Powerful Speech...Thank You PM Netanyahu

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Basically what you are saying is that you are with Netanyahu because you are against Obama. "Do what you do"

I have to call BS here. I see it as saying ...don't believe everything you hear. It is a clear pattern of lies regardless from where it spews.

Do you feel the same way about Netanyahu? Has he been truthful with the world about the Iranians progress in regards to enrichment?

Somewhat. I think he may have exagerated, but it very well could have been his conscience. Look, he is in a totally different situation than our POTUS and I empathize with him in that regard.

So you give him a pass on being truthful? His circumstances justify lying?

Works for potus... :-)

That is the point. Can you call someone a liar in support of someone else who is lying? Where does the hypocrisy end? Are there good lies and bad lies?

[homersapien 11,379]

Do you have facts that he lied or strickly opinion pieces by a political rag? Do you put stock into an ex member of his security force? I see a lot of opinions and speculation from both sides on this issue. Who is right? Can we prove it?

Have you not seen the leaked Mossad memo? Heck, even you used the word exaggerated. Come on.

It's amazing how flexible the definition of "lie" becomes depending on who is in question.

[AUFAN78 3,910]

Basically what you are saying is that you are with Netanyahu because you are against Obama. "Do what you do"

I have to call BS here. I see it as saying ...don't believe everything you hear. It is a clear pattern of lies regardless from where it spews.

Do you feel the same way about Netanyahu? Has he been truthful with the world about the Iranians progress in regards to enrichment?

Somewhat. I think he may have exagerated, but it very well could have been his conscience. Look, he is in a totally different situation than our POTUS and I empathize with him in that regard.

So you give him a pass on being truthful? His circumstances justify lying?

Do you have facts that he lied or strickly opinion pieces by a political rag? Do you put stock into an ex member of his security force? I see a lot of opinions and speculation from both sides on this issue. Who is right? Can we prove it?

Have you not seen the leaked Mossad memo? Heck, even you used the word exaggerated. Come on.

The "apparently official" memo? Yes. I read it. Is it credible? Consider the source? Agenda?

I'll restate an earlier comment. I see a lot of opinions and speculation from both sides on this issue. Who is right? Can we prove it?

I did say i felt he exaggerated claims, but I don't know the mans thoughts. Who am I to judge? Do I know the truth? NO! Do you?

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Basically what you are saying is that you are with Netanyahu because you are against Obama. "Do what you do"

I have to call BS here. I see it as saying ...don't believe everything you hear. It is a clear pattern of lies regardless from where it spews.

Do you feel the same way about Netanyahu? Has he been truthful with the world about the Iranians progress in regards to enrichment?

Somewhat. I think he may have exagerated, but it very well could have been his conscience. Look, he is in a totally different situation than our POTUS and I empathize with him in that regard.

So you give him a pass on being truthful? His circumstances justify lying?

Do you have facts that he lied or strickly opinion pieces by a political rag? Do you put stock into an ex member of his security force? I see a lot of opinions and speculation from both sides on this issue. Who is right? Can we prove it?

Have you not seen the leaked Mossad memo? Heck, even you used the word exaggerated. Come on.

The "apparently official" memo? Yes. I read it. Is it credible? Consider the source? Agenda?

I'll restate an earlier comment. I see a lot of opinions and speculation from both sides on this issue. Who is right? Can we prove it?

I did say i felt he exaggerated claims, but I don't know the mans thoughts. Who am I to judge? Do I know the truth? NO! Do you?

Have you seen anyone assert that the Mossad memo is a fake?

[homersapien 11,379]

Are the statements below lies or just mistakes?

in 1992, then-parliamentarian Netanyahu advised the Israeli Knesset that Iran was “three to five years” away from reaching nuclear weapons capability, and that this threat had to be “uprooted by an international front headed by the U.S.”

In his 1995 book, “Fighting Terrorism,” Netanyahu once again asserted that Iran would have a nuclear weapon in “three to five years,”

Almost two decades ago, in 1996, Netanyahu addressed a joint session of Congress where he darkly warned, “If Iran were to acquire nuclear weapons, this could presage catastrophic consequences, not only for my country, and not only for the Middle East, but for all mankind,” adding that, “the deadline for attaining this goal is getting extremely close.”

For a considerable time thereafter, Netanyahu switched his focus to hyping the purported nuclear threat posed by another country, Iraq, about which he claimed there was “no question” that it was “advancing towards to the development of nuclear weapons.” Testifying again

in 2002, Netanyahu claimed that Iraq’s nonexistent nuclear program was in fact so advanced that the country was now operating “centrifuges the size of washing machines.”

A 2009 U.S. State Department diplomatic cable released by Wikileaks described then-prime ministerial candidate Netanyahu informing a visiting Congressional delegation that Iran was “probably one or two years away” from developing weapons capability. Another cable later the same year showed Netanyahu, now back in office as prime minister, telling a separate delegation of American politicians in Jerusalem that “Iran has the capability now to make one bomb,” adding that alternatively, “they could wait and make several bombs in a year or two.”

In 2012 Netanyahu said in closed talks reported by Israeli media that Iran is just “a few months away” from attaining nuclear capabilities. Later that same year, he gave a widely-mocked address at the United Nations in which he alleged that Iran would have the ability to construct a weapon within roughly one year, while using a printout of a cartoon bomb to illustrate his point.

https://firstlook.or...n-nuclear-bomb/

[AUFAN78 3,910]

Basically what you are saying is that you are with Netanyahu because you are against Obama. "Do what you do"

I have to call BS here. I see it as saying ...don't believe everything you hear. It is a clear pattern of lies regardless from where it spews.

Do you feel the same way about Netanyahu? Has he been truthful with the world about the Iranians progress in regards to enrichment?

Somewhat. I think he may have exagerated, but it very well could have been his conscience. Look, he is in a totally different situation than our POTUS and I empathize with him in that regard.

So you give him a pass on being truthful? His circumstances justify lying?

Do you have facts that he lied or strickly opinion pieces by a political rag? Do you put stock into an ex member of his security force? I see a lot of opinions and speculation from both sides on this issue. Who is right? Can we prove it?

Have you not seen the leaked Mossad memo? Heck, even you used the word exaggerated. Come on.

The "apparently official" memo? Yes. I read it. Is it credible? Consider the source? Agenda?

I'll restate an earlier comment. I see a lot of opinions and speculation from both sides on this issue. Who is right? Can we prove it?

I did say i felt he exaggerated claims, but I don't know the mans thoughts. Who am I to judge? Do I know the truth? NO! Do you?

Have you seen anyone assert that the Mossad memo is a fake?

I am quite certain the article itself stated "apparently official." Then you absolutely must consider the source. So, not necessarily the memo, but possibly its content. How can we know the truth? Who can we believe?

An arbitrary thought.....Had this happened during the Bush years I am 100%, not 99 but 100% convinced we'd still be alluding to it ad nauseam on this forum. Why? It is called politics. Can you imagine the outcry had Bush not attended the speech? Again, politics.

[AUFAN78 3,910]

Are the statements below lies or just mistakes?

in 1992, then-parliamentarian Netanyahu advised the Israeli Knesset that Iran was “three to five years” away from reaching nuclear weapons capability, and that this threat had to be “uprooted by an international front headed by the U.S.”

In his 1995 book, “Fighting Terrorism,” Netanyahu once again asserted that Iran would have a nuclear weapon in “three to five years,”

Almost two decades ago, in 1996, Netanyahu addressed a joint session of Congress where he darkly warned, “If Iran were to acquire nuclear weapons, this could presage catastrophic consequences, not only for my country, and not only for the Middle East, but for all mankind,” adding that, “the deadline for attaining this goal is getting extremely close.”

For a considerable time thereafter, Netanyahu switched his focus to hyping the purported nuclear threat posed by another country, Iraq, about which he claimed there was “no question” that it was “advancing towards to the development of nuclear weapons.” Testifying again

in 2002, Netanyahu claimed that Iraq’s nonexistent nuclear program was in fact so advanced that the country was now operating “centrifuges the size of washing machines.”

A 2009 U.S. State Department diplomatic cable released by Wikileaks described then-prime ministerial candidate Netanyahu informing a visiting Congressional delegation that Iran was “probably one or two years away” from developing weapons capability. Another cable later the same year showed Netanyahu, now back in office as prime minister, telling a separate delegation of American politicians in Jerusalem that “Iran has the capability now to make one bomb,” adding that alternatively, “they could wait and make several bombs in a year or two.”

In 2012 Netanyahu said in closed talks reported by Israeli media that Iran is just “a few months away” from attaining nuclear capabilities. Later that same year, he gave a widely-mocked address at the United Nations in which he alleged that Iran would have the ability to construct a weapon within roughly one year, while using a printout of a cartoon bomb to illustrate his point.

https://firstlook.or...n-nuclear-bomb/

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman!" or ""If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan."

Lies or mistakes?

[DKW 86 7,425]

Basically what you are saying is that you are with Netanyahu because you are against Obama. "Do what you do"

Not at all. I am pointing out, using a humorous device that PBO has been know to:

1) Tell some whopper lies to get past some political popint.

2) When PBO makes a promise, it does not mean it will come true.

See: Closing Gitmo, Keeping your Plan, Keeping your doctor, etc.

[AUFAN78 3,910]

CNN:

Six years of petty insults between President Barack Obama and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu sensationally burst into the open Tuesday in an extraordinary display of Washington political theater, produced by a combination of the alarming threat of an Iranian nuclear bomb, the cliffhanger climax of U.S. diplomacy with Tehran and the hyper-partisan politics in both nations.

Like I stated earlier.......................

[RunInRed 16,411]

Well, Netanyahu also have another good point...this framing of working this deal or heading to war is a false dichotomy. As he said, the only alternative to this bad deal isn't war, it's working out a better deal.

I don't think Bibi wants a deal ... Hell, he's undermining this one while its still being negotiated ... How can you want a "better" deal when this one hasn't even come to fruition?

Because we already have indicators as to what's on the table and it looks really bad. He's not going to sit around and wait until it's inevitable, he wants to put the pressure on now to alter the course of it.

The problem is, he's proposing some arbitrary "hard line" that we know Iran won't agree to, not mention our "partners" in these negotiations China, Japan, South Korea, India and Turkey, who also aren't on board with the tougher sanctions Netanyahu is trying to sell. The only person who is on board with Netanyahu is Netanyahu ... that's a big problem. In, short, I believe he's trying to prop himself up as the tough guy in the midst of an election. Of course, the campaign speech sounds great in theory but there also has to be some sanity check regarding what the negotiations can realistically achieve. So IMO, the "better deal" is really nothing more than pie-in-the-sky rhetoric.

Now, I don't think any of us trust Iran and we all want a "better deal" ... but you have to live in the real world, taking into account all geopolitical factors (e.g., ISIS, Russia, etc.). Sometimes the lesser of two evils is controlling rather than attempting to eliminate Iran's nuclear capabilities ... which I don't know how you do without a military campaign that likely would totally upend the entire Middle East. Again, the rest of the world, who imports oil from Iran, is not on board with the tougher sanctions Bibi is advocating ...

I believe Bibi's thinks the only answer is regime change vis-a-vis strangling their economy through sanctions and have the people rise up and overthrow the Iranian Mullahs. Possible? Maybe. But again, we have no partners in this venture. And do you really want to add a chaotic Iran, to the unstable world of Iraq, Syria, etc.?

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Basically what you are saying is that you are with Netanyahu because you are against Obama. "Do what you do"

I have to call BS here. I see it as saying ...don't believe everything you hear. It is a clear pattern of lies regardless from where it spews.

Do you feel the same way about Netanyahu? Has he been truthful with the world about the Iranians progress in regards to enrichment?

Somewhat. I think he may have exagerated, but it very well could have been his conscience. Look, he is in a totally different situation than our POTUS and I empathize with him in that regard.

So you give him a pass on being truthful? His circumstances justify lying?

Do you have facts that he lied or strickly opinion pieces by a political rag? Do you put stock into an ex member of his security force? I see a lot of opinions and speculation from both sides on this issue. Who is right? Can we prove it?

Have you not seen the leaked Mossad memo? Heck, even you used the word exaggerated. Come on.

The "apparently official" memo? Yes. I read it. Is it credible? Consider the source? Agenda?

I'll restate an earlier comment. I see a lot of opinions and speculation from both sides on this issue. Who is right? Can we prove it?

I did say i felt he exaggerated claims, but I don't know the mans thoughts. Who am I to judge? Do I know the truth? NO! Do you?

Have you seen anyone assert that the Mossad memo is a fake?

I am quite certain the article itself stated "apparently official." Then you absolutely must consider the source. So, not necessarily the memo, but possibly its content. How can we know the truth? Who can we believe?

An arbitrary thought.....Had this happened during the Bush years I am 100%, not 99 but 100% convinced we'd still be alluding to it ad nauseam on this forum. Why? It is called politics. Can you imagine the outcry had Bush not attended the speech? Again, politics.

First statement, I think you are grasping at straws.

Second statement, I agree. However, not because the President did not attend but rather, because of the disrespect towards he and his office.

[TheBlueVue 177]

"because of the disrespect towards he and his office"

Does Obama have ANY obligation to be honest ..ever? Why should he be respected? I have no respect for congenital liars. The office commands respect not necessarily the man especially if his performance doesn't merit it.

[AURaptor 1,125]

Congress does not answer to the President. Congress has every bit, and even a greater role to play in our nations's foreign policy , than does the exec. branch.

If anyone has been disrespected, it was Congress, not Obama.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Both of you failed to understand the pretext of "had this happened to Bush". I believe both of you would have been enraged.

[WarTim 3,456]

Are the statements below lies or just mistakes?

in 1992, then-parliamentarian Netanyahu advised the Israeli Knesset that Iran was “three to five years” away from reaching nuclear weapons capability, and that this threat had to be “uprooted by an international front headed by the U.S.”

In his 1995 book, “Fighting Terrorism,” Netanyahu once again asserted that Iran would have a nuclear weapon in “three to five years,”

Almost two decades ago, in 1996, Netanyahu addressed a joint session of Congress where he darkly warned, “If Iran were to acquire nuclear weapons, this could presage catastrophic consequences, not only for my country, and not only for the Middle East, but for all mankind,” adding that, “the deadline for attaining this goal is getting extremely close.”

For a considerable time thereafter, Netanyahu switched his focus to hyping the purported nuclear threat posed by another country, Iraq, about which he claimed there was “no question” that it was “advancing towards to the development of nuclear weapons.” Testifying again

in 2002, Netanyahu claimed that Iraq’s nonexistent nuclear program was in fact so advanced that the country was now operating “centrifuges the size of washing machines.”

A 2009 U.S. State Department diplomatic cable released by Wikileaks described then-prime ministerial candidate Netanyahu informing a visiting Congressional delegation that Iran was “probably one or two years away” from developing weapons capability. Another cable later the same year showed Netanyahu, now back in office as prime minister, telling a separate delegation of American politicians in Jerusalem that “Iran has the capability now to make one bomb,” adding that alternatively, “they could wait and make several bombs in a year or two.”

In 2012 Netanyahu said in closed talks reported by Israeli media that Iran is just “a few months away” from attaining nuclear capabilities. Later that same year, he gave a widely-mocked address at the United Nations in which he alleged that Iran would have the ability to construct a weapon within roughly one year, while using a printout of a cartoon bomb to illustrate his point.

https://firstlook.or...n-nuclear-bomb/

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman!" or ""If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan."

Lies or mistakes?

How dare the citizens question anything ...

[AUFAN78 3,910]

Basically what you are saying is that you are with Netanyahu because you are against Obama. "Do what you do"

I have to call BS here. I see it as saying ...don't believe everything you hear. It is a clear pattern of lies regardless from where it spews.

Do you feel the same way about Netanyahu? Has he been truthful with the world about the Iranians progress in regards to enrichment?

Somewhat. I think he may have exagerated, but it very well could have been his conscience. Look, he is in a totally different situation than our POTUS and I empathize with him in that regard.

So you give him a pass on being truthful? His circumstances justify lying?

Do you have facts that he lied or strickly opinion pieces by a political rag? Do you put stock into an ex member of his security force? I see a lot of opinions and speculation from both sides on this issue. Who is right? Can we prove it?

Have you not seen the leaked Mossad memo? Heck, even you used the word exaggerated. Come on.

The "apparently official" memo? Yes. I read it. Is it credible? Consider the source? Agenda?

I'll restate an earlier comment. I see a lot of opinions and speculation from both sides on this issue. Who is right? Can we prove it?

I did say i felt he exaggerated claims, but I don't know the mans thoughts. Who am I to judge? Do I know the truth? NO! Do you?

Have you seen anyone assert that the Mossad memo is a fake?

I am quite certain the article itself stated "apparently official." Then you absolutely must consider the source. So, not necessarily the memo, but possibly its content. How can we know the truth? Who can we believe?

An arbitrary thought.....Had this happened during the Bush years I am 100%, not 99 but 100% convinced we'd still be alluding to it ad nauseam on this forum. Why? It is called politics. Can you imagine the outcry had Bush not attended the speech? Again, politics.

First statement, I think you are grasping at straws.

Second statement, I agree. However, not because the President did not attend but rather, because of the disrespect towards he and his office.

I don't pretend to have the answers. Just thoughts and questions. I mean seriously, every OP you read has a slant based on political affiliation. What is one to believe? It can be confusing.

[AURaptor 1,125]

Both of you failed to understand the pretext of "had this happened to Bush". I believe both of you would have been enraged.

I doubt very much that Bush would get so cozy w/ Iran and attempt such a poor deal where Israel objects so strongly.

[alexava 6,973]

Bush would already have about 4 or 5 wars roaring right now and no one would be thinking about Iran.

[AURaptor 1,125]

Bush would already have about 4 or 5 wars roaring right now and no one would be thinking about Iran.

Which is a curious thing to say, as Obama has dropped ordinance on more ME nations than any other US President - ever.

[cooltigger21 0]

What this all comes down to is that Obama has this belief that he can keep Iran from using any nukes just by the sheer force of his personality. He has always believed that because we elected him president that he could talk the tyrants of the world into not behaving like tyrants. Even after six years of being proven wrong, he still believes that.

[alexava 6,973]

Bush would already have about 4 or 5 wars roaring right now and no one would be thinking about Iran.

Which is a curious thing to say, as Obama has dropped ordinance on more ME nations than any other US President - ever.

and been very efficient about it too. no invasions or occupations. he also has not armed any future enemy.

[cooltigger21 0]

Bush would already have about 4 or 5 wars roaring right now and no one would be thinking about Iran.

Which is a curious thing to say, as Obama has dropped ordinance on more ME nations than any other US President - ever.

and been very efficient about it too. no invasions or occupations. he also has not armed any future enemy.

Thank goodness for that because he certainly hasn't done anything to deter the enemies we already have. Actually they feel quite emboldened.

[TitanTiger 20,483]

Well, Netanyahu also have another good point...this framing of working this deal or heading to war is a false dichotomy. As he said, the only alternative to this bad deal isn't war, it's working out a better deal.

I don't think Bibi wants a deal ... Hell, he's undermining this one while its still being negotiated ... How can you want a "better" deal when this one hasn't even come to fruition?

Because we already have indicators as to what's on the table and it looks really bad. He's not going to sit around and wait until it's inevitable, he wants to put the pressure on now to alter the course of it.

The problem is, he's proposing some arbitrary "hard line" that we know Iran won't agree to, not mention our "partners" in these negotiations China, Japan, South Korea, India and Turkey, who also aren't on board with the tougher sanctions Netanyahu is trying to sell. The only person who is on board with Netanyahu is Netanyahu ... that's a big problem. In, short, I believe he's trying to prop himself up as the tough guy in the midst of an election. Of course, the campaign speech sounds great in theory but there also has to be some sanity check regarding what the negotiations can realistically achieve. So IMO, the "better deal" is really nothing more than pie-in-the-sky rhetoric.

Now, I don't think any of us trust Iran and we all want a "better deal" ... but you have to live in the real world, taking into account all geopolitical factors (e.g., ISIS, Russia, etc.). Sometimes the lesser of two evils is controlling rather than attempting to eliminate Iran's nuclear capabilities ... which I don't know how you do without a military campaign that likely would totally upend the entire Middle East. Again, the rest of the world, who imports oil from Iran, is not on board with the tougher sanctions Bibi is advocating ...

I believe Bibi's thinks the only answer is regime change vis-a-vis strangling their economy through sanctions and have the people rise up and overthrow the Iranian Mullahs. Possible? Maybe. But again, we have no partners in this venture. And do you really want to add a chaotic Iran, to the unstable world of Iraq, Syria, etc.?

I do think he's doing some posturing for the elections back home. But I also think he's pushing for a hard line, but knowing that what he's really hoping to accomplish is pushing line further back toward something Israel can be comfortable with. He knows he won't get everything he wants (or claims to want) but he knows that what's being proposed is not enough. So you make some noise, rattle some sabres, negotiate hard and hope to get a good bit of what you want. Or at least you get what you want on a couple of the most important points from your perspective.

[AUFAN78 3,910]

Well, Netanyahu also have another good point...this framing of working this deal or heading to war is a false dichotomy. As he said, the only alternative to this bad deal isn't war, it's working out a better deal.

I don't think Bibi wants a deal ... Hell, he's undermining this one while its still being negotiated ... How can you want a "better" deal when this one hasn't even come to fruition?

Because we already have indicators as to what's on the table and it looks really bad. He's not going to sit around and wait until it's inevitable, he wants to put the pressure on now to alter the course of it.

The problem is, he's proposing some arbitrary "hard line" that we know Iran won't agree to, not mention our "partners" in these negotiations China, Japan, South Korea, India and Turkey, who also aren't on board with the tougher sanctions Netanyahu is trying to sell. The only person who is on board with Netanyahu is Netanyahu ... that's a big problem. In, short, I believe he's trying to prop himself up as the tough guy in the midst of an election. Of course, the campaign speech sounds great in theory but there also has to be some sanity check regarding what the negotiations can realistically achieve. So IMO, the "better deal" is really nothing more than pie-in-the-sky rhetoric.

Now, I don't think any of us trust Iran and we all want a "better deal" ... but you have to live in the real world, taking into account all geopolitical factors (e.g., ISIS, Russia, etc.). Sometimes the lesser of two evils is controlling rather than attempting to eliminate Iran's nuclear capabilities ... which I don't know how you do without a military campaign that likely would totally upend the entire Middle East. Again, the rest of the world, who imports oil from Iran, is not on board with the tougher sanctions Bibi is advocating ...

I believe Bibi's thinks the only answer is regime change vis-a-vis strangling their economy through sanctions and have the people rise up and overthrow the Iranian Mullahs. Possible? Maybe. But again, we have no partners in this venture. And do you really want to add a chaotic Iran, to the unstable world of Iraq, Syria, etc.?

I do think he's doing some posturing for the elections back home. But I also think he's pushing for a hard line, but knowing that what he's really hoping to accomplish is pushing line further back toward something Israel can be comfortable with. He knows he won't get everything he wants (or claims to want) but he knows that what's being proposed is not enough. So you make some noise, rattle some sabres, negotiate hard and hope to get a good bit of what you want. Or at least you get what you want on a couple of the most important points from your perspective.

Yours and Red's posts are informative and clarifying minus the BS rhetoric. Opinion pieces take note! Thank you guys!

[RunInRed 16,411]

You don't negotiate in the public arena ... all while straining the relationship with your biggest supporter at the table. Again, Bibi gives good speeches and I think he's well intentioned but I don't see how what he did helped. At all.