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bigbird

When and when not to look for the ball.

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2 hours ago, AuburnNTexas said:

Big Bird explained this previously. Receivers fake the things to make DB's react. Reach a hand up when ball isn't there  open eyes wider etc. Everything you can key on a receiver can fake to make you react. In the movies they always do the white knuckle of an O-Lineman as a key. O-linemen watch the same movies. I can squeeze my fingers really tight without having downward pressure on the ground and get the same effect. For every read their is a trick to offset it.  It is a true cat and mouse game inside the game.

No doubt, but around 3-4 seconds into the route, the receiver is close to being in the catch zone (meaning ball delivery is likely by this time). To continue running without turning the head around by this time is pointless. My point is, I doubt even Kirby forbids his players to find the ball regardless of which phase. In either case, the DB should be close enough to be in either phase AND find the ball, or he's just plain-out beat already anyway.    

Of course this would not apply to short routes, but it's the deep routes that draw my ire when someone has their back to the ball when it arrives.

I did play a little DB, btw, so the concepts aren't foreign to me.

 

 

 

Edited by Swamp Eagle
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Thanks for the reply Bird. 

And that was a great article. 

I liked the under call concept and the matchs that relate after the call, or no call. A savy ILB duo could really take advantage of the RB matchup scheme and create a heavy delay blitz. Only 1 has man match and the other is a spy or mid drop. Both can go with RB inside pass pro if they are good enough.

Bird do you run both 34 odd front and 43 even front to show the 2 high look, or just stick to one?

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On 9/3/2018 at 3:18 PM, bigbird said:

Alright so here it goes. There is always confusion and complaining about DBs and why they are not looking back for the ball. Hopefully this will help clear some of it up.

The answer is different for each player, but concept remains the same. Basically, the rule is, when a DB is in phase, and in a position of control they can turn and find the ball.

Well, what does that mean?

In phase vs out of phase.

In phase means the DB is running hip to hip with the receiver. Out of phase means the DB is trailing and trying to catch up to the WR.

Position of control

Typically, the position of control is when the DBs shoulder is ahead of the receiver or when you can read his opposite number.  The DB can affect the receivers speed and route and therefore can control the receiver. From this position, a DB can "lean and locate".  By feeling the receiver with your off arm and body you are assured not to lose him.

 

If the DB is not in phase and in a position of control and he looks back, he slows down and the separation increases.  The DB should keep eyes on the receiver, track him down, and play the ball through the basket by raking or clubbing when the ball arrives.

Any questions, ask away.

Thanks @bigbird!  I was trying to explain this concept to my brother in law during the game Saturday.  You just did it far better!  Now I can just tell him to read your post.  

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On 9/3/2018 at 3:18 PM, bigbird said:

Alright so here it goes. There is always confusion and complaining about DBs and why they are not looking back for the ball. Hopefully this will help clear some of it up.

The answer is different for each player, but concept remains the same. Basically, the rule is, when a DB is in phase and in a position of control they can turn and find the ball.

Well, what does that mean?

In phase vs out of phase.

In phase means the DB is running hip to hip with the receiver. Out of phase means the DB is trailing and trying to catch up to the WR.

Position of control

Typically, the position of control is when the DBs shoulder is ahead of the receiver or when you can read his opposite number.  The DB can affect the receivers speed and route and therefore can control the receiver. From this position, a DB can "lean and locate".  By feeling the receiver with your off arm and body you are assured not to lose him.

 

If the DB is not in phase and in a position of control and he looks back, he slows down and the separation increases.  The DB should keep eyes on the receiver, track him down, and play the ball through the basket by raking or clubbing when the ball arrives.

Any questions, ask away.

Thanks Bird! This same question pops up on EVERY forum of every fanbase in college football. Seems like none of the million dollar coaches, not even Saban and Smart,  know to teach the DB's to look back for the ball. Nobody ever explains how the DB is supposed to know WHEN to look back,  the receiver could fake with his eyes/hands and when the DB turns around, the receiver makes a cut and is wide open.

Maybe this one should be a sticky along with that tired old  fan line "we don't throw to the tight end" and "We should have blitzed". 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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You NEVER take your eyes off a man if he's behind you you turn when you can feel him or track him. You can also use leverage and it will rarely get called leaning on a wr. All of this is much easier talking of course, being able to run with a guy and have a presence of mind to be aware of the am or just the football in general is very hard to do. 

 

And you never quit fighting so you rake at the ball and fight every second of the play. In my experience hitting forearms usually always yielded great results ?

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Yesterday at times our 2nd and 3rd string DBs looked as if they can cover receivers better than our first string DBs. 

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bigbird's explanation is excellent and makes clear just how difficult playing DB is.

But JB and other scrambler QBs increase the problematics of coverage. When a good scrambling QB buys time and has receivers he has worked with and can anticipate how a receiver will try to get open, coverage becomes even more difficult. At that point, DB speed, quickness and experience become more important. Covering a familiar opponent sure helps.

I try not to diss our DBs, because I consider DB one of the very most difficult positions to play. I mean, just look how Mond (TA&M) totally shredded the Clemson secondary, which ain't no slouch at defense. Fact is, technique is really important, but only extends so far.

 

 

Edited by AURex
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On 9/3/2018 at 3:18 PM, bigbird said:

Alright so here it goes. There is always confusion and complaining about DBs and why they are not looking back for the ball. Hopefully this will help clear some of it up.

The answer is different for each player, but concept remains the same. Basically, the rule is, when a DB is in phase and in a position of control they can turn and find the ball.

Well, what does that mean?

In phase vs out of phase.

In phase means the DB is running hip to hip with the receiver. Out of phase means the DB is trailing and trying to catch up to the WR.

Position of control

Typically, the position of control is when the DBs shoulder is ahead of the receiver or when you can read his opposite number.  The DB can affect the receivers speed and route and therefore can control the receiver. From this position, a DB can "lean and locate".  By feeling the receiver with your off arm and body you are assured not to lose him.

 

If the DB is not in phase and in a position of control and he looks back, he slows down and the separation increases.  The DB should keep eyes on the receiver, track him down, and play the ball through the basket by raking or clubbing when the ball arrives.

Any questions, ask away.

 They say that if you want to find out if someone really knows their stuff get them to explain something simply enough that pretty much anyone can understand.  This may not be rocket science or general relativity, but it's pretty darn clear you know your stuff, Bird.  Even I could understand your explanation here, and that's saying something. :) 

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I agree with the concepts explained in this thread. The main problem is at the line of scrimmage right after the snap. We do not jam the receivers or in any way attempt to re-direct them at the start of their route. When a WR gets a clean release, it can mean trouble most the time, especially when playing a LOT of man coverage.

 

War Eagle - beat LSWhooo!

 

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I know everyone here knows more football than me but I’d still prefer to see the db’s turn and look for the ball at least occasionally. Maybe then they wouldn’t have to hold on to the receivers arms and jerseys. 

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On ‎9‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 7:53 PM, rockfordpi said:

Thanks Bird! This same question pops up on EVERY forum of every fanbase in college football. Seems like none of the million dollar coaches, not even Saban and Smart,  know to teach the DB's to look back for the ball. Nobody ever explains how the DB is supposed to know WHEN to look back,  the receiver could fake with his eyes/hands and when the DB turns around, the receiver makes a cut and is wide open.

Maybe this one should be a sticky along with that tired old  fan line "we don't throw to the tight end" and "We should have blitzed". 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you watched the LSU game Saturday, they were finding the ball and batting away throws left and right. Somebody has it figured out.

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There should be an internal clock in the dbs head that to start looking for the ball around 3 seconds.  After that the qb will probably be sacked or receiver has outrun the quarterbacks arm.

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Whatever the supposed answer is, other teams have figured out we don’t do it and subsequently lob balls to a spot downfield and complete almost all of them. 

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Oh nice explanation. I understand it more now.

 

There are several times where I am watching a game(not just Auburn games) where I am like "wow, omg, if you had turned your head you would have an interception..."

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