Progressive moral equivalence

[cooltigger21 0]

The constant harping on the crusades and past sins of Christianity as a way of trying to blunt the things the jihadists are doing is really wearing thin. No other religion besides Islam still acts as though we are living in the 7th century. http://townhall.com/columnists/derekhunter/2014/09/28/progressives-moral-equivalence-n1897566/page/2

[AUisAll 2]

The constant harping on the crusades and past sins of Christianity as a way of trying to blunt the things the jihadists are doing is really wearing thin. No other religion besides Islam still acts as though we are living in the 7th century. http://townhall.com/...n1897566/page/2

That is the truth. My question to you would be when has the truth mattered to the liberal/democrats?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Answer....not often.

[quietfan 233]

The constant harping on the crusades and past sins of Christianity as a way of trying to blunt the things the jihadists are doing is really wearing thin. No other religion besides Islam still acts as though we are living in the 7th century. http://townhall.com/...n1897566/page/2

Your reference to past sins and the relatively 'peacefulness' of religions at different times in history is a valid consideration. In general, the past should never be used to attack or defend violence in the present.

However, I don't think anyone was trying to use Christianity's past to "blunt" or excuse the evil and barbarity of terrorist actions. Rather I think the point was to blunt prejudice that would label ALL Muslims as violent or endorsers of jihad, just as it would be wrong to generalize that "ALL Christians are violent or supporters of 'holy war' " because of the actions of some.

It's been about 13 centuries since Mohammed walked the earth and dictated the Koran. It took around 1600 years* from the birth of Jesus for most of Christianity to abandon violence and barbarity as justifiable religious practice or behavior defensible based on interpretations of parts of the Old and New Testaments. I certainly hope that any Muslims endorsing violence will likewise evolve and stop interpreting the Koran to justify barbarity sooner than two centuries from now...preferably immediately! But I don't hold all Muslims, nor Islam itself, responsible for the brutality of a few any more than I hold all Germans of the time, or Christianity as a faith, responsible for the atrocities of the 30-Year's War.

And mostly for interesting historical trivia more than anything else. Buddhist martial orders/monasteries were a significant factor in the pre-shogunate feudal wars of 15th-16th century Japan, analogous to the Knights Templar in the Crusades or the Shao Lin monastery in China. So even Buddhism, today commonly considered one of the most peaceful of religions, had branches practicing violence and studying war nearly 2,000 years after the life and teachings of Buddha!

(*the end of the Protestant/Catholic Wars of the Reformation, and the beginning of the end of the Inquisition/witch burnings/and heresy as a capital offence.)

[AURaptor 1,122]

If white men did it 100's of years ago, then white man can be held accountable for it today.

But don't hold brown skinned men accountable for what THEY are doing today.

It's the fault of those white men, so many centuries ago, that the brown men are violent TODAY.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

If white men did it 100's of years ago, then white man can be held accountable for it today.

But don't hold brown skinned men accountable for what THEY are doing today.

It's the fault of those white men, so many centuries ago, that the brown men are violent TODAY.

Always nice to hear from the white supremacists. Wite Pour!

[homersapien 11,369]

If white men did it 100's of years ago, then white man can be held accountable for it today.

But don't hold brown skinned men accountable for what THEY are doing today.

It's the fault of those white men, so many centuries ago, that the brown men are violent TODAY.

I knew this was going to be fun, but

[icanthearyou 4,462]

If white men did it 100's of years ago, then white man can be held accountable for it today.

But don't hold brown skinned men accountable for what THEY are doing today.

It's the fault of those white men, so many centuries ago, that the brown men are violent TODAY.

I knew this was going to be fun, but

I'm not sure fun is the right word but, it is always fascinating watching people so proudly display their ignorance.

[autigeremt 6,605]

I'm not in agreement with anyone being supreme over another but I find myself tired of being labeled for what others did before my birth.

As for the original post, nothing suprises me.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

If white men did it 100's of years ago, then white man can be held accountable for it today.

But don't hold brown skinned men accountable for what THEY are doing today.

It's the fault of those white men, so many centuries ago, that the brown men are violent TODAY.

Then stop white men from having shows on Fox where they support individuals that make movies in 2013/2014 that do stuff like try and discredit facts, like President Grant, Custer, and Sherman discussing the "final solution"... someone else used those words later.... of the Native American population.

Also stop trying to write that stuff out of history books so everything is all rainbows and ice cream and America has no skeletons in the closet or blood on its hands. It's good to learn from ones mistakes.

There is a large contingency of Conservatives that are so fearful of, or just flat out want to forget, these type of things that they make a huge deal trying to deny and get rid of them and just move the issues right to the front with big neon lights. This, versus just approaching them in a academic method.

And their are idiots on both sides that won't ever let go, if there were not then we wouldn't still have the KKK and National Socialist groups in the United States. These individuals running around actually justifying half the stuff white's did doesn't help things go away. Fact all it does is expose a younger generation to the fact that the mistakes that we should have learned from in the past and exterminated from our culture are still right there, alive and kicking.

And honestly, I have yet to see or speak with anyone that doesn't hold the members of ISIS accountable for their own actions and blame it on the Christians (I'm sure there is that guy somewhere though).

[TheBlueVue 177]

"It's been about 13 centuries since Mohammed walked the earth and dictated the Koran. It took around 1600 years* from the birth of Jesus for most of Christianity to abandon violence and barbarity as justifiable religious practice or behavior defensible based on interpretations of parts of the Old and New Testaments. I certainly hope that any Muslims endorsing violence will likewise evolve and stop interpreting the Koran to justify barbarity sooner than two centuries from now...preferably immediately! But I don't hold all Muslims, nor Islam itself, responsible for the brutality of a few any more than I hold all Germans of the time, or Christianity as a faith, responsible for the atrocities of the 30-Year's War"

You do realize, I trust , that when Mohammed was spreading Islam is wasn't via missionary efforts, right? It was via conquest. Like it or not the differences between Christianity and islam are so fundamental AND vast it may well take another 20 centuries for all Muslims to quit endorsing violence. It is at the very core of their religion...study "jihad"

By contrast, Christianity has never endorsed violence. Have there been zealots who acted in extreme ways...of course but the essence of Christian beliefs wouldn't let that stand. Jesus was a prophet of peace and love. That is what is at the heart of all Christian tenets but that is not at the heart of Islam..it simply is not.

[cooltigger21 0]

It is not just how they view outsiders. Look at how they treat their own. Honor killing, genital mutilation and just their overall attitude toward women is absurd. These people are stuck in the 7th century.

[quietfan 233]

You do realize, I trust , that when Mohammed was spreading Islam is wasn't via missionary efforts, right? It was via conquest. Like it or not the differences between Christianity and islam are so fundamental AND vast it may well take another 20 centuries for all Muslims to quit endorsing violence. It is at the very core of their religion...study "jihad"

By contrast, Christianity has never endorsed violence. Have there been zealots who acted in extreme ways...of course but the essence of Christian beliefs wouldn't let that stand. Jesus was a prophet of peace and love. That is what is at the heart of all Christian tenets but that is not at the heart of Islam..it simply is not.

Yes, I am aware of the history of Islam and jihad. That does not alter my stand that "I don't hold all Muslims, nor Islam itself, responsible for the brutality of a few any more than I hold all Germans of the time, or Christianity as a faith, responsible for the atrocities of the 30-Year's War". I will not profile or judge someone based on what others have done or said. I will not assume that every Muslim I encounter is probably out to get me. And I accept both the risks and the benefits of showing such tolerance. To me, prejudging someone as likely violent or dangerous because they have brown skin, are wearing a burqua, or face Mecca when praying is far removed from Jesus' message of love.

And of course Christianity has endorsed violence. The Crusades had the full blessing of the Pope and the Church (and not just against Muslims in the Middle East, but against pagans of the Baltic states, the Reconquesta of Spain, and even against fellow Christians, the Albigensians.) The 1st Crusade which took Jerusalem, indiscriminately slaughtering its occupants in the process, would have never been launched without Pope Urban II's call to arms. I'd say the tortures inflicted by the Inquisition, the executions of witches, and the burning of heretics were pretty violent acts as well, all endorsed by the Church based on its interpretations of the Bible...i.e., Christianity! (Immolation is actually more brutal than beheading because the pain lasts longer.)

But those violent acts fully supported by the Christianity of the time are no reason to profile all Christians as "violent" or hold modern Christians responsible for the past. Neither are they a reason to excuse or trivialize the atrocities being committed by ISIS today, and the Left should not be characterized as making such an excuse for terrorism. I've never heard a single liberal express the sentiment that "Christians are more evil than Muslims" or "ISIS can be excused because some Christians did some horrible things 1000 years ago."

[homersapien 11,369]

For the record, whenever I have brought up historical Christian violence it is to refute the proposition that there is something inherently violent in Islam that just doesn't exist in Christianity - or any other religion for that matter.

There is plenty of literal justification in the Bible for violence if you are of the mind to find it. And the fact that Christian-led violence has happened many times in the past simply proves it. To argue that the people that did this were acting in a non-Christian way, simply illustrates a blindness to the same argument which is true for Islamic extremists. The fact that the greater majority of Muslims reject this sort of violent extremism is further proof that it's not just about Islam per se'

Granted, Islam obviously has a major problem with the numbers of extremists popping up over the world, but I submit this has more to do with culture than it does Islam. To make this into a religious war only confirms the fact that any given religion is capable of justifying violence (war) on the basis of religion. Even worse, it is exactly what the Islamist radicals want to happen.

[autigeremt 6,605]

Bad people (who happen to be radical Islamists) need to be defeated. And it needs to happen as soon as possible.

Moving along.......

[AUisAll 2]

Bad people (who happen to be radical Islamists) need to be defeated. And it needs to happen as soon as possible.

Moving along.......

But how can we when Christians and the US are so bad? Just ask the blame America crowd. Many reside here.

[homersapien 11,369]

Bad people (who happen to be radical Islamists) need to be defeated. And it needs to happen as soon as possible.

Moving along.......

But how can we when Christians and the US are so bad? Just ask the blame America crowd. Many reside here.

I love it when you advertise. Saves time and effort.

[AUisAll 2]

Bad people (who happen to be radical Islamists) need to be defeated. And it needs to happen as soon as possible.

Moving along.......

But how can we when Christians and the US are so bad? Just ask the blame America crowd. Many reside here.

I love it when you advertise. Saves time and effort.

LOL. And for the record, you are one of the 'blame America' crowd. But you make a good little sheeple for todays Democrat party. Carry on!

[TheBlueVue 177]

For the record, whenever I have brought up historical Christian violence it is to refute the proposition that there is something inherently violent in Islam that just doesn't exist in Christianity - or any other religion for that matter.

There is plenty of literal justification in the Bible for violence if you are of the mind to find it. And the fact that Christian-led violence has happened many times in the past simply proves it. To argue that the people that did this were acting in a non-Christian way, simply illustrates a blindness to the same argument which is true for Islamic extremists. The fact that the greater majority of Muslims reject this sort of violent extremism is further proof that it's not just about Islam per se'

Granted, Islam obviously has a major problem with the numbers of extremists popping up over the world, but I submit this has more to do with culture than it does Islam. To make this into a religious war only confirms the fact that any given religion is capable of justifying violence (war) on the basis of religion. Even worse, it is exactly what the Islamist radicals want to happen.

All I can tell you is that the overwhelming majority of terrorist activity NOW is rooted in Islamic extremism. Notice I am not making this a religious war but it is a little naive to think they aren't. Moreover, I dont see ANY religion even attempting to justify their criminal carnage but the Islamic extremists. I don't see why it matters if its culturally rooted.

I don't know anyone who denies that Christians haven't been perfect but with regard to relevance, I fail to see any special connection between what Christians did a 1000 years ago, for example, and using that to somehow minimize the the actions of modern day jihadees today acting on behalf of their view of Islam and the expansion of Sharia Law. Beheading infidels was their prophet Mohammed's preferred method. It is alluded to in graphic detail in the Koran.

47:4- “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives”: thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.”

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

It is not just how they view outsiders. Look at how they treat their own. Honor killing, genital mutilation and just their overall attitude toward women is absurd. These people are stuck in the 7th century.

And there are cultures that view circumcision as genital mutilation, we don't pay women equal wages and call them boobs on the ground, and people want to repeal the act which is trying to end medical bankruptcy, which doesn't occur in other industrialized countries which they think is a primitive concept. Different views for different cultures.

Hell to be honest, I wouldn't mind some hand chopping for thieves and a bit of castration for rapist.

I mean, to be honest we really don't treat our own all that well if they don't have $$$$.

Course you can't be honest about America here, cause then you get labeled in the blame crowd for not following the rah rah sisk boom bah routine like a good soldier.

[quietfan 233]

All I can tell you is that the overwhelming majority of terrorist activity NOW is rooted in Islamic extremism.

...

I fail to see any special connection between what Christians did a 1000 years ago, for example, and using that to somehow minimize the the actions of modern day jihadees today acting on behalf of their view of Islam and the expansion of Sharia Law.

Would it surprise you to know I agree with you on both points?

Yes, the majority of terrorist activity we see today is rooted in Islamic extremism,

Where we apparently differ is that I choose not to let that fact color my opinion of Muslims in general, or see it as the way ALL Muslims interpret the Koran. I'm not going to profile or automatically distrust/disrespect/fear every Muslim I encounter at the mall, a restaurant, or the airport because of the acts of some.

Of course it makes absolutely no sense to cite Christian barbarities of a millennium ago as an excuse for atrocities committed by anyone today.

But then I haven't actually heard anyone try to make that excuse. Not once have I ever heard anyone, liberal or conservative, defend modern terrorism on the grounds that "Well, Christians did it too a thousand years ago". I've heard some conservatives accuse the liberals of such: "Oh, those crazy disgusting libs just want to excuse radical Muslim violence by bringing up the Crusades...that's because they hate America and Christianity". But that is not, has never been, the liberal position.

The violent past of the Christian Church is not brought up to minimize the guilt of ISIS or Al Qaeda butchers, but as a counter to exaggerated stereotypes like "Islam always bad, always endorse violence/war...Christianity always good, never endorse violence/war...therefore all Christians good, all Muslims bad, must hate/fear Muslims" For those who continually recite the mantra "Islam is not a religion of peace", it is important to note that Christianity has not always been "a religion of peace" either, in its actions or its Scripture. However the sins of one faith in no way exonerate the other. Nor do the sins of the past indict the present.

[cooltigger21 0]

It is not just how they view outsiders. Look at how they treat their own. Honor killing, genital mutilation and just their overall attitude toward women is absurd. These people are stuck in the 7th century.

And there are cultures that view circumcision as genital mutilation, we don't pay women equal wages and call them boobs on the ground, and people want to repeal the act which is trying to end medical bankruptcy, which doesn't occur in other industrialized countries which they think is a primitive concept. Different views for different cultures.

Hell to be honest, I wouldn't mind some hand chopping for thieves and a bit of castration for rapist.

I mean, to be honest we really don't treat our own all that well if they don't have $$$$.

Course you can't be honest about America here, cause then you get labeled in the blame crowd for not following the rah rah sisk boom bah routine like a good soldier.

I have never in my life seen many people work so hard at downplaying these people For some reason on you just have to bring everyone down to their level or minimize them. It is moral equivalency on display

[homersapien 11,369]

It is not just how they view outsiders. Look at how they treat their own. Honor killing, genital mutilation and just their overall attitude toward women is absurd. These people are stuck in the 7th century.

And there are cultures that view circumcision as genital mutilation, we don't pay women equal wages and call them boobs on the ground, and people want to repeal the act which is trying to end medical bankruptcy, which doesn't occur in other industrialized countries which they think is a primitive concept. Different views for different cultures.

Hell to be honest, I wouldn't mind some hand chopping for thieves and a bit of castration for rapist.

I mean, to be honest we really don't treat our own all that well if they don't have $$$$.

Course you can't be honest about America here, cause then you get labeled in the blame crowd for not following the rah rah sisk boom bah routine like a good soldier.

I have never in my life seen many people work so hard at downplaying these people For some reason on you just have to bring everyone down to their level or minimize them. It is moral equivalency on display

That's because you are totally missing the issue. As are a few others.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

It is not just how they view outsiders. Look at how they treat their own. Honor killing, genital mutilation and just their overall attitude toward women is absurd. These people are stuck in the 7th century.

And there are cultures that view circumcision as genital mutilation, we don't pay women equal wages and call them boobs on the ground, and people want to repeal the act which is trying to end medical bankruptcy, which doesn't occur in other industrialized countries which they think is a primitive concept. Different views for different cultures.

Hell to be honest, I wouldn't mind some hand chopping for thieves and a bit of castration for rapist.

I mean, to be honest we really don't treat our own all that well if they don't have $$$$.

Course you can't be honest about America here, cause then you get labeled in the blame crowd for not following the rah rah sisk boom bah routine like a good soldier.

I have never in my life seen many people work so hard at downplaying these people For some reason on you just have to bring everyone down to their level or minimize them. It is moral equivalency on display

Actually, I have never down played ISIS. I just refuse to lump everyone into the same pool. And it really wasn't hard work to gaze at your statement and be able to say that there are things in our own culture that others view as barbaric, or uncivilized, or not as advanced as we should be.

I was also totally serious about the punishments. Especially the crime for rapists.

But since you think I am downplaying it and bringing everyone to their level.... exactly how should I treat and react to the Muslim girl I will see in class tomorrow that I have had in multiple classes and speak with daily?

[TheBlueVue 177]

" For those who continually recite the mantra "Islam is not a religion of peace", it is important to note that Christianity has not always been "a religion of peace" either, in its actions or its Scripture. However the sins of one faith in no way exonerate the other. Nor do the sins of the past indict the present.

If your last sentence is sincere, why do you continue to harp on Christian misbehavior of over a 1000 years ago? Lets just look at what is happening NOW and call it like it is....Islamic extremists are insanely criminal animals that have absolutely no regard for human life.