Teammates: Davis made decision to sit out

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

You make it so easy to respond. lol.

If I'm going to be loudmouth angry guy, I can at least be courteous about it

[DAG 33,982]

8 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

He could get hurt in practice, training for the NFL draft, or walking to his car.  Look at Tom Brady, cutting his hand open in practice.  Things happen.  And if players know they are 1st rounders, why not sit out more games than the bowl game?  You are more likely to become injured during the season than the bowl games due to fatigue and nagging injuries where you can better rest up for the bowl game.  All I am saying is we need ground rules, or players are going to start taking it further and further.  And like I said, same for coaches too.

1. They have to build up a body of work prior to the bowl game. Quite a few commentators just knew JS was a heisman candidate and top draft pick based off of his potential until he actually played

2. CD did play throughout the season with those risks. So if, anything , you should salute him on his way out

3. Do you think it is synonymous to compare walking to a car and playing a game of football? About as synonymous as comparing getting struck by lighting to a war veteran.

4. TB did have a freak accident and he played. Guess what?  Things like that normally don’t happen. Go back and tell me how often something like that has happened to a QB or even player for that matter. Furthermore, Do you think Tom Brady would’ve played if it was the last game of the season? I am sure playing to go to the super bowl made a difference , even for that freak accident. 

Some of these are huge reaches. Also you never even tried to address my hypothetical to you. 

[DAG 33,982]

23 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

here is something to chew on since we have heard it all so to speak. what if a kid did not want to catch grief for sitting out so he goes in and plays NOT to get hurt? kj admitted his refusal to come out of games earlier hurt the team more than once. now i am not jumping kj and i love watching him play. that being said those were his words and not mine.people can mail in games and hurt us as bad or maybe worse if there is another talented kid behind him wanting to play. shrugs........just a thought. this one might not hold water but it is a thought.

Thank you! I was just about to quote this.

[bigbird 60,525]

20 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

If I'm going to be loudmouth angry guy, I can at least be courteous about it

Well, that's one of y'all

[abw0004 10,113]

6 minutes ago, DAG said:

1. They have to build up a body of work prior to the bowl game. Quite a few commentators just knew JS was a heisman candidate and top draft pick based off of his potential until he actually played

2. CD did play throughout the season with those risks. So if, anything , you should salute him on his way out

3. Do you think it is synonymous to compare walking to a car and playing a game of football? About as synonymous as comparing getting struck by lighting to a war veteran.

4. TB did have a freak accident and he played. Guess what?  Things like that normally don’t happen. Go back and tell me how often something like that has happened to a QB or even player for that matter. Furthermore, Do you think Tom Brady would’ve played if it was the last game of the season? I am sure playing to go to the super bowl made a difference , even for that freak accident. 

Some of these are huge reaches. Also you never even tried to address my hypothetical to you. 

They aren't reaches.

1.  If they already have a body of work, why play?  Going into the season, Minkah Fitzpatrick was going to be a 1st round pick.  So he should he have sat out the season to prevent injury?  That is where my question lies, is where does that stop.  Ground rules are needed.

2.  I don't hate the guy, but I wouldn't salute him for bailing on his team.  That is just not how I am built or raised.  I finish everything I start and see it through.  I am just disappointed.  Not angry, but disappointed.

3.  It is synonymous, but you are trying to take me out of context.  The point of the statement was people can get injured doing anything.  Not playing games out of fear of injury can get out of hand very quickly, hence again, why we need ground rules.

4.  Freak accidents happen, whether you are in the game or not.  Injuries after all, are accidents.  Another example is Carl Lawson, who suffered his ACL tear in practice, not in the game.  If this injury happened when Tom was in college, I do think he would have played that bowl game.  I do not see him sitting it out, just like KJ and Tre Williams played.  Injures happen everywhere.

Regarding your hypothetical, they already do this.  That is what Lloyd's of London does, is they insure players for the monetary value lost if they potentially fall in the draft due to injury.  Now, maybe it might be worth a discussion of insuring more potential players and in return they play all of the games.

[DAG 33,982]

23 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

They aren't reaches.

1.  If they already have a body of work, why play?  Going into the season, Minkah Fitzpatrick was going to be a 1st round pick.  So he should he have sat out the season to prevent injury?  That is where my question lies, is where does that stop.  Ground rules are needed.

2.  I don't hate the guy, but I wouldn't salute him for bailing on his team.  That is just not how I am built or raised.  I finish everything I start and see it through.  I am just disappointed.  Not angry, but disappointed.

3.  It is synonymous, but you are trying to take me out of context.  The point of the statement was people can get injured doing anything.  Not playing games out of fear of injury can get out of hand very quickly, hence again, why we need ground rules.

4.  Freak accidents happen, whether you are in the game or not.  Injuries after all, are accidents.  Another example is Carl Lawson, who suffered his ACL tear in practice, not in the game.  If this injury happened when Tom was in college, I do think he would have played that bowl game.  I do not see him sitting it out, just like KJ and Tre Williams played.  Injures happen everywhere.

Regarding your hypothetical, they already do this.  That is what Lloyd's of London does, is they insure players for the monetary value lost if they potentially fall in the draft due to injury.  Now, maybe it might be worth a discussion of insuring more potential players and in return they play all of the games.

One more time . The body work is not done . It hurts you to sit out a whole year vs help your projection . That is why someone like Clowney , who honestly could’ve left after his sophomore year , still played . Same with LF. Not just from an injury standpoint , but also from a perception standpoint . I don’t see a player ever doing something like that. Now you can argue “how hard they played in every game?” But to sit out a whole damn year? Come on man.

Tearing your ACL in a sporting event is a standard injury man. Happens every year , in almost every sport , at every level. Tom Brady injury was a freak injury. Walking to your car and having a substantial injury like that would also be a freak injury for a common, every day working individual.

Would TB in COLLEGE? Maybe, but guess what? He wasn’t no 1st rounder coming out of college so I would probably tell TB, if you can compete  you need to compete to help your draft status. I doubt Bill Belichick would’ve let him play the last game of this season though.

Lawson tore his ACL during spring practice as an underclass man. How is that anywhere close to the potential of CD tearing something in bowl practice . Last time I checked, CD participated in spring practice , participated in fall practice , participated in every regular season practice and participated in every game this regular season. He did not participate in bowl practice for various reasons. If Lawson got hurt doing that, this would be a more suitable comparison.

I am not asking you what an outside resource does to protect players. That is something the individual player is doing to protect themselve sort of like not risking injuring themselves in bowl games. I am asking, would you, as an AU fan, asking CD to put his future investment on the line, reimburse him for it? It is easy to tell other people what to do with their money. What about you?

[Tiger 8,825]

Anyone else find it funny that those calling Carlton selfish are actually being selfish themselves? At the core it seems like they want their team to be at full strength and not have to face their co-workers talk to them about how Auburn lost to UCF by the watercooler the next day at the office.
 

Seriously, those who are against Carlton here are wishing he didn't skip the game so it would've helped us win while he's out here making real life decisions. Some really need to get some perspective on this IMO

 

Had we won this game, this thread would've been 5 pages but since we caught an ugly L it's 10 pages and people are more frosty about the fact that he didn't play.

[Tiger Refuge 6,663]

I’m not gonna get mad at someone who essentially aced a 3 year course and decided to skip the final.

 

[Tiger 8,825]

3 minutes ago, Tiger Refuge said:

I’m not gonna get mad at someone who essentially aced a 3 year course and decided to skip the final.

 

Out of likes but...

 

yes.

[abw0004 10,113]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

One more time . The body work is not done . It hurts you to sit out a whole year vs help your projection . That is why someone like Clowney , who honestly could’ve left after his sophomore year , still played . Same with LF. Not just from an injury standpoint , but also from a perception standpoint . I don’t see a player ever doing something like that. Now you can argue “how hard they played in every game?” But to sit out a whole damn year? Come on man.

Would TB in COLLEGE? Maybe, but guess what? He wasn’t no 1st rounder coming out of college so I would probably tell TB, if you can go, you need to go to get drafted. I doubt Bill Belichick would’ve let him play the last game of this season though.

Lawson tore his ACL during spring practice as an underclass man. How is that anywhere close to the potential of CD tearing something in bowl practice . Last time I checked, CD participated in spring practice , participated in fall practice , participated in every regular season practice and participated in every game this regular season. He did not participate in bowl practice for various reasons. If CL got hurt doing that, this would be a more suitable comparison.

I am not asking you what an outside resource does to protect players. That is something the individual player is doing to protect themselve sort of like ,  not risking hurting themselves in bowl games. I am asking would you, as an AU fan, asking CD to put his future investment on the line, reimburse him for it? It is easy to tell other people what to do with their money. What about you?

I will only address a few parts as to be honest, the whole topic around Davis skipping a game isn't that important to me.  It happened, so I have moved on.  I still support him like crazy, and will watch his combine if/when he gets invited.  To me, this is really a political issue where there is no clear cut answer, just two vastly different opinions.  So I will respect it as such.

Sitting out a whole year may be a reality now.  Remember how Fournette was considering not playing 2016 to preserve his stock as many said "he can't go much higher." 

My guess is Tom would have played, even if he were a 1st rounder because he is a flat out gamer and wants to win.  My opinion is I just can't see him sitting out, which is why he wants to keep playing despite his age.

I was just using an example of Carl Lawson that injuries just happen.  I don't think an extra game would really put him at a greater risk of injury than the last 35 games he played for us.

The players are not the ones who purchase the policies.  It is the coaches and teams.  They usually do it as part of a deal for a junior to return.

Again, this subject is just too political where neither side may agree, and that is okay.  I am okay with the outcome of Davis not playing.  It may be a different story if say, Stidham sits out, but I just have more important issues to think out.  I do respect your option and stance.

[DAG 33,982]

1 minute ago, abw0004 said:

I will only address a few parts as to be honest, the whole topic around Davis skipping a game isn't that important to me.  It happened, so I have moved on.  I still support him like crazy, and will watch his combine if/when he gets invited.  To me, this is really a political issue where there is no clear cut answer, just two vastly different opinions.  So I will respect it as such.

Sitting out a whole year may be a reality now.  Remember how Fournette was considering not playing 2016 to preserve his stock as many said "he can't go much higher." 

My guess is Tom would have played, even if he were a 1st rounder because he is a flat out gamer and wants to win.  My opinion is I just can't see him sitting out, which is why he wants to keep playing despite his age.

I was just using an example of Carl Lawson that injuries just happen.  I don't think an extra game would really put him at a greater risk of injury than the last 35 games he played for us.

The players are not the ones who purchase the policies.  It is the coaches and teams.  They usually do it as part of a deal for a junior to return.

Again, this subject is just too political where neither side may agree, and that is okay.  I am okay with the outcome of Davis not playing.  It may be a different story if say, Stidham sits out, but I just have more important issues to think out.  I do respect your option and stance.

Fair enough . I respect your opinion . I also like how you addressed the opposite side’s question and at the very least you do feel both the coaches and players need to be held responsible . WDE

[CCslim 56]

I don’t care, that bowl game was meaningless the university will get paid either way

snd why risk millions for those reason 

[LKEEL75 2,566]

I said early on in this thread that I am not a fan of this decision and I still am not.  It is my opinion that he should not have left his friends\brothers out there without him.  I understand the financial decision and I don't know what I would do if I was in his shoes.  Loyalty is a big thing to me and I would do most anything to help my friends.  Not playing seems like you are bailing on the kids & coaches who helped you get to where you are.  Again, I don't blame him at all.  It is his decision.  I just don't think I would have made the same choice in that situation.

I do wonder where does it stop.  Everyone knows that the NFL is a business even more so than college.  So let's say you are in your last year of your first contract.  The team you are playing with has had a bad year, but you have done really good and are expecting a big contract extension during the off-season.  When it comes down to the last game or more, then why play?  I mean, you have proven yourself worthy of playing in the NFL.  The last couple of games are nothing more than fillers because they mean nothing to you.  You know you are getting your extension because you have done so good, but if you were to get hurt in one of those games, that extension would be out the window.  So why play?  This same thing is happening now in the NBA.  Star players are sitting out more and more games each year to "rest".  Everybody gets in an uproar about it because they are paying good money to go see this team and these stars yet they are "resting".  

Again, I understand his decision based on money.  But at what point does this stop?  Athletes have been entertaining us for many years in many sports.  In all those years we have been taught that you put your team first and do all you can to work with the guys next to you.  This just goes completely against that thought process and goes against what I have been taught.

I wish CD all the best and will pull for him in his future role (as long as he doesn't go to Broncos).  I have no ill feelings toward him because truthfully him not playing did not cost us that game.  And if it had then it still wouldn't have mattered because the coaches should have had someone better prepared to take his spot. 

 

Best of luck to CD thank you for all you have done for Auburn!!!!  WDE!!!!

[Barnacle 9,064]

My only question for those that believe there need to be repercussions from the school, reparations, etc. What do you propose? Because, this slippery slope argument keeps being made for hypothetical situations that supposedly need to be prevented through some sort of policy. I mentioned this earlier, but it's the NFL, its owners, general managers and coaches who will influence these types of decisions, and not the schools. 

If players start sitting out of meaningful games, i.e. regular season games, the iron bowl, the SECCG, playoffs etc. then paying the school back for a scholarship should be the least of a player's concerns. Those decisions would most definitely affect draft stock. Sit out of a championship game to avoid injury? See what happens to your draft stock. Sit out of a regular season game? Get benched, then see what happens to your draft stock. Sit out of the iron bowl? See a pattern here?

Does it show selfishness? Absolutely, but is it a predictor of how the player will perform in the NFL? They sure don't think so. If and when it goes too far, you can reassess. My guess is you won't see it go that far. With the playoff system developing as it has, and we gently progress toward super-conferences, we may see bowl games turn into true exhibition games that red-shirt freshman can play in, as suggested earlier in the thread. At that point, I don't know if anyone will care. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

3 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

My only question for those that believe there need to be repercussions from the school, reparations, etc. What do you propose? Because, this slippery slope argument keeps being made for hypothetical situations that supposedly need to be prevented through some sort of policy. I mentioned this earlier, but its the NFL, its owners, general managers and coaches who will influence these types of decisions, and not the schools. 

If players start sitting out of meaningful games, i.e. regular season games, the iron bowl, the SECCG, playoffs etc. then paying the school back for a scholarship should be the least of a player's concern. Those decisions would most definitely affect draft stock. Sit out of a championship game to avoid injury? See what happens to your draft stock. Sit out of a regular season game? Get benched, then see what happens to your draft stock. Sit out of the iron bowl? See a pattern here?

Does it show selfishness? Absolutely, but is it a predictor of how the player will perform in the NFL? They sure don't think so. If and when it goes too far, you can reassess. My guess is you won't see it go that far. And, with the playoff system developing as it has, and with progress toward super-conferences, my guess is that in the near future we will see bowl games turn into true exhibition games that red-shirt freshman can play in, as suggested earlier in the thread. At that point, I don't know if anyone will care. 

Just have to chime in here, because I feel like this tack of the discussion came from my hypothetical. For the record, all I'm stating, and it is a blanket statement, is that we need to teach college students about the importance of honoring contracts (written and verbal). Softening the real world for college students is a big issue for me, since my wife works in that environment and watches students graduate fully prepared to tackle a career but totally unprepared to tackle life because there were little to no consequences for their actions in the protective bubble of the college (In her case, it's a small, underfunded school and all mommy or daddy have to do is say the word "lawyer" and they cave on any punishments).  It's even worse for student athletes who are often even above the law.

My only beef with Davis is that he stuck to, and allowed Gus to say it was because of illness. If you are going to make the call to sit out to protect your draft stock, be a man and say it outright.

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

If I'm going to be loudmouth angry guy, I can at least be courteous about it

and thank you for that

[McLoofus 35,182]

10 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

My only question for those that believe there need to be repercussions from the school, reparations, etc. What do you propose? Because, this slippery slope argument keeps being made for hypothetical situations that supposedly need to be prevented through some sort of policy. I mentioned this earlier, but it's the NFL, its owners, general managers and coaches who will influence these types of decisions, and not the schools. 

If players start sitting out of meaningful games, i.e. regular season games, the iron bowl, the SECCG, playoffs etc. then paying the school back for a scholarship should be the least of a player's concerns. Those decisions would most definitely affect draft stock. Sit out of a championship game to avoid injury? See what happens to your draft stock. Sit out of a regular season game? Get benched, then see what happens to your draft stock. Sit out of the iron bowl? See a pattern here?

Does it show selfishness? Absolutely, but is it a predictor of how the player will perform in the NFL? They sure don't think so. If and when it goes too far, you can reassess. My guess is you won't see it go that far. With the playoff system developing as it has, and we gently progress toward super-conferences, we may see bowl games turn into true exhibition games that red-shirt freshman can play in, as suggested earlier in the thread. At that point, I don't know if anyone will care. 

Like, love, thank you. 

 

[Barnacle 9,064]

1 minute ago, lionheartkc said:

My only beef with Davis is that he stuck to, and allowed Gus to say it was because of illness. If you are going to make the call to sit out to protect your draft stock, be a man and say it outright.

I'm in agreement that if he truly wasn't sick, then he shouldn't use it as an excuse. 

Any contract issues will turn on the language in the contract, so I can't say whether he violated a contract or not. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

My only beef with Davis is that he stuck to, and allowed Gus to say it was because of illness. If you are going to make the call to sit out to protect your draft stock, be a man and say it outright.

I'll keep saying it: he was cleared to play, but that doesn't mean he was 100%. I highly doubt that the illness thing was just made up out of thin air, especially since so many others on the team were sick. Yes, a lot of them played, and again, fat lot of good that did anybody in some cases. 

After these last two seasons, it's actually a little shocking that Auburn fans are in such a hurry to have compromised players on the field. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

24 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

My only question for those that believe there need to be repercussions from the school, reparations, etc. What do you propose? Because, this slippery slope argument keeps being made for hypothetical situations that supposedly need to be prevented through some sort of policy. I mentioned this earlier, but it's the NFL, its owners, general managers and coaches who will influence these types of decisions, and not the schools. 

If players start sitting out of meaningful games, i.e. regular season games, the iron bowl, the SECCG, playoffs etc. then paying the school back for a scholarship should be the least of a player's concerns. Those decisions would most definitely affect draft stock. Sit out of a championship game to avoid injury? See what happens to your draft stock. Sit out of a regular season game? Get benched, then see what happens to your draft stock. Sit out of the iron bowl? See a pattern here?

Ten years ago we may not have imagined ever having this convo. The nuts and bolts of your argument depends on the nonexistence of the normalization of players sitting out regular season games in preparation for the draft. There was brief speculation that Jadaveon was going to skip his junior year and prepare for the draft as a matter of fact. He could’ve been tbe guinea pig. If he did so and he was still picked number one, that would’ve told other players that the water was clear so to speak. Last year, Fournette and McCaffery really shook the CFB world and we don’t even know where it is going to take us. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Just have to chime in here, because I feel like this tack of the discussion came from my hypothetical. For the record, all I'm stating, and it is a blanket statement, is that we need to teach college students about the importance of honoring contracts (written and verbal).

 

3 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Any contract issues will turn on the language in the contract, so I can't say whether he violated a contract or not. 

Yeah, I don't think we ever circled back to that. Lion, what exactly is the legal obligation of a student athlete when they accept a scholarship? 

[AUsince72 11,084]

20 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

My only question for those that believe there need to be repercussions from the school, reparations, etc. What do you propose? Because, this slippery slope argument keeps being made for hypothetical situations that supposedly need to be prevented through some sort of policy. I mentioned this earlier, but it's the NFL, its owners, general managers and coaches who will influence these types of decisions, and not the schools. 

If players start sitting out of meaningful games, i.e. regular season games, the iron bowl, the SECCG, playoffs etc. then paying the school back for a scholarship should be the least of a player's concerns. Those decisions would most definitely affect draft stock. Sit out of a championship game to avoid injury? See what happens to your draft stock. Sit out of a regular season game? Get benched, then see what happens to your draft stock. Sit out of the iron bowl? See a pattern here?

Does it show selfishness? Absolutely, but is it a predictor of how the player will perform in the NFL? They sure don't think so. If and when it goes too far, you can reassess. My guess is you won't see it go that far. With the playoff system developing as it has, and we gently progress toward super-conferences, we may see bowl games turn into true exhibition games that red-shirt freshman can play in, as suggested earlier in the thread. At that point, I don't know if anyone will care. 

I actually counted 7 questions. Just saying...

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

I actually counted 7 questions. Just saying...

I ride with @Barnacle but that's funny right there. (Out of reactions.)

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I'll keep saying it: he was cleared to play, but that doesn't mean he was 100%. I highly doubt that the illness thing was just made up out of thin air, especially since so many others on the team were sick. Yes, a lot of them played, and again, fat lot of good that did anybody in some cases. 

After these last two seasons, it's actually a little shocking that Auburn fans are in such a hurry to have compromised players on the field. 

I have no doubt he was sick earlier in the week and likely not 100% on game day, but he still let the "went home because he was sick" story carry, when he had made the choice, and told other players he made the choice, not to play. I still say you man up and put it out there if you make that choice. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Yeah, I don't think we ever circled back to that. Lion, what exactly is the legal obligation of a student athlete when they accept a scholarship? 

It depends on the school... there aren't blanket documents that every school uses. I don't have time to go through it, but here's a sample.
https://www.athleticscholarships.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Example-Athletic-Aid-Agreement.pdf