Potential offensive changes coming

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 hour ago, auburnphan said:

If Rhett is still the QB coach I believe that some of the PTB will be grabbing pitch forks, unless Rhett spends months training under a qualified QB coach to learn how to teach fundamentals of the QB position, such as footwork.  

I realize that this is popular message board opinion, based entirely on a couple of failed QBs, but don't you find it interesting that 2 separate very high level QB recruits have either signed with or are planning to sign with Auburn because, according to them, they want Rhett coaching them?

[JFDTiger80 790]

So, some offensive coaching changes are likely before the end of February. It would be great if it were an OC that allows the QB to spin it more, esp if this OC is a known excellent recruiter too.

[AuCivilEng1 11,026]

3 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I realize that this is popular message board opinion, based entirely on a couple of failed QBs, but don't you find it interesting that 2 separate very high level QB recruits have either signed with or are planning to sign with Auburn because, according to them, they want Rhett coaching them?

Maybe Rhett is just good at selling himself. Tons of people are able to get what they want, because of their ability to sell themselves, whether they have qualifications or not...................???. 

Anyway. What could these recruits really see that would make them think Rhett is the best guy to coach them? There is no proof of his abilities. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, AuCivilEng1 said:

Maybe Rhett is just good at selling himself. Tons of people are able to get what they want, because of their ability to sell themselves, whether they have qualifications or not...................???. 

Anyway. What could these recruits really see that would make them think Rhett is the best guy to coach them? There is no proof of his abilities. 

Recruits see A LOT more than we do. They get invited to practice. They talk to QBs who have played for him. To think that anyone on this board has a deeper knowledge of our coaches capabilities than the players they are recruiting is naive at best. To think a player who has NFL potential is going to toss that away over some good salesmanship is also very questionable, especially a player who is as planned out about his career path as Stidham.

Reality is, as much as pretty much all of us think Gus would be better with someone other than Rhett (In my case, because the fact that he learned from Gus brings no new ideas to the table), there is a large faction that needs to come to terms with the fact that there is a good chance that he IS a good QB coach. 

[AuCivilEng1 11,026]

7 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Recruits see A LOT more than we do. They get invited to practice. They talk to QBs who have played for him. To think that anyone on this board has a deeper knowledge of our coaches capabilities than the players they are recruiting is naive at best. To think a player who has NFL potential is going to toss that away over some good salesmanship is also very questionable, especially a player who is as planned out about his career path as Stidham.

Reality is, as much as pretty much all of us think Gus would be better with someone other than Rhett (In my case, because the fact that he learned from Gus brings no new ideas to the table), there is a large faction that needs to come to terms with the fact that there is a good chance that he IS a good QB coach. 

If Stidham comes in and lights it up for the next couple of seasons and then we transition to Woody and he lights it up, I think most of us will lay off of the Rhett can't coach juice. All we have to go off of is 

Nick Marshall - great athlete and leader, but streaky qb fundamentals.

JJ - highly sought after recruit with great potential. Bust

Sean White - great decision maker, except for not sliding when he should. Sketchy long ball. Has been said that he throws all of his weight into his short ball, to the point that he falls down.

[AUApostle 7,658]

I haven't looked up any stats to back this up, but I don't think 28 ppg is going to cut it in today's game.  Anyway, sure Rhett has his own ideas and abilities, but most of his experience has come under Gus...it would be pretty hard to look outside of that and develop a unique philosophy unless he truly devotes most of his time to exploring different training and design techniques.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

10 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

If Stidham comes in and lights it up for the next couple of seasons and then we transition to Woody and he lights it up, I think most of us will lay off of the Rhett can't coach juice. All we have to go off of is 

Nick Marshall - great athlete and leader, but streaky qb fundamentals. - Who's passing improved dramatically from year 1 to 2

JJ - highly sought after recruit with great potential. Bust - which has absolutely no bearing on the QB coach or every QB coach would be awful, because every one has busts, frequently. 

Sean White - great decision maker, except for not sliding when he should. Sketchy long ball. Has been said that he throws all of his weight into his short ball, to the point that he falls down. - Sean falls down on his long ball, not his short ball.  His short ball is one of the better ones in the game.  He's also very accurate with his intermediate ball. While there could be some help that can be given for his long ball, odds are he needs strength and conditioning before fundamentals can be applied.

See above...

The real failure with our QBs is on Gus and the recruiters for failing to land the top targets, taking chances on long shots, and failing to recruit enough bodies to compensate for busts.

[AuCivilEng1 11,026]

2 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

See above...

The real failure with our QBs is on Gus and the recruiters for failing to land the top targets, taking chances on long shots, and failing to recruit enough bodies to compensate for busts.

All of the QB's we have on the roster were considered good recruits. Jeremy was a superstar and Sean was an elite eleven mvp. I feel like what you're saying is that Rhett has done a sufficient enough job to not be blamed for our QB problems. I just can't figure out how you can feel this way. And you were just talking about how Lashlee is a factor in QB's decisions to come here. So does he not take the blame for and failed long shots?

[AuCivilEng1 11,026]

The fact of the matter is, we have 3 main QB's who get playing time on our roster. 2 of them look like they haven't taken a snap in our offense before, when they're out there. And the starter, thank the good Lord, seems to know what's going on, for the most part. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

All of the QB's we have on the roster were considered good recruits. Jeremy was a superstar and Sean was an elite eleven mvp. I feel like what you're saying is that Rhett has done a sufficient enough job to not be blamed for our QB problems. I just can't figure out how you can feel this way. And you were just talking about how Lashlee is a factor in QB's decisions to come here. So does he not take the blame for and failed long shots?

When it comes down to it, the final decision on who to recruit falls on Gus, so he gets the blame for Franklin.  He also gets the blame for not compensating for the loss of Queen and Johnson by bringing in another QB along with Sean.  Fortunately he's finally figured that out, which is why we have Willis along with Stidham this year.

One giant fallacy that I see around here all the time is that a bust or the inability to make a project work is on the QB coach. The reality is some kids have it and some don't and no QB coach is going to be able to turn the not haves into the haves. If they could, there would be A LOT more QBs vying for positions in the NFL. That's why it's vital to have as many options as possible so if one doesn't pan out, you can move to the next. I know, the argument is "what about guys like Lamar Jackson?" Jackson had it all along, he just needed refinement. Hopefully that's where Woody is.  We'll see.

[DAG 34,016]

3 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

When it comes down to it, the final decision on who to recruit falls on Gus, so he gets the blame for Franklin.  He also gets the blame for not compensating for the loss of Queen and Johnson by bringing in another QB along with Sean.  Fortunately he's finally figured that out, which is why we have Willis along with Stidham this year.

One giant fallacy that I see around here all the time is that a bust or the inability to make a project work is on the QB coach. The reality is some kids have it and some don't and no QB coach is going to be able to turn the not haves into the haves. If they could, there would be A LOT more QBs vying for positions in the NFL. That's why it's vital to have as many options as possible so if one doesn't pan out, you can move to the next. I know, the argument is "what about guys like Lamar Jackson?" Jackson had it all along, he just needed refinement. Hopefully that's where Woody is.  We'll see.

 

Lamar Jackson is one of those diamond in the roughs. He fell into a perfect storm being with Petrino. I would not want to use him as a sample and people who do need to find some logic.

[auburnphan 6,050]

55 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I realize that this is popular message board opinion, based entirely on a couple of failed QBs, but don't you find it interesting that 2 separate very high level QB recruits have either signed with or are planning to sign with Auburn because, according to them, they want Rhett coaching them?

Lets put it this way, I am a chef, own my own business, doing very well.  However to get to where I am now I worked under many great chefs to learn techniques, business operations, kitchen management, etc.and culinary school to become who I am now.  If I just worked under the first cook(not chef) that I started under in High School I would have not gained any of the abilities that I have now unless I put in the time myself outside of my job.   Now Rhett has worked with the same guy who coached him since he was in high school, basically.  The chefs I learned the least from were control freaks.  What is Gus described as?  Could Rhett be a great coach, sure.  That is why I said that he needs to go and train more and apply the technique cuz right now he is still making canned soups because he doesn't have the training to make them from scratch.  He needs to learn the proper techniques

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

Lamar Jackson is one of those diamond in the roughs. He fell into a perfect storm being with Petrino. I would not want to use him as a sample and people who do need to find some logic.

Agreed, but I get it when people use him because he was a low value recruit and had his struggles his first year. Baker Mayfield is similar. That being said, if people think they are where they are because of their QB coaches, then they are giving the coach WAY too much credit.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, auburnphan said:

Lets put it this way, I am a chef, own my own business, doing very well.  However to get to where I am now I worked under many great chefs to learn techniques, business operations, kitchen management, etc.and culinary school to become who I am now.  If I just worked under the first cook(not chef) that I started under in High School I would have not gained any of the abilities that I have now unless I put in the time myself outside of my job.   Now Rhett has worked with the same guy who coached him since he was in high school, basically.  The chefs I learned the least from were control freaks.  What is Gus described as?  Could Rhett be a great coach, sure.  That is why I said that he needs to go and train more and apply the technique cuz right now he is still making canned soups because he doesn't have the training to make them from scratch.  He needs to learn the proper techniques

I agree with you 100% on this when it comes to Rhett as an OC or potential head coach.  I think the exact same thing applies to Gus. I imagine you also do things like cook in other's kitchens, bring in guest chefs, etc to continue to expand your skills and ideas, and I think Gus needs to bring in a new "sous chef" because he's been working with the same one, who he trained from culinary school, for too long.

As far as Rhett as a QB coach... fundamentals are fundamentals. It's not like your line cooks are going to learn a bunch of new ways to do it by working under several sous chefs. It is what it is, and according to the people who are most served by Rhett's QB coaching skills... he's pretty good at it.

[DAG 34,016]

6 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Agreed, but I get it when people use him because he was a low value recruit and had his struggles his first year. Baker Mayfield is similar. That being said, if people think they are where they are because of their QB coaches, then they are giving the coach WAY too much credit.

 

 

 

QB coaches are huge. This is where I disagree. You cannot teach athleticism and work ethic, but footwork/throwing technique, etc is all coaching. Lamar Jackson was a completely different QB from year 1 to 2. His athletic prowess did not change, but as a pocket passer, he had completely grown. I attribute a lot of that to Petrino. Let me also say, I do not believe that would have been the case had he come to AU. Just my opinion.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, DAG said:

QB coaches are huge. This is where I disagree. You cannot teach athleticism and work ethic, but footwork/throwing technique, etc is all coaching. Lamar Jackson was a completely different QB from year 1 to 2. His athletic prowess did not change, but the caliber of a pocket passing had completely grown. I attribute a lot of that to Petrino. Let me also say, I do not believe that would have been the case had he come to AU. Just my opinion.

Don't misunderstand me.  I totally agree that they were coached up. I just don't think they were coached up that much better by their QB coach than they would be by any other QB coach. Fundamentals are fundamentals. It's why you apply talent an athletic ability to those fundamentals that you get success.

Where we disagree is that I think Lamar Jackson and Baker Mayfield would both be world beaters if they were at AU, and we would be 2 National Championships ahead if we had either one.

[auburnphan 6,050]

2 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I agree with you 100% on this when it comes to Rhett as an OC or potential head coach.  I think the exact same thing applies to Gus. I imagine you also do things like cook in other's kitchens, bring in guest chefs, etc to continue to expand your skills and ideas, and I think Gus needs to bring in a new "sous chef" because he's been working with the same one, who he trained from culinary school, for too long.

As far as Rhett as a QB coach... fundamentals are fundamentals. It's not like your line cooks are going to learn a bunch of new ways to do it by working under several sous chefs. It is what it is, and according to the people who are most served by Rhett's QB coaching skills... he's pretty good at it.

Actually learning knife techniques organizational skills, adapting your senses all can be learned in this area just like a qb coach.  Film of JJ, SW etc they have the same fundamentals as high school film.  The same can be said for Gus with KF

[DAG 34,016]

Just now, lionheartkc said:

Don't misunderstand me.  I totally agree that they were coached up. I just don't think they were coached up that much better by their QB coach than they would be by any other QB coach. Fundamentals are fundamentals. It's why you apply talent an athletic ability to those fundamentals that you get success.

Where we disagree is that I think Lamar Jackson and Baker Mayfield would both be world beaters if they were at AU, and we would be 2 National Championships ahead if we had either one.

1

I actually agree with this. I think where we disagree is their progression as QBs. Personally, the only similarities I see between LJ and Mayfield was their 3-star rating. I watched Baker Mayfield as a freshman and he did have this it factor, which you speak of, but he also was very polished in his technique. You can tell he was just young and needed to mature. It also helped that he is at OU and not Texas Tech. LJ was extremely raw as a true freshman. The best athlete on the field but lacking in the pocket, unlike Mayfield. Still, I think if both were at AU, both sides would complement each other. My only concern would be the progression as LJ as a QB here. 

[Dixie1860 27]

All depends on the NCAA, and whether they add another on field assistant.

Then we have to negotiate McGlynn...and with him around, we are not going to hire anyone like a Briles. Even if they are innocent. He (RM) will not let it happen.

Thus, my reason for starting threads on other sites, and putting out the warning!

If Ole Miss/Bammer, can do what they have done, we need to get in the game!! 

I appreciate Rich for what he has done. But the time has come...

[lionheartkc 6,150]

4 minutes ago, Dixie1860 said:

All depends on the NCAA, and whether they add another on field assistant.

Then we have to negotiate McGlynn...and with him around, we are not going to hire anyone like a Briles. Even if they are innocent. He (RM) will not let it happen.

Thus, my reason for starting threads on other sites, and putting out the warning!

If Ole Miss/Bammer, can do what they have done, we need to get in the game!! 

I appreciate Rich for what he has done. But the time has come...

You can't get rid of Rich unless you get rid of the REC. He is the firewall between them and their constant attacks on AU. We haven't even sniffed NCAA sanctions since he came on board. Sure they tried in 2010, but they failed, and we are still the only school in history to get a clean bill of health after an investigation. If we soften up our compliance, bama will pounce on the slightest thing and we'll be back in the NCAA doghouse. 

It sucks, but it's the reality of being rivals of the team who runs the NCAA.

[alexava 6,973]

Two years of struggles is enough to ruffle any fan. I just tend to think the problem is almost all on the qb position and roster mgt/ recruiting. We didn't resolve the problem the last offseason. Jf3 was not the answer and I'm not sure there was another option. Going into 2015 Jeremy was propped up by the national media as a top 3-4 hiesman contender not based on anything he had accomplished on the football field. It was based on what Gus had done on the sidelines. Jeremy didn't work out and has yet to be replaced by a dependable talent. I don't know when that will happen. 

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

47 minutes ago, Dixie1860 said:

All depends on the NCAA, and whether they add another on field assistant.

Then we have to negotiate McGlynn...and with him around, we are not going to hire anyone like a Briles. Even if they are innocent. He (RM) will not let it happen.

Thus, my reason for starting threads on other sites, and putting out the warning!

If Ole Miss/Bammer, can do what they have done, we need to get in the game!! 

I appreciate Rich for what he has done. But the time has come...

I can understand and sympathize with the sentiment.

I must, however, disagree with both the proposed remedy and its axiomatic characterization of the situation.

We don't need to join'em in this case, and it's not a beatable "game."

[ellitor 33,114]

4 hours ago, AU04ever said:

E, you may be 100% correct but you can insert any top tier team's name in this statement and it be true.

To say OSU would have beaten Clemson is just as incorrect. They may have played better in said week but had they played each other Clemson may have performed better. There's no crystal balls and that's why it should be settled on the field. Maybe this will drive a 6 or 8 team playoff eventually. jmo

No it's not and as I said earlier we are done with this derailment subject in this thread.

[ellitor 33,114]

2 hours ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

Anyway. What could these recruits really see that would make them think Rhett is the best guy to coach them? There is no proof of his abilities. 

He could be blowing smoke but Stidham said he was very high on how Rhett developed Nick & Sean FWIW.

[auburnphan 6,050]

33 minutes ago, ellitor said:

He could be blowing smoke but Stidham said he was very high on how Rhett developed Nick & Sean FWIW.

like Snoop Dogg style