FSU Under Federal Investigation for Handling of Winston Case

[cooltigger21 0]

Hell, toxicology reports would prove or disprove your theory. Doesn't even take a lot of investigation to support that claim or rule it out.

if i remember correctly they did a half ars toxicology test or waited too long.

Both parties got a raw deal out of this. Everyone in the TPD that was involved with this case ought to be demoted at the least if not fired.

The girl will likely file a civil suit against JW at some point. I am not certain if a suit is possible against the police department and the DA. I have heard some people say that they are essentially immune.

[Auburn4Winners 0]

If you guys knew how easy it is to get your hands on a bunch of date rape drugs, you'd be shocked. Also if you ever experienced the effects of taking it, you'd understand why doing that to someone is absolutely as cruel as physically forcing yourself on them. Somebody slipped me one in Panama City last year and I have no idea what happened after. I was found walking down the road about 2 miles from where I was hanging out with friends at 4:30am.. and no I wasn't just really drunk. Unfortunately, college kids think it's funny and don't understand the severity of it.

[mcgufcm 4,096]

alexava, I vaguely recall reading something to that effect. That she wasn't tested until the next day or something like that. I have no idea how long that stuff stays in your system, but that was kind of my point. All they had to do was make a half-decent effort, and most lingering questions would have answers.

I don't agree that most of us would've been charged. DAs don't like to charge people when they don't have evidence for a conviction. It wastes time and resources, and it affects their conviction rate, which most places keep track of. Given the evidence presented, I never thought they had enough to charge him because it wasn't close to sufficient for a conviction.

The better question, to me, was why the evidence collection was so shoddy. I doubt there's enough to overcome qualified immunity (which the alleged victim would have to do in order to sue any officer or investigator in their personal capacity), and I don't know enough about Florida sovereign immunity to speculate. She may file against TPD and the officers. I'm just generally skeptical about the success of such efforts.

[AUcivE09 582]

alexava, I vaguely recall reading something to that effect. That she wasn't tested until the next day or something like that. I have no idea how long that stuff stays in your system, but that was kind of my point. All they had to do was make a half-decent effort, and most lingering questions would have answers.

I don't agree that most of us would've been charged. DAs don't like to charge people when they don't have evidence for a conviction. It wastes time and resources, and it affects their conviction rate, which most places keep track of. Given the evidence presented, I never thought they had enough to charge him because it wasn't close to sufficient for a conviction.

The better question, to me, was why the evidence collection was so shoddy. I doubt there's enough to overcome qualified immunity (which the alleged victim would have to do in order to sue any officer or investigator in their personal capacity), and I don't know enough about Florida sovereign immunity to speculate. She may file against TPD and the officers. I'm just generally skeptical about the success of such efforts.

I can go along with what you are saying about we may not have been charged - it is just the way they went about the case that seemed to be along the lines of "lets get throught the ACC championship first". Kind of like they were scared of what the evidence may suggest, and as it turns out, they could have just gone about business as usual and he would have still been eligible. Doesn't take much to see the case got special treatment.

[mcgufcm 4,096]

Oh it was awful, and the back-slapping presser the DA had to announce that charges would not be filed was stomach turning. If I were a victim, that kind of stuff would make me think twice about reporting. As a guy with one daughter and another girl on the way, it was gross.

[alexava 6,973]

alexava, I vaguely recall reading something to that effect. That she wasn't tested until the next day or something like that. I have no idea how long that stuff stays in your system, but that was kind of my point. All they had to do was make a half-decent effort, and most lingering questions would have answers.

I don't agree that most of us would've been charged. DAs don't like to charge people when they don't have evidence for a conviction. It wastes time and resources, and it affects their conviction rate, which most places keep track of. Given the evidence presented, I never thought they had enough to charge him because it wasn't close to sufficient for a conviction.

The better question, to me, was why the evidence collection was so shoddy. I doubt there's enough to overcome qualified immunity (which the alleged victim would have to do in order to sue any officer or investigator in their personal capacity), and I don't know enough about Florida sovereign immunity to speculate. She may file against TPD and the officers. I'm just generally skeptical about the success of such efforts.

I can go along with what you are saying about we may not have been charged - it is just the way they went about the case that seemed to be along the lines of "lets get throught the ACC championship first". Kind of like they were scared of what the evidence may suggest, and as it turns out, they could have just gone about business as usual and he would have still been eligible. Doesn't take much to see the case got special treatment.

i think the ball was dropped a long time before theACC cg. Really way before the season started. I have a hard time believing he got preferential treatment either. IMO if mistakes were made, it was incompetence not cover up. I doubt a bunch of grown men would overlook rape for a football player who has yet to see the field.

[cptau 169]

alexava, I vaguely recall reading something to that effect. That she wasn't tested until the next day or something like that. I have no idea how long that stuff stays in your system, but that was kind of my point. All they had to do was make a half-decent effort, and most lingering questions would have answers.

I don't agree that most of us would've been charged. DAs don't like to charge people when they don't have evidence for a conviction. It wastes time and resources, and it affects their conviction rate, which most places keep track of. Given the evidence presented, I never thought they had enough to charge him because it wasn't close to sufficient for a conviction.

The better question, to me, was why the evidence collection was so shoddy. I doubt there's enough to overcome qualified immunity (which the alleged victim would have to do in order to sue any officer or investigator in their personal capacity), and I don't know enough about Florida sovereign immunity to speculate. She may file against TPD and the officers. I'm just generally skeptical about the success of such efforts.

I can go along with what you are saying about we may not have been charged - it is just the way they went about the case that seemed to be along the lines of "lets get throught the ACC championship first". Kind of like they were scared of what the evidence may suggest, and as it turns out, they could have just gone about business as usual and he would have still been eligible. Doesn't take much to see the case got special treatment.

i think the ball was dropped a long time before theACC cg. Really way before the season started. I have a hard time believing he got preferential treatment either. IMO if mistakes were made, it was incompetence not cover up. I doubt a bunch of grown men would overlook rape for a football player who has yet to see the field.

This could be business as usually for treatment of cases involving FSU players.

As was said earlier FSU could face fines up to and including federal funding because of how they handled the investigation. That's a heavy price for having a good football team. But even Penn St didn't lose federal funding.

[quietfan 233]

So it's fair to say no one on this site is "beyond a reasonable doubt" convinced he's guilty. Just looking at the comments, I don't even see a "preponderance of the evidence" consensus.

Whoever said TPD didn't do anyone any favors was spot on. They butchered this investigation, even if there was spotty evidence on which to base the investigation. I never thought there was enough to charge him, but geez, you have to give it a hard look.

This thing is a bad penny. Just keeps turning up.

Yep. The ONLY thing that makes him look guilty is the appearance that the police were trying to protect him.

well that.... and his absolute refusal to cooperate with the investigation past his forced participation. He has literally said as little as he possibly can.

...or in other words, he exercised his constitutional right to remain silent.

I won't comment on this particular case because I know nothing about the details. But exercising one's Fifth Amendment rights should never be taken as an indication of guilt any more than refusing to include the phrase "under God" when saying the Pledge of Allegiance (or refusing to pledge at all) under 1st Amendment freedoms should be taken as a sign of atheism or diminished allegiance to our country. If taking the Fifth implies guilt or leads to a presumption of guilt, then our Fifth Amendment rights become meaningless.

[alexava 6,973]

" If taking the Fifth implies guilt or leads to a presumption of guilt, then our Fifth Amendment rights become meaningless." How it is presumed or what it implies cannot be controlled by a law. In that sense, 5th Amendment rights are meaningless.

[mcgufcm 4,096]

Well, that's not entirely true. A jury cannot presume guilt based on failure to testify, and the law essentially bars the prosecution from even implying that a failure to speak implies guilt. If they do, it can be grounds for a mistrial. So in the context of the courtroom, the law can control how the omission is used.

[alexava 6,973]

The law can't control what is in the mind of a juror, much less public opinion. That was my point.

[ShocksMyBrain 9,366]

Long read:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/16/sports/errors-in-inquiry-on-rape-allegations-against-fsu-jamies-winston.html?_r=0

[cptau 169]

It is very ironic that the then president of FSU is now at Penn State. I'm surprised they took him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/17/penn-state-new-president_n_4805165.html

In Barron, Penn State is getting an administrator who understands just how important athletic success is to a university.

"I really want successful athletic programs because it's the front door. It's absolutely the front door to your university," he was quoted as saying by USA Today in June 2013.

Like Penn State, FSU has recently dealt with a football scandal.

Last fall, redshirt quarterback Jameis Winston became one of the biggest attractions in college football, winning the Heisman trophy and leading the Seminoles to the national title.

But in November, a year-old sexual assault complaint against Winston became public and was passed along by Tallahassee police to the Florida state attorney's office for a full investigation. A Florida State student claims Winston raped her. Winston's attorney has said the sex was consensual. Prosecutors did not find enough evidence to charge him with a crime and the case was closed Dec. 5, two days before the Atlantic Coast Conference championship game.

Barron had cautioned against a rush to judgment in the case. And, after no charges were to be filed, he issued a strong statement.

"Recent weeks have provided a painful lesson, as we have witnessed harmful speculation and inappropriate conjecture about this situation and the individuals involved. As a result, we have all been hurt," Barron said. "A respect for the principle of due process is essential to the integrity of our community. Our commitment to each and every one of our students is unwavering and will remain our priority."

[keesler 5,924]

Long read:

http://www.nytimes.c...nston.html?_r=0

Good read, and gets a little deeper into Mr. Winston's tendancies. Does the guy like rough sex? Sounds like he took it too far with more than one young lady and the authorities & university turned a blind eye to the issue.

[shirley4au9 0]

I don't know if Winston is guilty or not. I know from personal experience, it happens on Auburn's campus. Our nightmare began 2003, Friday night/early Saturday before the Southern California game. We received the dreaded telephone call ALL parents fear receiving. Our daughter was at East Alabama Medical Center. She had been drugged and was found by her friends, placed by the trash dumpster at Wendy's on Magnolia. She was not breathing. Her potassium bottomed out. She was given a potassium drip and by the time we arrived she was awake, but incoherent. We were and are happy she survived that night. Her nurse commented, "She's the first of the season. We get these cases all the time." I would love to say that was the end of our nightmare. Two weeks later, we were advised she was in renal failure. She has fought a good fight for 11 years come August. Transplant, dialysis (Hemo and peratenal ). Surgeries, more than I can count. Her veins have collapsed. She's now on Hospice. Please pray for our family as we continue this horrific journey. Auburn police/campus police were useless. Their response, "IT HAPPENS". WHT? My point, teach your sons to respect young ladies and your daughters to NEVER accept an open container from ANYONE. Whether prank or evil, it can and does destroy lives. Thank you for you time.

[3rdgeneration 6,469]

God bless you and your daughter. I am horrified that this could happen to any young lady. I will keep her in my prayers. The people who do these kinds of things should be prosecuted to the fullest. The police should never turn a blind eye to it. I feel like they do that way to often, and that they did it in Jameis Winston's case as well. He may or may not be guilty, but I have no doubt that he got "special" treatment.

[shirley4au9 0]

I appreciate your comment. We never found the guy. She was at a fraternity house, dancing with someone she met and was thirsty. He offered her some water, and that's the last she remembers. Yes, she had been drilled not to accept opened containers, but she saw, what she thought was him opening the bottle in front of her. The fraternity house isn't to blame, Auburn isn't to blame. The guy giving her the water is responsible. I just didn't like the way it was handled.

[cptau 169]

This is terrible, I'm feel so sorry for you and your daughter.

The nurse should never have made that comment to you.

[WarEagle84 0]

I'm very sorry, shirley, for your and your daughter's pain. I am very sorry we live in a society where this type of behavior is tolerated. I wish I had a way to fix it so no family would ever again have to endure what yours has. God bless you.

[JBiGGiE 2,488]

Long read:

http://www.nytimes.c...nston.html?_r=0

Man... the further I read this and more the media keeps spotlighting him the more I don't see Jameis Winston the lovable athlete with swagger, I see a punk who thinks his own **** don't stink because he was a hot-shot since high school.

[eagle76 1]

Almost all of the focus is on the legal issues surrounding this case. Very little if anything at all has been mentioned about the moral and character issues of jw. Here is a guy that picks up a woman, takes her back to a room, has sex, allows on-lookers, has the event video'd. And I think that I have read that this is not the first of this type episode with jw either. If this is his mo, then it is only time before his adventures cost him.

[WarEagle84 0]

Here's another angle on the story:

Attorney wants halted FSU probe in Jameis Winston case to continue

A story that both Jameis Winston and Florida State would prefer to quickly fade away simply won’t.

The attorney for the alleged victim who claimed she was raped by the Florida State quarterback in December of 2012 told USA Today that the university has halted its Title IX investigation into the case. The reason the probe is allegedly at a standstill? The attorney, Blaine Kerr, says it’s because Winston refuses to cooperate with the university.

“The university took the position that since he refused to respond to questions, they could not make any Title IX findings,” Kerr said according to the paper. “We have objected to that as impermissible reason to delay or terminate a Title IX sexual assault investigation because that would permit any charged party to thwart an investigation simply by refusing to answer questions.”

The paper went on to write that Kerr “wrote a letter to FSU earlier this month stating his objections to their investigation and calling for Winston to be charged under the school’s code of conduct policy.”

One law expert was baffled that the university would drop what’s a federally-mandated investigation simply because the accused refused to cooperate.

“The law is not supposed to operate in a way to reward people who don’t cooperate with either criminal or civil investigations,” said Erin Buzuvis, a professor of law at Western New England University and a Title IX expert. “It’s just bizarre to think that would result in, ‘Oh, I guess we just can’t do anything.’ Who would ever cooperate with anything?”

In early December of last year, following a three-week investigation, the Florida State’s Attorney office announced that there wasn’t enough evidence to prove that the sexual encounter between Winston and the alleged victim was not consensual, and that no charges would be filed against the player. The state’s attorney in charge of that investigation, William Meggs, was highly critical of the Tallahassee Police Department’s investigation into the alleged rape in a New York Times report earlier this week, a report in which the university subsequently expressed its disappointment.

Earlier this month it was reported that the Department of Education’s Office of Civil Rights has launched its own investigation into FSU’s handling of the case.

While Winston will not face criminal charges in connection to the incident, the alleged victim is expected to pursue civil action against him as well as, potentially, FSU and the TPD.

So by FSU standards, you (allegedly) commit a crime, you refuse to cooperate, investigation is dropped. Yeah, right.

[AU64 10,122]

This thing has national media attention now...outside of the usual sports media. FSU as an institution is now being put under the microscope and this has become more than a sports story.

JMO but some heads will roll over this before it's over.

[cptau 169]

This thing has national media attention now...outside of the usual sports media. FSU as an institution is now being put under the microscope and this has become more than a sports story.

JMO but some heads will roll over this before it's over.

I still think the former FSU President Eric Barron and soon to be Penn State president is in trouble. Penn State is still making poor choices and does not need to be anyway involved in this.

Barron made the following statement at Penn State last February... I think the first sentence is just amazing. Basically FSU's attitude is that it all happened off campus so they are not responsible and this should not interfere with their star QB.

Barron addressed the Winston issue at his introductory press conference here in February:

“It’s incredibly important that an institution follow due process, that we let the police do their jobs and the district attorney to do their jobs and, if it gets to that point, to have the courts do their job, “ he said at the time.

“And for the university to respect that, because if you sit there and examine what occurred with Jameis Winston, here are many alumni that are looking and saying, ‘This man became a Heisman candidate and we moved to No. 2 in the polls and that’s why this is happening,’ ” Barron said. “And so there is this sense that you must support this quarterback, because look at this impact, and we’re so sure of what’s right or wrong in this particular case.”

From Centre Daily Times in State College, Pa.

http://www.centredai...on-florida.html

Penn State thoroughly vetted incoming president Eric Barron, a university spokesman said Wednesday, the same day The New York Times released a report critical of how Florida State handled sexual abuse allegations against a star football player while Barron was president there.

“Penn State’s presidential searches are confidential,” university spokesman David La Torre said in an email. “However, in electing Dr. Barron, the trustees conducted all appropriate, thorough background checks and investigations required by institutional policy for all employees.”

The paper’s investigation concluded Florida State “did little to determine what had happened” when a female student alleged she was sexually assaulted by quarterback Jameis Winston, who has not been charged and would go on to win the Heisman Trophy. The newspaper reported the university did not respond to a question about whether Barron knew about the allegations.

Penn State said Barron will not be available for interviews until he takes office and directed further questions to Florida State.

“Penn State is pleased that Eric Barron will officially become the president of our university on Monday, May 12,” La Torre said. “We look forward to his proven leadership as he takes the reins and guides the institution forward.”

Barron addressed the Winston issue at his introductory press conference here in February:

“It’s incredibly important that an institution follow due process, that we let the police do their jobs and the district attorney to do their jobs and, if it gets to that point, to have the courts do their job, “ he said at the time.

“And for the university to respect that, because if you sit there and examine what occurred with Jameis Winston, here are many alumni that are looking and saying, ‘This man became a Heisman candidate and we moved to No. 2 in the polls and that’s why this is happening,’ ” Barron said. “And so there is this sense that you must support this quarterback, because look at this impact, and we’re so sure of what’s right or wrong in this particular case.”

Florida State fired back Wednesday in a statement, expressing “deep disappointment” in the Times report, denying that university officials did not properly investigate rape allegations against Winston, and that the university did not cooperate in explaining its actions to the newspaper.

“The Times has done its readers, as well as the FSU community, a disservice by omitting (the university’s) answers and by seriously misrepresenting the university’s concern and care for its students who are victims of sexual assault,” the statement said.

Florida State’s statement pointed to programs available on the Tallahassee campus to support victims of sexual assault.

“In the case examined by the Times involving Jameis Winston,” the FSU statement said, “no university official outside the Victim Advocate Program received a report from any complainant naming Winston prior to when the allegations were made public in November 2013.”

The Tallahassee District Attorney’s Office chose not to press charges against Winston, who led the Seminoles to a 34-31 win over Auburn in the BCS championship game in January.

The university said it fulfilled its reporting obligations under Title IX. FSU said 83 percent of its students live off-campus “where incidents are handled by the Tallahassee Police Department and are not required to be reported as part of the university’s annual campus crime statistics.”

[channonc 466]

The only thing they could prove he was guilty of is that he had sex with her. Unless someone made a video recording (and maybe not even then) would they be able to prove anything else. So it boils down to a he-said/she-said dispute, and who you think is more believable. Given the experience of Brian Banks, I'm reluctant to jump to conclusions.

There was a video, but due to the TPD lack of urgency in investigating this matter, the teammate who shot the video deleted it a few days later.