We need more gun laws!

[Auburn4life 24]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-weekend-violence-20160627-story.html

7 killed, at least 51 wounded in weekend shootings across city

[AUcivE09 582]

You know better than to point to the city with the strictest gun laws where Obama was the community planner as an example of tougher gun laws. Just because it failed miserably there does not mean it will not work for all of America.

[TitanTiger 20,708]

You know better than to point to the city with the strictest gun laws where Obama was the community planner as an example of tougher gun laws. Just because it failed miserably there does not mean it will not work for all of America.

First, I'm pro-2nd Amendment. I am a gun owner and my family is full of gun-owners, both for personal protection and for sport.

But this line of argumentation is silly. It doesn't matter if Chicago outlaws gun sales if you can go one county over, or just across the state line to Indiana and purchase guns easily. I don't point this out because I'm anti-gun, I point it out because if you're going to make arguments against more gun laws, this is a poor way to go about it.

[80Tiger 906]

You know better than to point to the city with the strictest gun laws where Obama was the community planner as an example of tougher gun laws. Just because it failed miserably there does not mean it will not work for all of America.

First, I'm pro-2nd Amendment. I am a gun owner and my family is full of gun-owners, both for personal protection and for sport.

But this line of argumentation is silly. It doesn't matter if Chicago outlaws gun sales if you can go one county over, or just across the state line to Indiana and purchase guns easily. I don't point this out because I'm anti-gun, I point it out because if you're going to make arguments against more gun laws, this is a poor way to go about it.

Titan, even though I don't agree with everything you say, you make sound arguments on many things. I would like to hear your thought on why the "next county over" thought process would not apply to the "next state or next country over" if you were to expand tougher gone laws. Aren't you just saying that those that want to get a gun will do it no matter what the gun laws are?

[TitanTiger 20,708]

You know better than to point to the city with the strictest gun laws where Obama was the community planner as an example of tougher gun laws. Just because it failed miserably there does not mean it will not work for all of America.

First, I'm pro-2nd Amendment. I am a gun owner and my family is full of gun-owners, both for personal protection and for sport.

But this line of argumentation is silly. It doesn't matter if Chicago outlaws gun sales if you can go one county over, or just across the state line to Indiana and purchase guns easily. I don't point this out because I'm anti-gun, I point it out because if you're going to make arguments against more gun laws, this is a poor way to go about it.

Titan, even though I don't agree with everything you say, you make sound arguments on many things. I would like to hear your thought on why the "next county over" thought process would not apply to the "next state or next country over" if you were to expand tougher gone laws. Aren't you just saying that those that want to get a gun will do it no matter what the gun laws are?

I'm saying that a Chicago gun ban tells you nothing, pro or con. And pointing out that <insert city, county or state> has strict gun laws but lots of gun crime tells you nothing. If (and that's a BIG if) you were to implement strict gun laws ala England, Australia, etc, it only works at all if it's nationwide and uniform. We can argue about whether ultimately even a nationwide ban would work, but I'll guarantee you it will always be more successful in reducing gun crimes and gun-related deaths than some piecemeal approach where Chicago ban gun sales but Gary, IN doesn't. Or Washington DC has strict gun laws but Virginia doesn't.

[Auburn4life 24]

You know better than to point to the city with the strictest gun laws where Obama was the community planner as an example of tougher gun laws. Just because it failed miserably there does not mean it will not work for all of America.

First, I'm pro-2nd Amendment. I am a gun owner and my family is full of gun-owners, both for personal protection and for sport.

But this line of argumentation is silly. It doesn't matter if Chicago outlaws gun sales if you can go one county over, or just across the state line to Indiana and purchase guns easily. I don't point this out because I'm anti-gun, I point it out because if you're going to make arguments against more gun laws, this is a poor way to go about it.

Titan, even though I don't agree with everything you say, you make sound arguments on many things. I would like to hear your thought on why the "next county over" thought process would not apply to the "next state or next country over" if you were to expand tougher gone laws. Aren't you just saying that those that want to get a gun will do it no matter what the gun laws are?

good point, just like Islamic terrorist will do whatever they can to cause destruction, no matter if they can access guns.

[homersapien 11,812]

You know better than to point to the city with the strictest gun laws where Obama was the community planner as an example of tougher gun laws. Just because it failed miserably there does not mean it will not work for all of America.

First, I'm pro-2nd Amendment. I am a gun owner and my family is full of gun-owners, both for personal protection and for sport.

But this line of argumentation is silly. It doesn't matter if Chicago outlaws gun sales if you can go one county over, or just across the state line to Indiana and purchase guns easily. I don't point this out because I'm anti-gun, I point it out because if you're going to make arguments against more gun laws, this is a poor way to go about it.

"Spoken like a true progressive".

[homersapien 11,812]

You know better than to point to the city with the strictest gun laws where Obama was the community planner as an example of tougher gun laws. Just because it failed miserably there does not mean it will not work for all of America.

First, I'm pro-2nd Amendment. I am a gun owner and my family is full of gun-owners, both for personal protection and for sport.

But this line of argumentation is silly. It doesn't matter if Chicago outlaws gun sales if you can go one county over, or just across the state line to Indiana and purchase guns easily. I don't point this out because I'm anti-gun, I point it out because if you're going to make arguments against more gun laws, this is a poor way to go about it.

Titan, even though I don't agree with everything you say, you make sound arguments on many things. I would like to hear your thought on why the "next county over" thought process would not apply to the "next state or next country over" if you were to expand tougher gone laws. Aren't you just saying that those that want to get a gun will do it no matter what the gun laws are?

good point, just like Islamic terrorist will do whatever they can to cause destruction, no matter if they can access guns.

Yeah, so we might as well make it easy for them..... :-\

[AUcivE09 582]

You know better than to point to the city with the strictest gun laws where Obama was the community planner as an example of tougher gun laws. Just because it failed miserably there does not mean it will not work for all of America.

First, I'm pro-2nd Amendment. I am a gun owner and my family is full of gun-owners, both for personal protection and for sport.

But this line of argumentation is silly. It doesn't matter if Chicago outlaws gun sales if you can go one county over, or just across the state line to Indiana and purchase guns easily. I don't point this out because I'm anti-gun, I point it out because if you're going to make arguments against more gun laws, this is a poor way to go about it.

I can give you that. I just don't believe the restriction helps at all. It is the same locations consistently at the top of the murder-by-gun list. If guns were the true issue my hometown would be a wasteland of death. I believe it to be more of a culture issue. I also believe you can accomplish much more through gun safety than you can by banning people based on some list. Terrorists are an anomaly who will find a way to do harm. I am more concerned about the 3 year olds finding loaded guns with no lock on nightstands - inadvertent shooting because someone carried a gun without the safety on - or the infamous shot someone with an 'unloaded' gun.

The southside of Chicago has a problem running much deeper than guns.

[bigbird 60,701]

What would have happened in Chicago?

https://www.google.com/amp/ktla.com/2016/06/27/oregon-mother-shoots-kills-intruder-found-hiding-in-kids-bedroom/amp/?client=ms-android-att-us#

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

What would have happened in Chicago?

https://www.google.c...android-att-us#

Depends. You can own and conceal carry now in Chicago. She legally has it and shot an intruder waiting in her own home not a thing will happen to her.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

http://www.chicagotr...0627-story.html

7 killed, at least 51 wounded in weekend shootings across city

Break that down per capita by population then tell me where it is dangerous to live.

You are safer in Chicago than in Selma, Anniston, Jasper, and Gadsden.

http://www.safewise.com/blog/the-30-most-dangerous-cities-in-america-2016/

Wanna know how not to get shot in Chicago? Don't be a Latin King or a Gangsta Disciple and hang out with them and encroach on the others corners in Hyde Park and Englewood where the college and white suburb kids go to buy their drugs.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

You know better than to point to the city with the strictest gun laws where Obama was the community planner as an example of tougher gun laws. Just because it failed miserably there does not mean it will not work for all of America.

First, I'm pro-2nd Amendment. I am a gun owner and my family is full of gun-owners, both for personal protection and for sport.

But this line of argumentation is silly. It doesn't matter if Chicago outlaws gun sales if you can go one county over, or just across the state line to Indiana and purchase guns easily. I don't point this out because I'm anti-gun, I point it out because if you're going to make arguments against more gun laws, this is a poor way to go about it.

Titan, even though I don't agree with everything you say, you make sound arguments on many things. I would like to hear your thought on why the "next county over" thought process would not apply to the "next state or next country over" if you were to expand tougher gone laws. Aren't you just saying that those that want to get a gun will do it no matter what the gun laws are?

I'm saying that a Chicago gun ban tells you nothing, pro or con. And pointing out that <insert city, county or state> has strict gun laws but lots of gun crime tells you nothing. If (and that's a BIG if) you were to implement strict gun laws ala England, Australia, etc, it only works at all if it's nationwide and uniform. We can argue about whether ultimately even a nationwide ban would work, but I'll guarantee you it will always be more successful in reducing gun crimes and gun-related deaths than some piecemeal approach where Chicago ban gun sales but Gary, IN doesn't. Or Washington DC has strict gun laws but Virginia doesn't.

This.

Majority of guns in Chicago come from Indiana, Tenn, and Miss. They go where the gun laws are the least restrictive.

I saw a cool report/article somewhere that did a trace on where guns that were used in crimes were bought, and how long it took them to be involved in a crime after purchase. As you can imagine the time difference from states with less restrictive laws had significantly more guns involved in crimes and at a significantly faster rate.

Anyone that thinks that gun laws will completely eradicate gun violence is an idiot, and anyone that thinks gun laws don't have an impact is an idiot. There is a reason people leave Chicago to get guns for crimes, now imagine if the places they went had the same laws that were making them look elsewhere.

[TheBlueVue 177]

You know better than to point to the city with the strictest gun laws where Obama was the community planner as an example of tougher gun laws. Just because it failed miserably there does not mean it will not work for all of America.

First, I'm pro-2nd Amendment. I am a gun owner and my family is full of gun-owners, both for personal protection and for sport.

But this line of argumentation is silly. It doesn't matter if Chicago outlaws gun sales if you can go one county over, or just across the state line to Indiana and purchase guns easily. I don't point this out because I'm anti-gun, I point it out because if you're going to make arguments against more gun laws, this is a poor way to go about it.

I have my doubts about the source of the guns used in the Southside of Chicago because most of the murders ther are gang related drug turf wars. My hunch is an overwhelming majority of the guns used there are sourced illegally and will continue to be illegally sourced regardless what kind of gun regulations are enacted. Its like Marco Rubio correctly pointed out, criminals are called criminals because they don't obey the law. What makes anyone believe they'll observe gun laws? IMO, Chicago is the poster child for that sentiment.

[TitanTiger 20,708]

You know better than to point to the city with the strictest gun laws where Obama was the community planner as an example of tougher gun laws. Just because it failed miserably there does not mean it will not work for all of America.

First, I'm pro-2nd Amendment. I am a gun owner and my family is full of gun-owners, both for personal protection and for sport.

But this line of argumentation is silly. It doesn't matter if Chicago outlaws gun sales if you can go one county over, or just across the state line to Indiana and purchase guns easily. I don't point this out because I'm anti-gun, I point it out because if you're going to make arguments against more gun laws, this is a poor way to go about it.

I have my doubts about the source of the guns used in the Southside of Chicago because most of the murders ther are gang related drug turf wars. My hunch is an overwhelming majority of the guns used there are sourced illegally and will continue to be illegally sourced regardless what kind of gun regulations are enacted. Its like Marco Rubio correctly pointed out, criminals are called criminals because they don't obey the law. What makes anyone believe they'll observe gun laws? IMO, Chicago is the poster child for that sentiment.

You may be right. But I'm just pointing out that gun control laws do seem to have worked in Britain and Australia for instance. But it's not something that can work if London has strict controls but the surrounding suburbs or Birmingham, England don't. It has to be comprehensive and nationwide.

[TheBlueVue 177]

You know better than to point to the city with the strictest gun laws where Obama was the community planner as an example of tougher gun laws. Just because it failed miserably there does not mean it will not work for all of America.

First, I'm pro-2nd Amendment. I am a gun owner and my family is full of gun-owners, both for personal protection and for sport.

But this line of argumentation is silly. It doesn't matter if Chicago outlaws gun sales if you can go one county over, or just across the state line to Indiana and purchase guns easily. I don't point this out because I'm anti-gun, I point it out because if you're going to make arguments against more gun laws, this is a poor way to go about it.

I have my doubts about the source of the guns used in the Southside of Chicago because most of the murders ther are gang related drug turf wars. My hunch is an overwhelming majority of the guns used there are sourced illegally and will continue to be illegally sourced regardless what kind of gun regulations are enacted. Its like Marco Rubio correctly pointed out, criminals are called criminals because they don't obey the law. What makes anyone believe they'll observe gun laws? IMO, Chicago is the poster child for that sentiment.

You may be right. But I'm just pointing out that gun control laws do seem to have worked in Britain and Australia for instance. But it's not something that can work if London has strict controls but the surrounding suburbs or Birmingham, England don't. It has to be comprehensive and nationwide.

Check the comparative crime rates of USA versus England or Australia..you'll be amazed by the difference. I was in Germany one year and a detective with the Munich police had a second job as a driver for a company that took people to Bavaria. He told me Munich which is a city about like Atlanta had 1 homicide the year before and 1 breaking and entering. I realize this is anecdotal but I'm simply not convinced stricter gun laws will work as well in America as they have in other countries because of a much more pervasive criminal element in the US. Definitely accept that I could very well be wrong.

[TitanTiger 20,708]

You know better than to point to the city with the strictest gun laws where Obama was the community planner as an example of tougher gun laws. Just because it failed miserably there does not mean it will not work for all of America.

First, I'm pro-2nd Amendment. I am a gun owner and my family is full of gun-owners, both for personal protection and for sport.

But this line of argumentation is silly. It doesn't matter if Chicago outlaws gun sales if you can go one county over, or just across the state line to Indiana and purchase guns easily. I don't point this out because I'm anti-gun, I point it out because if you're going to make arguments against more gun laws, this is a poor way to go about it.

I have my doubts about the source of the guns used in the Southside of Chicago because most of the murders ther are gang related drug turf wars. My hunch is an overwhelming majority of the guns used there are sourced illegally and will continue to be illegally sourced regardless what kind of gun regulations are enacted. Its like Marco Rubio correctly pointed out, criminals are called criminals because they don't obey the law. What makes anyone believe they'll observe gun laws? IMO, Chicago is the poster child for that sentiment.

You may be right. But I'm just pointing out that gun control laws do seem to have worked in Britain and Australia for instance. But it's not something that can work if London has strict controls but the surrounding suburbs or Birmingham, England don't. It has to be comprehensive and nationwide.

Check the comparative crime rates of USA versus England or Australia..you'll be amazed by the difference. I was in Germany one year and a detective with the Munich police had a second job as a driver for a company that took people to Bavaria. He told me Munich which is a city about like Atlanta had 1 homicide the year before and 1 breaking and entering. I realize this is anecdotal but I'm simply not convinced stricter gun laws will work as well in America as they have in other countries because of a much more pervasive criminal element in the US. Definitely accept that I could very well be wrong.

I think it's a tad convenient to just write off dramatic differences in intentional homicide rates to "we have a more pervasive criminal element." I just don't buy that. I mean, just as recently as 2010, Sweden, Belgium, Australia and Austria all had higher rates of rape than the USA, and New Zealand, Iceland and Norway were all within shouting distance. Belgium, Spain and Portugal all had higher robbery rates while Italy, Canada and Sweden were all not too far behind.

I don't think industrialized "Western" countries are that drastically different in the kinds of people who live there.

[TheBlueVue 177]

You know better than to point to the city with the strictest gun laws where Obama was the community planner as an example of tougher gun laws. Just because it failed miserably there does not mean it will not work for all of America.

First, I'm pro-2nd Amendment. I am a gun owner and my family is full of gun-owners, both for personal protection and for sport.

But this line of argumentation is silly. It doesn't matter if Chicago outlaws gun sales if you can go one county over, or just across the state line to Indiana and purchase guns easily. I don't point this out because I'm anti-gun, I point it out because if you're going to make arguments against more gun laws, this is a poor way to go about it.

I have my doubts about the source of the guns used in the Southside of Chicago because most of the murders ther are gang related drug turf wars. My hunch is an overwhelming majority of the guns used there are sourced illegally and will continue to be illegally sourced regardless what kind of gun regulations are enacted. Its like Marco Rubio correctly pointed out, criminals are called criminals because they don't obey the law. What makes anyone believe they'll observe gun laws? IMO, Chicago is the poster child for that sentiment.

You may be right. But I'm just pointing out that gun control laws do seem to have worked in Britain and Australia for instance. But it's not something that can work if London has strict controls but the surrounding suburbs or Birmingham, England don't. It has to be comprehensive and nationwide.

Check the comparative crime rates of USA versus England or Australia..you'll be amazed by the difference. I was in Germany one year and a detective with the Munich police had a second job as a driver for a company that took people to Bavaria. He told me Munich which is a city about like Atlanta had 1 homicide the year before and 1 breaking and entering. I realize this is anecdotal but I'm simply not convinced stricter gun laws will work as well in America as they have in other countries because of a much more pervasive criminal element in the US. Definitely accept that I could very well be wrong.

I think it's a tad convenient to just write off dramatic differences in intentional homicide rates to "we have a more pervasive criminal element." I just don't buy that. I mean, just as recently as 2010, Sweden, Belgium, Australia and Austria all had higher rates of rape than the USA, and New Zealand, Iceland and Norway were all within shouting distance. Belgium, Spain and Portugal all had higher robbery rates while Italy, Canada and Sweden were all not too far behind.

I don't think industrialized "Western" countries are that drastically different in the kinds of people who live there.

You may not buy it but, there's a reason the Bobbies in England aren't even armed. Dismiss it if you wish, the criminal element is vastly more violent in the US than in Europe regardless of the rape comparisons we're talking about gun violence - its different.

[TitanTiger 20,708]

You may not buy it but, there's a reason the Bobbies in England aren't even armed. Dismiss it if you wish, the criminal element is vastly more violent in the US than in Europe regardless of the rape comparisons we're talking about gun violence - its different.

When you look at the other violent crime rates and they are about the same or worse, but intentional homicides are are less, it's kinda hard to ignore the obvious difference of it being much harder if not completely illegal to have most guns in those countries. Especially when you consider that 67% of all homicides in the US are committed with a firearm.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

You know better than to point to the city with the strictest gun laws where Obama was the community planner as an example of tougher gun laws. Just because it failed miserably there does not mean it will not work for all of America.

First, I'm pro-2nd Amendment. I am a gun owner and my family is full of gun-owners, both for personal protection and for sport.

But this line of argumentation is silly. It doesn't matter if Chicago outlaws gun sales if you can go one county over, or just across the state line to Indiana and purchase guns easily. I don't point this out because I'm anti-gun, I point it out because if you're going to make arguments against more gun laws, this is a poor way to go about it.

I have my doubts about the source of the guns used in the Southside of Chicago because most of the murders ther are gang related drug turf wars. My hunch is an overwhelming majority of the guns used there are sourced illegally and will continue to be illegally sourced regardless what kind of gun regulations are enacted. Its like Marco Rubio correctly pointed out, criminals are called criminals because they don't obey the law. What makes anyone believe they'll observe gun laws? IMO, Chicago is the poster child for that sentiment.

I've met several GD's when I did charity work on the Southside involving very young children. It pretty much works like this:

According to court records, Geralds worked with David Lewisbey, of South Holland, Ill., to buy guns at shows in Crown Point and Indianapolis from independent dealers who sell from their own collections. These sellers do not have to file the regulations that other dealers do, such as checking a buyer's history. Instead, they just have to verify that a buyer lives in Indiana.

Federal attorneys said in court records that Lewisbey used a forged signature to get an Indiana driver's license, which allowed him to buy from these sellers.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/news/ct-ptb-crown-point-gun-shows-sentence-st-1003-20151002-story.html

They go where it is easiest to buy guns and they get individuals with clean records to do straw purchases, which is something Chicago cracks down on in regard to reporting your gun stolen within days and repercussions if it is used in a crime.