The Republican Party

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

On 1/31/2021 at 11:35 AM, SaltyTiger said:

So you agree that they are acting on behalf of the people that put them in office? 

Here's the thing. That's not their job. Really. Their job is to act on behalf of upholding and defending the Constitution. Their job is to do what's right even if what is right is unpopular with their constituents. These folks are playing a very, very dangerous game. Principiis obsta and Finem respice — ‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’

 

From Milton Mayer's "They Thought They Were Free" (edited in parts to update to present day.)

Quote

"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it — please try to believe me — unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no (patriot) could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.

"How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice — ‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’ But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have. And everyone counts on that might.

[snip]

"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn’t see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not? — Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

[snip]

"And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying (‘terrorist!’) collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people — is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed."

 

 

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

18 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

So it's not undermining our democracy to steal an election, but it is to point out that it was stolen.

Are you on hard drugs?

[I_M4_AU 7,804]

10 minutes ago, CleCoTiger said:

Here's the thing. That's not their job. Really. Their job is to act on behalf of upholding and defending the Constitution.

How do you uphold the Constitution when the administration believes it is a *living* document and was based on a lie?

[homersapien 11,368]

43 minutes ago, CleCoTiger said:

Are you on hard drugs?

True believer

Probably believes in the 'Orbiting Jewish Laser' thing too.

[homersapien 11,368]

23 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

Lol, your party is not much of an upgrade. Still pretty much in the cesspool of American politics. 

You exhibit a critical lack of discernment if you think the current Republican party is remotely comparable to the Democratic party.

[DKW 86 7,419]

i didnt read but 2-3 of the posts.

but let me say this, trump is only a small part of the issues with the republicans. someone please list me something they stand for that is meaningful and benefits all the populace? i cant either. 

the party used to be be about ideas, now it is about the cult of trumpisms.  it used to be about so many positive things, now it is about conspiracy theories and insanity. the Dems arent far behind. i honestly cant hear the word “Russians” without grinning ear to ear about how stupid the speaker must be. 

they are being blamed for everything these days. I MEAN EVERYTHING. 

[autigeremt 6,602]

39 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

i didnt read but 2-3 of the posts.

but let me say this, trump is only a small part of the issues with the republicans. someone please list me something they stand for that is meaningful and benefits all the populace? i cant either. 

the party used to be be about ideas, now it is about the cult of trumpisms.  it used to be about so many positive things, now it is about conspiracy theories and insanity. the dmes arent far behind. i honestly cant hear the word “Russians” without grinning ear to ear about how stupid the speaker must be. 

they are being blamed for everything these days. I MEAN EVERYTHING. 

You and I both know that the two parties are just two sides of the same coin. The pendulum swings are now massive in the American political world where the citizen is used as a pawn to gain an advantage on election day. Very little is actually done to benefit the everyday American citizen. Republicans have been taken into the wilderness but Democrats have been working their angle for years as well. It's not hard to see unless you refuse to look. 

[jj3jordan 2,051]

2 hours ago, CleCoTiger said:

Are you on hard drugs?

No. Are you too dim or afraid to answer that question?

[homersapien 11,368]

3 hours ago, autigeremt said:

You and I both know that the two parties are just two sides of the same coin. The pendulum swings are now massive in the American political world where the citizen is used as a pawn to gain an advantage on election day. Very little is actually done to benefit the everyday American citizen. Republicans have been taken into the wilderness but Democrats have been working their angle for years as well. It's not hard to see unless you refuse to look. 

Do you even follow current events?   Republicans are opposing Biden's pandemic relief plan, which will do exactly that.

(And try as you might, you can't out-iconoclast DKW.  It's who he is. )

[homersapien 11,368]

Opinion: In choosing to acquit Trump, Republicans will convict themselves

Opinion by

Jennifer Rubin

Feb. 2, 2021

 

House impeachment managers on Tuesday submitted their brief in advance of the impeachment trial scheduled to begin next week. The brief begins with a statement of incontrovertible facts:

In a grievous betrayal of his Oath of Office, President Trump incited a violent mob to attack the United States Capitol during the Joint Session, thus impeding Congress’s confirmation of Joseph R. Biden, Jr. as the winner of the presidential election. As it stormed the Capitol, the mob yelled out “President Trump Sent Us,” “Hang Mike Pence,” and “Traitor Traitor Traitor.” The insurrectionists assaulted police officers with weapons and chemical agents. They seized control of the Senate chamber floor, the Office of the Speaker of the House, and major sections of the Capitol complex. Members and their staffs were trapped and terrorized. Many officials (including the Vice President himself) barely escaped the rioters. The line of succession to the Presidency was endangered. Our seat of government was violated, vandalized, and desecrated. Congress’s counting of electoral votes was delayed until nightfall and not completed until 4 AM. Hundreds of people were injured in the assault. Five people—including a Capitol Police officer—died.

The brief calls out the pattern of conduct designed to perpetrate the Big Lie that the election was stolen: “After losing the 2020 election, President Trump refused to accept the will of the American people. He spent months asserting, without evidence, that he won in a ‘landslide’ and that the election was ‘stolen.’” They might have added that in perpetuating the Big Lie, the ex-president was aided by members of the Senate who will now sit as jurors, a conflict of interest so glaring that only in the U.S. Senate could it be permitted.

The conclusion of the brief — that such behavior, if it is not punished, will be repeated — is so elementary and the conduct is so egregious that one is tempted to ask why a trial is even needed. The misconduct is indisputably a “high crime and misdemeanor” and the need for deterrence is so obvious that one is hard-pressed to think of any principled objection. As Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.) said in her written statement supporting impeachment: “There has never been a greater betrayal by a President of the United States of his office and his oath to the Constitution.”

But Republicans do object, and for that reason, the trial is necessary. It is necessary to remind the country of the Big Lie that Republicans embraced and the horrendous violence that ensued. It is necessary to force Republicans to make a choice: Support sedition, or support the Constitution.

It is amusing that Republican apologists keep “warning” the impeachment managers not to put forward a factual case. Yes, the facts would be “prejudicial” — insofar as they leave no doubt as to the guilt of both the former president and his Republican enablers. Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) “threatened” to call the FBI as witnesses if the Democrats brought forward witnesses. In fact, Democrats could call on FBI agents as part of their case, too.

Impeachment trials are exercises in public education and accountability, which is precisely why Republicans refused to allow a factual presentation at the first impeachment trial. Democrats do not want to repeat that travesty, but there is a way to avoid a lengthy factual case: Have the ex-president’s lawyers and the Senate as a whole stipulate to the facts set out in the brief. The stipulation should be specific (e.g., it should cite Donald Trump’s tweets and his speech that incited the violence), it should repudiate claims that the election was illegitimate, and it should include observations from members of Congress about the trauma inflicted that day.

Unanimous agreement as to the ex-president’s seditious conduct would be one way to “move on” and to instill “unity.” If Republicans still want to acquit after all that, they can do so — at the price of revealing their own fidelity to a disgraced leader and contempt for democracy.

Republicans want to escape responsibility by clinging to a patently ridiculous argument that the Senate cannot proceed with a trial now that Trump is out of office (after Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) refused to let a trial begin before Jan. 20). But as the managers write in their brief: “As a matter of constitutional text and structure—not to mention common sense—Article II, Section 2 strongly supports the conclusion that former officials remain subject to impeachment and trial for grievous abuses committed during their tenure in office.” The managers point to four cases that support the impeachment trial of an official who left office before the trial. The constitutional argument is no argument at all; it is a dodge by Republicans to avoid confronting their constitutional obligations.

“This is not a case where elections alone are a sufficient safeguard against future abuse; it is the electoral process itself that President Trump attacked and that must be protected from him and anyone else who would seek to mimic his behavior,” the brief concludes. “Indeed, it is difficult to imagine a case that more clearly evokes the reasons why the Framers wrote a disqualification power into the Constitution.” Failure to convict would “embolden future leaders,” they argue.

Let’s be clear: The vast majority of Republicans will refuse to convict because it would mean acknowledging their own complicity in riling up the MAGA base. It would mean acknowledging that their objections to the election results were specious and that their attempt to overthrow the election even after the mob was cleared from the Capitol was reprehensible. It would mean definitively standing up for the Constitution and democracy, instead of clinging to a seditious president’s fictitious version of events.

In choosing to acquit, Republicans will convict themselves, proving once and for all they are incapable of upholding their oaths and of putting defense of democracy over their own perceived advantage.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/02/02/choosing-acquit-trump-republicans-will-convict-themselves/

[AU9377 4,929]

On 2/1/2021 at 6:01 PM, jj3jordan said:

So it's not undermining our democracy to steal an election, but it is to point out that it was stolen.

You actually believe that the election was stolen?  You believe that a vast conspiracy among people that have never spoken to each other and that do not know each other worked in unison to change vote totals somehow?  That kind of rejection of reality is why the majority of the voters in Georgia sent 2 Democrats to the Senate. 

The system endured an assault by one candidate that was willing to throw out 200 years of history and respect for our constitution in order to maintain power.  Can you name one conspiracy theory related to the election that was proven to be true?  You can't, because there are none.

[Grumps 3,704]

1 hour ago, AU9377 said:

You actually believe that the election was stolen?  You believe that a vast conspiracy among people that have never spoken to each other and that do not know each other worked in unison to change vote totals somehow?  That kind of rejection of reality is why the majority of the voters in Georgia sent 2 Democrats to the Senate. 

The system endured an assault by one candidate that was willing to throw out 200 years of history and respect for our constitution in order to maintain power.  Can you name one conspiracy theory related to the election that was proven to be true?  You can't, because there are none.

You believe that a vast conspiracy among people that have never spoken to each other and do not know each other worked in unison to overthrow our government? That kind of rejection of reality is why our government just wasted time with an impeachment hearing and why 75 million people think the democrats are borderline insane.

[AUwent 3,748]

On 2/1/2021 at 10:31 AM, homersapien said:

Hell yeah I'm partisan when the alternative is the Republican Party.  (Go back and start this thread from the beginning.)

True the Dems are definitely better but let's be real, the Overton Window has been moving so far right in this country the last forty years that the Dems are still arguably on par (or even to the right of) right wing parties in other first world countries. What's common place in Canada and in Europe is far far left here.

I wish we could go back to the Roosevelt era ('33-'80) but I am not sure if there's any hope of that happening.

[Leftfield 2,595]

3 hours ago, Grumps said:

You believe that a vast conspiracy among people that have never spoken to each other and do not know each other worked in unison to overthrow our government? That kind of rejection of reality is why our government just wasted time with an impeachment hearing and why 75 million people think the democrats are borderline insane.

Do you realize by this statement you just proved the Democrats right?

No, there was no conspiracy to attack the Capitol. The reason the mob did it was because Trump told them to march there and "stop the steal" because it was the only way they would "save the country."

[Grumps 3,704]

15 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Do you realize by this statement you just proved the Democrats right?

No, there was no conspiracy to attack the Capitol. The reason the mob did it was because Trump told them to march there and "stop the steal" because it was the only way they would "save the country."

So "stop the steal" and "save the country" were those the words that incited the "insurrection"?

The democrats don't have to be proven right. How could they possibly be wrong?

[jj3jordan 2,051]

5 hours ago, AU9377 said:

You actually believe that the election was stolen?  You believe that a vast conspiracy among people that have never spoken to each other and that do not know each other worked in unison to change vote totals somehow?  That kind of rejection of reality is why the majority of the voters in Georgia sent 2 Democrats to the Senate. 

The system endured an assault by one candidate that was willing to throw out 200 years of history and respect for our constitution in order to maintain power.  Can you name one conspiracy theory related to the election that was proven to be true?  You can't, because there are none.

https://www.9and10news.com/content/uploads/2020/12/Antrim_Michigan_Forensics_Report_121320_v2_REDACTED.pdf

[AU9377 4,929]

12 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

https://www.9and10news.com/content/uploads/2020/12/Antrim_Michigan_Forensics_Report_121320_v2_REDACTED.pdf

That literally means nothing.  Dominion machines are not designed with some built in ability to skew an election.  That is fantasy.  I don't think this.  I know this.  Specifically, I know the Dominion system that Georgia uses.  That system is built to produce an actual paper ballot backup for each vote, which is deposited into the system when the vote is cast.  These same bizarre allegations were made in Georgia.  Every case filed in State and Federal court also pointed to this narrative.  In each and every instance, after reviewing everything, those cases were dismissed. Trump appointed judges made many of those decisions.  Judges, election officials and many legislators consider their loyalty to be first and foremost to this country.  A party or political candidate should be down the list and should never be placed above the constitution and our elected form of government.

Dominion has now filed suit against several sources of misinformation.  They are clearly not concerned about their systems being reviewed.  The State of Georgia went as far as to send 8 machines randomly selected to an independent IT firm for inspection.  The results were conclusive that there was nothing wrong with the software.  A Republican Secretary of State and a Republican State Elections Supervisor sent machines to an IT firm of their choosing and those were the results.  Trump has acted with no sense of decency or respect for this country.  Any man worth being respected would have rushed to prevent what happened on Jan 6th from happening.  Instead, he relished in the event like the spoiled entitled child he is.

[AU9377 4,929]

5 hours ago, Grumps said:

You believe that a vast conspiracy among people that have never spoken to each other and do not know each other worked in unison to overthrow our government? That kind of rejection of reality is why our government just wasted time with an impeachment hearing and why 75 million people think the democrats are borderline insane.

I believe that an angry mob of people gathered for a common purpose acted in an attempt to stop the certification of an election in this country.  That is as anti American as it gets.

[Leftfield 2,595]

2 hours ago, Grumps said:

So "stop the steal" and "save the country" were those the words that incited the "insurrection"?

Cumulatively, yes. They were the words, spoken repeatedly over months, that built those people into a frenzy. Then he told those people to march to the Capitol. Why do you think that violence would not be a possible, and in fact probable, outcome of that?  If someone truly believes the election was stolen and has been encouraged over and over again by someone who had no interest in condemning the most violent of his supporters, do you think the most likely result would be them standing hundreds of feet from the Capitol and yelling "STOP"?

Even if you don't believe Trump was responsible for the insurrection, at the very least he was guilty of sedition. Do you believe that actively trying to sabotage the certification of an election based on a lie is not an impeachable offense?

[TexasTiger 12,838]

14 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Cumulatively, yes. They were the words, spoken repeatedly over months, that built those people into a frenzy. Then he told those people to march to the Capitol. Why do you think that violence would not be a possible, and in fact probable, outcome of that?  If someone truly believes the election was stolen and has been encouraged over and over again by someone who had no interest in condemning the most violent of his supporters, do you think the most likely result would be them standing hundreds of feet from the Capitol and yelling "STOP"?

Even if you don't believe Trump was responsible for the insurrection, at the very least he was guilty of sedition. Do you believe that actively trying to sabotage the certification of an election based on a lie is not an impeachable offense?

Grumps doesn’t believe in accountability for Trump.

[DKW 86 7,419]

7 hours ago, Leftfield said:

Cumulatively, yes. They were the words, spoken repeatedly over months, that built those people into a frenzy.

You mean like:
"Stolen Election" (2016)
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Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!
Traitor!

Is that what you mean? It is truly comical the amount of myopic thinking going on here with the partisan hacks on both sides. 
Yall do make my days brighter tho with all the chosen blindness for your chosen side. My dad sad when dealing with a fool, just give him enough time and he will reveal himself to all. It is funny as hell watching this forum. Open Hipocrisy is proof that you are intellectually defective at some level.  

If you can see that Trump saying "Save the Steal," as stupid as it was, for a mere FEW WEEKS can poison the minds of his followers, but cant see that 100s of Media People and Democrat Pols screaming:
Russians!!!
Collusion!!!
Impeachment!!!!
Traitor!!!
ForFOUR YEARS PLUS didnt do the same thing and poison the minds of the Democrats in this Nation then you are as ******* dumb as they come.

[DKW 86 7,419]

That facepalm from Mr Myopic was worth a chortle just now. 

[Leftfield 2,595]

48 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

You mean like:
"Stolen Election" (2016)
RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!RRRUUSSSSSSIIIAAANNNSSS!!!!!!!
Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!Collusion!!!
Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!Impeachment!!!
Traitor!

Is that what you mean? It is truly comical the amount of myopic thinking going on here with the partisan hacks on both sides. 
Yall do make my days brighter tho with all the chosen blindness for your chosen side. My dad sad when dealing with a fool, just give him enough time and he will reveal himself to all. It is funny as hell watching this forum. Open Hipocrisy is proof that you are intellectually defective at some level.  

If you can see that Trump saying "Save the Steal," as stupid as it was, for a mere FEW WEEKS can poison the minds of his followers, but cant see that 100s of Media People and Democrat Pols screaming:
Russians!!!
Collusion!!!
Impeachment!!!!
Traitor!!!
ForFOUR YEARS PLUS didnt do the same thing and poison the minds of the Democrats in this Nation then you are as ******* dumb as they come.

Always glad to see an unhinged post from you, especially when you're "taking a break."

Let's see, you called me myopic, a partisan hack, blind, a fool, intellectually defective (right after misspelling hypocrite), and f*****g dumb as they come. Meanwhile you decline to address the point I made except to imply I'm wrong because I don't agree with you that Democrats (right now) are as bad as Republicans. A brilliant, reasoned post that echoes 80% of what you put on this board. A pity you don't see the irony of your quoting what your father said to you.

And when the people whipped into a frenzy about Russian collusion attack the Capitol, feel free to chime back in.

Enjoy your beautiful Sunday! 

 

[Grumps 3,704]

10 hours ago, AU9377 said:

I believe that an angry mob of people gathered for a common purpose acted in an attempt to stop the certification of an election in this country.  That is as anti American as it gets.

You do realize that there is a HUGE difference between an insurrection and "an angry mob of people gathered for a common purpose acting in an attempt to stop the certification of an election in this country", don't you? People have a right to act anti-American!

[AU9377 4,929]

49 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

That facepalm from Mr Myopic was worth a chortle just now. 

People will never agree on everything, but the amount of whataboutism(newly minted word) displayed by your other post is extreme.  That said, lets just confirm something.  You would have no problem with Joe Biden picking up the phone and asking the South Korean government to investigate Donald Trump, his daughter and son in law, and to announce those investigations in a manner that would damage their future political viability?  In exchange for doing this, Biden could pledge to increase aid to South Korea and warn that if it did not occur that aid would be withheld.  He could even threaten to remove American troops from the North Korean border.  Is that acceptable?  As someone that voted for Biden, it would not be acceptable to me.  However, you seem to have justified Trump's actions with regard to Ukraine and likely made villains of those in the State Dept and NSA that brought those actions to the attention of the American people.