24/7: Holland coming back

[doc4aday 1,887]

We could very well only lose 1 or 2 players to the draft when it is said and done. I like KP coming back and think this is most definitely in his interest to have a healthy and productive senior season. He would likely be an undrafted free agent at this point. A nice senior season would put him in the driver's seat as far as $$$$$$$ for him and his family. I trust that he and the rest potential early departing players will be given accurate and non biased information concerning their draft situation.

We all want all of them to come back, but a true Auburn man or lady wants the absolute best for each one regardless what choice they make.  I think another year is needed for JS to hone his passing skills and decision making under pressure. He has the potential to be a lower 1st and high 2nd round pick if he can make this progress in 2018. All of these young men have a good chance one day to play on Sundays and I hope they do it with being chosen as high in the draft as possible.

[mustache eagle 2,402]

Gus has shown that he will pound our RB1 into the ground.  If Kerryon wants to play in the nfl and if he is anywhere in the top half of the draft then he should go.  

History shows Gus will pulverize KJ next year as a senior.  Kerryon can end this year with 1500 yards and as a solid receiver and decent blocker.  Get a 3 year contract, put it in your savings account and then when your nfl career is over in 3 years, finish your last year of college, on Auburn’s nickel, and get your degree.

my biggest beef with cgm this year ... play RB3-5 more (plus qb2) thus less touches by KJ and maybe he has less wear and tear and maybe he comes back.

[gr82be 14,423]

Gus has shown to go with one back for the majority of the game but I don't think it bothers the back which is the one getting the most carries at all. Any skill position player worth his salt wants the ball as much as he can get it. I remember reading that KJ didn't want to come out of the games. It's hard for a young athlete to think about it in terms of longetivity. Most will think they're invincible. On the other hand the guys not getting the playing time are not going to be satisfied for long. 

[DAG 33,982]

8 minutes ago, gr82be said:

Gus has shown to go with one back for the majority of the game but I don't think it bothers the back which is the one getting the most carries at all. Any skill position player worth his salt wants the ball as much as he can get it. I remember reading that KJ didn't want to come out of the games. It's hard for a young athlete to think about it in terms of longetivity. Most will think they're invincible. On the other hand the guys not getting the playing time are not going to be satisfied for long. 

He said this post game and actually reflected on if he should’ve told the coaches to let Kam Martin come in. I always lean to coaches in having that discretion . Kids are not going to come out for obvious reasons .

[Gowebb11 9,320]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

Dude , if you have talent you will get drafted . Myles Jack proved that. You are arguing points that I am not even disagreeing on you with . My point is I don’t want to see him I have a career altering injury that affects his NFL tenure. Also LF took out an insurance policy and didn’t play his last collegiate football game. Why?! Because he knows the risk that comes with it. The goal is to have a long NFL career. Not to just get drafted. Even Marcus, with his harsh injuries got drafted, but those injuries derailed his NFL career.

I agree with all of those points Dag. And KJ is one of my favorite AU players ever. I long ago quit debating whether or not a kid I don't know should go pro early. I was challenging those who seem to believe that having a lot of carries in one season was a detriment to going to the NFL, because facts say otherwise. The most important thing is tha we agree KJ is special and has a great family to help him make the right decision. War Eagle!

[DAG 33,982]

3 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

I agree with all of those points Dag. And KJ is one of my favorite AU players ever. I long ago quit debating whether or not a kid I don't know should go pro early. I was challenging those who seem to believe that having a lot of carries in one season was a detriment to going to the NFL, because facts say otherwise. The most important thing is tha we agree KJ is special and has a great family to help him make the right decision. War Eagle!

I think we were actually agreeing more than disagreeing . WDE

[alexava 6,973]

KJ has what i consider nagging injuries. not serious, disabling injuries. big difference. Caddilac was the opposite. with exception to cramps in one game he was either 100% or had a broken bone. I don't know if KJ would be business wise to go now or try to come back and show better durability. There is probably no sure choice.

[DAG 33,982]

20 minutes ago, alexava said:

KJ has what i consider nagging injuries. not serious, disabling injuries. big difference. Caddilac was the opposite. with exception to cramps in one game he was either 100% or had a broken bone. I don't know if KJ would be business wise to go now or try to come back and show better durability. There is probably no sure choice.

Nagging injuries are some of the worst injuries you could possibly have as an athlete. At least with a disabling injury you can have a procedure done which may or may not fix the problem.

Nagging injuries are done with treatment and rest and they still can be problematic throughout your career. 

Example: look at Kawhi Leonard vs Tony Parker

[AUwent 3,748]

Gus should try to convince KJ to stay but he MUST promise him that he’ll actually develop and play KMart, Barrett, Miller, and AMart...and keep said promise.

[GoAU 1,600]

1 hour ago, AUwent said:

Gus should try to convince KJ to stay but he MUST promise him that he’ll actually develop and play KMart, Barrett, Miller, and AMart...and keep said promise.

Understand that KJ may not find this advantageous if he's trying to have good standing in the draft.  If I'm a RB trying to get drafted I'd want to have stats as gob as I could possibly get them.  Coming back next year to have less carries, yards, etc wouldn't likely help his draft status.

Also, for those of you that feel like Gus mercilesslygrinds his RBs into pulp I have 3 things that you should consider:

1) it is more than a pure coaching decision.  The player has to raise the issue if he's hurt, and the medical staff will not clear a hurt player

2) it's in the coaches best interest to keep his RBs healthy.  Losing a star back like we did is not what a coach wants.  Remember, they have much more skin in the game than any of us do from a W or L perspective.   They also know way more about how ready any of the backs are.

3) our offense isn't exactly conducive to subbing players in and out frequently,  as it allows the D to sub as well and close the pace of the game.  If you're gonna sub in this system it's best to do it for several plays in a row or even whole series.

[Mikey 16,581]

Anybody remember between Cadilac's sophomore and junior years when he was commonly referred to as "Oft injured Cadillac Williams"? I do. He was still the 2nd player picked in the draft, right?

This concept of Gus "running the backs into the ground" seems silly to me. Nobody remembers Cadillac carrying the ball 41 times against UGA? I do.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Just now, Mikey said:

Anybody remember between Cadilac's sophomore and junior years when he was commonly referred to as "Oft injured Cadillac Williams"? I do. He was still the 2nd player picked in the draft, right?

This concept of Gus "running the backs into the ground" seems silly to me. Nobody remembers Cadillac carrying the ball 41 times against UGA? I do.

Ronnie was 2nd, Caddy was 5th,  I believe, but your point stands.

Caddy carried 42 times for around 220 against Syracuse if I remember correctly.

[aujeff11 6,243]

1 hour ago, GoAU said:

Understand that KJ may not find this advantageous if he's trying to have good standing in the draft.  If I'm a RB trying to get drafted I'd want to have stats as gob as I could possibly get them.  Coming back next year to have less carries, yards, etc wouldn't likely help his draft status.

Also, for those of you that feel like Gus mercilesslygrinds his RBs into pulp I have 3 things that you should consider:

1) it is more than a pure coaching decision.  The player has to raise the issue if he's hurt, and the medical staff will not clear a hurt player

2) it's in the coaches best interest to keep his RBs healthy.  Losing a star back like we did is not what a coach wants.  Remember, they have much more skin in the game than any of us do from a W or L perspective.   They also know way more about how ready any of the backs are.

3) our offense isn't exactly conducive to subbing players in and out frequently,  as it allows the D to sub as well and close the pace of the game.  If you're gonna sub in this system it's best to do it for several plays in a row or even whole series.

Exactly 

[alexava 6,973]

Cadillac holds record at Auburn for number of carries. Career 

[milehighfan 1,240]

6 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

Don’t think so. 

http://www.auburntigers.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/dontavius_russell_907448.html

You're probably right, I didn't know.

[leglessdan 1,934]

I know damn well y'all ain't comparing a backfield with Ronnie Brown and Cadillac to the backfield we have now...lol. The main arguments I've seen in this forum in regards to carries are the lack of developing depth behind RB1. So yeah, carries do matter in regard to durability when you take no measures in having a backup. Lol, you're comparing  one of the all time best backfields in Auburn history to running Kerryon to death because we don't have a backup. Not even remotely close. 

[AUwent 3,748]

16 minutes ago, leglessdan said:

I know damn well y'all ain't comparing a backfield with Ronnie Brown and Cadillac to the backfield we have now...lol. The main arguments I've seen in this forum in regards to carries are the lack of developing depth behind RB1. So yeah, carries do matter in regard to durability when you take no measures in having a backup. Lol, you're comparing  one of the all time best backfields in Auburn history to running Kerryon to death because we don't have a backup. Not even remotely close. 

Falls on Gus for not developing a backup. I think it’s BS that we don’t have any good backups. As good as KJ? No, but we’d better have some options for if he decides to leave.

To be fair, it really seemed like the three “cupcakes” this year treated us like their Super Bowl, like much more so than usual, so that hindered our ability to play backups. Well, at least in Mercer’s case, I just think we were so despondent after Clemson that it messed with us. For the love of god NO MORE CLEMSON (unless it’s in a playoff game).

[DAG 33,982]

36 minutes ago, leglessdan said:

I know damn well y'all ain't comparing a backfield with Ronnie Brown and Cadillac to the backfield we have now...lol. The main arguments I've seen in this forum in regards to carries are the lack of developing depth behind RB1. So yeah, carries do matter in regard to durability when you take no measures in having a backup. Lol, you're comparing  one of the all time best backfields in Auburn history to running Kerryon to death because we don't have a backup. Not even remotely close. 

Yeah, people seem to forget that. People also seem to forget splitting carries keep you fresh, builds depth and actually provides more success to your running game. Look at our most successful years. Tre Mason running the ball 300 times with Nick Marshall back there is a wee bit different than Tre Mason running the ball with JS. Dyer running the ball with cam newton was a little bit different than running the ball with Trotter. Same goes for Ronnie and Cadillac. Wait a minute, a healthy and effective Sony, Chubb also makes the difference. UGA is confidently in the playoffs with both taking high volumes of carries, only in excess due to more opportunity built with depth. Gus should know this or did he forget about the time he used D-Mac, Felix Jones and Peyton Hillis effectively? Oh btw, Arkansas won the SEC West that year.

[aujeff11 6,243]

15 minutes ago, DAG said:

Tre Mason running the ball 300 times with Nick Marshall back there is a wee bit different than Tre Mason running the ball with JS.

Ok. A “wee bit different”..what is your point? 300 carries is still 300 carries. If you rejoiced when Tre did so well when he ran 46 times against Missouri or 29 times against Bama, you cannot complain about Kerryon running 30 times against Bama. 

[DAG 33,982]

2 hours ago, Mikey said:

Anybody remember between Cadilac's sophomore and junior years when he was commonly referred to as "Oft injured Cadillac Williams"? I do. He was still the 2nd player picked in the draft, right?

This concept of Gus "running the backs into the ground" seems silly to me. Nobody remembers Cadillac carrying the ball 41 times against UGA? I do.

You realize this is a straw man, correct? I don't think most people are arguing whether he would get drafted or not. The argument is shelf life. Can he last in the NFl? So for example, Cadillac. Drafted #2 but then hurt every year in the NFL, including his rookie year. Never lived up to the hype and out of the league in 5 years. Is it a cause and effect relationship? I want say without evidence, but most players feel as it is, which is why they take steps to minimize the risk.

[DAG 33,982]

3 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Ok. A “wee bit different”..what is your point? 300 carries is still 300 carries. If you rejoiced when Tre did so well when he ran 46 times against Missouri or 29 times against Bama, you cannot complain about Kerryon running 30 times against Bama. 

Do I really have to explain this? Tre Mason probably does not get 300 carries if he is the only person in the backfield who the defense has to engage with. Not only that, NM opens up the running game as he is taken close to 200 carries. Mason doesn't have to take the brunt of everything. He gets rest, he doesn't necessarily have to always get hit. For example, once he makes a big run. Instead of the coaches tell him to keep the ball again, NM instead is a run threat and can now be the running back. More scoring opportunities, healthier backs, fresher backs. How can anybody argue against that is beyond me? KJ doesn't have to run the ball 17 straight times against the thick of LSU defense if there is a NM back there or another RB who they trust. I know that means nothing to you guys who aren't out their playing but it does add up. 

Okay so let's try this again. Tre Mason ran the ball 46 times against Missouri. Cool. NM also ran the ball 16 times for over 100 yards. Corey Grant also ran the ball 5 times for 60 odd yards. It's not just ONE GUY running the ball the whole freaking game. Big difference.

[aujeff11 6,243]

31 minutes ago, DAG said:

Can he last in the NFl? So for example, Cadillac. Drafted #2

Wrong 

31 minutes ago, DAG said:

Never lived up to the hype and out of the league in 5 years

His cleats were sent to NFL HOF for his torrid start. He lived up to the hype until the injuries derailed him.

31 minutes ago, DAG said:

I want say without evidence, but most players feel as it is, which is why they take steps to minimize the risk.

There are players like Gurley, Bell, and Ezekiel that are just as effective whether they are feature back or not. Not all RBs are trying to dodge the carries. 

[DAG 33,982]

2 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Wrong 

His cleats were sent to NFL HOF for his torrid start. He lives up to the hype until the injuries derailed him.

There are players like Gurley, Bell, and Ezekiel that are just as effective whether they are feature back or not. Not all RBS are trying to dodge the carries. 

How is that wrong? He lasted 5 years in the NFL as the #2 back drafted. Are you really going to sit there and say his numbers represented that? I am not going to even continue the discussion if you are going to try to even remotely argue that?

Who said anything about dodging carries? Building depth is beneficial to the team. It is easy for the person eating nachos on the sideline to say this.

[DAG 33,982]

9 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Wrong 

His cleats were sent to NFL HOF for his torrid start. He lives up to the hype until the injuries derailed him.

There are players like Gurley, Bell, and Ezekiel that are just as effective whether they are feature back or not. Not all RBS are trying to dodge the carries. 

Ok David Johnson Glove and cleats are in the HOF. Cody parkey cleats are in the hall of fame. And?

[aujeff11 6,243]

23 minutes ago, DAG said:

Do I really have to explain this?

Umm yes. Like I said 300 carries is still 300 carries. 

23 minutes ago, DAG said:

Tre Mason probably does not get 300 carries if he is the only person in the backfield who the defense has to engage with.

Right out the gate, you attack with assumptions. Poor start. 

23 minutes ago, DAG said:

Mason doesn't have to take the brunt of everything

He took the brunt of 300 carries. 

23 minutes ago, DAG said:

Instead of the coaches tell him to keep the ball again, NM instead is a run threat and can now be the running threat.

He still got 300 carries. Like I said, we’ve seen Kerryon and KP, both, go down with injury without being tackled at all. The type of tackle doesn’t always matter.

23 minutes ago, DAG said:

KJ doesn't have to run the ball 17 straight times against the thick of LSU defense if there is a NM back there or another RB who they trust.

Doesn’t have to run it 17 straight times if there are receivers that we can pass to as well... More than one way to skin a cat. 

23 minutes ago, DAG said:

Okay so let's try this again. Tre Mason ran the ball 46 times against Missouri. Cool. NM also ran the ball 16 times for over 100 yards. Corey Grant also ran the ball 5 times for 60 odd yards. It's not just ONE GUY running the ball the whole freaking game. Big difference.

Because the other 15 carries were distributed accordingly, Tre Mason’s 46 carries made so much sense, but Kerryon Johnson’s 30 carries against Bama were too high and unnecessary. Like that makes so much sense.