Bush's Prophetic Speech in 2007 Fell on Deaf Ears

[TitanTiger 20,499]

We left Iraq due to an agreement Bush signed with the Iraqi government to leave by a certain date. No other arrangement for us to remain could be agreed upon because the Iraqi government would not agree to shield our troops from being prosecuted locally for any crimes. We were not going to subject our troops to whatever kangaroo court got set up due to them fighting back against local terrorists. So the deadline came and we left on schedule roughly.

I'm not sure how that gets laid at Obama's feet.

^^^^^ THIS!!!

I understand some folks dislike Obama and want to blame him for everything. I acknowledge that in some cases, the blame is legitimately placed. But us withdrawing from Iraq was NOT Obama's decision, his hands were tied. However he did recognize that regardless of what the Iraqi government did, the vast majority of the American people were also sick of the war and wanted our boys home ASAP with no more American casualties! I suspect John McCain would have done the same if he had been elected in 2008.

With 5 years of democrats and media drumming how bad things were and how it was all a mistake no wonder the people were tired of it. It's called leadership. You do the right thing He could have worked out a satisfactory status of forces agreement. He ran on the platform of getting the troops out and if he had done any different his base would have had a cow.

You can't hammer out jacks*** if the other side won't budge on the one non-negotiable. That is what happened here.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

We left Iraq due to an agreement Bush signed with the Iraqi government to leave by a certain date. No other arrangement for us to remain could be agreed upon because the Iraqi government would not agree to shield our troops from being prosecuted locally for any crimes. We were not going to subject our troops to whatever kangaroo court got set up due to them fighting back against local terrorists. So the deadline came and we left on schedule roughly.

I'm not sure how that gets laid at Obama's feet.

Get out of here with you're stinkin' facts! They aren't needed.

I'm not fan of Obama and am more than willing to level criticism at him where it's warranted. I just don't subscribe to the "throw everything against a wall and see what sticks" method of critique. Obama was handed a steaming turd with Iraq. He tried to work out something where a small US force could have stayed to help keep order and bolster the Iraqi troops. Their leadership was getting a ton of pressure not to give US troops immunity from prosecution there and we weren't about to put our men and women into a situation where they'd be subject to a foreign government's capricious whims. We had to leave unless we proposed to just dispense with the niceties and officially call our presence in Iraqi an occupation with an open ended finish date.

[TheBlueVue 177]

We left Iraq due to an agreement Bush signed with the Iraqi government to leave by a certain date. No other arrangement for us to remain could be agreed upon because the Iraqi government would not agree to shield our troops from being prosecuted locally for any crimes. We were not going to subject our troops to whatever kangaroo court got set up due to them fighting back against local terrorists. So the deadline came and we left on schedule roughly.

I'm not sure how that gets laid at Obama's feet.

^^^^^ THIS!!!

I understand some folks dislike Obama and want to blame him for everything. I acknowledge that in some cases, the blame is legitimately placed. But us withdrawing from Iraq was NOT Obama's decision, his hands were tied. However he did recognize that regardless of what the Iraqi government did, the vast majority of the American people were also sick of the war and wanted our boys home ASAP with no more American casualties! I suspect John McCain would have done the same if he had been elected in 2008.

With 5 years of democrats and media drumming how bad things were and how it was all a mistake no wonder the people were tired of it. It's called leadership. You do the right thing He could have worked out a satisfactory status of forces agreement. He ran on the platform of getting the troops out and if he had done any different his base would have had a cow.

You can't hammer out jacks*** if the other side won't budge on the one non-negotiable. That is what happened here.

I dont buy that, sorry. I will never be convinced that the proper effort was committed to negotiating a status of forces agreement. Obama was hellbent on getting out regardless and he did. The official line is they wouldn't budge..OK. having been in business for more years than I care to be reminded, Ive learned that a lot of times falling back on the "they wouldn't budge" excuse is exactly that...an excuse for not continuing the effort. Officially, they wouldn't budge. IMO, unofficially, that wasnt a sticking point for this admin.because their main focus was getting out.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Blue......although no one here knows all the facts I tend to agree with you. See my earlier post in this thread, #22 above.

[cooltigger21 0]

He was against the war from the beginning and never once waivered from that. He ran on that promise in 2008 and he bragged about it in the 2012 campaign. He had already claimed Al-Qeida was decimated and that they were on the run. There was no way in hell he was going to keep any troops there. The anti war people that make up the base of the democrat party would have revolted if he had not pulled out.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

We left Iraq due to an agreement Bush signed with the Iraqi government to leave by a certain date. No other arrangement for us to remain could be agreed upon because the Iraqi government would not agree to shield our troops from being prosecuted locally for any crimes. We were not going to subject our troops to whatever kangaroo court got set up due to them fighting back against local terrorists. So the deadline came and we left on schedule roughly.

I'm not sure how that gets laid at Obama's feet.

The SOFA agreement that Obama failed to obtain pertained to an extension of the date set by the Bush administration which was assumed to be accomplished. Withdrawing USA troops from Iraq would be the fulfillment of Obama's campaign promise and his failure to achieve an agreement with Iraq was the wedge issue that gave him the political strength to do so. That's how it gets laid at Obama's feet. Obama is inept at negotiating unless it's against America's best interests, eg. like he told Medvedev that he'll have more flexibility after the election...among other instances.

^^^^^ THIS!!!

I understand some folks dislike Obama and want to blame him for everything. I acknowledge that in some cases, the blame is legitimately placed. But us withdrawing from Iraq was NOT Obama's decision, his hands were tied. However he did recognize that regardless of what the Iraqi government did, the vast majority of the American people were also sick of the war and wanted our boys home ASAP with no more American casualties! I suspect John McCain would have done the same if he had been elected in 2008.

Obama tied his own hands.....only Houdini could do the same.

You would be wrong about John McCain: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/21/iraq-rejects-us-plea-bases

"John McCain, one of the leading foreign affairs specialists in the Senate and Obama's Republican opponent in the 2008 White House race, said: "Today marks a harmful and sad setback for the United States in the world. I respectfully disagree with the president: this decision will be viewed as a strategic victory for our enemies in the Middle East, especially the Iranian regime, which has worked relentlessly to ensure a full withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq."

Mitt Romney, front-runner in the race to take on Obama in the 2012 White House race, said: "The unavoidable question is whether this decision is the result of a naked political calculation or simply sheer ineptitude in negotiations with the Iraqi government."

Yes, America was sick of a protracted war, some of it caused by the Bush administration and some of it caused by the unique circumstances of this war. The rules of engagement of the enemy by our troops is the sticking point with me. When we send our men to battle it shouldn't be with one arm tied behind their back or how a soldier's weapon is to be compromised in the presence of his enemies. When engaging the enemy it should be done with full force, not a thumb on the scale in their favor.

[autigeremt 6,647]

The failures run throughout government and society. What do we do about it? That's what I want to know.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

Shakespeare summar

The failures run throughout government and society. What do we do about it? That's what I want to know.

Shakespeare answered your question long ago, "let's kill all the lawyers" that give us crappy politics and crappy laws. Don't let lawyers serve in congress.

[cooltigger21 0]

The failures run throughout government and society. What do we do about it? That's what I want to know.

Well we have put ourselves into a much tougher position now. ISIS is here and we are going to have to deal with them. This will likely be harder than what we faced after 9/11 but it has to be done. We are going to have to commit to a protracted fight. We have to take the lead and then bring other people along with us. Airstrikes alone will not cut it. It will require boots on the ground. We have to take the time to explain to the American people, if they don't already know, just exactly what we face and what we are going to accomplish.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

The failures run throughout government and society. What do we do about it? That's what I want to know.

Well we have put ourselves into a much tougher position now. ISIS is here and we are going to have to deal with them. This will likely be harder than what we faced after 9/11 but it has to be done. We are going to have to commit to a protracted fight. We have to take the lead and then bring other people along with us. Airstrikes alone will not cut it. It will require boots on the ground. We have to take the time to explain to the American people, if they don't already know, just exactly what we face and what we are going to accomplish.

No American boots on the ground. Line up the Saudis, the Jordanians, the Turks, the Iraqis, the Egyptians, the Emirates and so forth, with our guns to the back of their heads, telling them to go fight the bastards. Each of these countries has fomented Muslim extremism and now they have the consequences to deal with in the likes of ISIS. This is their problem, they should resolve it. If we become involved with air support then we hand them a bill for $1 trillion to be paid in advance.

[cooltigger21 0]

The failures run throughout government and society. What do we do about it? That's what I want to know.

Well we have put ourselves into a much tougher position now. ISIS is here and we are going to have to deal with them. This will likely be harder than what we faced after 9/11 but it has to be done. We are going to have to commit to a protracted fight. We have to take the lead and then bring other people along with us. Airstrikes alone will not cut it. It will require boots on the ground. We have to take the time to explain to the American people, if they don't already know, just exactly what we face and what we are going to accomplish.

No American boots on the ground. Line up the Saudis, the Jordanians, the Turks, the Iraqis, the Egyptians, the Emirates and so forth, with our guns to the back of their heads, telling them to go fight the bastards. Each of these countries has fomented Muslim extremism and now they have the consequences to deal with in the likes of ISIS. This is their problem, they should resolve it. If we become involved with air support then we hand them a bill for $1 trillion to be paid in advance.

this goes much further than just the middle East. Call them AL Qeida. Isis or whatever name you wish. This is spreading worldwide. They are moving into India now. The United States has to take the lead in this.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

The failures run throughout government and society. What do we do about it? That's what I want to know.

Well we have put ourselves into a much tougher position now. ISIS is here and we are going to have to deal with them. This will likely be harder than what we faced after 9/11 but it has to be done. We are going to have to commit to a protracted fight. We have to take the lead and then bring other people along with us. Airstrikes alone will not cut it. It will require boots on the ground. We have to take the time to explain to the American people, if they don't already know, just exactly what we face and what we are going to accomplish.

No American boots on the ground. Line up the Saudis, the Jordanians, the Turks, the Iraqis, the Egyptians, the Emirates and so forth, with our guns to the back of their heads, telling them to go fight the bastards. Each of these countries has fomented Muslim extremism and now they have the consequences to deal with in the likes of ISIS. This is their problem, they should resolve it. If we become involved with air support then we hand them a bill for $1 trillion to be paid in advance.

this goes much further than just the middle East. Call them AL Qeida. Isis or whatever name you wish. This is spreading worldwide. They are moving into India now. The United States has to take the lead in this.

I'm fine with the good ole USA taking the lead, just no American boots on the ground except as advisors, and PAY us for leading.

Islamic terrorism spreading ? I bet you forgot, "Al Qaeda is on the run"....didn't you ? lol

[TexasTiger 12,958]

Scary accurate.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1453870/president-bushs-predicted-in-2007-with-frightening-accuracy-what-is-happening-today-in-iraq/

“I know some in Washington would like us to start leaving Iraq now. To begin withdrawing before our commanders tell us we are ready would be dangerous for Iraq, for the region, and for the United States. It would mean surrendering the future of Iraq to al Qaeda. It would mean that we’d be risking mass killings on a horrific scale. It would mean we’d allow the terrorists to establish a safe haven in Iraq to replace the one they lost in Afghanistan. It would mean increasing the probability that American troops would have to return at some later date to confront an enemy that is even more dangerous.”

In other words, his decision to invade was a huge mistake.

[homersapien 11,393]

The failures run throughout government and society. What do we do about it? That's what I want to know.

Well we have put ourselves into a much tougher position now. ISIS is here and we are going to have to deal with them. This will likely be harder than what we faced after 9/11 but it has to be done. We are going to have to commit to a protracted fight. We have to take the lead and then bring other people along with us. Airstrikes alone will not cut it. It will require boots on the ground. We have to take the time to explain to the American people, if they don't already know, just exactly what we face and what we are going to accomplish.

No American boots on the ground. Line up the Saudis, the Jordanians, the Turks, the Iraqis, the Egyptians, the Emirates and so forth, with our guns to the back of their heads, telling them to go fight the bastards. Each of these countries has fomented Muslim extremism and now they have the consequences to deal with in the likes of ISIS. This is their problem, they should resolve it. If we become involved with air support then we hand them a bill for $1 trillion to be paid in advance.

this goes much further than just the middle East. Call them AL Qeida. Isis or whatever name you wish. This is spreading worldwide. They are moving into India now. The United States has to take the lead in this.

I'm fine with the good ole USA taking the lead, just no American boots on the ground except as advisors, and PAY us for leading.

Islamic terrorism spreading ? I bet you forgot, "Al Qaeda is on the run"....didn't you ? lol

Wars are won on the ground. You can't "lead" without being on the ground. We can however, provide lots of support - including advisers - to the people who actually win the war.

And I don't think we are entitled to be payed for whatever support we provide.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

In other words, his decision to invade was a huge mistake.

Just remember when you vote for Hillary in 2016, or Biden for that matter, that neither had regrets in their support for the war. I guess that strikes Kerry off the 2016 list since he voted for it before he voted against it. Kerry's kinda like BO, he couldn't make up his mind.

I'm fine with the good ole USA taking the lead, just no American boots on the ground except as advisors, and PAY us for leading.

Islamic terrorism spreading ? I bet you forgot, "Al Qaeda is on the run"....didn't you ? lol

Wars are won on the ground. You can't "lead" without being on the ground. We can however, provide lots of support - including advisers - to the people who actually win the war.

And I don't think we are entitled to be payed for whatever support we provide.

That's what I said......American troops may be on the ground, as advisors only.

[TexasTiger 12,958]

In other words, his decision to invade was a huge mistake.

Just remember when you vote for Hillary in 2016, or Biden for that matter, that neither had regrets in their support for the war. I guess that strikes Kerry off the 2016 list since he voted for it before he voted against it. Kerry's kinda like BO, he couldn't make up his mind.

Yep, they were wrong, too. Very disappointing. It was obvious.

[cooltigger21 0]

In other words, his decision to invade was a huge mistake.

Just remember when you vote for Hillary in 2016, or Biden for that matter, that neither had regrets in their support for the war. I guess that strikes Kerry off the 2016 list since he voted for it before he voted against it. Kerry's kinda like BO, he couldn't make up his mind.

Yep, they were wrong, too. Very disappointing. It was obvious.

was Afghanistan wrong too?

[TexasTiger 12,958]

In other words, his decision to invade was a huge mistake.

Just remember when you vote for Hillary in 2016, or Biden for that matter, that neither had regrets in their support for the war. I guess that strikes Kerry off the 2016 list since he voted for it before he voted against it. Kerry's kinda like BO, he couldn't make up his mind.

Yep, they were wrong, too. Very disappointing. It was obvious.

was Afghanistan wrong too?

Some military action was needed. Nation building was a mistake.

[cooltigger21 0]

In other words, his decision to invade was a huge mistake.

Just remember when you vote for Hillary in 2016, or Biden for that matter, that neither had regrets in their support for the war. I guess that strikes Kerry off the 2016 list since he voted for it before he voted against it. Kerry's kinda like BO, he couldn't make up his mind.

Yep, they were wrong, too. Very disappointing. It was obvious.

was Afghanistan wrong too?

Some military action was needed. Nation building was a mistake.

I don't disagree completely. I will say this about Iraq. In the backdrop of 9/11 you have a man who had WMD in past and had used them. He refused to allow inspectors in to the country. He was making all kind of claims about what he was going to do. Can you afford to take the chance he is bluffing? I'm betting that the chemical weapons in Syria came from Iraq.

[TexasTiger 12,958]

In other words, his decision to invade was a huge mistake.

Just remember when you vote for Hillary in 2016, or Biden for that matter, that neither had regrets in their support for the war. I guess that strikes Kerry off the 2016 list since he voted for it before he voted against it. Kerry's kinda like BO, he couldn't make up his mind.

Yep, they were wrong, too. Very disappointing. It was obvious.

was Afghanistan wrong too?

Some military action was needed. Nation building was a mistake.

I don't disagree completely. I will say this about Iraq. In the backdrop of 9/11 you have a man who had WMD in past and had used them. He refused to allow inspectors in to the country. He was making all kind of claims about what he was going to do. Can you afford to take the chance he is bluffing?

There was no good evidence he was a serious threat. That was clear to the rest of the world . Inspectors were given access , btw.

[TheBlueVue 177]

In other words, his decision to invade was a huge mistake.

Just remember when you vote for Hillary in 2016, or Biden for that matter, that neither had regrets in their support for the war. I guess that strikes Kerry off the 2016 list since he voted for it before he voted against it. Kerry's kinda like BO, he couldn't make up his mind.

Yep, they were wrong, too. Very disappointing. It was obvious.

They just didn't have the luxury of 20 - 20 hindsight from which to form their opinion like you Tex. Regardless of how wrong it WAS, that was then and this is now. Continuing to whine incessantly about the mistakes THEN doesn't do much to solve the current dilemma that ISIS presents NOW.

[cooltigger21 0]

In other words, his decision to invade was a huge mistake.

Just remember when you vote for Hillary in 2016, or Biden for that matter, that neither had regrets in their support for the war. I guess that strikes Kerry off the 2016 list since he voted for it before he voted against it. Kerry's kinda like BO, he couldn't make up his mind.

Yep, they were wrong, too. Very disappointing. It was obvious.

was Afghanistan wrong too?

Some military action was needed. Nation building was a mistake.

I don't disagree completely. I will say this about Iraq. In the backdrop of 9/11 you have a man who had WMD in past and had used them. He refused to allow inspectors in to the country. He was making all kind of claims about what he was going to do. Can you afford to take the chance he is bluffing?

There was no good evidence he was a serious threat. That was clear to the rest of the world . Inspectors were given access , btw.

they had some access but some areas they were kept out of for a long enough period to move anything that was there out.

[TheBlueVue 177]

In other words, his decision to invade was a huge mistake.

Just remember when you vote for Hillary in 2016, or Biden for that matter, that neither had regrets in their support for the war. I guess that strikes Kerry off the 2016 list since he voted for it before he voted against it. Kerry's kinda like BO, he couldn't make up his mind.

Yep, they were wrong, too. Very disappointing. It was obvious.

was Afghanistan wrong too?

Some military action was needed. Nation building was a mistake.

I don't disagree completely. I will say this about Iraq. In the backdrop of 9/11 you have a man who had WMD in past and had used them. He refused to allow inspectors in to the country. He was making all kind of claims about what he was going to do. Can you afford to take the chance he is bluffing?

There was no good evidence he was a serious threat. That was clear to the rest of the world . Inspectors were given access , btw.

they had some access but some areas they were kept out of for a long enough period to move anything that was there out.

They had plenty of access to areas that Saddam allowed but there were other areas he refused to allow inspectors access.

[TexasTiger 12,958]

In other words, his decision to invade was a huge mistake.

Just remember when you vote for Hillary in 2016, or Biden for that matter, that neither had regrets in their support for the war. I guess that strikes Kerry off the 2016 list since he voted for it before he voted against it. Kerry's kinda like BO, he couldn't make up his mind.

Yep, they were wrong, too. Very disappointing. It was obvious.

They just didn't have the luxury of 20 - 20 hindsight from which to form their opinion like you Tex. Regardless of how wrong it WAS, that was then and this is now. Continuing to whine incessantly about the mistakes THEN doesn't do much to solve the current dilemma that ISIS presents NOW.

The rest of the world didn't require hindsight then and neither did I. And hindsight doesn't help you at all. And I didn't start the thread about how prescient Bush was in 2007. If that's a valid topic then so is 2002. You need to quit whining. It's all you do.

[homersapien 11,393]

We left Iraq due to an agreement Bush signed with the Iraqi government to leave by a certain date. No other arrangement for us to remain could be agreed upon because the Iraqi government would not agree to shield our troops from being prosecuted locally for any crimes. We were not going to subject our troops to whatever kangaroo court got set up due to them fighting back against local terrorists. So the deadline came and we left on schedule roughly.

I'm not sure how that gets laid at Obama's feet.

Get out of here with you're stinkin' facts! They aren't needed.

I'm not fan of Obama and am more than willing to level criticism at him where it's warranted. I just don't subscribe to the "throw everything against a wall and see what sticks" method of critique. Obama was handed a steaming turd with Iraq. He tried to work out something where a small US force could have stayed to help keep order and bolster the Iraqi troops. Their leadership was getting a ton of pressure not to give US troops immunity from prosecution there and we weren't about to put our men and women into a situation where they'd be subject to a foreign government's capricious whims. We had to leave unless we proposed to just dispense with the niceties and officially call our presence in Iraqi an occupation with an open ended finish date.

Well, back in the "good ole days" we would have assassinated Maliki and replaced him with (somebody).