Americans love torture

[DKW 86 7,423]

I dont know much, but i know i didnt join the military signing up to support torture. We fought Nazis and Tojo and never signed off on torture. If we can defeat them without it, we an defeat anyone without it.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

As long as we insist on maintaining the "high moral ground" we will never win the war on terrorism!!!!

We're in a conflict in which we absolutely insist on playing by the rules against a maniacal group who have NO rules. It is not your Fathers war. Don't send our men and women off to fight with their hands tied. JMHO.

[TexasTiger 12,865]

I dont know much, but i know i didnt join the military signing up to support torture. We fought Nazis and Tojo and never signed off on torture. If we csn defeat them without it, we an defeat anyone without it.

This^

[TexasTiger 12,865]

As long as we insist on maintaining the "high moral ground" we will never win the war on terrorism!!!!

We're in a conflict in which we absolutely insist on playing by the rules against a maniacal group who have NO rules. It is not your Fathers war. Don't send our men and women off to fight with their hands tied. JMHO.

We don't have to sacrifice our dignity and decency to wage war. As David said, we've beat the forces of evil before without sinking to the level you advocate.

[AUUSN 823]

I dont know much, but i know i didnt join the military signing up to support torture. We fought Nazis and Tojo and never signed off on torture. If we csn defeat them without it, we an defeat anyone without it.

Absoluty! Anyone that wants to fight the kind of warfare some advocate can ruck up right now and join the Kurds. Go get you some.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

As long as we insist on maintaining the "high moral ground" we will never win the war on terrorism!!!!

We're in a conflict in which we absolutely insist on playing by the rules against a maniacal group who have NO rules. It is not your Fathers war. Don't send our men and women off to fight with their hands tied. JMHO.

There is absolutely nothing so unique about terrorists that it requires we throw all morality and decency that separates us from the savages out the window.

[alexava 6,973]

As long as we insist on maintaining the "high moral ground" we will never win the war on terrorism!!!!

We're in a conflict in which we absolutely insist on playing by the rules against a maniacal group who have NO rules. It is not your Fathers war. Don't send our men and women off to fight with their hands tied. JMHO.

There is absolutely nothing so unique about terrorists that it requires we throw all morality and decency that separates us from the savages out the window.

yes actually there is. they are plotting attacks with people who live and walk among us without military ties or uniforms. using our own freedoms and liberties to terrorize us, that is fairly unique.

[homersapien 11,373]

As long as we insist on maintaining the "high moral ground" we will never win the war on terrorism!!!!

We're in a conflict in which we absolutely insist on playing by the rules against a maniacal group who have NO rules. It is not your Fathers war. Don't send our men and women off to fight with their hands tied. JMHO.

There is absolutely nothing so unique about terrorists that it requires we throw all morality and decency that separates us from the savages out the window.

yes actually there is. they are plotting attacks with people who live and walk among us without military ties or uniforms. using our own freedoms and liberties to terrorize us, that is fairly unique.

Not really. If you take a "black perspective" that pretty much describes the KKK, back in the time. Actually, in my time.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

As long as we insist on maintaining the "high moral ground" we will never win the war on terrorism!!!!

We're in a conflict in which we absolutely insist on playing by the rules against a maniacal group who have NO rules. It is not your Fathers war. Don't send our men and women off to fight with their hands tied. JMHO.

There is absolutely nothing so unique about terrorists that it requires we throw all morality and decency that separates us from the savages out the window.

yes actually there is. they are plotting attacks with people who live and walk among us without military ties or uniforms. using our own freedoms and liberties to terrorize us, that is fairly unique.

Not really. If you take a "black perspective" that pretty much describes the KKK, in the time. Actually, in my time.

And pretty much every serial killer that ever lived.

None of this is worth trading our humanity, morality and decency. Thinking we should just means you want to be more like them in a way.

[alexava 6,973]

As long as we insist on maintaining the "high moral ground" we will never win the war on terrorism!!!!

We're in a conflict in which we absolutely insist on playing by the rules against a maniacal group who have NO rules. It is not your Fathers war. Don't send our men and women off to fight with their hands tied. JMHO.

There is absolutely nothing so unique about terrorists that it requires we throw all morality and decency that separates us from the savages out the window.

yes actually there is. they are plotting attacks with people who live and walk among us without military ties or uniforms. using our own freedoms and liberties to terrorize us, that is fairly unique.

Not really. If you take a "black perspective" that pretty much describes the KKK, in the time. Actually, in my time.

ok. then i would torture KKK plotters too.

[alexava 6,973]

As long as we insist on maintaining the "high moral ground" we will never win the war on terrorism!!!!

We're in a conflict in which we absolutely insist on playing by the rules against a maniacal group who have NO rules. It is not your Fathers war. Don't send our men and women off to fight with their hands tied. JMHO.

There is absolutely nothing so unique about terrorists that it requires we throw all morality and decency that separates us from the savages out the window.

yes actually there is. they are plotting attacks with people who live and walk among us without military ties or uniforms. using our own freedoms and liberties to terrorize us, that is fairly unique.

Not really. If you take a "black perspective" that pretty much describes the KKK, in the time. Actually, in my time.

And pretty much every serial killer that ever lived.

None of this is worth trading our humanity, morality and decency. Thinking we should just means you want to be more like them in a way.

In what way?

and serial killers usually work alone. once you catch him there is not much need to torture him. Stopping terrorism is worth trading your idea of humanity, morality and decency. i dont consider terrorists human anyway.

[homersapien 11,373]

Frankly Alexava, you are starting to sound a little scary yourself.

[DKW 86 7,423]

As long as we insist on maintaining the "high moral ground" we will never win the war on terrorism!!!!

We're in a conflict in which we absolutely insist on playing by the rules against a maniacal group who have NO rules. It is not your Fathers war. Don't send our men and women off to fight with their hands tied. JMHO.

There is absolutely nothing so unique about terrorists that it requires we throw all morality and decency that separates us from the savages out the window.

yes actually there is. they are plotting attacks with people who live and walk among us without military ties or uniforms. using our own freedoms and liberties to terrorize us, that is fairly unique.

Not really. If you take a "black perspective" that pretty much describes the KKK, in the time. Actually, in my time.

And pretty much every serial killer that ever lived.

None of this is worth trading our humanity, morality and decency. Thinking we should just means you want to be more like them in a way.

If you trade your morality and decency then they have already won. The Nazis were as big if not bigger monsters, capable of as much evil as anyone ever on the face of the earth. They gunned down whole villages, forced labor camps, murdered at will, etc. These terrorists are certainly no worse than that. If we give away our humanity than we are no better than they are. Those of us who joined up and "rucked up" as AUUSN says know it like it is in our blood/dna. I do not have to like what you say to be able to defend your right to say it.

[alexava 6,973]

Frankly Alexava, you are starting to sound a little scary yourself.

thx

[alexava 6,973]

As long as we insist on maintaining the "high moral ground" we will never win the war on terrorism!!!!

We're in a conflict in which we absolutely insist on playing by the rules against a maniacal group who have NO rules. It is not your Fathers war. Don't send our men and women off to fight with their hands tied. JMHO.

There is absolutely nothing so unique about terrorists that it requires we throw all morality and decency that separates us from the savages out the window.

yes actually there is. they are plotting attacks with people who live and walk among us without military ties or uniforms. using our own freedoms and liberties to terrorize us, that is fairly unique.

Not really. If you take a "black perspective" that pretty much describes the KKK, in the time. Actually, in my time.

And pretty much every serial killer that ever lived.

None of this is worth trading our humanity, morality and decency. Thinking we should just means you want to be more like them in a way.

If you trade your morality and decency then they have already won. The Nazis were as big if not bigger monsters, capable of as much evil as anyone ever on the face of the earth. They gunned down whole villages, forced labor camps, murdered at will, etc. These terrorists are certainly no worse than that. If we give away our humanity than we are no better than they are. Those of us who joined up and "rucked up" as AUUSN says know it like it is in our blood/dna. I do not have to like what you say to be able to defend your right to say it.

I don't deny they are winning. I want to prevent them from their goal of wiping us out. I will not ask the intelligence agencies to handcuff themselves in the name of morality and human decency for an enemy that plays by a different set of rules. i am much more troubled with the loss in innocent lives(children)by the bullets and bombs of our military in war torn countries than i am the humane treatment of the a**holes that caused it. I have a ton of morality, humanity, decency, it's just for peaceful people, even large populations of people who hate us but cause no harm. It's the handful who are actually trying to kill us that have forfeited their right to humane treatment.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

As long as we insist on maintaining the "high moral ground" we will never win the war on terrorism!!!!

We're in a conflict in which we absolutely insist on playing by the rules against a maniacal group who have NO rules. It is not your Fathers war. Don't send our men and women off to fight with their hands tied. JMHO.

There is absolutely nothing so unique about terrorists that it requires we throw all morality and decency that separates us from the savages out the window.

yes actually there is. they are plotting attacks with people who live and walk among us without military ties or uniforms. using our own freedoms and liberties to terrorize us, that is fairly unique.

Not really. If you take a "black perspective" that pretty much describes the KKK, in the time. Actually, in my time.

And pretty much every serial killer that ever lived.

None of this is worth trading our humanity, morality and decency. Thinking we should just means you want to be more like them in a way.

In what way?

and serial killers usually work alone. once you catch him there is not much need to torture him. Stopping terrorism is worth trading your idea of humanity, morality and decency. i dont consider terrorists human anyway.

You stated it yourself. When you stop considering certain people human so that you can do whatever you want or feel you need to, you've taken the first step toward thinking and behaving like a terrorist.

[homersapien 11,373]

As long as we insist on maintaining the "high moral ground" we will never win the war on terrorism!!!!

We're in a conflict in which we absolutely insist on playing by the rules against a maniacal group who have NO rules. It is not your Fathers war. Don't send our men and women off to fight with their hands tied. JMHO.

There is absolutely nothing so unique about terrorists that it requires we throw all morality and decency that separates us from the savages out the window.

yes actually there is. they are plotting attacks with people who live and walk among us without military ties or uniforms. using our own freedoms and liberties to terrorize us, that is fairly unique.

Not really. If you take a "black perspective" that pretty much describes the KKK, in the time. Actually, in my time.

And pretty much every serial killer that ever lived.

None of this is worth trading our humanity, morality and decency. Thinking we should just means you want to be more like them in a way.

If you trade your morality and decency then they have already won. The Nazis were as big if not bigger monsters, capable of as much evil as anyone ever on the face of the earth. They gunned down whole villages, forced labor camps, murdered at will, etc. These terrorists are certainly no worse than that. If we give away our humanity than we are no better than they are. Those of us who joined up and "rucked up" as AUUSN says know it like it is in our blood/dna. I do not have to like what you say to be able to defend your right to say it.

I don't deny they are winning. I want to prevent them from their goal of wiping us out. I will not ask the intelligence agencies to handcuff themselves in the name of morality and human decency for an enemy that plays by a different set of rules. i am much more troubled with the loss in innocent lives(children)by the bullets and bombs of our military in war torn countries than i am the humane treatment of the a**holes that caused it. I have a ton of morality, humanity, decency, it's just for peaceful people, even large populations of people who hate us but cause no harm. It's the handful who are actually trying to kill us that have forfeited their right to humane treatment.

"Wipe us out"? :-\

This is not a traditional existential struggle. They can't "wipe us out". But they can effectively wipe out our values and transform us into something that is much more like themselves.

Apparently, they have made a lot of progress with you. (Assuming you didn't hold these views prior to Al Queda, et al.)

[alexava 6,973]

As long as we insist on maintaining the "high moral ground" we will never win the war on terrorism!!!!

We're in a conflict in which we absolutely insist on playing by the rules against a maniacal group who have NO rules. It is not your Fathers war. Don't send our men and women off to fight with their hands tied. JMHO.

There is absolutely nothing so unique about terrorists that it requires we throw all morality and decency that separates us from the savages out the window.

yes actually there is. they are plotting attacks with people who live and walk among us without military ties or uniforms. using our own freedoms and liberties to terrorize us, that is fairly unique.

Not really. If you take a "black perspective" that pretty much describes the KKK, in the time. Actually, in my time.

And pretty much every serial killer that ever lived.

None of this is worth trading our humanity, morality and decency. Thinking we should just means you want to be more like them in a way.

If you trade your morality and decency then they have already won. The Nazis were as big if not bigger monsters, capable of as much evil as anyone ever on the face of the earth. They gunned down whole villages, forced labor camps, murdered at will, etc. These terrorists are certainly no worse than that. If we give away our humanity than we are no better than they are. Those of us who joined up and "rucked up" as AUUSN says know it like it is in our blood/dna. I do not have to like what you say to be able to defend your right to say it.

I don't deny they are winning. I want to prevent them from their goal of wiping us out. I will not ask the intelligence agencies to handcuff themselves in the name of morality and human decency for an enemy that plays by a different set of rules. i am much more troubled with the loss in innocent lives(children)by the bullets and bombs of our military in war torn countries than i am the humane treatment of the a**holes that caused it. I have a ton of morality, humanity, decency, it's just for peaceful people, even large populations of people who hate us but cause no harm. It's the handful who are actually trying to kill us that have forfeited their right to humane treatment.

"Wipe us out"? :-\

This is not a traditional existential struggle. They can't "wipe us out". But they can effectively wipe out our values and transform us into something that is much more like themselves.

Apparently, they have made a lot of progress with you. (Assuming you didn't hold these views prior to Al Queda, et al.)

prior to 9/11 i never considered them to have the ability or intelligence to hit us at home that hard. they do want to wipe us out. they are doing whatever they can without rules of humanity to impede them. like others have mentioned i am more bothered by airstrikes and drone missions that we sometimes KNOW there will be innocent lives taken to eliminate certain threats. if these "humans" are worth killing innocent children to take them out then when they are captured i support anything that might possibly make them cooperate. i dont know how effective torture is but if it works 5% of the time i'll sign off on it.

[alexava 6,973]

I have seen the Geneva convention mentioned. I dont think these rules should apply to terrorists who are not backed by a sovereign state anyway.

[autigeremt 6,615]

Like the back and forth but a more serious question.

What do you think about drone strikes in countries not called Iraq or Afghanistan that kill operatives of terror and cause collateral damage? I'm being serious here...not trying to derail this wonderful discussion.

I am conflicted. It's much more ambiguous from a moral standpoint than torturing prisoners. There is no "equivalence" IMO.

In war we have often bombed or shelled with the sure knowledge that "collateral damage" will be inevitable. Does actually seeing the "collateral damage" before impact change the morality of the action? I am inclined to say no.

But I also recognize that undeclared, asymmetric wars come with a lot of moral ambiguities. Things were much simpler when dealing with existential war with a nation-state.

This probably deserves it's own thread.

Rendition? I mean, if we are to aim at former Bush Admin types we have to also aim at the current Admins ability to shift responsibility by using rendition as well. I'm just trying to understand the real differences here between killing people and allowing someone to live after EIT.

Sorry, I don't understand your response.

President Obama used rendition early on during his first term. Do we go after him as well?

[homersapien 11,373]

Like the back and forth but a more serious question.

What do you think about drone strikes in countries not called Iraq or Afghanistan that kill operatives of terror and cause collateral damage? I'm being serious here...not trying to derail this wonderful discussion.

I am conflicted. It's much more ambiguous from a moral standpoint than torturing prisoners. There is no "equivalence" IMO.

In war we have often bombed or shelled with the sure knowledge that "collateral damage" will be inevitable. Does actually seeing the "collateral damage" before impact change the morality of the action? I am inclined to say no.

But I also recognize that undeclared, asymmetric wars come with a lot of moral ambiguities. Things were much simpler when dealing with existential war with a nation-state.

This probably deserves it's own thread.

Rendition? I mean, if we are to aim at former Bush Admin types we have to also aim at the current Admins ability to shift responsibility by using rendition as well. I'm just trying to understand the real differences here between killing people and allowing someone to live after EIT.

Sorry, I don't understand your response.

President Obama used rendition early on during his first term. Do we go after him as well?

Are you changing the subject? I was asked about drone warfare.

[homersapien 11,373]

As long as we insist on maintaining the "high moral ground" we will never win the war on terrorism!!!!

We're in a conflict in which we absolutely insist on playing by the rules against a maniacal group who have NO rules. It is not your Fathers war. Don't send our men and women off to fight with their hands tied. JMHO.

There is absolutely nothing so unique about terrorists that it requires we throw all morality and decency that separates us from the savages out the window.

yes actually there is. they are plotting attacks with people who live and walk among us without military ties or uniforms. using our own freedoms and liberties to terrorize us, that is fairly unique.

Not really. If you take a "black perspective" that pretty much describes the KKK, in the time. Actually, in my time.

And pretty much every serial killer that ever lived.

None of this is worth trading our humanity, morality and decency. Thinking we should just means you want to be more like them in a way.

If you trade your morality and decency then they have already won. The Nazis were as big if not bigger monsters, capable of as much evil as anyone ever on the face of the earth. They gunned down whole villages, forced labor camps, murdered at will, etc. These terrorists are certainly no worse than that. If we give away our humanity than we are no better than they are. Those of us who joined up and "rucked up" as AUUSN says know it like it is in our blood/dna. I do not have to like what you say to be able to defend your right to say it.

I don't deny they are winning. I want to prevent them from their goal of wiping us out. I will not ask the intelligence agencies to handcuff themselves in the name of morality and human decency for an enemy that plays by a different set of rules. i am much more troubled with the loss in innocent lives(children)by the bullets and bombs of our military in war torn countries than i am the humane treatment of the a**holes that caused it. I have a ton of morality, humanity, decency, it's just for peaceful people, even large populations of people who hate us but cause no harm. It's the handful who are actually trying to kill us that have forfeited their right to humane treatment.

"Wipe us out"? :-\

This is not a traditional existential struggle. They can't "wipe us out". But they can effectively wipe out our values and transform us into something that is much more like themselves.

Apparently, they have made a lot of progress with you. (Assuming you didn't hold these views prior to Al Queda, et al.)

prior to 9/11 i never considered them to have the ability or intelligence to hit us at home that hard. they do want to wipe us out. they are doing whatever they can without rules of humanity to impede them. like others have mentioned i am more bothered by airstrikes and drone missions that we sometimes KNOW there will be innocent lives taken to eliminate certain threats. if these "humans" are worth killing innocent children to take them out then when they are captured i support anything that might possibly make them cooperate. i dont know how effective torture is but if it works 5% of the time i'll sign off on it.

Most people - and historically speaking - there has been a judicial and moral distinction between trying to kill the enemy while at large and how you treat him after capture.

Tell, me would you be OK with skinning them alive or slowly burning them (for example)?

[alexava 6,973]

As long as we insist on maintaining the "high moral ground" we will never win the war on terrorism!!!!

We're in a conflict in which we absolutely insist on playing by the rules against a maniacal group who have NO rules. It is not your Fathers war. Don't send our men and women off to fight with their hands tied. JMHO.

There is absolutely nothing so unique about terrorists that it requires we throw all morality and decency that separates us from the savages out the window.

yes actually there is. they are plotting attacks with people who live and walk among us without military ties or uniforms. using our own freedoms and liberties to terrorize us, that is fairly unique.

Not really. If you take a "black perspective" that pretty much describes the KKK, in the time. Actually, in my time.

And pretty much every serial killer that ever lived.

None of this is worth trading our humanity, morality and decency. Thinking we should just means you want to be more like them in a way.

If you trade your morality and decency then they have already won. The Nazis were as big if not bigger monsters, capable of as much evil as anyone ever on the face of the earth. They gunned down whole villages, forced labor camps, murdered at will, etc. These terrorists are certainly no worse than that. If we give away our humanity than we are no better than they are. Those of us who joined up and "rucked up" as AUUSN says know it like it is in our blood/dna. I do not have to like what you say to be able to defend your right to say it.

I don't deny they are winning. I want to prevent them from their goal of wiping us out. I will not ask the intelligence agencies to handcuff themselves in the name of morality and human decency for an enemy that plays by a different set of rules. i am much more troubled with the loss in innocent lives(children)by the bullets and bombs of our military in war torn countries than i am the humane treatment of the a**holes that caused it. I have a ton of morality, humanity, decency, it's just for peaceful people, even large populations of people who hate us but cause no harm. It's the handful who are actually trying to kill us that have forfeited their right to humane treatment.

"Wipe us out"? :-\

This is not a traditional existential struggle. They can't "wipe us out". But they can effectively wipe out our values and transform us into something that is much more like themselves.

Apparently, they have made a lot of progress with you. (Assuming you didn't hold these views prior to Al Queda, et al.)

prior to 9/11 i never considered them to have the ability or intelligence to hit us at home that hard. they do want to wipe us out. they are doing whatever they can without rules of humanity to impede them. like others have mentioned i am more bothered by airstrikes and drone missions that we sometimes KNOW there will be innocent lives taken to eliminate certain threats. if these "humans" are worth killing innocent children to take them out then when they are captured i support anything that might possibly make them cooperate. i dont know how effective torture is but if it works 5% of the time i'll sign off on it.

Most people - and historically speaking - there has been a judicial and moral distinction between trying to kill the enemy while at large and how you treat him after capture.

Tell, me would you be OK with skinning them alive or slowly burning them (for example)?

i am for whatever gets them to talk. If skinning them or burning them works then do it but i need not know about it. remember i would only consider torture for people that are absolutely known terrorists, not suspected. i dont think that would happen anyway.

[homersapien 11,373]

As long as we insist on maintaining the "high moral ground" we will never win the war on terrorism!!!!

We're in a conflict in which we absolutely insist on playing by the rules against a maniacal group who have NO rules. It is not your Fathers war. Don't send our men and women off to fight with their hands tied. JMHO.

There is absolutely nothing so unique about terrorists that it requires we throw all morality and decency that separates us from the savages out the window.

yes actually there is. they are plotting attacks with people who live and walk among us without military ties or uniforms. using our own freedoms and liberties to terrorize us, that is fairly unique.

Not really. If you take a "black perspective" that pretty much describes the KKK, in the time. Actually, in my time.

And pretty much every serial killer that ever lived.

None of this is worth trading our humanity, morality and decency. Thinking we should just means you want to be more like them in a way.

If you trade your morality and decency then they have already won. The Nazis were as big if not bigger monsters, capable of as much evil as anyone ever on the face of the earth. They gunned down whole villages, forced labor camps, murdered at will, etc. These terrorists are certainly no worse than that. If we give away our humanity than we are no better than they are. Those of us who joined up and "rucked up" as AUUSN says know it like it is in our blood/dna. I do not have to like what you say to be able to defend your right to say it.

I don't deny they are winning. I want to prevent them from their goal of wiping us out. I will not ask the intelligence agencies to handcuff themselves in the name of morality and human decency for an enemy that plays by a different set of rules. i am much more troubled with the loss in innocent lives(children)by the bullets and bombs of our military in war torn countries than i am the humane treatment of the a**holes that caused it. I have a ton of morality, humanity, decency, it's just for peaceful people, even large populations of people who hate us but cause no harm. It's the handful who are actually trying to kill us that have forfeited their right to humane treatment.

"Wipe us out"? :-\

This is not a traditional existential struggle. They can't "wipe us out". But they can effectively wipe out our values and transform us into something that is much more like themselves.

Apparently, they have made a lot of progress with you. (Assuming you didn't hold these views prior to Al Queda, et al.)

prior to 9/11 i never considered them to have the ability or intelligence to hit us at home that hard. they do want to wipe us out. they are doing whatever they can without rules of humanity to impede them. like others have mentioned i am more bothered by airstrikes and drone missions that we sometimes KNOW there will be innocent lives taken to eliminate certain threats. if these "humans" are worth killing innocent children to take them out then when they are captured i support anything that might possibly make them cooperate. i dont know how effective torture is but if it works 5% of the time i'll sign off on it.

Most people - and historically speaking - there has been a judicial and moral distinction between trying to kill the enemy while at large and how you treat him after capture.

Tell, me would you be OK with skinning them alive or slowly burning them (for example)?

i am for whatever gets them to talk. If skinning them or burning them works then do it but i need not know about it. remember i would only consider torture for people that are absolutely known terrorists, not suspected. i dont think that would happen anyway.

Man, you are really starting to freak me out now.

[aujeff11 6,243]

As long as we insist on maintaining the "high moral ground" we will never win the war on terrorism!!!!

We're in a conflict in which we absolutely insist on playing by the rules against a maniacal group who have NO rules. It is not your Fathers war. Don't send our men and women off to fight with their hands tied. JMHO.

There is absolutely nothing so unique about terrorists that it requires we throw all morality and decency that separates us from the savages out the window.

yes actually there is. they are plotting attacks with people who live and walk among us without military ties or uniforms. using our own freedoms and liberties to terrorize us, that is fairly unique.

Not really. If you take a "black perspective" that pretty much describes the KKK, in the time. Actually, in my time.

And pretty much every serial killer that ever lived.

None of this is worth trading our humanity, morality and decency. Thinking we should just means you want to be more like them in a way.

If you trade your morality and decency then they have already won. The Nazis were as big if not bigger monsters, capable of as much evil as anyone ever on the face of the earth. They gunned down whole villages, forced labor camps, murdered at will, etc. These terrorists are certainly no worse than that. If we give away our humanity than we are no better than they are. Those of us who joined up and "rucked up" as AUUSN says know it like it is in our blood/dna. I do not have to like what you say to be able to defend your right to say it.

I don't deny they are winning. I want to prevent them from their goal of wiping us out. I will not ask the intelligence agencies to handcuff themselves in the name of morality and human decency for an enemy that plays by a different set of rules. i am much more troubled with the loss in innocent lives(children)by the bullets and bombs of our military in war torn countries than i am the humane treatment of the a**holes that caused it. I have a ton of morality, humanity, decency, it's just for peaceful people, even large populations of people who hate us but cause no harm. It's the handful who are actually trying to kill us that have forfeited their right to humane treatment.

"Wipe us out"? :-\

This is not a traditional existential struggle. They can't "wipe us out". But they can effectively wipe out our values and transform us into something that is much more like themselves.

Apparently, they have made a lot of progress with you. (Assuming you didn't hold these views prior to Al Queda, et al.)

prior to 9/11 i never considered them to have the ability or intelligence to hit us at home that hard. they do want to wipe us out. they are doing whatever they can without rules of humanity to impede them. like others have mentioned i am more bothered by airstrikes and drone missions that we sometimes KNOW there will be innocent lives taken to eliminate certain threats. if these "humans" are worth killing innocent children to take them out then when they are captured i support anything that might possibly make them cooperate. i dont know how effective torture is but if it works 5% of the time i'll sign off on it.

Most people - and historically speaking - there has been a judicial and moral distinction between trying to kill the enemy while at large and how you treat him after capture.

Tell, me would you be OK with skinning them alive or slowly burning them (for example)?

i am for whatever gets them to talk. If skinning them or burning them works then do it but i need not know about it. remember i would only consider torture for people that are absolutely known terrorists, not suspected. i dont think that would happen anyway.

Man, you are really starting to freak me out now.

I don't know about skinning them alive...lol but I think terrorists should be extra motivated to talk quickly