Obama to announce diplomatic relations with Cuba

[homersapien 11,367]

Those who knew Cuba as it was, and who know Castro for who he is, understand why this is a bad idea. Those who have no clue of what the " revolution " ended up being are cool w/ it.

Ignorance seems to be on Obama's side. As well as his followers.

Well pray tell us about Cuba "as it was".

And like I said earlier, for you, this is more about Obama than it is Cuba.

[WarTim 3,456]

The ONLY "announcement from barry that interest me is a resignation.......

[homersapien 11,367]

The ONLY "announcement from barry that interest me is a resignation.......

That's because you oppose any policy Obama pursues, the country's best interests be damned.

[Mikey 16,579]

Anybody else here ever been to Cuba? I have. In the summer 1957 and again in '58, with my next door neighbor. We were both 14 when we went the first time. He was Cuban, born there. His uncle drove to Key West and we caught the ferry over to Havana. It cost us $2 each for passage, I think his uncle had to pay $5 for the car. It was harder for us to get from Miami to Key West than it was to get from Key West to Havana. Once there we stayed with his relatives. By 1959 Castro had won the war and my neighbor's parents wouldn't let us go again, saying it was too dangerous.

Back then everybody in Havana, cab drivers, hotel workers and bartenders, all could speak English. My mom went back one more time, on a court reporter's job in 1960 and she said by then people in Havana wouldn't admit they could understand English for fear of Castro's anti-America policy.

I don't think I'll go back now, I saw it "the way it was".

[AURaptor 1,122]

Is trying something else only suppose to mean we cave, and they get all the benefits of defying our demands to open up their society ?

Apparently so.

Those who knew Cuba as it was, and who know Castro for who he is, understand why this is a bad idea. Those who have no clue of what the " revolution " ended up being are cool w/ it.

Ignorance seems to be on Obama's side. As well as his followers.

How have we "caved" by opening up talks? We've offered a couple of things, some of which benefit American citizens and businesses. That's it. You act like something has happened here that simply hasn't.

It has happened . You still don't get it, do you. EVERYTHING this admin does is ground work for what comes next. Cubans , their govt, are benefitting for having done nothing. And once this gov starts something, it won't be undone. No matter what Cuba does or doesn't do. Just as with Iran. We give them billions in gold & we get zero in exchange. No prisoner swap, no true inspections.., on it goes.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Is trying something else only suppose to mean we cave, and they get all the benefits of defying our demands to open up their society ?

Apparently so.

Those who knew Cuba as it was, and who know Castro for who he is, understand why this is a bad idea. Those who have no clue of what the " revolution " ended up being are cool w/ it.

Ignorance seems to be on Obama's side. As well as his followers.

How have we "caved" by opening up talks? We've offered a couple of things, some of which benefit American citizens and businesses. That's it. You act like something has happened here that simply hasn't.

It has happened . You still don't get it, do you. EVERYTHING this admin does is ground work for what comes next. Cubans , their govt, are benefitting for having done nothing. And once this gov starts something, it won't be undone. No matter what Cuba does or doesn't do. Just as with Iran. We give them billions in gold & we get zero in exchange. No prisoner swap, no true inspections.., on it goes.

What has happened? Give me details. What specifically have we done that is so catastrophic.

[AURaptor 1,122]

Where has Cuba advanced in human rights? How many U.S. Citizens in prison for free speech " crimes " has Cuba set free?

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Where has Cuba advanced in human rights? How many U.S. Citizens in prison for free speech " crimes " has Cuba set free?

I'm not the one making an assertion here. Can you give me some specific, major concessions or giveaways we've done for Cuba in all this?

[quietfan 233]

EVERYTHING this admin does is ground work for what comes next.

This administration has only slightly more than 18 months left in office...waiting a little late in an eight-year tenure to be "laying groundwork" for what comes next, in my opinion. I am reminded of a joke I heard not long ago: "Willie Nelson is 82 years old. If marijuana is a 'gateway drug' that leads to hard stuff, it had better hurry!"

What was the human rights status behind the Iron Current and how many political prisoners were released, before perestroika and glasnost? Openness--openness to new ideas, new information, and new economic models--is what led to the collapse of the Soviet system in a mostly non-violent revolution by the peoples of East Europe and Russia. The Berlin Wall came down as the people of eastern Europe gained more exposure to western economic realities and western democratic ideas and demanded the same.

More exposure to American business models, American attitudes, and democratic traditions can only help the Cuban people. Plus, the Castro brothers and their cronies of the revolution are extremely old themselves. I see Cuba as ripe for liberalization and democracy, if not immediately then upon the looming death of both Castros. Diplomatic relations with the U.S. now, and an influx of tourists' mindsets and dollars, will only hasten the process.

[AURaptor 1,122]

Where has Cuba advanced in human rights? How many U.S. Citizens in prison for free speech " crimes " has Cuba set free?

I'm not the one making an assertion here. Can you give me some specific, major concessions or giveaways we've done for Cuba in all this?

Sorry, trick question. Cuba is doing nothing. But the prestige of the USA opening its embassy again is a a huge win for Fidel & the commies.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Where has Cuba advanced in human rights? How many U.S. Citizens in prison for free speech " crimes " has Cuba set free?

I'm not the one making an assertion here. Can you give me some specific, major concessions or giveaways we've done for Cuba in all this?

Sorry, trick question. Cuba is doing nothing. But the prestige of the USA opening its embassy again is a a huge win for Fidel & the commies.

So your position is that we should try to reopen diplomatic relations but literally change nothing we've done for the last 50 years to do so?

[AURaptor 1,122]

quiet - Obama is a radical, to his core. This is far beyond his own term in office. Look how much he's flipped already. He's confident Hillary won't undue his work, & in fact will expand on them. She's already mouthing off that she'll be more extreme & radical on illegal immigration.

[AURaptor 1,122]

Where has Cuba advanced in human rights? How many U.S. Citizens in prison for free speech " crimes " has Cuba set free?

I'm not the one making an assertion here. Can you give me some specific, major concessions or giveaways we've done for Cuba in all this?

Sorry, trick question. Cuba is doing nothing. But the prestige of the USA opening its embassy again is a a huge win for Fidel & the commies.

So your position is that we should try to reopen diplomatic relations but literally change nothing we've done for the last 50 years to do so?

We shouldn't give in for nothing.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Where has Cuba advanced in human rights? How many U.S. Citizens in prison for free speech " crimes " has Cuba set free?

I'm not the one making an assertion here. Can you give me some specific, major concessions or giveaways we've done for Cuba in all this?

Sorry, trick question. Cuba is doing nothing. But the prestige of the USA opening its embassy again is a a huge win for Fidel & the commies.

So your position is that we should try to reopen diplomatic relations but literally change nothing we've done for the last 50 years to do so?

We shouldn't give in for nothing.

You're answering a question that wasn't asked.

You realize there's a lot of mistrust on both sides of this right? Do you never see a point in a negotiation where one side makes a good faith concession to show a willingness to work with the other? So for instance, opening an embassy. You do that. And you show them that effort in exchange for something from them as a response. But the concessions don't exactly coincide on the timeline. Is that never a reasonable tactic?

And what would prevent us from opening an embassy, attached to some stipulations coming from their side within a given timeframe, then if they don't meet that timeframe simply closing it back up and pulling our diplomats and saying, "Look, we we willing to meet somewhere in the middle but we can't be the only willing partner"?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Surely you don't believe we would ever close it again short of some serious incident.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Surely you don't believe we would ever close it again short of some serious incident.

I don't think you really know what we'd do. It depends on what was agreed to behind the scenes. But this notion that in a negotiation you don't have one side act first followed by the other side's response some time later is naive.

[AURaptor 1,122]

I don't think you really know what we'd do. It depends on what was agreed to behind the scenes. But this notion that in a negotiation you don't have one side act first followed by the other side's response some time later is naive.

' We have to pass the bill first before you can know what's in it. '

Most transparent administration in history?

Same with the Lois Lerner emails, Hillary's emails and the trade deal... There's just no end to the secrecy of this administration.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Titan....I agree I don't know. Neither do you. I aslo agree about one side acting first. The problem is it seems we (Obama) are always acting first and seeing how the other side reacts. Can you say agreement with Iran and response......nuke.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

I don't think you really know what we'd do. It depends on what was agreed to behind the scenes. But this notion that in a negotiation you don't have one side act first followed by the other side's response some time later is naive.

' We have to pass the bill first before you can know what's in it. '

Most transparent administration in history?

Same with the Lois Lerner emails, Hillary's emails and the trade deal... There's just no end to the secrecy of this administration.

Since when does *any* administration tell the world what they negotiate, in real time, with various countries - particularly ones we are not allies with? Did Nixon give a blow by blow account of all his talks with China back in the day?

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Titan....I agree I don't know. Neither do you. I aslo agree about one side acting first. The problem is it seems we (Obama) are always acting first and seeing how the other side reacts. Can you say agreement with Iran and response......nuke.

The thing with Cuba is, we've spent 50 years waiting for Cuba to act first or fall apart. At what point does it start to make a little sense to consider making some gestures yourself to see if you can break the ice a little?

[arnaldoabru 11]

We just want cigars!!!!!Please President Obama make sure you got it in there that we can get Cuban cigars!!!!!!!!

[homersapien 11,367]

Nothing to see or discuss here.

Just another display of Obama Derangement Syndrome.

[quietfan 233]

quiet - Obama is a radical, to his core.

I understand that you believe that. I respect your right to believe it. I just reject the validity of the statement. Obama is not perfect and I would never say something as ridiculous or absolute as "Obama never makes mistakes". But neither is he the robotic spawn of Satan who does everything wrongly.

However, if the imagined Obama/Hillary "plot against America" is such a threat, there's a simple solution: Don't elect her. If the electorate of our democracy does not want Hillary's policies, or expects her to be 'Obama 2.0' and fears that, the answer lies at the ballot box in November 2016 (...or on the primary/convention trail before). If, on the other hand, Hillary is elected, then I will take that to mean the American electorate prefers Hillary's ideas to any opponent's. Just as Obama's election(s) twice showed that most of the electorate preferred his ideas to his opponents.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

quiet....the problem is that so many voters have given up even keeping up with all the lies and corruption of politicians of all stripes and just don't care anymore.

"The more a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it."--George Orwell

I think one reason so many dislike Obama is because he has such along list of lies.

[AURaptor 1,122]

quiet - Obama is a radical, to his core.

I understand that you believe that. I respect your right to believe it. I just reject the validity of the statement. Obama is not perfect and I would never say something as ridiculous or absolute as "Obama never makes mistakes". But neither is he the robotic spawn of Satan who does everything wrongly.

However, if the imagined Obama/Hillary "plot against America" is such a threat, there's a simple solution: Don't elect her. If the electorate of our democracy does not want Hillary's policies, or expects her to be 'Obama 2.0' and fears that, the answer lies at the ballot box in November 2016 (...or on the primary/convention trail before). If, on the other hand, Hillary is elected, then I will take that to mean the American electorate prefers Hillary's ideas to any opponent's. Just as Obama's election(s) twice showed that most of the electorate preferred his ideas to his opponents.

I doubt very much it was so much Obama's ideas as it was a combo of a really bad candidate in McCain and the fabricated thrill of 'change', which the MSM helped hype up.

And to doubt Obama is a radical is to deny his own words. But if you're not convinced by now of who he is and what he's trying to do, you'll never be convinced.