Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind the NSA surveillance revelations

[ToomersRevenge 284]

So you're asking me to believe that an agency designed 100% to spy and intercept messages, which has a history of warrantless wiretapping, is only collecting tons of metadata for future analytical purposes?

I mean the government doesn't exactly have a history of actually having the people's best interests in mind. It has ITS best interests in mind. Sometimes those are the same, and sometimes they're not.

Is this @ Homer?

Yes.

[TexasTiger 13,556]

Homer, I disagree to an extent. The FISA court has rarely denied ANY request for permission or warrant to do anything. . Lack of oversight of that bothers me, greatly.

Rarely to the point of being effectually non-existent. There are only about 10-11 denials vs 20,000 or more approvals of such requests....that we know of. That's a rubber stamp. Not to mention, since it's in secret, the companies in question don't even have the opportunity to present to the judge why the request is unreasonable. And if they do deny the request, guess who the only part able to appeal the ruling is? The same government agency that requested it.

So what system do you propose?

[DKW 86 7,726]

Go read my post about Chris Hayes. Snowden pretty much lays waste to the crapola "no wiretapping" or "wiretapping only after subpoena bullcrap."

Folks, you are living with your head in the sand if you think this hasnt gotten massively out of hand.

CANNOT WAIT TO HEAR WHAT THE STUFF HE STILL HAS HIDDEN HAS INSIDE OF IT.

Just a thought, but with Snowden from Hawaii, i wonder if he caught the Administration emailing some bad stuff while on one their many vacations out there. Snowden says in the interview all he would have needed "is a private email for President Obama." Sounded like a threat to me.

[telling tiger 156]

Wow, yeah , no speculation there, lol. Greenwald says he has some more articles in the works POTENTIALLY. If you have some questions about one, why not the other? Greenwald has had more publicity in one week than he has had in a lifetime. Everyone has a motive, that includes Greenwald. Let's see what he has before we fit our dislikes to "proof" that may or may not be there, lol. Talk on anyone's part is cheap, proof is in the reality, that will or will not be exposed when anything further comes out. Some elements of REALITY are bad enough, overwrought hyperbole and speculation, is nothing but overwrought and speculation.

[TexasTiger 13,556]

Wow, yeah , no speculation there, lol. Greenwald says he has some more articles in the works POTENTIALLY. If you have some questions about one, why not the other? Greenwald has had more publicity in one week than he has had in a lifetime. Everyone has a motive, that includes Greenwald. Let's see what he has before we fit our dislikes to "proof" that may or may not be there, lol. Talk on anyone's part is cheap, proof is in the reality, that will or will not be exposed when anything further comes out. Some elements of REALITY are bad enough, overwrought hyperbole and speculation, is nothing but overwrought and speculation.

Yep.

[TexasTiger 13,556]

So this guy is considering asylum in Russia because he values freedom and doesn't like intrusive governments.

[autigeremt 6,970]

So this guy is considering asylum in Russia because he values freedom and doesn't like intrusive governments.

Freedom in Russia may be better than detention in the US.

[homersapien 11,812]

Interesting, to say the least. http://www.aclu.org/...-spying-program

For what it's worth, I am a huge supporter of ACLU.

Just goes to show you this is a debate worth having.

[homersapien 11,812]

I don't think people are really evaluating the risk/reward trade-off here. 9/11 was very effective symbolism but the potential to do some "real" damage is very real.

Imagine a truckload-size "dirty" bomb exploding up-wind of your city/metropolitan area. Would we be hearing the same outrage about collecting meta data then? Forget about the constitutional controls.

[TitanTiger 20,708]

I think the problem you're hearing is that we don't trust our government to just do what they claim they're doing. It's a fundamental difference of understanding of human nature.

[TexasTiger 13,556]

I think the problem you're hearing is that we don't trust our government to just do what they claim they're doing. It's a fundamental difference of understanding of human nature.

I don't trust them to do that either. I'm just withholding judgement until I know more, however, and not assuming every assertion or perceived intrusion is true.

[homersapien 11,812]

I think the problem you're hearing is that we don't trust our government to just do what they claim they're doing. It's a fundamental difference of understanding of human nature.

But "human nature' apparently includes people who would do exactly what I said, if they could pull it off. So how do you stop them?

[TitanTiger 20,708]

I think the problem you're hearing is that we don't trust our government to just do what they claim they're doing. It's a fundamental difference of understanding of human nature.

But "human nature' apparently includes people who would do exactly what I said, if they could pull it off. So how do you stop them?

That's not a question I could give a detailed answer to. What you don't do is ignore the Constitution.

[telling tiger 156]

There is a balance, we just have to constantly find a new one. It isn't static, emerging technology changes that almost daily. The NSA and other agencies will also have access to things we've never heard of. The have entire divisions that work to develop them as they perceive it to be needed. With all the listening capability in the world, we still had 9/11, it still took a long time to find and dispose of OBL and US citizens in Boston made bombs and used them to attack. Pervasive surveillance techniques, huh? We don't want abuses, this is one chance we have to be in a current and needed discussion. I hope it isn't screwed up with partisan stupidity. Just a matter of time. Quite likely, to already have happened.

[AU64 10,122]

We hear the president say that we need good congressional oversight and then administration representatives go before Congress and tell lies right and left....and people are supposed to trust their government? There is nothing in the DNA of a government employee that automatically makes that person trust-worthy and most of the day to day stuff is run by middle level employees....I mean, look at Snowden...he had access to all that stuff and there are probably thousands of "Snowdens" who have their own personal views about what they are able to see. And as for what Nixon or any previous president did, the technology has changed dramatically the past few years because of the money put forward to improve snooping techniques....so the excuse that Bush or Nixon did it too is just BS. They never had the technology to do (against the public at large) what the current NSA employees are able to do.....or what they will be able to do another year or two from now. This technology is still in its infancy and government snooping is only going to increase unless people demand otherwise.

[telling tiger 156]

Sooooooooooo, it is Obama's fault because the NSA used the available tech to them at the time? It is not Nixon's fault because he wiretapped and recorded and it was the tech available to him at the time? It was not Bush's fault because he used the tech available to him at the time? OK, yeah I get it lol.

[telling tiger 156]

Returning to the regularly scheduled programming, so does additional info change minds about Snowdon, or is it the work of US intelligence? lol http://www.businessinsider.com/snowden-us-has-been-hacking-china-2013-6

[TitanTiger 20,708]

I think he's desperate to get HK on his side and keep them from handing him over to the US. I don't know that it changes my mind about anything he's said.

[telling tiger 156]

The only exceptions to our extradition treaties with HK are politically based. If he feels that is his last chance, he is likely to throw down a few more cards he is holding if he has any, imo.

[AU64 10,122]

Sooooooooooo, it is Obama's fault because the NSA used the available tech to them at the time? It is not Nixon's fault because he wiretapped and recorded and it was the tech available to him at the time? It was not Bush's fault because he used the tech available to him at the time? OK, yeah I get it lol.

Not letting anyone off and not justifying what they did. I was just noting that as the technological capability increases, the danger and potential for abuse of the public at large increases. What was done in the past is history....what's being done now and will be done in the future is what worries me. I thought Obama was in charge of this administration but apparently not....and Holder does not know anything about snooping on the media and the NSA and IRS leadership lies about what they are doing. So who do we hold accountable for now....not the past ?

[ToomersRevenge 284]

Returning to the regularly scheduled programming, so does additional info change minds about Snowdon, or is it the work of US intelligence? lol http://www.businessi...ng-china-2013-6

This quote isn't exactly a revelation. China has been hacking the US for years, and are very good at it. It's comforting to know that we're playing the game back as well as we can.

[telling tiger 156]

Fully aware of it and simply stating his usage of it. A person claiming he is whistleblowing is sitting in HK, telling the HK and Chinese governments "we" are hacking them while presumably showing them doc's to support his claim. I'm not making a claim of "holding him responsible for it", I'm asking what some think about it.

[telling tiger 156]

Tech implications are serious concerns in multiple areas. You can find research that debunks this theory and research that strongly supports it. Even the potential, is a real concern. http://thenextweb.com/asia/2012/05/28/researchers-find-vulnerability-in-chinese-chips-used-by-us-army/

[AU64 10,122]

Re Snowden....I don't know what to think about his claims...he was an outside contractor and I have to wonder why/how he got the access he claims he had. As for hacking China....I can't believe that is a surprise to anyone....including China. It's possible that most of what this guy claims to "know" he found out on the internet since there is generally nothing from him that hasn't been rumored or speculated elsewhere. He has definitely forced the issue into the open which is not where NSA wanted it to go....but the terrorists probably know more about what the US is doing in the way of data mining than the typical low information voter in the US who is more interested in what Bieber or Beyoncé are up to. For me the scary part is that so many people like Snowden have access to the data.....and can potentially use it for their own purposes.

[TitanTiger 20,708]

Re Snowden....I don't know what to think about his claims...he was an outside contractor and I have to wonder why/how he got the access he claims he had.

Contractors have all sorts of access depending on their security clearance level and what projects they work on. This is not in any way unusual.

As for hacking China....I can't believe that is a surprise to anyone....including China. It's possible that most of what this guy claims to "know" he found out on the internet since there is generally nothing from him that hasn't been rumored or speculated elsewhere. He has definitely forced the issue into the open which is not where NSA wanted it to go....but the terrorists probably know more about what the US is doing in the way of data mining than the typical low information voter in the US who is more interested in what Bieber or Beyoncé are up to. For me the scary part is that so many people like Snowden have access to the data.....and can potentially use it for their own purposes.

Judging by the reaction by the NSA, I'd say he isn't "claiming" anything. He actually knows what he's talking about.