For those under the impression that we are overflowing with talent

[mcdover 0]

Look at the talent on the roster, not just the ones playing. Why isn't the talent on campus now being coached up? It's not that we're losing, it's the way we're losing. We just got embarrassed by a perrenial SEC bottom feeder. We got blown out by all our rivals last year. We've had a lousy defense for 3 years, heading into the 4th. This team under Chizik isn't improving, if anything, it's regressing. Poorly coached, poorly prepared, and thoroughly uncompetitive.

It's all Roof's fault.

Did I miss the sarcasm? How is it Roof's fault?

Seems to be a running theme with a lot of posters here. Thought I would go ahead and get it out of the way.

[Raven_tiger 5]

It's talent across the board that people refer to, not just one or two positions. 3 highly ranked classes in a row no matter how ya slice it.

Yes, and that's why I took the time to point out that they're wrong. We don't have talent across the board. How can we have so little star power in the back 7 on D, yet have "talent across the board"??? How can we have exactly one serviceable QB but have "talent across the board" on O? Why don't you take some time, do some research, and find out how many recruits are currently contributing from those highly ranked classes?

Currently contributing? Why don't you re-read my post. Not sure why you think I need to do research on finding out how many recruits are currently contributing, as I made no such mention of the sort either way. What I clearly did say was simply that we've had 3 highly ranked classes in a row, period, and that is the overall talent level people are referring to when questioning why players aren't playing up to their expected capacity, i.e. questioning the coaching once players arrive. Just for fun though, I did a cursory review of the past 3 classes and found that we have signed 77 players overall, with the breakdown as follows:

5*- 4

4*- 39

3*- 31

2*- 3

You are refusing to see the forest for the trees, b/c that makes it easier for you to hold to the incorrect assumption that we have the same talent as LSU/UGA/uat. If we sign the top 5 QBs and the top 5 RBs in 2013, we will have a top 5 ranked class overall, and will have done very little towards making AU a better football team. Of those four fives stars you mentioned, two are gone, one is just coming back from leukemia, and one has not made it onto the field yet, ostensibly b/c he isn't ready mentally, so their are ZERO five star players on the field of us right now. ZERO. Now look at the top rated four star players that aren't contributing:

Erick Mack: Bystander at a shooting, may not come back to football

Roszell Gayden: Couldn't cut the mustard

Antonio Goodwin: Criminal, in jail.

J. Bonomolo: Just never became a great player

* L. Owens: Starting to conbtribute a now after a failed tryout at LB last year

J. Richardson: Never got over the hump with his grades. Sad b/c he was a good player

Erique Florence: Injuries keeping him off the field

C. Westerman: Supposedly not ready mentally, which seems crazy to me

R. Therezie: was playing with the ones, got hurt, now wants to switch from his recruited DB position to RB

J. Rose: thrown off the team

?? has Jaylon Denson played for us other than special teams?

== From here forward is last years class, so you wouldn't expect that many to be participating ==

S. Callahan: Isn't in the two deep

? C. Mckinzy: on the two deep, but I don't see any participation stats for him

J. Holsey; not on the two deep

Jovon Robinson: Gone, possibly for good, due to Memphis area shenanigans

* Kozan: On the two deep, but I don't think he has played. Word is he is pushing, though

T. Nero: hasn't played, listed at third string

?? Has Patrick Miller been in the game? He is supposedly pushing for time ??

J. Mitchel: hasn't played

So that's nearly half of the four stars, and all of the five stars who are not in the rotation right now. Why is this hard to understand? Class rankings DO NOT DETERMINE if you are filling needs, and they don't take into account future injuries, bad decisions, or bad luck. The reason you need to do research is because you keep saying "we had three top ten recruiting classes in a row, so we have the talent", which is NOT true. We have lost a LOT of that talent, and the bulk of the 2012 class hasn't made it onto the field yet (which is not unusual). We have a defensive backfield made up almost entirely of two and three star players, and we really don't have a backup to KF right now. Don't look at stupid composite class rankings to determine where we should be, look at the actual players that are STILL AT AU, and that are in a position to contribute.

There is absolutely no reason why we shouldnt be able to recruit players of the same quality as LSU/UAt, especially 2 years removed from a MNC. It seems to me that the luster of 2010 season will be lost as the coaches have seemingly failed to capitlize with recruiting as a whole.

[PigskinPat 2,582]

I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this thread. Are you defending the coaches or are you not? The people who are bringing up recruiting rankings are doing so because they are not happy with the fact that our "highly recruited" players have for the most part shown little to no improvement. This is a coaching blunder no matter how you look at it.

Exactly. This guy ranting on and on is giving me a headache. I cant figure out what he's trying to prove that everyone doesnt already know. Our current players aren't producing? Yeah pal, i've seen the games and I get that. Ha!!

I can't figure out why it's hard to read a title in a post around here. I clearly stated that my original post was in response to the numerous people claiming that b/c we've had 3 top ten classes in a row, we're playing with the same level of (as ranked by the "star givers") talent as some of the other top SEC schools. We're not. I'm neither defending nor attacking the coaches. I'm pointing out an actual fact. Sorry if those make your head hurt.

Do you feel we're playing with enough talent that we should have beaten MSU?

[PigskinPat 2,582]

Good analysis. One point is that after a year in college, the talent level of most 3* players is coached up to the level of a 4* coming out of HS, at a minimum. So I guess the next question about your OP analysis is obvious. Why ? Why do we not have top talent on the field ? It is either recruiting or coaching is it not ?

We are getting some very highly ranked classes, 3 top 10 classes in a row, so it cant be that. It could be selection of which 4 and 5*s we take, that is possible. That would be part of the selection and analysis process in recruiting. So if we use your assumption, that we do not have top talent on the field, would that not leave coaching up the talent ?

A lot of it is attrition and bad luck. Cam & Dyer were five stars. Both are gone. We've lost a bucket full of four star OL over that last couple of years, and Shon was fighting for his health, which took a five star out of the rotation. We really haven't recruited that well at LB, and at DB we have a four star hurt, a four star playing RB now, and a four star that left the team.

Having a top ten class doesn't mean that your are filling needs or shoring up weaknesses. We could sign all of the top ten RBs and have a number one class, but it wouldn't help us fill needs that much, and it wouldn't protect us from bad luck, injuries, etc.

I don't necessarily agree with your passages I underlined above but that is not important. If you believe that then why is that the case ? What is the ultimate cause of this ? Who is responsible for it ? You have listed things both in your OP and this post that you believe to be the current situation (the effect) but I am not sure you have taken the final step and given us the why (the ultimate cause).

I don't really have an ultimate cause to give. I was just pointing out that we *don't* have a lot of high profile recruits on the field for us right now. I broke down in another response on this thread where some of those players have gone. We've had some bad apples that either left or got arrested, we've had some bad injury luck that has pushed some players out, and honestly, I can't imagine why Westerman and Frost haven't been given a shot yet.

As for having a top ten class not meaning your filling your needs, think of it this way: If, in 2013, we signed the top 8 OTs, the top 8 WRs, and the top 8 DEs, we would have the number one class in the nation most likely. We would also not have a backup QB behind KF, we would still have a defensive backfield made up of mostly two and three star players, and we would likely only have on highly regarded LB on the team. Filling needs is about signing and retaining the guys that fill in weak spots on your team. If we had been doing that, you would be able to point out all of the four star talent at DB and LB right now. You would be talking about KF's highly recruited backup getting a shot. We would be wondering if Jovon Robinson would be pushing Dyer for playing time this year. Sadly, even at a position where we have recruited VERY well, bad luck has hurt us. I can't count the number of highly regarded OL that we have lost over the last few years.

Well obviously there is a problem somewhere. Retaining the talent you bring in is part of a coach's job, developing the players you have regardless of the "star" ranking the kid had coming out of highschool is part of a coach's job, hiring a staff of position coaches that can recruit as well as develope the players is part of a coach's job, implimenting an offensive and defensive scheme for the program so that the team has an identity is part of a coach's job. It's a big job, that's why they get paid the big bucks.

Excellent post!!

[AuburnSpider 2]

3 solid recruiting opportunities/yrs. Where are we 4 yrs in. Rebuilding, AGAIN.

[AUbritt 611]

3 solid recruiting opportunities/yrs. Where are we 4 yrs in. Rebuilding, AGAIN.

Spidey, what's up? Free speech is not what earns someone the dreaded 'hater' tag, as you call it. It's saying negative thing after negative thing that brands you a hater. You do it to yourself.

Do you want to win the game against LaMo? Or would you rather have something to complain about?

[AuburnSpider 2]

Just a clear observation. I have season tickets and will be in mine in sec 46 come satday. Thats the way ol Leonard use to say Saturday. Ever head of Leonard?

[Auburn20041345162806 0]

Most of the people yelling about having talent are saying that we aren't doing anything with it once it gets here. Your lists omits guys that aren't in rotations or sign and leave, get kicked off and so on. They coaches have to play who they think is best but if you are looking at incoming talent versus on field product you have to account for some that didn't end up in the final product. Owens changed positions at lb, whites career ended, the curry kid transferred , rose transferred, RT is now a running back, Florence isn't in the two deep. I sure you'll find some of the missing stars there. I don't really care for this arguement because it doesn't matter what a recruiting service says its what your coach sees when you are out there. These coaches play who they think can win and like any coaching change some guys are getting lost in the shuffle.

[aupops2 9]

I'm gonna support the OP and the content of his comments in this thread. It is simple what his intentions are, and that is to point out that our recruiting classes, after great attrition, have not resulted in the depth and talent that we have assumed we have. Because we have questioned his premise, he has been required to enforce that premise with great detail. In summary, we recruited well, lost many, particularly in a few key positions, and the product on the field reflects that. We are not deep in talent, and we are more than one recruiting class away from parity with the big boys. Someone stated in another thread, with a new offensive and defensive scheme, it's like we're in year one.

[AUbritt 611]

I'm gonna support the OP and the content of his comments in this thread. It is simple what his intentions are, and that is to point out that our recruiting classes, after great attrition, have not resulted in the depth and talent that we have assumed we have. Because we have questioned his premise, he has been required to enforce that premise with great detail. In summary, we recruited well, lost many, particularly in a few key positions, and the product on the field reflects that. We are not deep in talent, and we are more than one recruiting class away from parity with the big boys. Someone stated in another thread, with a new offensive and defensive scheme, it's like we're in year one.

Yep.

[AUTigergrad08 617]

Also, do a rundown of the offense.

Off the top of my head:

G. Rob 4*-5* depending on site

Frazier 4*-5* depending on site

Sullen 3*

Dismukes 4* #1 center

Slade 2*

Lutz 4*

Omac 4*-5* depending on site

Blake 4*

Reed 4*-5* depending on site

Bray 4*

Prosch 3* All American

Plays:

Mason 4*

Blakeley 4*-5* depending on site

Coates 3*-4* depending on site

Denson 3*-4* depending on site

Fulse 4*

Uzzy 4*

LOOKS LIKE ALOT OF TALENT TO ME!

Doesn't mean anything if we can't the ball to the WRs or playmakers, right?

[IronMan70 3,277]

The view that there is not a lot of elite talent on this team is just not the case. Even AFTER the attrition that people site to try to make that case, the fact remains that the 2012 Auburn Football team STILL has 43 players presently on the team that were ranked at a 4* or higher coming out of HS. That is a very high ratio when you consider that AU has appx 80 players on scholarship. Most of those players came from the last three Top 10 recruiting classes.

That 43 number doesn't even include the following 9 players that were rated 3* or less by Rivals coming out of HS.

1.Prosch

2.Slade

3.Blackson

4.Ford

5.McNeal

6.Sullen

7.Bates

8.Evans

9.Stallworth

Here is a link to the list of the Rivals rankings for the current players. I did not count Jovon in the 43.

http://auburn.rivals...884&CID=1392182

[doc4aday 1,887]

We all look for reasons as to why things are not going as well as think it should. I am no different than any fan out there. I think the ship can be somewhat righted with a nice win this coming Saturday. THe following Saturday is big no matter how you slice it. Lsu will be a huge challenge as we all know. I really thought that the hiring of Loeffler would put us on a more level playing field. The opposite unfortunately has occured so far this season. I am not so sure that leaving the spread offense for the power running game will improve our chances of developing a grind it out team that can go blow to blow with all of the SEC powerhouses. I know we are only 2 games into the season, and the offense may very well start hitting on all cylinders. You know, there is a finite number of offensive plays from pee-wwe football all of the way to the NFL. This is where a great OC can roll the dice and out guess what the defense is planning to do to stop you. You know, I am sure that many of you including myself that spent a little time just to see how well Temple did in 2011 when SL was the OC there. The running game was very good there, but the passing game and total offense was rather poor. Maybe this is carrying over to us from what SL did last year. I do think 100% that CGC will stay with SL for the entire season regardless of how good or how bad of an OC that SL turns out to be. I do think though that we have the right man as DC and this will be proven as we get further into the season through the end. It is the OC position that I am starting to have serious doubts.

WDE

Doc Sr.

[jvilletiger 0]

Also, do a rundown of the offense.

Off the top of my head:

G. Rob 4*-5* depending on site

Frazier 4*-5* depending on site

Sullen 3*

Dismukes 4* #1 center

Slade 2*

Lutz 4*

Omac 4*-5* depending on site

Blake 4*

Reed 4*-5* depending on site

Bray 4*

Prosch 3* All American

Plays:

Mason 4*

Blakeley 4*-5* depending on site

Coates 3*-4* depending on site

Denson 3*-4* depending on site

Fulse 4*

Uzzy 4*

LOOKS LIKE ALOT OF TALENT TO ME!

Doesn't mean anything if we can't the ball to the WRs or playmakers, right?

Right! That was my rebuttal to this thread. Anyone that says we aren't loaded with talent is naive. The talent's there. It just needs a field General, and some coaching...