The Brexit Vote

[TitanTiger 20,481]

The Dow closed down 610 points today in reaction to the vote. If you have some extra cash lying around, now might be a good time to jump in.

[maxwere 82]

Oh, good grief. Recessions are not good, nor do they have the magical restorative powers that libertarians wish to grant them. Instead, they are periods of foregone growth that can never be recovered. I agree that the EU is probably unsustainable, but our federal government and central bank are every bit sustainable. To think otherwise is to allow one's self to be enslaved by ideology at the expense of reality--a folly on which libertarianism excels.

No, no, no. What we really need is a modern day version of the Dark Ages. It would be awesome!

Just think of the malinvestments that would take care of!

Mal-Investment: The time ICHY and Mike spend parroting George Monbiot or Paul Krugman. Make your own argument. You've obviously read the ABCT literature. Convince me on one: so-called wealth creation isn't primarily nominal (inflative), (nearly) negative sovereign yields are sustainable, recessions aren't healthy, there's no malinvestment (mr oil options trader) etc.

[maxwere 82]

The Dow closed down 610 points today in reaction to the vote. If you have some extra cash lying around, now might be a good time to jump in.

I wouldn't advise. (I did that kind of thing in 2007) If you want to speculate, short VXX (small position).

[AUcivE09 582]

It is funny watching liberals squirm as their gold standard crumbles.

"The young who voted Remain in 1975 overwhelmingly voted Leave in 2016. "

"Now a vote for the EU was a vote for love. And if the British couldn’t be terrified into voting Remain, surely they could be guilted into doing it?"

Sounds a lot like what we have going on here - guilt and young people thinking the government is the answer. Hopefully 52% of us want to be responsible for ourselves as well despite being called racists, bigots, xenophobes, or whatever other name is thrown our way for the purpose of guilt.

Yep. Anytime someone starts damning a decision because those that voted for it are older; I am reminded of Churchill's quote: "...the young grow wild oats; the old grow sage"...

Actually this was a big "**** you" from the baby-boomers to the millennials. They are saddling the young with a future they won't have to deal with. Hope they remember that when they are dribbling in some underfunded rest home.

I predict there will be a "brain drain" of young people from Britain if this sticks.

As expected - first up on the butt-hurt list... =)

What a stupid thing to say. Why should I be butt-hurt??

Well, other than the fact I will lose perhaps 10's of thousands of dollars, which I hope and expect will return with time.

Do you think this is a good thing for the U.S.?

It really has no effect on America other than how it shows what the EU is doing and Obama/Liberals want just is not working.

And if you lost "10's of Thousands" you need to fire your investor!! lol

First, what does this reveal about what Obama/Liberals want?

Secondly, 10's of thousands is not a particularly large percent of my financial resources.

Thirdly, I don't have an investor I am the investor.

Fourthly, What exactly is the mistake I have made as an investor? That's a pretty stupid implication to make knowing nothing about my investment strategy.

I suggest you get off the internet and go back to work and maybe someday you'll attain the "problems" I have.

Butt-hurt going up?

I wish I could meet you in real life. Such an interesting wealthy person you must be.

[homersapien 11,371]

It's not really about economics, it's just good old fashioned bigotry and xenophobia.

Coming to a US election near you.

http://www.salon.com...mic_insecurity/

Trump and Brexit: Right-wing populism of the two is rooted more in base nationalism than in economic insecurity

....In both the U.S. and the U.K., a lot of digital ink is being spilled analyzing the rise of right wing anti-immigrant populism. There are two general arguments over its cause. One is the economic argument: Our changing economy, coupled with the damage done by free trade and declining government investments in infrastructure and social services, causes skyrocketing economic anxiety, especially in areas outside of urban centers. This, in turn, causes people to look for villains to blame, and they settle on blaming immigrants, people of color, and liberal urban “elites”.

The other is a culture war argument: The right wing populists are petty, resentful people who dislike change, and their hatred of immigrants, feminists, and urbane people generally is neither complex nor particularly tied to economic insecurity. They’re just small-minded and ugly to anyone that isn’t like them.

This is an admittedly over-simplified take on the issue. Most people — I count myself amongst them — who closely follow the rise of right-wing populism would argue that it’s some combination of these two factors. It would be foolish to pretend that racist white people are okay with darker-skinned people sharing in the bounty if the economy were more robust. But it’s also foolish to deny that it becomes much easier for a racist to feel justified in blaming the immigrants for all their problems if the quality of local social services is in decline.....

.....Still, it matters how much this kind of right-wing populism is due to cultural resentments vs. economic anxieties. Many on the left see the high levels of opposition to free trade among Trump supporters or Leave voters and optimistically conclude that this provides a way to ameliorate their ugliness and hate. If their nastiness really is a reaction to economic anxiety, after all, there are options here. Perhaps they can be educated about a more liberal path towards their economic goals. Perhaps a return to more robust social spending or more restrictive trade policies will help restore economic health to their communities, reducing their anger and hatred.

But if this kind of right-wing populism is rooted in hate, and the economic stuff is just slathered on top, then it makes it much harder to conceive of a solution to this problem. If people hate immigrants and urban “elites” not because they are reacting poorly to economic insecurity, but just because they really don’t like difference, there’s not much you can do about that.

Unfortunately, there’s a significant amount of evidence that right-wing populism is rooted more in plain old small-minded bigotry than it is a form of economic anxiety that simply expresses itself in nationalist, bigoted terms.

In Great Britain, voters were continually warned that a vote for Leave was a vote for economic devastation. Yes, a lot of people rationalized that away, accusing the Remain folks of fear-mongering. But people who are truly worried about their economic status would probably hesitate more to gamble with the future this way. Instead, as Nate Silver at FiveThirtyEight showed, “As compared with most Americans, Trump’s voters are better off.” Not by a small amount, either. The average Trump household draws a median income of $72,000, which is $16,000 more a year than the average American household. Both Clinton and Sanders supporters have a median household income of $61,000.

None of this means that liberals should abandon the cause of economic justice, better trade regulation, stronger unions, or more robust social spending. These things are good in and of themselves, and help stabilize the economy and the lives of people across the demographic and political spectrum.

But we should let go of the hope that liberal economic policies will do much to end nationalism and racism. God knows American red states, which keep electing Republicans who impose austerity measures so serious that it’s causing their governments and school systems to collapse, proves the point. A lot of right-wingers would rather burn their own homes to the ground rather than share them fairly with people of color. I wish I had an answer to that problem, but if the threat of economic devastation doesn’t change their minds, apparently nothing will.

Read the unedited version at: http://www.salon.com...mic_insecurity/

[homersapien 11,371]

It is funny watching liberals squirm as their gold standard crumbles.

"The young who voted Remain in 1975 overwhelmingly voted Leave in 2016. "

"Now a vote for the EU was a vote for love. And if the British couldn’t be terrified into voting Remain, surely they could be guilted into doing it?"

Sounds a lot like what we have going on here - guilt and young people thinking the government is the answer. Hopefully 52% of us want to be responsible for ourselves as well despite being called racists, bigots, xenophobes, or whatever other name is thrown our way for the purpose of guilt.

Yep. Anytime someone starts damning a decision because those that voted for it are older; I am reminded of Churchill's quote: "...the young grow wild oats; the old grow sage"...

Actually this was a big "**** you" from the baby-boomers to the millennials. They are saddling the young with a future they won't have to deal with. Hope they remember that when they are dribbling in some underfunded rest home.

I predict there will be a "brain drain" of young people from Britain if this sticks.

As expected - first up on the butt-hurt list... =)

What a stupid thing to say. Why should I be butt-hurt??

Well, other than the fact I will lose perhaps 10's of thousands of dollars, which I hope and expect will return with time.

Do you think this is a good thing for the U.S.?

It really has no effect on America other than how it shows what the EU is doing and Obama/Liberals want just is not working.

And if you lost "10's of Thousands" you need to fire your investor!! lol

First, what does this reveal about what Obama/Liberals want?

Secondly, 10's of thousands is not a particularly large percent of my financial resources.

Thirdly, I don't have an investor I am the investor.

Fourthly, What exactly is the mistake I have made as an investor? That's a pretty stupid implication to make knowing nothing about my investment strategy.

I suggest you get off the internet and go back to work and maybe someday you'll attain the "problems" I have.

Butt-hurt going up?

I wish I could meet you in real life. Such an interesting wealthy person you must be.

Well, I knew enough even at your age to respect my elders, not to mention avoiding 'doubling down' on stupidity.

Now, like I said, get back to work.

[AURaptor 1,122]

Called it.

SMH

[homersapien 11,371]

From aforementioned article: http://www.salon.com...mic_insecurity/

[japantiger 4,051]

It's not really about economics, it's just good old fashioned bigotry and xenophobia.

Coming to a US election near you.

http://www.salon.com...mic_insecurity/

Trump and Brexit: Right-wing populism of the two is rooted more in base nationalism than in economic insecurity

....In both the U.S. and the U.K., a lot of digital ink is being spilled analyzing the rise of right wing anti-immigrant populism. There are two general arguments over its cause. One is the economic argument: Our changing economy, coupled with the damage done by free trade and declining government investments in infrastructure and social services, causes skyrocketing economic anxiety, especially in areas outside of urban centers. This, in turn, causes people to look for villains to blame, and they settle on blaming immigrants, people of color, and liberal urban “elites”.

The other is a culture war argument: The right wing populists are petty, resentful people who dislike change, and their hatred of immigrants, feminists, and urbane people generally is neither complex nor particularly tied to economic insecurity. They’re just small-minded and ugly to anyone that isn’t like them.

This is an admittedly over-simplified take on the issue. Most people — I count myself amongst them — who closely follow the rise of right-wing populism would argue that it’s some combination of these two factors. It would be foolish to pretend that racist white people are okay with darker-skinned people sharing in the bounty if the economy were more robust. But it’s also foolish to deny that it becomes much easier for a racist to feel justified in blaming the immigrants for all their problems if the quality of local social services is in decline.....

.....Still, it matters how much this kind of right-wing populism is due to cultural resentments vs. economic anxieties. Many on the left see the high levels of opposition to free trade among Trump supporters or Leave voters and optimistically conclude that this provides a way to ameliorate their ugliness and hate. If their nastiness really is a reaction to economic anxiety, after all, there are options here. Perhaps they can be educated about a more liberal path towards their economic goals. Perhaps a return to more robust social spending or more restrictive trade policies will help restore economic health to their communities, reducing their anger and hatred.

But if this kind of right-wing populism is rooted in hate, and the economic stuff is just slathered on top, then it makes it much harder to conceive of a solution to this problem. If people hate immigrants and urban “elites” not because they are reacting poorly to economic insecurity, but just because they really don’t like difference, there’s not much you can do about that.

Unfortunately, there’s a significant amount of evidence that right-wing populism is rooted more in plain old small-minded bigotry than it is a form of economic anxiety that simply expresses itself in nationalist, bigoted terms.

In Great Britain, voters were continually warned that a vote for Leave was a vote for economic devastation. Yes, a lot of people rationalized that away, accusing the Remain folks of fear-mongering. But people who are truly worried about their economic status would probably hesitate more to gamble with the future this way. Instead, as Nate Silver at FiveThirtyEight showed, “As compared with most Americans, Trump’s voters are better off.” Not by a small amount, either. The average Trump household draws a median income of $72,000, which is $16,000 more a year than the average American household. Both Clinton and Sanders supporters have a median household income of $61,000.

None of this means that liberals should abandon the cause of economic justice, better trade regulation, stronger unions, or more robust social spending. These things are good in and of themselves, and help stabilize the economy and the lives of people across the demographic and political spectrum.

But we should let go of the hope that liberal economic policies will do much to end nationalism and racism. God knows American red states, which keep electing Republicans who impose austerity measures so serious that it’s causing their governments and school systems to collapse, proves the point. A lot of right-wingers would rather burn their own homes to the ground rather than share them fairly with people of color. I wish I had an answer to that problem, but if the threat of economic devastation doesn’t change their minds, apparently nothing will.

Read the unedited version at: http://www.salon.com...mic_insecurity/

Good lord, another Salon tome...lots of emotion, state the same point over and over for 10,000 words, no facts, a couple of anecdotes, if you disagree with me you are a danger to humankind, and sum it all up with there are only a select few of us are smart enough to give direction to those dumb tax paying, bible totin, gun ownin Americans...ah yes, it wouldn't be Friday without one...

[TitanTiger 20,481]

It's not really about economics, it's just good old fashioned bigotry and xenophobia.

Coming to a US election near you.

http://www.salon.com...mic_insecurity/

Trump and Brexit: Right-wing populism of the two is rooted more in base nationalism than in economic insecurity

....In both the U.S. and the U.K., a lot of digital ink is being spilled analyzing the rise of right wing anti-immigrant populism. There are two general arguments over its cause. One is the economic argument: Our changing economy, coupled with the damage done by free trade and declining government investments in infrastructure and social services, causes skyrocketing economic anxiety, especially in areas outside of urban centers. This, in turn, causes people to look for villains to blame, and they settle on blaming immigrants, people of color, and liberal urban “elites”.

The other is a culture war argument: The right wing populists are petty, resentful people who dislike change, and their hatred of immigrants, feminists, and urbane people generally is neither complex nor particularly tied to economic insecurity. They’re just small-minded and ugly to anyone that isn’t like them.

This is an admittedly over-simplified take on the issue. Most people — I count myself amongst them — who closely follow the rise of right-wing populism would argue that it’s some combination of these two factors. It would be foolish to pretend that racist white people are okay with darker-skinned people sharing in the bounty if the economy were more robust. But it’s also foolish to deny that it becomes much easier for a racist to feel justified in blaming the immigrants for all their problems if the quality of local social services is in decline.....

.....Still, it matters how much this kind of right-wing populism is due to cultural resentments vs. economic anxieties. Many on the left see the high levels of opposition to free trade among Trump supporters or Leave voters and optimistically conclude that this provides a way to ameliorate their ugliness and hate. If their nastiness really is a reaction to economic anxiety, after all, there are options here. Perhaps they can be educated about a more liberal path towards their economic goals. Perhaps a return to more robust social spending or more restrictive trade policies will help restore economic health to their communities, reducing their anger and hatred.

But if this kind of right-wing populism is rooted in hate, and the economic stuff is just slathered on top, then it makes it much harder to conceive of a solution to this problem. If people hate immigrants and urban “elites” not because they are reacting poorly to economic insecurity, but just because they really don’t like difference, there’s not much you can do about that.

Unfortunately, there’s a significant amount of evidence that right-wing populism is rooted more in plain old small-minded bigotry than it is a form of economic anxiety that simply expresses itself in nationalist, bigoted terms.

In Great Britain, voters were continually warned that a vote for Leave was a vote for economic devastation. Yes, a lot of people rationalized that away, accusing the Remain folks of fear-mongering. But people who are truly worried about their economic status would probably hesitate more to gamble with the future this way. Instead, as Nate Silver at FiveThirtyEight showed, “As compared with most Americans, Trump’s voters are better off.” Not by a small amount, either. The average Trump household draws a median income of $72,000, which is $16,000 more a year than the average American household. Both Clinton and Sanders supporters have a median household income of $61,000.

None of this means that liberals should abandon the cause of economic justice, better trade regulation, stronger unions, or more robust social spending. These things are good in and of themselves, and help stabilize the economy and the lives of people across the demographic and political spectrum.

But we should let go of the hope that liberal economic policies will do much to end nationalism and racism. God knows American red states, which keep electing Republicans who impose austerity measures so serious that it’s causing their governments and school systems to collapse, proves the point. A lot of right-wingers would rather burn their own homes to the ground rather than share them fairly with people of color. I wish I had an answer to that problem, but if the threat of economic devastation doesn’t change their minds, apparently nothing will.

Read the unedited version at: http://www.salon.com...mic_insecurity/

I don't really trust Salon to accurately assess others' motives. They see the world through a certain lens just like everyone else and amazingly, the world always conforms to it.

I don't think it's that simple to call it racism or xenophobia and disconnect it from economic insecurity. I think the two are linked. When people are insecure and feel threatened, they tend to close ranks and revert to tribalism. The "other" becomes the target of their frustrations and fears.

And that's not to say their fears are always unfounded either. Free trade agreements, abuse of the H1B visa system and so on are putting people in competition with folks salary wise that they can't really compete with and it makes them angry. I don't fault the immigrants or the workers in other countries for jumping at a chance to make a better life for them and their families. But I do fault our political elites for entering into these agreements that ultimately benefit large companies and international capitalists, but not the American (or British) workers.

[AUUSN 823]

[AURaptor 1,122]

" sigh "

[japantiger 4,051]

The Dow closed down 610 points today in reaction to the vote. If you have some extra cash lying around, now might be a good time to jump in.

Yes, the 610 puts it at the low end of the trading range for the last 12 months...still up about 1500 points YTD...short term opportunity...volume was about 1/2 of normal trading volume mid-day the last time I checked..

[TexasTiger 12,852]

The Dow closed down 610 points today in reaction to the vote. If you have some extra cash lying around, now might be a good time to jump in.

Yes, the 610 puts it at the low end of the trading range for the last 12 months...still up about 1500 points YTD...short term opportunity...volume was about 1/2 of normal trading volume mid-day the last time I checked..

Thanks Obama!

[AURaptor 1,122]

Our punk, arrogant Professor in Chief sure did get it shoved in his face. Just a few weeks ago, he was smugly threatening the citizens of Britain that if they didn't vote to stay, they'd be put at the back of the queue when it came to trade deals w/ the United States.

Pompous cracks like that might very well have been the push the voters needed.

Of course, this isn't the 1st time Obama chose to insert himself and his political philosophy into the affairs of another country.

He sent over his campaign staff to help defeat Netanyahu, only to get smacked down in that election as well.

[TexasTiger 12,852]

Our punk, arrogant Professor in Chief sure did get it shoved in his face. Just a few weeks ago, he was smugly threatening the citizens of Britain that if they didn't vote to stay, they'd be put at the back of the queue when it came to trade deals w/ the United States.

Pompous cracks like that might very well have been the push the voters needed.

Of course, this isn't the 1st time Obama chose to insert himself and his political philosophy into the affairs of another country.

He sent over his campaign staff to help defeat Netanyahu, only to get smacked down in that election as well.

You morons think this is about Obama. Priceless.

[augolf1716 21,123]

Our punk, arrogant Professor in Chief sure did get it shoved in his face. Just a few weeks ago, he was smugly threatening the citizens of Britain that if they didn't vote to stay, they'd be put at the back of the queue when it came to trade deals w/ the United States.

Pompous cracks like that might very well have been the push the voters needed.

Of course, this isn't the 1st time Obama chose to insert himself and his political philosophy into the affairs of another country.

He sent over his campaign staff to help defeat Netanyahu, only to get smacked down in that election as well.

You morons think this is about Obama. Priceless.

Ain't it

[AURaptor 1,122]

Our punk, arrogant Professor in Chief sure did get it shoved in his face. Just a few weeks ago, he was smugly threatening the citizens of Britain that if they didn't vote to stay, they'd be put at the back of the queue when it came to trade deals w/ the United States.

Pompous cracks like that might very well have been the push the voters needed.

Of course, this isn't the 1st time Obama chose to insert himself and his political philosophy into the affairs of another country.

He sent over his campaign staff to help defeat Netanyahu, only to get smacked down in that election as well.

You morons think this is about Obama. Priceless.

You must have missed the day comprehension was taught.

Barry goes plays Mr Badass, to this country's oldest ally, and tries to intimidate them, Chicago style, into staying in the EU.

Both he and Hillary sided w/ the losing side, and now once again, have to try to find a way to blame someone else for their incompetence.

How aren't you tired for trying to cover for this clueless blunder of a President ?

[channonc 466]

LOL

Trump was also gloating about how the devaluation of the British pound will help his golf courses by increasing tourism.

Assuming of course people can afford to take vacations.

Well, presumably he was referring to Americans, Europeans and Asians taking advantage of the exchange rates.

Oh I know, but given the market reaction, who knows if us "foreigners" will have the money. For the billionaires,nothing has changed, but for the rest of us, it's wait and see.

[TexasTiger 12,852]

Our punk, arrogant Professor in Chief sure did get it shoved in his face. Just a few weeks ago, he was smugly threatening the citizens of Britain that if they didn't vote to stay, they'd be put at the back of the queue when it came to trade deals w/ the United States.

Pompous cracks like that might very well have been the push the voters needed.

Of course, this isn't the 1st time Obama chose to insert himself and his political philosophy into the affairs of another country.

He sent over his campaign staff to help defeat Netanyahu, only to get smacked down in that election as well.

You morons think this is about Obama. Priceless.

You must have missed the day comprehension was taught.

Barry goes plays Mr Badass, to this country's oldest ally, and tries to intimidate them, Chicago style, into staying in the EU.

Both he and Hillary sided w/ the losing side, and now once again, have to try to find a way to blame someone else for their incompetence.

How aren't you tired for trying to cover for this clueless blunder of a President ?

Tired of being a mindless hater?

[AURaptor 1,122]

Poor thing. You still are in denial

Why is it that whenever you don't understand or agree with something, you simply call it " hate " ?

[TexasTiger 12,852]

Poor thing. You still are in denial

Why is it that whenever you don't understand or agree with something, you simply call it " hate " ?

You ooze anger and hate.

[AURaptor 1,122]

Poor thing. You still are in denial

Why is it that whenever you don't understand or agree with something, you simply call it " hate " ?

You ooze anger and hate.

So ? Your inability to understand or comprehend WHY is the bigger issue here.

Tell me, you don't hate anything?

There ARE things worth hating.

[TexasTiger 12,852]

Poor thing. You still are in denial

Why is it that whenever you don't understand or agree with something, you simply call it " hate " ?

You ooze anger and hate.

So ? Your inability to understand or comprehend WHY is the bigger issue here.

Tell me, you don't hate anything?

There ARE things worth hating.

Your outsized hatred of Obama leads you to blame him for Brexit which no rational, thinking, sane person does. You can't comprehend the why here. It's truly pathetic to think Obama played any meaningful role in the decision making process of the British public. They have their own history, culture, politics and reasons that have nothing to do with those you sit around stewing hate over.

[AURaptor 1,122]

Your outsized hatred of Obama leads you to blame him for Brexit which no rational, thinking, sane person does. You can't comprehend the why here. It's truly pathetic to think Obama played any meaningful role in the decision making process of the British public. They have their own history, culture, politics and reasons that have nothing to do with those you sit around stewing hate over.

No one BLAMED him for Brexit. I know you have the warm feels for Barry, but look past your Agitator in Chief mania and look at what he did, what he said, and then put that in context with how the people voted.

He ( and Hillary ) , once again, ended up on the wrong side of history. Obama backed Remain. He ACTIVELY tried to get Netanyahu out, and failed. The ridiculous ' RESET ' effort by he and Hillary was a joke. Oh yeah, then Libya. Took a compliant , albeit nut case leader in Gaddafi , and collapsed that country, got a US Amb. killed, and then lied about it...

But you'll gladly ignore ALL that and just reply with ' hate ', and act as if you've won some gorram moral 1st place prize for being awesome.