My apologies to the defensive critics

[ausoldiergrad 57]

deleted.

[ausoldiergrad 57]

more stupidity deleted.

[douggwilliams 61]

deleted

[tiger88 934]

2012 same people that were saying things like trust the coaches and making excuses like they have only been in this defense for so and so years are the same ones that attack you when you say anything now

I wonder what the biggest difference between 2012 and this year is? Oh, i got, the team is playing their heart out and is the 3rd ranked team in the country as opposed to 0-8 in the SEC. Worst........comparison........ever.

Who compared anything? You better stick to pretending you're smarter than everybody that posts, don't actually believe yourself.

Who compared anything? Seriously?

Your "non-comparison" isn't even valid. Most people recognized there was significant issues with the entire team, not just the d. We all learned (most of us anyways) later that there were some serious systemic issues going on. That's why the entire team tanked. I threw in the towel well before the end of the season and felt a change was needed and was glad when they cleaned house. Most people on this board(pre merger) felt a change was needed. so your entire "same people" theory holds no water.

I have seen nothing so far this year that warrants a change on defense. That could change but i really don't think it will.

[aubfaninga 16]

Who would you "trade" defenses with to compliment our offense? Clemson? Alabama? (serious thoughts)

Is that really the best way to look at it? Auburn has the 14th most powerful scoring offense in the country and yet we lead the the nation in games won by 8 or less and are absolutely world famous for winning or losing in the last 1:30. Why is that? It's not the offense.

If you want a list of defenses I think are playing better than Auburn's, I'd say right now KSU, UA, Ole Miss, maybe Clemson and maybe LSU now that they've awakened are playing better defense. So much is said about how great Mich State is, but they really haven't been playing top caliber competition. Of course, I wouldn't trade our team out because I think they are perfectly capable of playing good defense - certainly better than they did last week. They could be probably be great if CEJ ever gets the rocket scientist-cheetah hybrid he needs at his Star position, but we don't have that right now.

The Auburn D needs more stops. The offense cannot hope to score on every possession, which is pretty much how AU has been winning games. Except for that game against MSU where the offense tripped up and, though they kept scoring, couldn't catch up.

I enjoy reading your posts. WAR EAGLE!!!

You asked...

"Auburn has the 14th most powerful scoring offense in the country and yet we lead the nation in games won by 8 or less and are absolutely world famous for winning or losing in the last 1:30. Why is that?"

I can't answer the question fully but I can share my thoughts on some things that might contribute without playing the blame game first.

#1 What has been the most competitive division/conference in the past two years?

#2 Does Auburn participate in said league?

#3 Who has played the most 10 win (or projected 10 win) teams over the past 2 years?

#4 How many top 25 teams over the past 2 years has Auburn played?

#5 top 10?

#6 top 5?

#7 Who has played three #1 rated teams over the past 2 years at the time of kickoff?

If you answer those 7 questions, at very least you can make an educated guess as to a school that might have been involved in a few close games.

The last two games has raised some questions on how much better Ole Miss truly is on defense. Jury is still out.

I could give you a mountain of useless reasons on why Clemson defense is not better.

LSU is getting better so let's look at them after this weekend.

Before I bore you with my "homer" motivated attempt to close the gap between our defense, Kst., and bama... Let me state that I do feel they have better defenses than us. How much better is my question?

Both basically allow one less touchdown per game. Now the questions start with, Who has played the tougher schedule thus far? Road games against descent opponents? Rate each head coaches philosophy on time of possession? I say #1 Snyder is a clock hog with a methodical offense #2 Saban loves long time consuming drives and is one of the best at managing field position. #3 Gus wants to score on every play and faster than he did the time before

You also brought up that we have a high powered offense. This can be a double edged sword for statistics. The opponent will get the ball more often. The defense will get less rest time. The most important factor... Opposing coaches know they must score to win and open up the playbook. (see the Ole Miss/Alabama, the Arkansas/Miss St, and the Alabama/Arkansas for a different offensive approach to games)

My prediction is that Auburn passes Kansas St and closes on Alabama on points allowed and average margin of victory over the next 4 games.

Alabama is currently +22.5 (playing Lsu, Miss St, W Caro, and Auburn)

Kansas St is currently +16.9 (playing TCU, West V, Kansas, and Baylor)

Auburn is currently +16.8 (playing A&M, Georgia, Samford, and Alabama)

We can get better but we are doing ok.

[ToraGirl 5,498]

My insignificant vote goes to locking this incredibly regrettable thread.

Times two. Or deleting it altogether. This one over-lengthy thread takes away from the overall good-sense nature of both AUFamily and most of our other threads. Too much fodder for rival fanbases, and blatant disrespect of the appropriate language guidelines! (Frankly, it sounds like something you would hear on Finebaum, which is the last comparison I believe AUFamily would want to embrace.)

[ausoldiergrad 57]

Fight me u losers!

[cole256 17,084]

2012 same people that were saying things like trust the coaches and making excuses like they have only been in this defense for so and so years are the same ones that attack you when you say anything now

I wonder what the biggest difference between 2012 and this year is? Oh, i got, the team is playing their heart out and is the 3rd ranked team in the country as opposed to 0-8 in the SEC. Worst........comparison........ever.

Who compared anything? You better stick to pretending you're smarter than everybody that posts, don't actually believe yourself.

Who compared anything? Seriously?

Your "non-comparison" isn't even valid. Most people recognized there was significant issues with the entire team, not just the d. We all learned (most of us anyways) later that there were some serious systemic issues going on. That's why the entire team tanked. I threw in the towel well before the end of the season and felt a change was needed and was glad when they cleaned house. Most people on this board(pre merger) felt a change was needed. so your entire "same people" theory holds no water.

I have seen nothing so far this year that warrants a change on defense. That could change but i really don't think it will.

That's what YOU say but I remember things quite differently, so just because YOU say it doesn't hold water doesn't mean anything to me. You can try to speak for everybody and make an argument out of it but that's what really doesn't hold water. Like I said from what I remember most on here didn't want a change in leadership.

As far as records and team status and all of that I wasn't comparing the teams at all. I don't think anybody needs to be fired, so talking about one team's record one year and comparing it to another team's record and all of that doesn't make sense

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,838]

2012 same people that were saying things like trust the coaches and making excuses like they have only been in this defense for so and so years are the same ones that attack you when you say anything now

...pretty much

[war eagle6 0]

This just in... This board has been overrun by morons. Our D gives us a chance every week, and is significantly better than under Chizik (though we could sure use a Nick Fairley). War Eagle to those of you smart enough to know how good we have it to be in the position we are in. We were 3-9 two years ago, and my immense pride and pleasure in the unprecedented turnaround in our program, in the toughest division of the toughest conference in the world, does not represent empathy regarding our recent defensive performance. War damn eagle! Go coach Gus, coach Ellis and all the rest.

deleted

Told ya.

mod edit. You know that kind of crap doesn't belong here. enjoy a vacation

[war eagle6 0]

2012 same people that were saying things like trust the coaches and making excuses like they have only been in this defense for so and so years are the same ones that attack you when you say anything now

I wonder what the biggest difference between 2012 and this year is? Oh, i got, the team is playing their heart out and is the 3rd ranked team in the country as opposed to 0-8 in the SEC. Worst........comparison........ever.

Who compared anything? You better stick to pretending you're smarter than everybody that posts, don't actually believe yourself.

Who compared anything? Seriously?

Your "non-comparison" isn't even valid. Most people recognized there was significant issues with the entire team, not just the d. We all learned (most of us anyways) later that there were some serious systemic issues going on. That's why the entire team tanked. I threw in the towel well before the end of the season and felt a change was needed and was glad when they cleaned house. Most people on this board(pre merger) felt a change was needed. so your entire "same people" theory holds no water.

I have seen nothing so far this year that warrants a change on defense. That could change but i really don't think it will.

That's what YOU say but I remember things quite differently, so just because YOU say it doesn't hold water doesn't mean anything to me. You can try to speak for everybody and make an argument out of it but that's what really doesn't hold water. Like I said from what I remember most on here didn't want a change in leadership.

As far as records and team status and all of that I wasn't comparing the teams at all. I don't think anybody needs to be fired, so talking about one team's record one year and comparing it to another team's record and all of that doesn't make sense

Welcome to the world of tiger88

[ausburn 159]

[AURealist 2,185]

No way, man. I think these guys are about to make a breakthrough into a whole new dimension of asinine behavior. They've reached rock bottom and have started to dig.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,838]

Damn man this thread reached juvenile levels

[hutchids 227]

So... it's settled then?

The two thread takeaways:

1) People who start a thread to voice concerns or voice concerns about the effectiveness of Auburn's defense are all whining douche bags that hate Auburn, enjoy insulting the players, and want coaches fired. Today if possible. :realmad:/>

2) There may be a defensive issue or two, but those just, you know, happen and there's really nothing that can be done about those silly little things anyway, so...everything-is-fine-war-eagle. :cheer:/>

Great! Thread complete!

:puke:/>

_Edited for more descriptive content because it's been pointed out that calling people "douche bags" is not acting like a hothead as the term is perfectly acceptable for use in a respectful discussion when describing those who believe and dare to state in writing their nasty ungood thoughts about Auburn's totally unflawed defense._

Lol! Havent read the whole thread this seems like the winner post. Probably the truest too

[augolf1716 21,470]

well as I see it...........

[AURealist 2,185]

Who would you "trade" defenses with to compliment our offense? Clemson? Alabama? (serious thoughts)

Is that really the best way to look at it? Auburn has the 14th most powerful scoring offense in the country and yet we lead the the nation in games won by 8 or less and are absolutely world famous for winning or losing in the last 1:30. Why is that? It's not the offense.

If you want a list of defenses I think are playing better than Auburn's, I'd say right now KSU, UA, Ole Miss, maybe Clemson and maybe LSU now that they've awakened are playing better defense. So much is said about how great Mich State is, but they really haven't been playing top caliber competition. Of course, I wouldn't trade our team out because I think they are perfectly capable of playing good defense - certainly better than they did last week. They could be probably be great if CEJ ever gets the rocket scientist-cheetah hybrid he needs at his Star position, but we don't have that right now.

The Auburn D needs more stops. The offense cannot hope to score on every possession, which is pretty much how AU has been winning games. Except for that game against MSU where the offense tripped up and, though they kept scoring, couldn't catch up.

I enjoy reading your posts. WAR EAGLE!!!

You asked...

"Auburn has the 14th most powerful scoring offense in the country and yet we lead the nation in games won by 8 or less and are absolutely world famous for winning or losing in the last 1:30. Why is that?"

I can't answer the question fully but I can share my thoughts on some things that might contribute without playing the blame game first.

#1 What has been the most competitive division/conference in the past two years?

#2 Does Auburn participate in said league?

#3 Who has played the most 10 win (or projected 10 win) teams over the past 2 years?

#4 How many top 25 teams over the past 2 years has Auburn played?

#5 top 10?

#6 top 5?

#7 Who has played three #1 rated teams over the past 2 years at the time of kickoff?

If you answer those 7 questions, at very least you can make an educated guess as to a school that might have been involved in a few close games.

The last two games has raised some questions on how much better Ole Miss truly is on defense. Jury is still out.

I could give you a mountain of useless reasons on why Clemson defense is not better.

LSU is getting better so let's look at them after this weekend.

Before I bore you with my "homer" motivated attempt to close the gap between our defense, Kst., and bama... Let me state that I do feel they have better defenses than us. How much better is my question?

Both basically allow one less touchdown per game. Now the questions start with, Who has played the tougher schedule thus far? Road games against descent opponents? Rate each head coaches philosophy on time of possession? I say #1 Snyder is a clock hog with a methodical offense #2 Saban loves long time consuming drives and is one of the best at managing field position. #3 Gus wants to score on every play and faster than he did the time before

You also brought up that we have a high powered offense. This can be a double edged sword for statistics. The opponent will get the ball more often. The defense will get less rest time. The most important factor... Opposing coaches know they must score to win and open up the playbook. (see the Ole Miss/Alabama, the Arkansas/Miss St, and the Alabama/Arkansas for a different offensive approach to games)

My prediction is that Auburn passes Kansas St and closes on Alabama on points allowed and average margin of victory over the next 4 games.

Alabama is currently +22.5 (playing Lsu, Miss St, W Caro, and Auburn)

Kansas St is currently +16.9 (playing TCU, West V, Kansas, and Baylor)

Auburn is currently +16.8 (playing A&M, Georgia, Samford, and Alabama)

We can get better but we are doing ok.

Understand about the blame-game concerns. The Gus Bus is just 2 years old and already kicking butt and taking names. And I'm not surprised that a defensive architecture like CEJ's is taking time to gel. But that doesn't mean the perceived weaknesses can't be discussed as long as it's an honest discussion about what is and what realistically could be.

You make some good points. It's definitely true that game pace makes a difference in the stats - # of plays, scoring, etc... And yes, the level of competition AU plays is very high, so close games should be expected, but every single game? Won or lost in the last 1:30? Face it. At that point, you are merely swapping scores. Even Baylor's D stops opponents sometimes...

And I know the HBC pulled out all the stops against us and that's been given as a reason some numbers looked high, but why was it AU could shut down 3rd and longs completely, but couldn't stop the very next play?

I don't really think much of the standard statistics found on ESPN or CBSSports, etc.. because they include numbers against cupcakes. That skews the numbers so much you can't get the real picture. There is a post somewhere on this thread that AU's D is 34th on average, but what does that mean when you play SJST and Samford and others are playing 'directional' colleges? I'd love to pull all those numbers again but only for >.400 Power5 teams and see where everyone stands.

I'm not really sold on Clemson's defense being better than AU's, either. I said they might be better, but Auburn's numbers are kind of skewed because they've been great in the Red Zone. Which, unfortunately leads to the point I do believe but hate stating openly, which is that the Tiger defense is really little more than a 'Prevent' defense on pass plays. A disciplined offense with a functional O-line and a decent QB can move down the field by exploiting Star misreads on play-action with short passes across the middle, and if they're smart, they'll strike for the end zone before they reach AU's 20. Step inside the twenty, however, where the D doesn't have to defend a lot of real estate, and the AU athleticism can usually crush the offensive advance. There, I said it. But you made me.

Do this:

1) Go back and watch the AU-Ole Miss game (or USC or MSU). Watch the rush, coverage and tackling.

2) Then go watch Utah play anybody. Watch the way their D-line and linebackers work together like a freaking ballet. Check out the absolutely smothering man2man on the receivers. Yes, it's only the Pac12, but most of those guys probably came with no stars beside their names.

3) Then convince me that I'm crazy to think this D could be much better, Mr. Sunshine Pumper.

WDE!

* Nomex on... *

_edit: O-Line -> D-Line_

[shabby 1,958]

Here is the rankings of teams we have played in the categoy of points scored: 24th, 97th, 16th, 27th, 45th, 13th, 24th tie, and 52nd.

Not too shabby offwnses. Here again is our ranking in points allowed: 32nd.

How again is it that we have a complete and utter failure with our defense.

Look, no one will argue that there aren't areas in need of improvement but if you are actually arguing for the firing of coaches based on defensive performance, then I ask these two questions:

1) Have we actually played pretty good offenses this years?

2) In general did we limit their point production?

[weagl1 1,790]

I think we've can all agree our defense needs to improve. Pass rush needs to improve. Coverage in the secondary needs to improve. Tackling in the secondary needs to improve. Starting LB's are about the only ones playing great right now. We like to complain but we are solidly in 3rd in the rankings for the playoff and if we win out we are in no matter what else happens. That is a pretty good place to be right now and there are a hundred other teams that would love to trade places with us. We might have to score 40 to beat A&M, UGA and Bammer but the way the offense is playing that is certainly a good possibility, if not a probability. Sometimes you read stuff on this board and it is hard to believe we are on the same side. Chill. We got what we got right now. If Gus sees the need to make some changes on the D that is a decision he will have to make when the season is over.

[WarTim 3,457]

Great post Weagl1 !!! W D E

[AUbritt 611]

Who would you "trade" defenses with to compliment our offense? Clemson? Alabama? (serious thoughts)

Is that really the best way to look at it? Auburn has the 14th most powerful scoring offense in the country and yet we lead the the nation in games won by 8 or less and are absolutely world famous for winning or losing in the last 1:30. Why is that? It's not the offense.

If you want a list of defenses I think are playing better than Auburn's, I'd say right now KSU, UA, Ole Miss, maybe Clemson and maybe LSU now that they've awakened are playing better defense. So much is said about how great Mich State is, but they really haven't been playing top caliber competition. Of course, I wouldn't trade our team out because I think they are perfectly capable of playing good defense - certainly better than they did last week. They could be probably be great if CEJ ever gets the rocket scientist-cheetah hybrid he needs at his Star position, but we don't have that right now.

The Auburn D needs more stops. The offense cannot hope to score on every possession, which is pretty much how AU has been winning games. Except for that game against MSU where the offense tripped up and, though they kept scoring, couldn't catch up.

I enjoy reading your posts. WAR EAGLE!!!

You asked...

"Auburn has the 14th most powerful scoring offense in the country and yet we lead the nation in games won by 8 or less and are absolutely world famous for winning or losing in the last 1:30. Why is that?"

I can't answer the question fully but I can share my thoughts on some things that might contribute without playing the blame game first.

#1 What has been the most competitive division/conference in the past two years?

#2 Does Auburn participate in said league?

#3 Who has played the most 10 win (or projected 10 win) teams over the past 2 years?

#4 How many top 25 teams over the past 2 years has Auburn played?

#5 top 10?

#6 top 5?

#7 Who has played three #1 rated teams over the past 2 years at the time of kickoff?

If you answer those 7 questions, at very least you can make an educated guess as to a school that might have been involved in a few close games.

The last two games has raised some questions on how much better Ole Miss truly is on defense. Jury is still out.

I could give you a mountain of useless reasons on why Clemson defense is not better.

LSU is getting better so let's look at them after this weekend.

Before I bore you with my "homer" motivated attempt to close the gap between our defense, Kst., and bama... Let me state that I do feel they have better defenses than us. How much better is my question?

Both basically allow one less touchdown per game. Now the questions start with, Who has played the tougher schedule thus far? Road games against descent opponents? Rate each head coaches philosophy on time of possession? I say #1 Snyder is a clock hog with a methodical offense #2 Saban loves long time consuming drives and is one of the best at managing field position. #3 Gus wants to score on every play and faster than he did the time before

You also brought up that we have a high powered offense. This can be a double edged sword for statistics. The opponent will get the ball more often. The defense will get less rest time. The most important factor... Opposing coaches know they must score to win and open up the playbook. (see the Ole Miss/Alabama, the Arkansas/Miss St, and the Alabama/Arkansas for a different offensive approach to games)

My prediction is that Auburn passes Kansas St and closes on Alabama on points allowed and average margin of victory over the next 4 games.

Alabama is currently +22.5 (playing Lsu, Miss St, W Caro, and Auburn)

Kansas St is currently +16.9 (playing TCU, West V, Kansas, and Baylor)

Auburn is currently +16.8 (playing A&M, Georgia, Samford, and Alabama)

We can get better but we are doing ok.

Understand about the blame-game concerns. The Gus Bus is just 2 years old and already kicking butt and taking names. And I'm not surprised that a defensive architecture like CEJ's is taking time to gel. But that doesn't mean the perceived weaknesses can't be discussed as long as it's an honest discussion about what is and what realistically could be.

You make some good points. It's definitely true that game pace makes a difference in the stats - # of plays, scoring, etc... And yes, the level of competition AU plays is very high, so close games should be expected, but every single game? Won or lost in the last 1:30? Face it. At that point, you are merely swapping scores. Even Baylor's D stops opponents sometimes...

And I know the HBC pulled out all the stops against us and that's been given as a reason some numbers looked high, but why was it AU could shut down 3rd and longs completely, but couldn't stop the very next play?

I don't really think much of the standard statistics found on ESPN or CBSSports, etc.. because they include numbers against cupcakes. That skews the numbers so much you can't get the real picture. There is a post somewhere on this thread that AU's D is 34th on average, but what does that mean when you play SJST and Samford and others are playing 'directional' colleges? I'd love to pull all those numbers again but only for >.400 Power5 teams and see where everyone stands.

I'm not really sold on Clemson's defense being better than AU's, either. I said they might be better, but Auburn's numbers are kind of skewed because they've been great in the Red Zone. Which, unfortunately leads to the point I do believe but hate stating openly, which is that the Tiger defense is really little more than a 'Prevent' defense on pass plays. A disciplined offense with a functional O-line and a decent QB can move down the field by exploiting Star misreads on play-action with short passes across the middle, and if they're smart, they'll strike for the end zone before they reach AU's 20. Step inside the twenty, however, where the D doesn't have to defend a lot of real estate, and the AU athleticism can usually crush the offensive advance. There, I said it. But you made me.

Do this:

1) Go back and watch the AU-Ole Miss game (or USC or MSU). Watch the rush, coverage and tackling.

2) Then go watch Utah play anybody. Watch the way their O-line and linebackers work together like a freaking ballet. Check out the absolutely smothering man2man on the receivers. Yes, it's only the Pac12, but most of those guys probably came with no stars beside their names.

3) Then convince me that I'm crazy to think this D could be much better, Mr. Sunshine Pumper.

WDE!

* Nomex on... *

Agree that it's team D that can and should be improved. I know you meant D-line when talking about Utah's ballet. Thanks for using 'decent' instead of 'descent', though. Makes me want to punch something every time I see that mistake.

Dang -- and I meant to lay off any sort of reasonableness in this thread.

Yo' mama's an idealist, realist!

[McLoofus 35,182]

Something that I've been thinking about that I'll just stick here: when's the last time Auburn appeared in a national championship game and was still in the thick of it for a repeat appearance as late as November the following season? '94 (obvious asterisk notwithstanding)? When's the last time we had this much reason to be optimistic about year #3?

We don't have an effective edge pass rush. Some of our guys in the secondary seem to have regressed into some poor tackling habits. Two guys have a problem with one coach.

What other problems do we have? What else is wrong with Auburn football right now? Because I've got a much, much longer post prepared about what's right about Auburn football right now.

There's a popular refrain that's been going around that goes something like, "If we don't get <problem> fixed, we're going to lose some more games." I'm just curious who these more complete teams are that we're going to play.

[AURealist 2,185]

Agree that it's team D that can and should be improved. I know you meant D-line when talking about Utah's ballet. Thanks for using 'decent' instead of 'descent', though. Makes me want to punch something every time I see that mistake.

Dang -- and I meant to lay off any sort of reasonableness in this thread.

Yo' mama's an idealist, realist!

Thanks for the proof-read. Fixed it.

Mom's one tough lady, being Tiger fan from a family of Bammers.

[AURealist 2,185]

Something that I've been thinking about that I'll just stick here: when's the last time Auburn appeared in a national championship game and was still in the thick of it for a repeat appearance as late as November the following season? '94 (obvious asterisk notwithstanding)? When's the last time we had this much reason to be optimistic about year #3?

We don't have an effective edge pass rush. Some of our guys in the secondary seem to have regressed into some poor tackling habits. Two guys have a problem with one coach.

What other problems do we have? What else is wrong with Auburn football right now? Because I've got a much, much longer post prepared about what's right about Auburn football right now.

There's a popular refrain that's been going around that goes something like, "If we don't get <problem> fixed, we're going to lose some more games." I'm just curious who these more complete teams are that we're going to play.

That's the awesome part. AU really doesn't have many other problems that are apparent to me. The team is humming in its second season as a contender and it looks like CGM has the skill set to organize, inspire and manage an entire program on a national championship scale for the long haul. Can't say that about a lot of coaches - hey, let's just say it - can't say that about most coaches.

That said, if we don't fix the defensive problems, we're likely to lose some games.

[TitanTiger 20,576]

Locking the insult-fest. Don't have time to clean up a 36 page thread. Act like adults, boys.