If you have to choose one scenario...

[Tiger 8,822]

In light of the discipline/behavioral/scary crime and fatal issues that have started becoming more and more common over the last 5 or so years at Auburn, I'd be interested in seeing what the board's reaction would be to the following "This/That" proposition.

Would you, as an Auburn fan, prefer Auburn to be a perennial 8-9 win team, but have minimal player misconduct off of the field? This would mean less talent on the field, but smarter/better character guys off of it which would not drag the schools name through mud.

Or would you rather haul in the top recruiting classes each year and deal with off the field issues but live with having 10+ wins for the majority of the time, being in the SEC championship and playoff hunt each year.

I know these aren't necessarily mutually exclusive in real life (Deandre Green, Tray Blackmon under Tubs), but I do not think it is a coincidence once Tubby left and the recruiting classes started finishing in the national top 10 is when the off the field issue started to become more prevalent. I'd think there is some sort of balance that can be achieved but AU has not been able to find it.

If you don't mind, post your age as well! I'm very curious to see if there is any correlation with a poster's age and which side they choose. Even if you don't agree that AU has had a problem over the past handful of years, I'd still like to know which you'd prefer.

WDE!

[wildlife alumni 304]

I do not worry as much about the character going into AU (unless there are obvious red flags). However, to me it is more about how the coaches handle things when they come up. From what I have seen there is not much difference between star and a five star, both have the same chance of messing up. They are, for the most part eighteen years old and you will have some do stupid things. If the coachs only recruited choir boys that have never done anything wrong we would be looking at 3 win seasons if even that and the coaches would be looking for new jobs. Get the best character kids you can and try to make them AU men.

[gr82be 14,423]

54. I thought we had been having some if our better concensus recruiting years the past 5 or so years. That being said we haven't been able to string together two 10 win seasons since Pat Dye was coaching. I want both top tier talent and no problems but I'm not sure its possible for every year. I would love to have only players with the utmost character and ideal behavior. Truth is your going to have both good kids and challenges regardless because you can't predict how the college experience will affect a kid until they get there. Back to the point of the post, when we can string together multiple 10+ win seasons then we will have a way to compare. Until then we are regretably a mixture of both options. I believe in Gus and his coaching staff and I do believe the 10+ win seasons are going to be a regular occurrence.

[WarTim 3,456]

54 Character matters. I want young men that will represent Auburn in the best way possible. I have never worried too much about "star" rankings. If Gus and staff think the player is the right fit, works for me. In the end the Staff will be held responsible either way....right?

[AUIH1 1,515]

Age 51 with a BS degree in Biology from AU. I tutored AU athletes from 1982 - 1985. We did not have a bunch of choir boys on the football team then either. I totally understand and accept that AU is a football factory in terms of athletics and that we are recruiting from the same gene pool as our rivals. I am extremely hard our our coaches (especially football and basketball) because they are being paid to produce at a top level. I give our players a pass until they screw up off of the field.

Regarding football, we recruit screw ups characterwise all of the time (heck he even take our rivals screw ups). I am not a big fan of it, but if our coaches can stop them from being screw ups then War Eagle!!

EDIT: Although historically we have been about a 7-8 win team, our coaches are now getting paid far too much to put up with that average for very long.

wde

[weagl1 1,782]

I just don't think you can categorize young men that way, especially when you are recruiting them as 18 year olds. Kids make mistakes, sometimes as a result of just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. No we don't want thugs in Auburn on the football team or in the community, but it's not written on their forehead. I've seen kids with dreadlocks, tattoos and all that junk who were nice respectful people who wouldn't hurt anyone and I've see clean cut ones who would just as soon shoot you as look at you. You just can't get inside their heads and that is what you seem to be suggesting the coaching staff should do. Even if they could do that brain research studies show that the juvenile brain does not fully develop until the mid-20's and that is why we are prone to such erractic behavior when we are young. The technical explanation I have heard is there is not enough white matter connecting the frontal lobe with the rest of the brain, which allows kids to learn more quickly but be much more prone to erractic behavior than adults.

Regardless of any of the above, the coaching staff is going to be judged by wins and losses and how they do against our major rivals. Maybe that is not how it should be, but if auburn goes 4 - 8 and Bama beats them by 40 points none of you will be talking about what high character players we have, you can bet on that.

And to answer your last question I am an old guy 60+.

[AU64 10,122]

73, BS,MBA and I've said for years that the only time I've read anything negative about Auburn University is when something in the athletic program goes amiss....whether it is an individual player or the program as a whole.

I was in school during probation and watched Shug's teams get shut out by Bama for 4 years. As noted by someone above, AU has a football factory reputation and I've watched school presidents and Deans of various departments work to raise the academic standing of Auburn with modest state support. In many schools AU has risen above what many might expect of a public university located in a state ranked in the bottom 3 or 4 in the nation for public school performance....and I am more proud of the rankings of our Business School and Engineering School than our sports program as I think they have had higher hills to climb.

The athletes that get in trouble and bring national attention to Auburn are not typical of our outstanding student body. I would like to see AU have 9 or 10 win seasons on a regular basis without the drama of arrests, fights, etc. Perhaps that is too idealistic...but heck...one can dream can't he?

[AUIH1 1,515]

73, BS,MBA and I've said for years that the only time I've read anything negative about Auburn University is when something in the athletic program goes amiss....whether it is an individual player or the program as a whole.

I was in school during probation and watched Shug's teams get shut out by Bama for 4 years. As noted by someone above, AU has a football factory reputation and I've watched school presidents and Deans of various departments work to raise the academic standing of Auburn with modest state support. In many schools AU has risen above what many might expect of a public university located in a state ranked in the bottom 3 or 4 in the nation for public school performance....and I am more proud of the rankings of our Business School and Engineering School than our sports program as I think they have had higher hills to climb.

The athletes that get in trouble and bring national attention to Auburn are not typical of our outstanding student body. I would like to see AU have 9 or 10 win seasons on a regular basis without the drama of arrests, fights, etc. Perhaps that is too idealistic...but heck...one can dream can't he?

Amen to all of this!!

wde

[autigeremt 6,601]

43. It is what it is. Coaches can do their best, but they can't be with the players 24/7. Like someone said earlier, the players of yesterday weren't choir boys.....the difference is the intensity of the microscope and the severity of today's violent crime.

I'm pleased with 9 win seasons as long as we continue to improve in areas of academics. That is where our bread should be buttered. Let the turds water down academics.

[auburn2oregon 0]

In light of the discipline/behavioral/scary crime and fatal issues that have started becoming more and more common over the last 5 or so years at Auburn, I'd be interested in seeing what the board's reaction would be to the following "This/That" proposition.

Would you, as an Auburn fan, prefer Auburn to be a perennial 8-9 win team, but have minimal player misconduct off of the field? This would mean less talent on the field, but smarter/better character guys off of it which would not drag the schools name through mud.

Or would you rather haul in the top recruiting classes each year and deal with off the field issues but live with having 10+ wins for the majority of the time, being in the SEC championship and playoff hunt each year.

I know these aren't necessarily mutually exclusive in real life (Deandre Green, Tray Blackmon under Tubs), but I do not think it is a coincidence once Tubby left and the recruiting classes started finishing in the national top 10 is when the off the field issue started to become more prevalent. I'd think there is some sort of balance that can be achieved but AU has not been able to find it.

If you don't mind, post your age as well! I'm very curious to see if there is any correlation with a poster's age and which side they choose. Even if you don't agree that AU has had a problem over the past handful of years, I'd still like to know which you'd prefer.

WDE!

36

Just to make it short and sweet, I would much rather compete for championships. Because if the truth be told, if we ONLY went after DAR Good Citizens, we would be lucky to win 3-5 per year.

WDE from Eugene Oregon!

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

Why don't you folks do an article about all the good players like Sammie and Cam that come to Auburn and turn out to be great role models. Folks would just rather focus on a few players that don't follow the rules. It is not just about win and losses. Auburn football has turned out some really great men during this same time. All universities, schools and communities have some bad apples. Problem here like most places the only ones that make the news is the bad guys. Take off your tin foil hats, Auburn is not falling apart. WDE

[kd4au 1,145]

53 I think we get to caught up in the stars.Go back and look on the recruiting board at some previous classes.Kozan was a 3 star Westerman a 5 star who made it and who didn't?My hope is after Gus gets a few classes he can build depth to the point that the staff can be more selective in who they recruit and not put up with the problem makers and take in the problem makers from other teams.

[Dixie1860 27]

45 Futile argument IMHO. Not trying to be a jerk, although my wife says I'm a born natural. I just don't see how anyone can do any better than their best, and pray that the kids are hearing you.

Teac, and then live as an example.

[cole256 17,051]

I simply say show me the school that doesn't ever have discipline problems.....28

[AU64 10,122]

I simply say show me the school that doesn't ever have discipline problems.....28

There are "discipline problems" and then there is behavior that causes players to end up suspended from games, arrested, in jail...or killed. JMO but we have more than our share of the latter.

Otherwise, hundreds of colleges and universities never make the news because of this kind of stuff ...and on the other hand, schools like AU, FSU, UAT and a handful of others spend far too much time in the national media spotlight because of problems their athletes experience.

[Tiger 8,822]

You can probably count on one hand the number of schools that have had violent deaths of their student athletes over the past 5 years. And AU has had THREE young people lose their lives. THREE. How many schools have had even one of these things happen?

[AUIH1 1,515]

You can probably count on one hand the number of schools that have had violent deaths of their student athletes over the past 5 years. And AU has had THREE young people lose their lives. THREE. How many schools have had even one of these things happen?

Very sobering.

wde

[keesler 5,924]

You can probably count on one hand the number of schools that have had violent deaths of their student athletes over the past 5 years. And AU has had THREE young people lose their lives. THREE. How many schools have had even one of these things happen?

Sends chills down my spine.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,662]

seeing as how we're already in the first scenario with the occasional championship year with the talent here, both the scenarios are already in place.

[triangletiger 1,599]

43. It all boils down to the culture that the coaches instill for the team. If the coaches have established and maintain a culture of accountability and these mistakes are dealt with swiftly and fairly, then we can take a chance on some talented guys who may need to do some growing up and/or come from a less than ideal home. In fact, I think most coaches take it as a moral imperative to give talented kids from bad backgrounds an opportunity to overcome their history and have good lives and become productive and positive members of society. That's probably the main reason a lot of them do it. Of course, that doesn't mean coddling them; rather providing a supportive and secure environment while also holding them accountable. it often means tough love, and, as a last, may require cutting a player for the good of all the other players.

I want us to win. To do that, we have to have talented players. It'd be great to sign a bunch of highly gifted choir boys, but that's not realistic and probably not what we're supposed to be doing anyway. I think college athletics is also about giving people an opportunity to have better lives. We have a pretty good track record of helping kids from questionable backgrounds grow up and become Auburn Men. The coaches just have to use their best judgement on which chances are worth taking.

[cole256 17,051]

You can probably count on one hand the number of schools that have had violent deaths of their student athletes over the past 5 years. And AU has had THREE young people lose their lives. THREE. How many schools have had even one of these things happen?

It is COMPLETELY disrespectful to talk about the deaths of the young men a couple of years ago in something like this. It has nothing to do with their behavior they were at a freaking pool party. I've never seen those students at v tech that were killed claimed to be anything other than victims. These people kids was killed at a freaking party and you guys want to use them in a discussion on should we recruit different kids....pathetic. Yeah we need guys who wouldn't go to a pool party....

[Tiger 8,822]

You can probably count on one hand the number of schools that have had violent deaths of their student athletes over the past 5 years. And AU has had THREE young people lose their lives. THREE. How many schools have had even one of these things happen?

It is COMPLETELY disrespectful to talk about the deaths of the young men a couple of years ago in something like this. It has nothing to do with their behavior they were at a freaking pool party. I've never seen those students at v tech that were killed claimed to be anything other than victims. These people kids was killed at a freaking party and you guys want to use them in a discussion on should we recruit different kids....pathetic. Yeah we need guys who wouldn't go to a pool party....

Well, Mitchell was also at a party so I'm not sure how your last sentence, even in it's sarcastic tone, makes sense. It's not about going to parties. It's about how you're acting at parties. The entire AU student body goes to parties and we don't hear stuff like this generally. IDK if its true or not, but the report is they exchanged gun fire? Why was Mitchell bringing a gun to a party, if the report is true. That's concerning and it would be for any parent paying tuition to send their child to AU.

VTech shooter wasn't miffed at something that happened at a party. He was a psycho school shooter that went on a rampage. I don't think you can compare the two. The party-related deaths are because somebody felt disrespected or something like that, if I recall correctly. Which, I admit, may be a little off.

Maybe it's a bigger problem in that Mitchell, if he did in fact take a gun to the party, felt compelled to actually take a weapon to a party. That could be a bigger issue.

Again, maybe I have the facts wrong. Not trying to be disrespectful to you, your views, or the deceased.

[AUIH1 1,515]

You can probably count on one hand the number of schools that have had violent deaths of their student athletes over the past 5 years. And AU has had THREE young people lose their lives. THREE. How many schools have had even one of these things happen?

It is COMPLETELY disrespectful to talk about the deaths of the young men a couple of years ago in something like this. It has nothing to do with their behavior they were at a freaking pool party. I've never seen those students at v tech that were killed claimed to be anything other than victims. These people kids was killed at a freaking party and you guys want to use them in a discussion on should we recruit different kids....pathetic. Yeah we need guys who wouldn't go to a pool party....

To compare what happened at VT and our players getting shot to death at off campus parties is not well thought out on your part and frankly dumb. Those students that were killed at VT were killed while sitting in classrooms, not at parties. The fact that we have had multiple football players killed at off campus parties in the past 3 years is a clear indication that we have issues that need to be addressed. I don't think anyone on this board has suggested our players not go to pool parties or any party for that matter. We just need our coaches to impress upon our players who may have had a bad upbringing/lifestyle, to stay away from situations and locations that may cause their bad upbringing/lifestyle to result in the tragedies we have seen the past few years. We recruit players from bad backgrounds. That is a fact. Our coaches need to continue to work to try to keep those kids out of trouble once they are at AU.

wde

[cole256 17,051]

I didn't mention Mitchell because I don't know the facts of his case, but we do know some on the other guys and so what if he felt disrespected he started shooting people at a party he's a psycho. It's said one of our players was killed trying to help a girl during the shooting....instead of being mentioned as a hero he's being mentioned as what's wrong with Auburn Smh.

That sentence makes plenty of sense what doesn't make the slightest bit of sense is saying most of the student on campus goes to parties and nothing like this happens....What these victims aren't victims because the shooter was there?

[skippy 0]

We're not yet sure what happened in Mitchell's case, but the two that were killed in 2012 didn't do anything wrong...just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Am I right about this?