints about monuments to traitors and a treasonous armed rebellion against the nation I love standing on public property however.  The Constitution clearly defines levying war against the United States as treason.

Hopefully QF you did not attend Auburn and accept a degree signed by a governor from a state with such a history.

[AUDub 11,147]

31 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

I get that Bb. Just saying I do not see the guys in the same light as Hitler. Do you? Obviously Homer does.

I do not look kindly upon them. They fought for a terrible cause in a war they couldn't win. It would be laughable and pathetic were it not for the fact that it cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans, while hundreds of thousands more were maimed for life.

[quietfan 233]

53 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Hopefully QF you did not attend Auburn and accept a degree signed by a governor from a state with such a history.

The State had rejoined the Union and been forgiven of its treason a century earlier by the time I graduated from Auburn in 1976.

[homersapien 11,370]

4 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

For some reason I do not see a statue of Confederate general in the same light as Hitler.... I do understand a few people not wanting certain statues.I would raise hell if someone erected a statue of Bahr Bryant on their Private property adjacent to the Auburn campus. 

"For some reason"?

[homersapien 11,370]

2 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

I get that Bb. Just saying I do not see the guys in the same light as Hitler. Do you? Obviously Homer does.

That's not exactly what I said though, is it?

Nor is it what I meant.

"Obviously" my ass. 

 

[Mims44 1,869]

4 hours ago, Bigbens42 said:

Try to think of it from an individual descended from the slaves POV. Would the veneration of a figure (or figures, as it is) that fought a war to keep your ancestors subjugated bother you?

Are all scottish/irish people bothered by the statues/monuments erected to English leaders that subjugated them?

 

Trick question... I know there are many, but they are still all told to go eff themselves

[Mims44 1,869]

9 hours ago, homersapien said:

Not to mention that - as a minority - Blacks have never had much power to do anything about it, just endure the insult. Back in the day, which was my point

Fortunately, there are now enough thoughtful white people who (Again, tongue in cheek... make sure and thank whitey cause that's the only reason we ever get anything done in USA) - joined with them - can finally do what's right.

 

6 hours ago, homersapien said:

Yep, missed the point.  Completely.

 

Care to tell me what the point was then?

You are just another scared old white dude, except instead of railing against change you are trying to embrace and include yourself in it out of fear.

 

[homersapien 11,370]

6 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

Are all scottish/irish people bothered by the statues/monuments erected to English leaders that subjugated them?

 

Trick question... I know there are many, but they are still all told to go eff themselves

Are you suggesting we should tell black people to go eff themselves?

[homersapien 11,370]

3 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

 

You are just another scared old white dude, except instead of railing against change you are trying to embrace and include yourself in it out of fear.

 

That makes no sense. Are you drunk?

 

[Mims44 1,869]

50 minutes ago, homersapien said:

That makes no sense. Are you drunk?

 

A+ response raptor, this sites #1 poster.

[Mims44 1,869]

54 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Are you suggesting we should tell black people to go eff themselves?

You obviously did not read the quote and response... are you high?

[japantiger 4,051]

2 hours ago, Mims44 said:

Are all scottish/irish people bothered by the statues/monuments erected to English leaders that subjugated them?

 

Trick question... I know there are many, but they are still all told to go eff themselves

Nice point...the UK actually embraces their heritage...there are Scottish memorials to past Scottish leaders that warred against the English (Wallace monument tower near Sterling, Robert the Bruce statue at Bannockburn, etc.); and vice versa.  

[AUDub 11,147]

5 hours ago, japantiger said:

Nice point...the UK actually embraces their heritage...there are Scottish memorials to past Scottish leaders that warred against the English (Wallace monument tower near Sterling, Robert the Bruce statue at Bannockburn, etc.); and vice versa. 

Color me shocked there are statues of Scottish heroes in Scotland. 

[homersapien 11,370]

10 hours ago, Mims44 said:

 

Care to tell me what the point was then?

 

My point is, that without a large political consensus - which by definition has to include whites - nothing would happen regarding the acknowlegement of slavery and exactly why the South went to war.

As someone who grew up in Alabama in the early 60's, I find what is finally happening in New Orleans to be very encouraging. Perhaps we as a society are making progress toward racial conciliation.  

At least that was my feeling until I saw the following article:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/alabama/articles/2017-03-09/alabama-senate-gridlocked-over-confederate-monuments-bill

Seems like the state of Alabama remains incorrigible when it comes to race.

[Mims44 1,869]

7 hours ago, japantiger said:

Nice point...the UK actually embraces their heritage...there are Scottish memorials to past Scottish leaders that warred against the English (Wallace monument tower near Sterling, Robert the Bruce statue at Bannockburn, etc.); and vice versa.  

Well at first BigBen said "Try to think of it from an individual descended from the slaves POV."

 

My point was simply that they could think of their own heritage in such a way. Since I'm guessing a lot of posters here are mainly Scottish, Irish, or native. Three peoples that have been enslaved, tortured, and hated by a ruling English class for hundreds of years... That they should be able to look at it from their own POV.

 

For example for any Irish posters; How does it feel knowing your ancestry is depicted by  sports team as drunken angry midgets? Furthermore, how does it feel knowing that Irish groups have protested the offensive imagery many times and are basically told to suck it up?

[quietfan 233]

9 hours ago, japantiger said:

Nice point...the UK actually embraces their heritage...there are Scottish memorials to past Scottish leaders that warred against the English (Wallace monument tower near Sterling, Robert the Bruce statue at Bannockburn, etc.); and vice versa.  

Scotland was originally independent of England and essentially conquered by England.  For Scotland to commemorate heroes of their fight against conquest is far different than commemorating traitors against one's own country.  The South was not originally forced into the Union by conquest, and the Civil War was not a fight for pre-existing independence.  The Confederacy was a revolt against one's own country.  

Nor does a monument to William Wallace, Robert the Bruce, etc. offend a large percentage of Scotland's population who feel those men were fighting to defend or preserve a terrible social injustice done to many of Scotland's own people.

[homersapien 11,370]

I don't see much similarity between this part of British history and the sort of chattel slavery that characterized the South.

And I still don't get your point associated with the comparison.

[alexava 6,973]

Do Native Americans want Andrew Jackson monuments destroyed? Almost every person in military or political history has s*** on a different sect, race or ethnicity of people. At some point we have to live and let die. 

[homersapien 11,370]

12 hours ago, Mims44 said:

You obviously did not read the quote and response... are you high?

You said:

"Are all scottish/irish people bothered by the statues/monuments erected to English leaders that subjugated them?

Trick question... I know there are many, but they are still all told to go eff themselves "

So, the question becomes, do you think that's an appropriate reaction to blacks in our country, who resent memorials to the Confederacy?

Granted, the question is a rhetorical "gambit", but the answer is not obvious from the words, which is all I have to work with.  

 

[homersapien 11,370]

9 minutes ago, alexava said:

Do Native Americans want Andrew Jackson monuments destroyed? Almost every person in military or political history has s*** on a different sect, race or ethnicity of people. At some point we have to live and let die. 

Probably so if the statues were in NC or Oklahoma, where most of them live.  

[AUDub 11,147]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

And I still don't get your point associated with the comparison.

It's a red herring, one often seen among apologists for white supremacy and the lost cause mythos. 

[japantiger 4,051]

6 hours ago, Mims44 said:

Well at first BigBen said "Try to think of it from an individual descended from the slaves POV."

 

My point was simply that they could think of their own heritage in such a way. Since I'm guessing a lot of posters here are mainly Scottish, Irish, or native. Three peoples that have been enslaved, tortured, and hated by a ruling English class for hundreds of years... That they should be able to look at it from their own POV.

 

For example for any Irish posters; How does it feel knowing your ancestry is depicted by  sports team as drunken angry midgets? Furthermore, how does it feel knowing that Irish groups have protested the offensive imagery many times and are basically told to suck it up?

Have you ever been to Dublin on St Patties day?  I can assure you that the Irish are not in the least concerned about their depiction....They care about as much as I do with depictions of Southerners as all being inbred hillbilly's like Homey....