The real story of Auburn and the NCAA

[AU64 10,122]

5 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

we had another silly violation in that period. An ass't coach took a kid to a movie and paid for his ticket.....like 10 cents. Ridiculous. I am  good friends with the Captain of bama's FB team Marlin (Scooter) Dyess. He came to work for me at NASA when he graduated. He scored the winning TD against us in Bryant's second year. Great guy and he told me all kinds of stuff about bama violations.  He left us to go into partnership in a sporting goods business which was his dream. I'm sure you know Dyess-Hibbett.....now just Hibbetts.

thing is...free movies were pretty standard....I've been at the theater more than once and a couple athletes just walked on in and took a seat...and of course there the field trips to Bremen Manufacturing where guys could go pick out some shirts and slacks.    That kind of stuff seemed routine and I'm sure not just at AU. 

[augolf1716 21,123]

9 minutes ago, AU64 said:

thing is...free movies were pretty standard....I've been at the theater more than once and a couple athletes just walked on in and took a seat...and of course there the field trips to Bremen Manufacturing where guys could go pick out some shirts and slacks.    That kind of stuff seemed routine and I'm sure not just at AU. 

Hell I went there not just shirts and slacks we picked out suits, ties and everything and I mean several suits as well as cash

[AU64 10,122]

7 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

Hell I went there not just shirts and slacks we picked out suits, ties and everything and I mean several suits as well as cash

Well, I was trying to be circumspect.....but I had a friend on the team ….DB in 1963 and was at his dorm room one evening to study some statistics and he showed me what he had picked up a couple days before over in Georgia.  As I recall, it was a couple suits and shirts to go with them...and ties too of course. .  

And of course the men's store in Auburn....same thing....what was the guy who was known as the man with the tape?  ,...wore it around his neck to measure customers for suits and shirt sleeve lengths and personally served the football players.  

 

PS...and of course we were on probation all that time too...."double secret"...no TV, no radio and damn near no newspaper.

 

[aujeff11 6,243]

16 minutes ago, AU64 said:

PS...and of course we were on probation all that time too...."double secret"...no TV, no radio and damn near no newspaper.

How does one land on probation without tv, radio, and no newspaper? Auburn really was some cheating a**es back in the day. 

 

Or are you saying we were prohibited from such things?

[3rdgeneration 6,469]

Y’all shut up! The NCAA will figure out a way to charge us with these violations now. 😳😁😂

[AU64 10,122]

1 minute ago, aujeff11 said:

How does one land on probation without tv, radio, and no newspaper? Auburn really was some cheating a**es back in the day. 

That was about as close to shutting down a program as anyone came until the SMU situation. 

We were not allowed on TV, no bowl games for at least 5 years, fined us, think there restrictions on radio coverage and UPI or AP basically would not cover us and despite the undefeated team in 57 and one loss team in 58, we were not in the polls.   I may be over-stating it a bit.....but not by much...

[aujeff11 6,243]

1 minute ago, AU64 said:

That was about as close to shutting down a program as anyone came until the SMU situation. 

We were not allowed on TV, no bowl games for at least 5 years, fined us, think there restrictions on radio coverage and UPI or AP basically would not cover us and despite the undefeated team in 57 and one loss team in 58, we were not in the polls.   I may be over-stating it a bit.....but not by much...

I didn’t start paying attention to anything Auburn until the millennium when I was 11 years old. All I’ve ever known are secondary violations and a basketball player point shaving. It’s kinda weird knowing that we used to be so anti Auburn creed...

[AU64 10,122]

1 minute ago, aujeff11 said:

I didn’t start paying attention to anything Auburn until the millennium when I was 11 years old. All I’ve ever known are secondary violations and a basketball player point shaving. It’s kinda weird knowing that we used to be so anti Auburn creed...

Well, guess I could get Tigerbelle to explain it better than me...but REC has been around a long time and cheating was common everywhere....as Golf noted, and nobody did much about it.  

JMO but NCAA decided to crack down on the issue and Auburn was a good place to start.  We were a doormat program in the early 1950s that suddenly got pretty good and everyone figured rightly that we were cheating. ...and we were apparently stupid and open about paying players.   I knew guys at other colleges at the same time who were playing sports and it was no different but as I say, NCAA wanted to put an end to it so they got AU and maybe some other schools but I don't recall.   But during the late 50s and early  60s most of the SEC was on probation to some extent. 

We missed a number of bowl games, did not share bowl money, could not be on TV for several years too.  Other stuff too. 

 

[aujeff11 6,243]

31 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Well, guess I could get Tigerbelle to explain it better than me...but REC has been around a long time and cheating was common everywhere....

I’m guessing she was around too, but most things she post to this day is still too tinfoil hat regarding the REC for me to take seriously. Almost like Wareagle6 with the black helicopter theories. 

 It’s no big deal because I’ve always known about our major violations, but hits a little closer to home when I see our golf athletes that are still alive were getting suits too. I know others did it but we knowingly broke the rules too. Guess we really deserve an asterisk on that 1957 season. 

Mostly, I’m amazed that the NCAA could nab anybody back then with the lack of resources that they had.Surely, we would have to have a blinking, neon sign sitting adjacent to the old timey Coco Cola sign saying  “athletes, bagmen are right here, don’t tell the NCAA” for the NCAA to get us. 

We have social media and technology today that can shrink the wide world of information to a pinpoint but yet the NCAA is as inept as ever at punishing the implicated programs. 

[SumterAubie 3,031]

11 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Would really, really love for our few friendly journo types to include the facts in Starkville every time this comes up. 

Any logical read of all the facts shows that this was clearly a Kenny Rogers story. 

Right. I've yet to understand how a State rep met with Mr. Newton, yet they skated.

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 hours ago, SumterAubie said:

Right. I've yet to understand how a State rep met with Mr. Newton, yet they skated.

I guess because he didn't go there? I guess?

It's just so crazy that there is one person in this whole stupid story whose profession is literally shady agent work, and he just so happens to be a Mississippi State alum. Clearly the guy saw an opportunity and tried to make something happen. (How do you get a weird number like $180k? Easy, subtract a 10% agent's cut from $200k.) Yes, Cecil was naive and gave the guy about 5 minutes more of his time than he should have. Same for whoever these MSU guys were that they met with. But that was that.

But seriously. How does the shady street agent- who was busted for impersonating an NFLPA rep at an NFLPA meeting, and who was a Mississippi State alum- turn into the dependable witness while a preacher and a different university turn into the greatest villains in the history of amateur sports? Absolutely insane and illogical. And it's a damned shame that there's never been a prominent voice on our side to stand up and say it. 

[AFTiger 282]

Mr. Sewell of Sewell Mfg in Bremen was a generous man who loved Auburn He outfitted many Auburn athletes who did not have nice clothes. This was legal at the time. I made many trips there myself. Mr. Sewell is the man who paid for our fight song.

Olin Hill did not have enough money to be giving free suits to football players. He periodically was too busy going out of business. 

If you read the link I posted earlier, you will have a better understanding of what happened. 

 

TV in the fifties was limited to one televised game per week until the Georgia/Oklahoma suit against the NCAA freed televised college football. We were not banned from radio or print. I believe the other teams penalized were Texas A&M  (Bryant) and Kentucky.

 

[AU64 10,122]

9 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

I’m guessing she was around too, but most things she post to this day is still too tinfoil hat regarding the REC for me to take seriously. Almost like Wareagle6 with the black helicopter theories. 

 It’s no big deal because I’ve always known about our major violations, but hits a little closer to home when I see our golf athletes that are still alive were getting suits too. I know others did it but we knowingly broke the rules too. Guess we really deserve an asterisk on that 1957 season. 

Mostly, I’m amazed that the NCAA could nab anybody back then with the lack of resources that they had.Surely, we would have to have a blinking, neon sign sitting adjacent to the old timey Coco Cola sign saying  “athletes, bagmen are right here, don’t tell the NCAA” for the NCAA to get us. 

We have social media and technology today that can shrink the wide world of information to a pinpoint but yet the NCAA is as inept as ever at punishing the implicated programs. 

The REC reference was a joke....and I still don't think it's an AU problem but back in the day, before lucrative scholarships, the little stuff was common practice, especially in small college towns where everyone knew everyone and athletes were able to stop in stores for appreciative gifts or tickets.     

I think it was an issue where movies, clothes and even some money was pretty common and NCAA wanted it stopped.   So the way to get everyone's attention was to hammer someone ...and AU boosters and coaches were stupid and flagrant and made an good "example" for the NCAA so we were "elected".    Did not take a big investigation....just a couple players who took money and then went somewhere else talked and that was it.   Worse still I guess is that our coaches and boosters were not even good judges of talent and gave money to guys who went somewhere else and never did much on the football field.    

The ability of MSU to remain untouched in the Cam recruitment remains one of today's mysteries …...though I suspect that Dan M and MSU signed some kind of agreement from the NCAA that amounted to a get out of jail card, …."held them harmless" if they would spill the beans on what went on and help NCAA nail Auburn.  JMO but there had to be some agreement that let the bullies off the hook in exchange for DM telling all he knew about Cam at U of F and the actions with MSU.  The media has  amnesia and so you/we are likely to never hear them mentioned when Cam's  recruitment is discussed. 

Back in the day of the big probation, there was no pleading that we were innocent....it was just the defense of "everyone is doing it"...which was true, but which was not longer sufficient defense. 

The fact that just about everyone in the media writing about AU cheating has to do research or go to Wikipedia to find out anything since it happened so long ago....like understanding the cold war, you had to be there to really know the context. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, AU64 said:

The ability of MSU to remain untouched in the Cam recruitment remains one of today's mysteries …...though I suspect that Dan M and MSU signed some kind of agreement from the NCAA that amounted to a get out of jail card, …."held them harmless" if they would spill the beans on what went on and help NCAA nail Auburn.  JMO but there had to be some agreement that let the bullies off the hook in exchange for DM telling all he knew about Cam at U of F and the actions with MSU.  The media has  amnesia and so you/we are likely to never hear them mentioned when Cam's  recruitment is discussed. 

Between us and Ole Miss, it's hard not to consider that Mullen is somehow a made guy a la saban. 

[AU64 10,122]

1 hour ago, AFTiger said:

Mr. Sewell of Sewell Mfg in Bremen was a generous man who loved Auburn He outfitted many Auburn athletes who did not have nice clothes. This was legal at the time. I made many trips there myself. Mr. Sewell is the man who paid for our fight song.

Olin Hill did not have enough money to be giving free suits to football players. He periodically was too busy going out of business. 

If you read the link I posted earlier, you will have a better understanding of what happened. 

 

TV in the fifties was limited to one televised game per week until the Georgia/Oklahoma suit against the NCAA freed televised college football. We were not banned from radio or print. I believe the other teams penalized were Texas A&M  (Bryant) and Kentucky.

 

not quite true...

The NCAA believed that broadcasting one game a week would prevent further controversy while limiting any decrease in attendance. However, the Big Ten Conference was unhappy with the arrangement, and it pressured the NCAA to allow regional telecasts as well. Finally, in 1955 the NCAA revised its plan, keeping eight national games while permitting true regional telecasts during five specified weeks of the season. This was essentially the television plan that stayed in place until the University of Oklahoma and the University of Georgia filed suit against the NCAA in 1981, alleging antitrust violations.

Bowl games were always exempt from the NCAA's television regulations, and the games' organizers were free to sign rights deals with any network. Mizlou Television Network, for instance, carried many of the bowl games (mostly lower-end bowls) despite not holding any regular season rights.

 

Auburn was a top ranked team and missed many TV opportunities from 1956 until 1963 I think it was....which was a big deal back when there were not so many game on the tube...and of course the bowl ban was a big and expensive thing too.  Plus AP did not count AU in the polls for several years.   Other than SMU, I don't think any college team was punished more severely than AU …especially on a proportional basis.  

But we were guilty....just not equitably treated in the view of many AU people of that era. 

[keesler 5,924]

On 4/20/2019 at 5:02 PM, 3rdgeneration said:

That was kind of my thought, why bring this up now?

The corndogs have been hammering this home for weeks since Wade was suspended.  There's absolutely no correlation between LSU/Wade and AU/Bruce, but they honestly think it's apples to apples.  The crap they've drug up on Bruce is ancient and then they poured on with the Ira Bowman crap, it's ridiculous.   I'm glad PM set the record straight, but it won't matter because the LSU contingent feel the need to point fingers at AU.

[TigerOne 1,140]

what about Colin Sexton friends and family getting paid? And continued to play?

What did Avery really know? Was that part of the reason for letting him go?

 

[augolf1716 21,123]

12 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

 It’s no big deal because I’ve always known about our major violations, but hits a little closer to home when I see our golf athletes that are still alive were getting suits too. I know others did it but we knowingly broke the rules too. Guess we really deserve an asterisk on that 1957 season

I should clarify I got the suits only because I was on a recruiting trip with my best friend who was one of the top recruits in the south in football. We got just as much if not more on trips to bammer, Vols, Ole Miss it always included money nothing big just spending money while on the visit. Heck bear promised him that his girlfriend would get free tuition and be on the cheerleading squad. Recruitng visits back then are nothing like they are now

[aujeff11 6,243]

6 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

I should clarify I got the suits only because I was on a recruiting trip with my best friend who was one of the top recruits in the south in football. We got just as much if not more on trips to bammer, Vols, Ole Miss it always included money nothing big just spending money while on the visit. Heck bear promised him that his girlfriend would get free tuition and be on the cheerleading squad. Recruitng visits back then are nothing like they are now

In theory I have no problem with illegal benefits as long as we don’t get caught. Once we get caught,  shame on us. Pathetic losers. 

Didnt Dye or his assistant have a black book detailing all illegal benefits provided? What a loser!!

 

 

[grandpajay 121]

14 hours ago, AU64 said:

That was about as close to shutting down a program as anyone came until the SMU situation. 

We were not allowed on TV, no bowl games for at least 5 years, fined us, think there restrictions on radio coverage and UPI or AP basically would not cover us and despite the undefeated team in 57 and one loss team in 58, we were not in the polls.   I may be over-stating it a bit.....but not by much...

We were AP national champs in 57, no bowl game though.

[AU64 10,122]

2 hours ago, grandpajay said:

We were AP national champs in 57, no bowl game though.

I thought it was UPI...and other was Ohio State....one of them did not have AU listed.   They were to two media sources of note back then. 

[AU64 10,122]

2 hours ago, grandpajay said:

We were AP national champs in 57, no bowl game though.

We went from 57-63 without a bowl game....most of those years we were good enough but were ineligible...

[grandpajay 121]

2 hours ago, AU64 said:

We went from 57-63 without a bowl game....most of those years we were good enough but were ineligible...

We played Vandy in the 1955 Gator Bowl (I think), the next bowl was the 1963 team played Nebraska in the Orange Bowl (?). Probably played New Years day 1964, heart breaking loss. Last drive by Jimmy Sidle, Tucker Fredrickson and crew ended with a incomplete pass in the endzone as time expired. I lost my first football bet (10$ with my boss). Broke my heart and my wallet.

[AU64 10,122]

1 minute ago, grandpajay said:

We played Vandy in the 1955 Gator Bowl (I think), the next bowl was the 1963 team played Nebraska in the Orange Bowl (?). Probably played New Years day 1964, heart breaking loss. Last drive by Jimmy Sidle, Tuckerson Frederickson and crew ended with a incomplete pass in the endzone as time expired. I lost my first football bet (10$ with my boss). Broke my heart and my wallet.

Yep no bowl games my entire time at AU despite some good teams.  Had a friend on the team at the time who offered me tickets to the Orange Bowl but I had no money for travel or hotel so just suffered at the end like you did.  If we could have beaten Neb we had a shot at #1.     Watching Sidle and Fredrickson on the "student body right" with that team was special and a good way to close out my years at AU.    Saw our only loss that season at Jackson, MS to state....what was the famous cow bell game back then.   BUT....at least I did get to see our first win over bama in a great while....10-8 at Legion Field.  

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

3 hours ago, grandpajay said:

We were AP national champs in 57, no bowl game though.

You are right and Ohio State won the UPI /Coaches Poll. OS Coach Woody Hayes was pissed that AU won the AP poll (considered more prestigious)and mouthed of "Who have they played?"