Americans love torture

[TexasTiger 12,835]

Very disheartening-- particularly the breakdown along religious lines:

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/12/22/americans-learn-to-stop-worrying-and-love-torture/

We are a country that has lost it's way.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Agreed. This line is the damning one: "The Senate Report concludes from a mountain of CIA documents that no good intelligence was procured through torture – and yet by 2 – 1, Americans prefer to believe a fantasy, peddled only by the torturers themselves."

People choose to disbelieve what they've been told for years by most expert interrogators (that torture is one of the least effective methods of extracting good intel) prior to this report and persist in not believing it even when the CIA's own documents bolster the point.

In other words, this is really about extracting a pound of flesh...vengeance, not necessity. The terrorists "deserve it"...useful information be damned.

[AUUSN 823]

Americans have been sheltered from the suffering. They don't know or understand what they support. They use emotion to guide their thinking rather than experiences.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

There's also this mistaken notion that to be opposed to torture signals some sort of sympathy for terrorists. It has nothing to do with that. I think the terrorists are evil. My (and others') opposition both moral and practical.

1. I believe it is against everything the Jesus/Bible teaches.

2. I believe that performing torture on another human, however despicable that human may be, damages the soul/psyche of the person doing it.

3. It does not give us the best, most reliable and useful intel which ostensibly is the whole point of doing this sort of stuff in the first place.

Even if you disagree with the first two, the last point should be enough. Do what really works and doesn't waste precious time, effort and people chasing down idiotic stuff a person under extreme duress says because he thinks it's what you want to hear.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

Well, well. At least the three progressive lib liars agree. The DOJ for both the Bush and Obama administrations disagree with you. No prosecutions because there was no "torture".

[TitanTiger 20,472]

1. Call me a liar again and it'll be the last time you do it here.

2. The DOJ is hardly a disinterested, uninvested third party here. Plus, "legal" and "moral" are not the synonyms. It also helps when you get to decide what the meaning of a word is for legal purposes.

3. That you think I'm a "lib" utterly cuts your credibility off at the knees. You couldn't be more clueless if you called yourself Cher and hung out with Alicia Silverstone.

[TexasTiger 12,835]

There's also this mistaken notion that to be opposed to torture signals some sort of sympathy for terrorists. It has nothing to do with that. I think the terrorists are evil. My (and others') opposition both moral and practical.

1. I believe it is against everything the Jesus/Bible teaches.

2. I believe that performing torture on another human, however despicable that human may be, damages the soul/psyche of the person doing it.

3. It does not give us the best, most reliable and useful intel which ostensibly is the whole point of doing this sort of stuff in the first place.

Even if you disagree with the first two, the last point should be enough. Do what really works and doesn't waste precious time, effort and people chasing down idiotic stuff a person under extreme duress says because he thinks it's what you want to hear.

This.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

1. Call me a liar again and it'll be the last time you do it here.

2. The DOJ is hardly a disinterested, uninvested third party here. Plus, "legal" and "moral" are not the synonyms. It also helps when you get to decide what the meaning of a word is for legal purposes.

3. That you think I'm a "lib" utterly cuts your credibility off at the knees. You couldn't be more clueless if you called yourself Cher and hung out with Alicia Silverstone.

You are a liberal......very liberal. Get used to being described as you are.....liberal.

If there were ANY credence to your assertions of torture the Obama administration would have fulfilled the demands that the left made to prosecute those involved, which never happened and never will.

[TexasTiger 12,835]

Well, well. At least the three progressive lib liars agree. The DOJ for both the Bush and Obama administrations disagree with you. No prosecutions because there was no "torture".

I guess you can call me a "lib", particularly on the spectrum provided on this forum-- folks on truly liberal forums don't see me as such when I disagree with them. AUUSN and Titan strike me as moderate, thoughtful Republicans from a now bygone era. I doubt you can prove any of us have lied on this forum, although I know you pervert that word's meaning to suit your agenda, which is a form of deception in its own right.

[AURaptor 1,122]

I know I love torturing !! Hell yeah!

[TheBlueVue 177]

There's also this mistaken notion that to be opposed to torture signals some sort of sympathy for terrorists. It has nothing to do with that. I think the terrorists are evil. My (and others') opposition both moral and practical.

1. I believe it is against everything the Jesus/Bible teaches.

2. I believe that performing torture on another human, however despicable that human may be, damages the soul/psyche of the person doing it.

3. It does not give us the best, most reliable and useful intel which ostensibly is the whole point of doing this sort of stuff in the first place.

Even if you disagree with the first two, the last point should be enough. Do what really works and doesn't waste precious time, effort and people chasing down idiotic stuff a person under extreme duress says because he thinks it's what you want to hear.

Well, not surprisingly, I disagree with all 3. Most importantly, I would say, include me among the those who believe, like the leader of the program for the CIA said, if the person being interrogated can get up and walk away from it when its over, it is not torture. To suggest that people love torture seems to fall into that category of hyperventilating which you love to so often accuse republicans of doing. No other country in the world is more compliant with the terms of the Geneva Convention that the USA. ALL the techniques employed were thoroughly vetted by 2 different admin Justice Depts and it was deemed that they did not constitute torture. To arbitrarily state that Americans have lost their way because they approve of doing what was done and was felt to be necessary at the time to protect Americans is hyperventilation at its finest but, to each his own.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Fantasy....a word describing the Senate Report which says no good intel was obtained.

Question....Titan why do you get so upset when you call someone brainless and he respond with name calling in kind

[Elephant Tipper 430]

Don't say you weren't warned. Enjoy a day off. Come back with the same attitude and you'll be gone for good.

[AUUSN 823]

Well, well. At least the three progressive lib liars agree. The DOJ for both the Bush and Obama administrations disagree with you. No prosecutions because there was no "torture".

If that's your response then I know I'm on the right side of this issue. I've posted more reference material on this than most here. You just post nonsense. Go through my post history and educate yourself.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Listen up ET....AUUSN knows all.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

You are a liberal......very liberal. Get used to being described as you are.....liberal.

As I said...clueless. Embarrassingly so.

[AUUSN 823]

Listen up ET....AUUSN knows all.

Will someone please pay this lonely old man some attention? He won't stop trolling me.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Most importantly, I would say, include me among the those who believe, like the leader of the program for the CIA said, if the person being interrogated can get up and walk away from it when its over, it is not torture.

...which is a definition of torture that no one historically has ever subscribed to.

To suggest that people love torture seems to fall into that category of hyperventilating which you love to so often accuse republicans of doing.

This would be an awesome response had a suggested such a thing. Since I didn't, it's just a red herring.

No other country in the world is more compliant with the terms of the Geneva Convention that the USA. ALL the techniques employed were thoroughly vetted by 2 different admin Justice Depts and it was deemed that they did not constitute torture. To arbitrarily state that Americans have lost their way because they approve of doing what was done and was felt to be necessary at the time to protect Americans is hyperventilation at its finest but, to each his own.

If you can redefine the terms, it's easy to conclude it doesn't constitute torture. But forget the labels...I'm saying that what we did, no matter the label you wish to place on it, was morally wrong and largely ineffective to boot.

[TheBlueVue 177]

You are a liberal......very liberal. Get used to being described as you are.....liberal.

As I said...clueless. Embarrassingly so.

You are a liberal......very liberal. Get used to being described as you are.....liberal.

As I said...clueless. Embarrassingly so.

I dont know about that. I very rarely see anything you post that confirms a conservative perspective except when the topic is the thought police and even many liberals think those people routinely go too far.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

AUUSN....trolling you? You said yesterday you found my posts entertaining. Just trying to keep you smiling.

Old men will out do young punks every time.

[TexasTiger 12,835]

You are a liberal......very liberal. Get used to being described as you are.....liberal.

As I said...clueless. Embarrassingly so.

You are a liberal......very liberal. Get used to being described as you are.....liberal.

As I said...clueless. Embarrassingly so.

I dont know about that. I very rarely see anything you post that confirms a conservative perspective except when the topic is the thought police and even many liberals think those people routinely go too far.

I've seen several over the years. We've disagreed on a number of things. The difference is he's actually thoughtful and there are so many over-the-top, knee-jerk assertions that tend to dominate this forum that he ends up responding to. He's definitely center-right, but he's not a caricature.

[TheBlueVue 177]

You are a liberal......very liberal. Get used to being described as you are.....liberal.

As I said...clueless. Embarrassingly so.

You are a liberal......very liberal. Get used to being described as you are.....liberal.

As I said...clueless. Embarrassingly so.

I dont know about that. I very rarely see anything you post that confirms a conservative perspective except when the topic is the thought police and even many liberals think those people routinely go too far.

I've seen several over the years. We've disagreed on a number of things. The difference is he's actually thoughtful and there are so many over-the-top, knee-jerk assertions that tend to dominate this forum that he ends up responding to. He's definitely center-right, but he's not a caricature.

I would say center, at best, but that's just my view. I really haven't read that many of his posts just the ones that were responses to me. I would definitely not agree he leans to the right based solely on his consistent criticism of conservative politics and I have no problem with that. As is the case in all things, it is what it is.

[autigeremt 6,601]

Very disheartening-- particularly the breakdown along religious lines:

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/12/22/americans-learn-to-stop-worrying-and-love-torture/

We are a country that has lost it's way.

We have lost our compass on many fronts, including some you might even support. The ship has been listing for a long time and I believe the water is coming in faster than we can bail. This report is minor in nature compared to what we do to our own people in the name of "equality" or "progress". Neither of our political parties care in the grand scheme of things.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

You are a liberal......very liberal. Get used to being described as you are.....liberal.

As I said...clueless. Embarrassingly so.

You are a liberal......very liberal. Get used to being described as you are.....liberal.

As I said...clueless. Embarrassingly so.

I dont know about that. I very rarely see anything you post that confirms a conservative perspective except when the topic is the thought police and even many liberals think those people routinely go too far.

Translation: "You don't affirm all of the contemporary GOP talking points on all the issues, therefore you a liberal."

[TheBlueVue 177]

You are a liberal......very liberal. Get used to being described as you are.....liberal.

As I said...clueless. Embarrassingly so.

You are a liberal......very liberal. Get used to being described as you are.....liberal.

As I said...clueless. Embarrassingly so.

I dont know about that. I very rarely see anything you post that confirms a conservative perspective except when the topic is the thought police and even many liberals think those people routinely go too far.

Translation: "You don't affirm all of the contemporary GOP talking points on all the issues, therefore you a liberal."

Nope but I can certainly understand that being YOUR take.