Background checks failed for Orlando shooter

[AURaptor 1,137]

But we all should trust the government when it says it will background check Syrian refugees.

Does that make sense to you?

[channonc 466]

You really need to take a day off from this forum, might be better for your health.

[AURaptor 1,137]

You really need to take a day off from this forum, might be better for your health.

Don't like thinking too much, huh?

[TitanTiger 20,708]

But we all should trust the government when it says it will background check Syrian refugees.

Does that make sense to you?

To answer that question (and come to the conclusion you are implying) you would need to present some information that details how the background check for purchasing a weapon works vs how the check for a Syrian refugee works. Off the top of my head, I know the refugee check can take 1-2 years before they are allowed to come in. I'm not aware of any gun purchase check that takes that long. They generally take minutes. That would seem to indicate that one is substantially more thorough than the other.

Sounds like a false equivalency to me.

[AURaptor 1,137]

False equivalence?

Really?

Does this change your view any?

The Obama administration has committed to bring at least 10,000 Syrian refugees onto American soil in fiscal year 2016 by accelerating security screening procedures from 18-24 months to around three months , according to sources who spoke to the Washington Free Beacon.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/05/administration_will_cut_screening_time_for_refugees_by_twothirds.html#ixzz4BrQhb1Cr

Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

ETA - Syria is in a civil war. Many official records may be lost or IDs forged. Over look the simple question of if they should even BE admitted, or comments by our own security officials as well as Isis themselves that terrorists WILL try to gain entry in with refugees.

Still on board ?

[TitanTiger 20,708]

False equivalence?

Really?

Does this change your view any?

The Obama administration has committed to bring at least 10,000 Syrian refugees onto American soil in fiscal year 2016 by accelerating security screening procedures from 18-24 months to around three months , according to sources who spoke to the Washington Free Beacon.

Read more: http://www.americant...l#ixzz4BrQhb1Cr

Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

ETA - Syria is in a civil war. Many official records may be lost or IDs forged. Over look the simple question of if they should even BE admitted, or comments by our own security officials as well as Isis themselves that terrorists WILL try to gain entry in with refugees.

Still on board ?

It might if I could find anything beyond the typical caterwauling freakout blogs that gave such a timeframe. Not even National Review reports such a reduction, just that we are opening more screening centers in the Middle East to help process faster.

But since three months isn't really much of a bother to you, would you support background checks on guns that took three months?

[AURaptor 1,137]

That does not make any sense. Background check for immigrants only for three months isn't a bother for me? What is that even supposed to mean? And you're comparing apples to oranges. American citizens who have a constitutional right to own a gun should not have to be compared to Muslim refugees fleeing a war torn country

[alexava 6,974]

This idiot was a legit security guard wasn't he? Did he not already have some guns? It is the machine gun and hundreds of rounds of ammo and a gym bag full of clips sold to a Muslim twice implicated to the Feds that bothers me.

[cooltigger21 0]

When you get your ban on "military grade" weapons what will be the next type of gun you want to ban. What comes third, fourth and on down the line. When do you finally stop? Answer is newer.

[FoundationEagle 637]

This idiot was a legit security guard wasn't he? Did he not already have some guns? It is the machine gun and hundreds of rounds of ammo and a gym bag full of clips sold to a Muslim twice implicated to the Feds that bothers me.

Machine guns are illegal. Facts. Such a burden..

[japantiger 4,077]

This idiot was a legit security guard wasn't he? Did he not already have some guns? It is the machine gun and hundreds of rounds of ammo and a gym bag full of clips sold to a Muslim twice implicated to the Feds that bothers me.

Well, one small factual mistake on the machine gun point....it was a semi auto....

But, the broader point you make, which should be the real issue getting discussed is we knew about this guy and still let him pull this off. Just like Boston and SB...

[alexava 6,974]

This idiot was a legit security guard wasn't he? Did he not already have some guns? It is the machine gun and hundreds of rounds of ammo and a gym bag full of clips sold to a Muslim twice implicated to the Feds that bothers me.

Well, one small factual mistake on the machine gun point....it was a semi auto....

But, the broader point you make, which should be the real issue getting discussed is we knew about this guy and still let him pull this off. Just like Boston and SB...

these things can quite easily be converted to fully automatic. Which would then meet the qualifications of a machine gun. I know it was a semi automatic which to me is not a lot of difference. Assault weapon, machine gun same thing I DONT WANT A SUSPECTED TERRORIST SO EASILY GETTING ONE. I should not have quoted Japantiger post after skimming back through he and I may agree on as much or more than we don't. I don't like a terrorist any more than the most conservative people. I also ( maybe wrongly) am suspicious of all of them( Muslims Mideast descent). I would apologetically revoke their rights to privacy by watching them like hawks. This idea is probably not supported by the left and likely applauded by the right. So why for the love of god do the right oppose a law preventing terror suspects from buying a military type gun which IS what we are talking about.

[AURaptor 1,137]

It wasn't a machine gun. It didn't need to be, as the club was a gun free zone. Just like all the other mass shootings sites, where guns were not allowed. Except by the criminals, who don't obey the law anyway.

[AUUSN 823]

This idiot was a legit security guard wasn't he? Did he not already have some guns? It is the machine gun and hundreds of rounds of ammo and a gym bag full of clips sold to a Muslim twice implicated to the Feds that bothers me.

Well, one small factual mistake on the machine gun point....it was a semi auto....

But, the broader point you make, which should be the real issue getting discussed is we knew about this guy and still let him pull this off. Just like Boston and SB...

semi auto = the ability to mow down a room full of people in a short amount of time.

[alexava 6,974]

It wasn't a machine gun. It didn't need to be, as the club was a gun free zone. Just like all the other mass shootings sites, where guns were not allowed. Except by the criminals, who don't obey the law anyway.

in my days i was a nightclub goer for damn sure. I wish I would have saved half that damn money I blew and invested it. I have never seen a club that would be a good idea to allow guns inside. It's utterly ____ing ridiculous to think it would be. There is heavy drinking and very frequent fighting, guns would be a disaster.

[AUTUmike 79]

You really need to take a day off from this forum, might be better for your health.

Don't like thinking too much, huh?

Of all of Raptor's inane posts, this one may be my favorite.

[AURaptor 1,137]

So no one seems to be able to connect the obvious here? That even with being on a watch list and twice interviewed by the FBI, after warnings from co-workers of having violent, radical views, a US citizen was able to avoid scrutiny , most likely because he was Muslim, and the edict from upon high is that the ones who turned him in were the real perpetrators of bigotry, not him.

And with that official mindset, our govt is going to push through 10's of 1000's of Muslims ( but only a handful of Christians ) into this country, where vetting has been reduced to 90 days, instead of 2 years, and it's all suppose to be a good thing ?

Even as ISIS is boasting and our own CIA / FBI directors are saying it's almost certain that some of those who come into our country are ALREADY radicalized, and they'll be trying to get to even more , like the Orlando shooter.

This will not end well.

[TitanTiger 20,708]

So no one seems to be able to connect the obvious here? That even with being on a watch list and twice interviewed by the FBI, after warnings from co-workers of having violent, radical views, a US citizen was able to avoid scrutiny , most likely because he was Muslim, and the edict from upon high is that the ones who turned him in were the real perpetrators of bigotry, not him.

It's not an obvious connection because you're talking about two very different processes and two very different timeframes. His background check took all of a few minutes and all it really checks is criminal history. The refugees checks take a year or two. Even if you believe the extremely short and uncorroborated time frame was shortened to three months, it's a much more thorough check that the one Mateen went through to get a gun.

The background check for guns is almost perfunctory. The background checks for refugees that have been detailed here several times is not.

[AURaptor 1,137]

The common denominator here Titan is the trust in the govt.

The San Bernadino shooter wife forged her info , and passed entry no problem.

3 months is not nearly enough time to do a proper background check. Hell, there shouldn't BE any background checks as they should not be allowed into this country in the first place. But the hard cold fact is, we don't have the man power to do the diligence required. It's simply a fairy tale's belief that we do.

[cooltigger21 0]

Not only is there not enough manpower, there is simply no way to adequately check out these people. You could put 100 checkers on eachvso called refugee and it wouldn't work. You have no way to look at any kind of paper trail. Hell most of them you couldn't truly know where exactly they have lived. I refuse to put this country any further at risk to assuage your guilty conscience or so you can stand up and say how much more caring you are than me.

[TitanTiger 20,708]

The common denominator here Titan is the trust in the govt.

The San Bernadino shooter wife forged her info , and passed entry no problem.

3 months is not nearly enough time to do a proper background check. Hell, there shouldn't BE any background checks as they should not be allowed into this country in the first place. But the hard cold fact is, we don't have the man power to do the diligence required. It's simply a fairy tale's belief that we do.

If you have so little trust in the government that you don't think a 12-24 month vetting process is enough, then you just really need to move to an island somewhere. This place is just not safe enough for you. The three month thing, for now, I'm calling BS on anyway.

But the main thing is, you can't compare a 5 minutes criminal background check for a gun to the vetting process for refugees. They aren't even in the same area code.

Even The Heritage Foundation points out that this is a thorough process that is nothing like gun purchase background checks:

So what does the refugee vetting process look like?

First, most applicants apply for refuge through the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, or UNHCR. The office then forwards some applications to the U.S. State Department, which prepares these applications for adjudication by Department of Homeland Security's U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.

Once an applicant is referred to the State Department, biometric and biographic checks are done against various U.S. security databases at multiple points throughout the process.

Multiple agencies systems and databases are incorporated in this process, including:

The State Department

_Consular Lookout and Support System

_Consular Consolidated Database

Department of Homeland Security

_TECS (a DHS security system)

_DHS Automated Biometric Identification System

National Counterterrorism Center/FBI's Terrorist Screening Center

_Terrorist Identities Datamart Environment

_Terrorist Screening Database

Federal Bureau of Investigation

_Extracts of the National Crime Information Center's Wanted Persons File, Immigration Violator File, Foreign Fugitive File, Violent Gang and Terrorist Organization File (and the Interstate Identification Index)

_Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System / Next Generation Identification

Interpol

Drug Enforcement Administration

Department of Defense

_Automated Biometric Identification System

In addition, the refugee process requires a security advisory opinion to be completed by the FBI and the intelligence community on many refugee applicants who are considered higher risk. Similarly, interagency checks are constantly being done in connection with a wide range of U.S. agencies.

In additional to these background checks, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services conducts a refugee interview. These interviews cover everything from refugee and immigration matters to security and country specific questions.

For example, Syrian refugee officers must undergo a one week training course on Syria-specific issues, including classified information. Additional scrutiny is already being applied to Syrians through the enhanced review for Syrian applicants process that puts additional security and intelligence resources at the disposal of adjudicators.

Only at this point can an application be approved. For those that are approved, health screenings and orientations begin. The State Department and Office of Refugee Resettlement within the Department of Health and Human Services work with voluntary resettlement agencies to arrange for resettlement services and assistance.

After an average of 12-18 months, this process ends with entry into the U.S. According to the Department of Homeland Security, of the approximately 23,000 Syrian referrals made by the U.N. High Commissioner on Refugees to the U.S., only about 2,000 have been accepted. The U.S. refugee system can be, should be, and is being picky at who we allow to enter the U.S. as a refugee.

http://www.heritage....g-process-works

Just saying that both are done by the gov't so if one is not thorough or foolproof everything sucks is lazy.

[AURaptor 1,137]

That's not what I'm saying Titan.

[cooltigger21 0]

The common denominator here Titan is the trust in the govt.

The San Bernadino shooter wife forged her info , and passed entry no problem.

3 months is not nearly enough time to do a proper background check. Hell, there shouldn't BE any background checks as they should not be allowed into this country in the first place. But the hard cold fact is, we don't have the man power to do the diligence required. It's simply a fairy tale's belief that we do.

If you have so little trust in the government that you don't think a 12-24 month vetting process is enough, then you just really need to move to an island somewhere. This place is just not safe enough for you. The three month thing, for now, I'm calling BS on anyway.

But the main thing is, you can't compare a 5 minutes criminal background check for a gun to the vetting process for refugees. They aren't even in the same area code.

Even The Heritage Foundation points out that this is a thorough process that is nothing like gun purchase background checks:

So what does the refugee vetting process look like?

First, most applicants apply for refuge through the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, or UNHCR. The office then forwards some applications to the U.S. State Department, which prepares these applications for adjudication by Department of Homeland Security's U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.

Once an applicant is referred to the State Department, biometric and biographic checks are done against various U.S. security databases at multiple points throughout the process.

Multiple agencies systems and databases are incorporated in this process, including:

The State Department

_Consular Lookout and Support System

_Consular Consolidated Database

Department of Homeland Security

_TECS (a DHS security system)

_DHS Automated Biometric Identification System

National Counterterrorism Center/FBI's Terrorist Screening Center

_Terrorist Identities Datamart Environment

_Terrorist Screening Database

Federal Bureau of Investigation

_Extracts of the National Crime Information Center's Wanted Persons File, Immigration Violator File, Foreign Fugitive File, Violent Gang and Terrorist Organization File (and the Interstate Identification Index)

_Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System / Next Generation Identification

Interpol

Drug Enforcement Administration

Department of Defense

_Automated Biometric Identification System

In addition, the refugee process requires a security advisory opinion to be completed by the FBI and the intelligence community on many refugee applicants who are considered higher risk. Similarly, interagency checks are constantly being done in connection with a wide range of U.S. agencies.

In additional to these background checks, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services conducts a refugee interview. These interviews cover everything from refugee and immigration matters to security and country specific questions.

For example, Syrian refugee officers must undergo a one week training course on Syria-specific issues, including classified information. Additional scrutiny is already being applied to Syrians through the enhanced review for Syrian applicants process that puts additional security and intelligence resources at the disposal of adjudicators.

Only at this point can an application be approved. For those that are approved, health screenings and orientations begin. The State Department and Office of Refugee Resettlement within the Department of Health and Human Services work with voluntary resettlement agencies to arrange for resettlement services and assistance.

After an average of 12-18 months, this process ends with entry into the U.S. According to the Department of Homeland Security, of the approximately 23,000 Syrian referrals made by the U.N. High Commissioner on Refugees to the U.S., only about 2,000 have been accepted. The U.S. refugee system can be, should be, and is being picky at who we allow to enter the U.S. as a refugee.

http://www.heritage....g-process-works

Just saying that both are done by the gov't so if one is not thorough or foolproof everything sucks is lazy.

You can have all the people you want looking into these people. It's impossible to accurately determine anything because of the part of the world they come from. You can't look at a record that was never created. It's not like someone from say Europe who has an extensive background tnat you can actually look at and make a fairly informed decision.

[aujeff11 6,243]

But we all should trust the government when it says it will background check Syrian refugees.

Does that make sense to you?

Facebook meme fodder doesn't make for the best of logical discussions.

[AURaptor 1,137]

Simple questions no one wants to answer do.